Defining "Vanilla"

[Keroin]

Sorry for the snippage, but I consider the bolded bit to be things I am not open to discussing [as a "non-vanilla" woman] because A) it's not really anyone else's business and B) I consider it unladylike to casually discuss the graphic details of one's sex life. (Before anyone asks, I consider it ungentlemanly to do so, as well... I'm an equal opportunity prude like that. )

Besides which, I'm a "kinky" woman who doesn't do whippings or punishment dynamics, doesn't believe in collars, and generally yawns at bondage. There I go being all "vanilla-y"...



I would disagree that this passion to separate oneself is born of prejudicial experiences; I suspect it's more of an "OMG lookie at my SPECIALNESS!" thing. A grouping exercise. Lord knows human beings can't stand to survive without cliques. LOL



But see that's my thing; my confusion. What exactly is the HUGE difference? As I mentioned, 98% of the things on your list up top are not a part of my sex life, nor my relationships. I defer to my lover, I offer my talents to be used as he sees fit, I don't make the final decisions, I exist for his pleasure... which (depending on which way you tilt your head), is either the groundwork for something deliciously twisted, or a textbook definition of a good wife.

I agree. I can't exactly hide the gender transition of my partner or the parts I have with someone when I'm walking down the street with them, but I sure the fuck can resist the urge to put them on a leash when running out to Target for more paper towels. If I can't , it's on me. Not on the world.

BDSM is not equivalent to teh gay, not by a long shot. I've never heard a gay BDSM person agree that it was, not once. "Having to hide who you are fundamentally" is something adults have to do in the public sphere to some degree or M would be running round naked and I'd be kicking right wing whiners like this dude at the bar last night in the shins.

Yuppers.

I don't discus my bedroom antics or my sexual leanings with the general public, I hardly even discuss them here. No one's business but mine, (and L's, naturally).

 

[Cattypuss]

I need to find more recipes for cardamom. Bought a humongous jar of it for one recipe and haven't seen a need for it since. Suggestions?

Search the web for Madhur Jaffrey recipes. Her carrot halva uses loads of cardamom and is to die for. Also her seviyan pudding. And in savoury dishes it goes v v v well with chicken.

 

[Cattypuss]

Here ya go - here's her seviyan pudding. Slurp.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/vermicellipudding_5143

 

[Stella_Omega]

Search the web for Madhur Jaffrey recipes. Her carrot halva uses loads of cardamom and is to die for. Also her seviyan pudding. And in savoury dishes it goes v v v well with chicken.

My very first Indian cookbook was Madhur Jaffrey. I quickly learned to double the quantities of all the spices... I still use the fuck out of that book though!

... Although eight Cardamom pods is pretty generous!

 

[BiBunny]

It's all well and good to say it's nobody's business but yours, but that's kinda hard when you're dating 3 people at once. I realize poly isn't "kinky" in and of itself, but the majority of people don't see it that way. So I either get to always be the "single" person with all the bullshit that goes along with it, or I get to be out and weird. I've been struggling with this a long time.

It's not always as easy as "it's none of their business."

 

[Keroin]

It's not always as easy as "it's none of their business."

When it's only BDSM, it is. As mentioned, when it's poly or GLBT, it isn't.

 

[BiBunny]

When it's only BDSM, it is. As mentioned, when it's poly or GLBT, it isn't.

Right, but how many people do you know outside of BDSM and vanilla poly who wouldn't think poly is "kinky"?

 

[teknight]

It's all well and good to say it's nobody's business but yours, but that's kinda hard when you're dating 3 people at once. I realize poly isn't "kinky" in and of itself, but the majority of people don't see it that way. So I either get to always be the "single" person with all the bullshit that goes along with it, or I get to be out and weird. I've been struggling with this a long time.

It's not always as easy as "it's none of their business."

Oh, pshaw- you know a bunch of the "judges" are just straight up jealous....that they have to keep their mistresses hidden.

 

[4bidnfruit]

Never mind~ doesn't matter

 

[Keroin]

Right, but how many people do you know outside of BDSM and vanilla poly who wouldn't think poly is "kinky"?

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you at all. Of course the overwhelming majority are going to see poly as kinky. No question.

But the OP wasn't about poly, it was about BDSM. I'm not sure what your point is BB?

Do poly and GBLT folks have a struggle in that who they are is not something that can easily blend in with the mainstream? Absolutely. There's no comparison, at all between my hetero, single-partner BDSM, which no one need ever be aware of unless I make them aware of it, and your relationship with multiple partners that can't exist in any non-kink setting without possibly raising questions. None at all.

 

[midwestyankee]

Smash a few grains with the handle of a knife, and drop them into the coffee grinds when you make coffee. I especially love this in espresso...

add a little bit to any recipe that calls for cinnamon, the two together are heavenly!
A flavour which, it has been noted, is lush and irresistable.

Search the web for Madhur Jaffrey recipes. Her carrot halva uses loads of cardamom and is to die for. Also her seviyan pudding. And in savoury dishes it goes v v v well with chicken.

Here ya go - here's her seviyan pudding. Slurp.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/vermicellipudding_5143

My very first Indian cookbook was Madhur Jaffrey. I quickly learned to double the quantities of all the spices... I still use the fuck out of that book though!

... Although eight Cardamom pods is pretty generous!

Thank you both for your generous responses to what was, originally, just a bit of snark. What we have is ground cardamom but I'm sure it will be easy enough to put it to use as directed. I checked out Madhur Jaffrey and have marked her page at the BBC site for future reference.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled confusion and elucidation.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you at all. Of course the overwhelming majority are going to see poly as kinky. No question.

But the OP wasn't about poly, it was about BDSM. I'm not sure what your point is BB?

Do poly and GBLT folks have a struggle in that who they are is not something that can easily blend in with the mainstream? Absolutely. There's no comparison, at all between my hetero, single-partner BDSM, which no one need ever be aware of unless I make them aware of it, and your relationship with multiple partners that can't exist in any non-kink setting without possibly raising questions. None at all.

Never mind.

 

[JMohegan]

I see a lot of conversations at Fetlife about "OMG I could never go back to vanilla!" or "Would you date a vanilla?" or "I'm struggling so much maintaining my submissiveness when I have to be vanilla [at work/school/the grocery store/etc]..." and to be honest it just confuses the hell out of me.

I don't get the division of it all. When people talk about being submissive, but they have to do XYZ (you know... function as a person in society... with a job/family/etc) and what a struggle it is to reconcile those two worlds [vanilla/BDSM], it's like speaking Martian to me.

What is this "vanilla" stuff and why is it such a problem?

A lot of that may stem from the romanticization of the poor, helpless s-type that seems so prevalent online.

The truth is that if you're an adult who is incapable of holding down a basic job, or making productive trips to the DMV or grocery store unaccompanied, that doesn't make you submissive. That makes you dysfunctional. It's not evidence of sexual wiring; it's evidence of something going awry developmentally.

Think about this on the flip side. If you're an adult who is incapable of deferring respectfully to a boss, police officer, or other authority figure when necessary, that doesn't make you Dominant. That makes you dysfunctional. It's not evidence of sexual wiring; it's evidence of something going awry developmentally.

Fetlife might well be full of crowing, but it is true that the vanilla world is not ordinarily open to women discussing, openly, their nightly whippings, punishments, non-removable collars, being owned, tied up and fucked till you can't see straight... the list goes on. In the nilla world, these things are, by and large, unacceptable behavior, and in my opinion, if you're on Fetlife and you express an anti-vanilla attitude, you've probably been up against some prejudice on the part of someone who told you how weird you were at one point, or maybe even called the cops. So yes, there's a HUGE difference between being straight and vanilla and being kinky and more into something like Fetlife. And the difference has REAL consequences, and i will not willingly go back to being a vanilla ever again.

If you are incapable of attending a dinner party, taking a walk, touring a museum, hanging out by the water cooler, etc., without discussing the salacious details of your sexual escapades or providing overt evidence of your power dynamic, that makes you ill-mannered.

Just as it would be ill-mannered for mainstream folks to discuss details of their sexual escapades, or personal power dynamics, in public.

 

[Keroin]

If you are incapable of attending a dinner party, taking a walk, touring a museum, hanging out by the water cooler, etc., without discussing the salacious details of your sexual escapades or providing overt evidence of your power dynamic, that makes you ill-mannered.

Yes. Very well put.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

no you didn't. you should be flogged til you learn to be more articulate. or something.

But... But... But... Rate of flogging is inversely proportional to articulation and coherency!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

But... But... But... Rate of flogging is inversely proportional to articulation and coherency!

Well I wouldn't know, but perhaps there's a point where it becomes circular and you suddenly speak with perfection, much like an overly paid lawyer?

 

[Stella_Omega]

A lot of that may stem from the romanticization of the poor, helpless s-type that seems so prevalent online.

The truth is that if you're an adult who is incapable of holding down a basic job, or making productive trips to the DMV or grocery store unaccompanied, that doesn't make you submissive. That makes you dysfunctional. It's not evidence of sexual wiring; it's evidence of something going awry developmentally.

Think about this on the flip side. If you're an adult who is incapable of deferring respectfully to a boss, police officer, or other authority figure when necessary, that doesn't make you Dominant. That makes you dysfunctional. It's not evidence of sexual wiring; it's evidence of something going awry developmentally.

THANK YOU!

 

[where]

A lot of that may stem from the romanticization of the poor, helpless s-type that seems so prevalent online.

The truth is that if you're an adult who is incapable of holding down a basic job, or making productive trips to the DMV or grocery store unaccompanied, that doesn't make you submissive. That makes you dysfunctional. It's not evidence of sexual wiring; it's evidence of something going awry developmentally.

Think about this on the flip side. If you're an adult who is incapable of deferring respectfully to a boss, police officer, or other authority figure when necessary, that doesn't make you Dominant. That makes you dysfunctional. It's not evidence of sexual wiring; it's evidence of something going awry developmentally.

If you are incapable of attending a dinner party, taking a walk, touring a museum, hanging out by the water cooler, etc., without discussing the salacious details of your sexual escapades or providing overt evidence of your power dynamic, that makes you ill-mannered.

Just as it would be ill-mannered for mainstream folks to discuss details of their sexual escapades, or personal power dynamics, in public.

heh, reading stuff like this makes me want to have your babies.

 

[callinectes2]

JM is such a thread killer, he summed it all in one post.

 

[Saltwatertaffy]

CutieMouse, i think if you won't talk about your intimate private details (i don't either, generally, although at times recently I've been much more forthcoming, since I'm loosening up in old age... perhaps in both good and bad ways...insert bemused face) then there's no way for me to know if what you do would be considered kinky by the outside world at all, therefore making what you do or don't do, fall or not fall into automatically vanilla-labeled categories. I also do not know and do not care what you, or anyone else, does that you consider interesting or boring... it's none of my business, and i didn't ask, and won't be asking in the future... )

I do think, however, that FetLife, just like any forum or indeed most of life, is filled with people who have a desire to be different and special and most of all, RIGHT.

But until one starts to define for one's self what the terminology means to you, you will be confused. It isn't going to matter what these things mean to me or anyone else. Only you know or care what it means to you, and that's as it should be, just so long as you actually do define them for yourself to your own satisfaction, which you might, or you might not.

Again, I don't feel any need to know the outcome of this inner conversation you might have with yourself. I do think that a general unwillingness to discuss one's sex life is probably associated more with vanilla-type behaviors, as vanilla is defined by those who think about the differences between these terms, which is not everybody, god knows.

What i would like to know is why i'm having so much trouble uploading a picture to my profile, though. This is proving to be annoyingly difficult...!!

 

[where]

you need 100 posts for an av.

 

[Keroin]

I do think that a general unwillingness to discuss one's sex life is probably associated more with vanilla-type behaviors, as vanilla is defined by those who think about the differences between these terms, which is not everybody, god knows.

No and...no.

Unwillingness to discuss one's sex life does not equal vanilla/mainstream. In CM's case, I would guess that the unwillingness comes from the distinct sense that one's sex life is no one else's business.

There are many people on this forum who I enjoy talking to. There are none with whom I share the intimate details of what happens in my bedroom - whether that involves BDSM (as it most often does) or not.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No and...no.

Unwillingness to discuss one's sex life does not equal vanilla/mainstream. In CM's case, I would guess that the unwillingness comes from the distinct sense that one's sex life is no one else's business.

There are many people on this forum who I enjoy talking to. There are none with whom I share the intimate details of what happens in my bedroom - whether that involves BDSM (as it most often does) or not.

No matter how often, or how subtly, one tries to coax her.

Because damn.

 

[midwestyankee]

CutieMouse, i think if you won't talk about your intimate private details (i don't either, generally, although at times recently I've been much more forthcoming, since I'm loosening up in old age... perhaps in both good and bad ways...insert bemused face) then there's no way for me to know if what you do would be considered kinky by the outside world at all, therefore making what you do or don't do, fall or not fall into automatically vanilla-labeled categories. I also do not know and do not care what you, or anyone else, does that you consider interesting or boring... it's none of my business, and i didn't ask, and won't be asking in the future... )

I do think, however, that FetLife, just like any forum or indeed most of life, is filled with people who have a desire to be different and special and most of all, RIGHT.

But until one starts to define for one's self what the terminology means to you, you will be confused. It isn't going to matter what these things mean to me or anyone else. Only you know or care what it means to you, and that's as it should be, just so long as you actually do define them for yourself to your own satisfaction, which you might, or you might not.

Again, I don't feel any need to know the outcome of this inner conversation you might have with yourself. I do think that a general unwillingness to discuss one's sex life is probably associated more with vanilla-type behaviors, as vanilla is defined by those who think about the differences between these terms, which is not everybody, god knows.

What i would like to know is why i'm having so much trouble uploading a picture to my profile, though. This is proving to be annoyingly difficult...!!

As we have well established in this thread, while what we call ourselves is more or less unimportant to others, the way we use terms to hold a discussion that will be mutually enlightening does rely on a general acceptance of terminology. It would be foolish of me to use the verb "flog", for example, to describe hitting someone with a paddle. Any discussion on that basis would lead to confusion.

I doubt very much that one could say that "a general unwillingness to discuss one's sex life" is a marker for being in the "vanilla" camp. I would say that it's much more reliably a marker for someone who prefers to keep his or her private life private. Funny how that works.

Is Fetlife "filled with people who have a desire to be different and special and most of all, RIGHT" or is it filled with people who like to commune with other kinky folk for a variety of reasons? At best, the jury is about to order lunch before deciding that one.

You seem to have a decent turn of mind. Perhaps a short visit to the forum FAQ would be in order should you have any other fundamental questions about how things work around here.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled session of determining what we all mean by "vanilla." I suggest a field trip to Keroin's "Vice Cream" for the class.

 

[midwestyankee]

No matter how often, or how subtly, one tries to coax her.

Because damn.

As any good writer, she gives away only hints. The closest I've come yet is the phrase "the butler did it" written in lemon juice on a piece of parchment that washed up on a beach in San Diego recently in an olive jar postmarked "The Rock."