The Authors' Hangout 2010 Halloween Contest Support Thread

[manyeyedhydra]

While I certainly offer my congratulations to the winners, I personally would've liked to know that changes to entries at any point after submission to the contest were acceptable. I had a few little blips in my story that I would've liked to edit and didn't, thinking I had to wait until after judging was complete. That said, I also would like to know how judging was accomplished. No offense to the winners, but "Dark Miracle" is still rating higher than several of the winners, and has all along throughout the contest. I can only surmise that other factors (perhaps total number of votes? number of views?) are taken into consideration.

If Literotica published their judging method in detail, it would put the silly arguments on forum boards like these to rest for good, and a decent amount of the angst involved in the contests could be avoided. We could all simply do what we do best: write. I don't understand what harm it could do to tell the patrons of the site how our own contest winners are actually determined.

But then, I have a disturbing tendency towards fairness in nearly everything...

Well done to the winners - a blessed Samhain and Happy Halloween to all!

- Wicked

Looks like you just missed out on the top 3. Tx's 3rd place story had the same score as yours (4.78) a couple of days back. Comparing the scores after the winners are announced is meaningless as there are, sadly, far too many jealous types that see the winning entry and go "How did this win, it's nowhere near as good as my entry - 1 bomb!"

Others have already said why Literotica can't put up the details on how the winners are determined. It would change a largely meaningless internet vote with an opaque scoring system that still spits out decent quality stories as winners into a completely meaningless internet vote with a transparent scoring system that spits out crap written by who best figured out how to fiddle the system as winners.

It really isn't worth taking these competitions too seriously. They bring extra readers and the good writers get a book voucher from time to time.

 

[sr71plt]

Maybe you should have offered T-shirts and free books and gone around to other discussion boards and begged people to come here and vote for you.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Maybe you should have offered T-shirts and free books and gone around to other discussion boards and begged people to come here and vote for you.

Ouch...

I'm not going to knock it. My own stellar attempts at self-promotion have resulted in 0 reviews and maybe selling 2 copies of my book on Amazon.

I need to get with the T-shirt and free book program

 

[Laurel]

Don't worry. Several other authors submitted story edits of contest stories during this Halloween contest – just as authors have done in nearly every special contest. Authors routinely submit edits of their regular stories during the month in which they are eligible for monthly contests.

Edited to add: Because many authors do regularly edit their stories during contests, I didn’t realize that some didn't know it was possible. So everyone knows for future reference – authors can edit their stories during special contests, just like they can during the monthly contests and any other contests. Hope this clarifies things for those who didn’t know! s

No one told me to change to story. I've kind of ignored you until now, but I guess your mission is to rile us all enough to respond. So I guess you've succeeded.

The ending was changed because I had a lot of comments that the original story just wasn't right. It changed about five days before the end of the contest, and basically I just lost votes from that point on.

I'm sure TX will flame you anyway. As for me, I'll just continue to ignore you from here on out...

PS: If I've upset you then obviously I'm doing something right!

 

[oggbashan]

Any claimants for the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Contest for Halloween 2010?

My two ended as:

Repeat Ad Lib 4.25, 96 votes
The Nunnery 4.35, 89 votes.

Thank you to all those who voted and left PCs.

Og

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Laurel,

Thanks for letting us know

 

[YoursSINSerely]

Don't worry. Several other authors submitted story edits of contest stories during this Halloween contest – just as authors have done in nearly every special contest. Authors routinely submit edits of their regular stories during the month in which they are eligible for monthly contests.

Edited to add: Because many authors do regularly edit their stories during contests, I didn’t realize that some didn't know it was possible. So everyone knows for future reference – authors can edit their stories during special contests, just like they can during the monthly contests and any other contests. Hope this clarifies things for those who didn’t know! s

But, but, but . . . there's a difference in correcting a typographical error or fixing a name here or there (something that I've done in the middle of a contest), and changing the story line so your critics will be happier. Public Comments and Feedback are to let the author know what they can do better on their next story, not the one that's entered in the contest.

I'll compare this to a beauty contest where the contestant goes out and has a boobjob done in the middle of the competition because the judges are already ignoring her pretty face.

Do you think there should be a box on the edit page to explain what the update was and let the editors decide whether it will still qualify for the existing competition?

I'm not trying to beat this horse to death, but I think an enhancement was done to make this a better story, thereby giving the author an unfair advantage. We all listen to our critics and we try to improve, but on the next story.

I'm still congratulating all of the winners and respect your decision to choose them. I just want the contests to be fair for everyone and maybe you can think about making a few changes in the rules. ~Babs~

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Babs, is there a "like" button for comments? No? I'll make my own. *Like*

But, I am glad to know I can go in and fix a typo, without suffering consequences.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

Any claimants for the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Contest for Halloween 2010?

My two ended as:

Repeat Ad Lib 4.25, 96 votes
The Nunnery 4.35, 89 votes.

Thank you to all those who voted and left PCs.

Og

Plate of Fear, 4.25, 55 votes.

 

[YoursSINSerely]

Babs, is there a "like" button for comments? No? I'll make my own. *Like*

But, I am glad to know I can go in and fix a typo, without suffering consequences.

Thanks! It's a done deal at this point, but there's always room for improvement. Right? We aren't alone in our thinking this way. We (me) can't keep my mouth shut when I see something that can be done a better way.

 

[TxRad]

But, but, but . . . there's a difference in correcting a typographical error or fixing a name here or there (something that I've done in the middle of a contest), and changing the story line so your critics will be happier. Public Comments and Feedback are to let the author know what they can do better on their next story, not the one that's entered in the contest.

I'll compare this to a beauty contest where the contestant goes out and has a boobjob done in the middle of the competition because the judges are already ignoring her pretty face.

Do you think there should be a box on the edit page to explain what the update was and let the editors decide whether it will still qualify for the existing competition?

I'm not trying to beat this horse to death, but I think an enhancement was done to make this a better story, thereby giving the author an unfair advantage. We all listen to our critics and we try to improve, but on the next story.

I'm still congratulating all of the winners and respect your decision to choose them. I just want the contests to be fair for everyone and maybe you can think about making a few changes in the rules. ~Babs~

I wonder how many of the stories are posted at other websites before they are posted to this contest. Information gathered there is used to make the story better before it is posted to this contest. Different methods of doing the same thing. Neither of which are cheating under the existing rules.

Someone asked why scouries was slapped for mentioning this. He wasn't slapped for anything but his own continuing stupidity. It's not cheating if there is not a rule against it. His point had nothing to do with who won the contest or how but harped on the fact that he perceived cheating.

 

[glynndah]

Any claimants for the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Contest for Halloween 2010?

My two ended as:

Repeat Ad Lib 4.25, 96 votes
The Nunnery 4.35, 89 votes.

Thank you to all those who voted and left PCs.

Og

Finding the Perfect Costume: 3.77, 30 votes

 

[oggbashan]

I think one of the major advantages of Literotica is the control you have over your posted stories.

You can correct typos, correct errors, amend plot mistakes and rewrite if you think you need to. You can take account of criticism.

To win a Literotica contest, a story has to be popular. If the original, unamended story hadn't already been popular, the votes for the original would have significantly affected the votes for the revised version.

What happened was allowable within the rules of Literotica and the story became better as a result. Whether the rules are fully understood by everyone? That's a different question.

If you go to the themed contest schedule in the last post in the sticky Welcome Authors! Please Read, which apparently few of us do, you can follow a link to the contest rules. From the first post you can follow links to the FAQs which explain what we can do, and how.

Reading the conditions ought to be the first thing we do before entering a contest.

If we are seriously thinking about getting published we must read the publisher's conditions about how our work should be presented and submitted. Literotica is publishing our work. We should know and understand its rules.

If we don't know, questions can usually be answered by someone in the Authors' Hangout.

Og

 

[optimizer888]

Finding the Perfect Costume: 3.77, 30 votes

Well, "That Time Of The Month" crept its way up to 3.89 with 82 votes. So I think I hit my goal of not coming in last this time.

Last time around my entry was at 4.27 with only 22 votes. (Of course, in the year since it's gotten ten more votes and is up to 4.47; apparently people who like that sort of thing find it the sort of thing they like.)

 

[scouries]

QUOTE ace Of course it defies common sense. What contest has the judges (which in this case is what the voters/commenters are) in midstream make suggestions on improvements in an entry and then let the contestant, again in midstream, change his/her entry? That's pretty dumb, isn't it?

Sometimes ace has a genius for expressing the obvious!

One doesn’t write hundred page rule books for most contests – instead there is a background of common sense that lies behind any set of rules. This is the second time this “common sense” has been upset in the last three contests (moonman’s being able to enter a story in a contest to be decided by readers votes was the first).

I am glad LAUREL at least took the tie to address the question (my guess she heard from many more than one disgruntled author and so felt she had to answer my charge).​

Don't worry. Several other authors submitted story edits of contest stories during this Halloween contest – just as authors have done in nearly every special contest. Authors routinely submit edits of their regular stories during the month in which they are eligible for monthly contests.

Edited to add: Because many authors do regularly edit their stories during contests, I didn’t realize that some didn't know it was possible. So everyone knows for future reference – authors can edit their stories during special contests, just like they can during the monthly contests and any other contests. Hope this clarifies things for those who didn’t know!

In fact I didn’t know! The thought never crossed my mind. It would have been inconceivable given my understanding of contests.

DON’T WORRY???

The problem that still remains dear lady is that you didn’t address the voting question.

If you allow someone to change their story midstream (the concept still boggles my mind) what do you do with the votes that were cast before the change? Those people voted for a different story – not the one that has replaced it.

According to harding (and no I’d don’t particularity want to pick on him/her but it’s he/her under the microscope) most of the votes received were cast prior to, from what he/she and others claim was a major change, this rewriting of the story.

In other words they voted for another story! Not the one proclaimed WINNER! And these voters, who presumably liked the story as it was (given his high score) were not told the story was changed. Nor were they allowed to change their vote even if they found out about the change in time and didn’t like the revision.

Quite frankly I think you should ban edits during the contest period. However, if you do allow them the least you must do is throw out any votes cast before the editing. I hate to use the words “common sense” in this LITEROTICA contest world but I must…​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[scouries]

I think one of the major advantages of Literotica is the control you have over your posted stories…

…If you go to the themed contest schedule in the last post in the sticky Welcome Authors! Please Read, which apparently few of us do, you can follow a link to the contest rules. From the first post you can follow links to the FAQs which explain what we can do, and how.

Reading the conditions ought to be the first thing we do before entering a contest.

If we are seriously thinking about getting published we must read the publisher's conditions about how our work should be presented and submitted. Literotica is publishing our work. We should know and understand its rules.

If we don't know, questions can usually be answered by someone in the Authors' Hangout.

Og

First off there is no contest rule published that says you can you can change your story midstream. In fact finding any “Special Contest” rules is practically impossible (even following your convoluted chain listed above).

You wrote a lot of words my friend but why did I get the feeling after reading them that they were just made to curry favor?

Since you asked for them and since you appear to be a rules expert Here are a few questions for you Mr. AHer:

1) Are two stories with different endings the same story?

2) Does a readers opinion (his vote) for one ending apply to the story after it has been changed?

3) If a reader doesn’t like the “new” story (or perhaps likes it more) can he change his vote to reflect what he now thinks of the story?

I suspect we all know the answers to these three questions ogg without referring to a rules expert such as yourself.

The truth is you can’t add up votes on two different stories and pretend all the votes were for the same story. And you know it as well as I do...​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[TxRad]

One doesn’t write hundred page rule books for most contests – instead there is a background of common sense that lies behind any set of rules. This is the second time this “common sense” has been upset in the last three contests (moonman’s being able to enter a story in a contest to be decided by readers votes was the first).

Let's make sure and remind all the folks of why Moonman as you call him has voting turned off. He asked to be removed from one of your bullshit made up lists and you told him no way. So he pulled the story in question. namely one of the most popular on the site. Later he put it back up with voting turned off. Now he puts all his stories up with voting turned off, thanks to you.

I am glad LAUREL at least took the tie to address the question (my guess she heard from many more than one disgruntled author and so felt she had to answer my charge).

Sorry but there were no disgruntled authors to answer and as for your charges, no rule was broken because there is no rule to break.

Don't worry. Several other authors submitted story edits of contest stories during this Halloween contest – just as authors have done in nearly every special contest. Authors routinely submit edits of their regular stories during the month in which they are eligible for monthly contests.

Edited to add: Because many authors do regularly edit their stories during contests, I didn’t realize that some didn't know it was possible. So everyone knows for future reference – authors can edit their stories during special contests, just like they can during the monthly contests and any other contests. Hope this clarifies things for those who didn’t know!

In fact I didn’t know! The thought never crossed my mind. It would have been inconceivable given my understanding of contests.

Scouries, your lack of understand of a lot of things is very obvious.

DON’T WORRY???

The problem that still remains dear lady is that you didn’t address the voting question.

If you allow someone to change their story midstream (the concept still boggles my mind) what do you do with the votes that were cast before the change? Those people voted for a different story – not the one that has replaced it.

According to harding (and no I’d don’t particularity want to pick on him/her but it’s he/her under the microscope) most of the votes received were cast prior to, from what he/she and others claim was a major change, this rewriting of the story.

In other words they voted for another story! Not the one proclaimed WINNER! And these voters, who presumably liked the story as it was (given his high score) were not told the story was changed. Nor were they allowed to change their vote even if they found out about the change in time and didn’t like the revision.

An edit does not effect the votes before the edit or after the edit. That's the way the site works and has worked since I've been here anyway. The fact that you don't understand it has nothing to do with it. That is your problem.

Quite frankly I think you should ban edits during the contest period. However, if you do allow them the least you must do is throw out any votes cast before the editing. I hate to use the words “common sense” in this LITEROTICA contest world but I must…

Scouries using the words common sense, now that is droll. Scouries, haven't you figured it out yet. It's not all about you and no one cares what you think.

Now that we have most of the formatting crap out of the way.... You will find my points in red.

 

[TxRad]

First off there is no contest rule published that says you can you can change your story midstream.

The site has always allowed editing on all stories at all times. So why should there be a rule allowing changes in a contest?

If there were going to be a rule it would be against making changes during a contest. There is no such rule. Period. End of discussion.

Anything to disrupt the contests and make it look like all the winners are cheating. That's our scouries. Bring down the contests because he can't win one. The self proclaimed #1 writer on Lit. who gets royalties from the site can't win a contest. he can't even place.

Keep up the bullshit scouries, you are king of it.

 

[scouries]

By the way, here are my final results:

Brother Cucks Brother: Or Does He? Who's the father of Caitlyn's baby?
4.48 735 30042 Loving Wives (English) 10/21/10 approved
Public Comments: 34

For me it turned into a "minor sweep"contest - I don't believe I lost more than 65 votes - a relatively small percentage.

And the score was very satisfactory given the category. Only three "stand alone" (I hate this term) stories scored higher than 4.50 in the LW category during the last thirty days and they were written by two of LITEROTICA'S greatest authors - TryAnything and Harddaysknight. And right behind me are other giants, including ohio, Slirpuff, JustPlainBob, Britease, and Dg Heat. So I'm in pretty good company...

In fact it's an author list that would be wonderful to have as contestants... maybe one day the QUEEN will follow A.I.R.'s lead and allow stories from categories such as this one to win...​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[litfan10]

What an interesting situation.

On the one hand since money, albeit a little amount, is up for grabs there very much is room for someone to exploit things and use feedback as a source to increase odds to win.

Logically, if the story is rewritten to improve it, the end result would be better so the earlier votes would actually be lower than better. Where this doesn't work is if a major revision occurs and something is changed that a reader now doesn't like when before it was liked causing the higher vote.

The purpose of this site is to supply the best quality erotica within a free system. I'm sorry but as a writer I have to acknowledge that revision is a key element to the process of writing. In the end if the contest story is better for the revision then that is the story people should be reading. Whether or not it should be allowed in a contest setting is completely up to those who run the contest utterly and absolutely. And they clearly have spoken here.

I have entered contests which were judged by an individual or select group of individuals, such as writers or editors/publishers. These are so subjective with regards to the outcome - it really is a matter of personal taste. Yet I enter because I write and I want my words out there to be read. It is my choice on whether I enter or not. This is the same thing. It is now clear, if you can accept that revising is very much a part of the contest parameters then write, enter and vote. If you can't accept it, then don't write, enter or vote - it's that simple.

Knowing this factor, I will still enter contests happily. I won't change a story midstream of a contest (that's why I left Summer Mystery in place in fact) but that is my personal choice. Nor will I bitch, complain or point fingers and stomp my feet about things being unfair - this is a specific site with specific rules - accept it or move on.

Again I feel for the writers of the winners as this taints the honour which is wrong. If you look at the three stories, they are very, very well written and the authors have every right to be proud of their work - as should almost every writer that entered this contest.

 

[sr71plt]

Just another example of how screwy the contests are on this site, I guess.

Scouries's second point on whether a contest entry with two separate substantive versions is one story or two is also quite a legitimate question--in the real, adult world.

 

[litfan10]

Just another example of how screwy the contests are on this site, I guess.

Scouries's second point on whether a contest entry with two separate substantive versions is one story or two is also quite a legitimate question--in the real, adult world.

definitely not arguing you with on this point. You are right. There very much is a legitimate question. It really becomes an issue of how substantive it is. Is it really a different story or not. Who determines that? By ease it would be to remove the question - no revisions. But since we can revise at any time, should winners ever be allowed to be revised as then is it still a winner or not?
Hopefully, writers revise to make the work better. In print it is easy as the work is unalterable; here online that is a whole different world - works can always be revised and changed Where does the distinction come in on what is the acceptable point of this. Ultimately that is for Laurel to decide. But once that decision is made we need to abide by it or move on and go elsewhere. And I'm not saying you're not doing this. My problem is Scouries very much has an agenda far beyond fairness.

Pilot. I love your final part - in the real, adult world. Very true, and while I do write in the real, adult world (happily but also with frustrations some times,) ultimately, I am writing in the screwy world of this site as well as by choice and loving every minute of it. It is a choice that I have made. And with this choice comes acceptance of terms as with any publisher. At the point I don't agree with something that is then my responsibility to leave as I don't agree with the terms of the site. It is my problem not theirs. Prior to Laurel's post the terms where debatable to some degree. Now they are not.

My problem is yes, we should bring up an issue when something doesn't seem right - but so many times it turns into insults, personal attacks/agendas and such that it is embarrassing to read and be a part of - it loses a lot of the purpose behind the issue and makes the place look far worse than screwy. And potentially drives away a lot of well meaning writers which is a great loss to this site and readers.

 

[TxRad]

By the way, here are my final results:

Brother Cucks Brother: Or Does He? Who's the father of Caitlyn's baby?
4.48 735 30042 Loving Wives (English) 10/21/10 approved
Public Comments: 34

For me it turned into a "minor sweep"contest - I don't believe I lost more than 65 votes - a relatively small percentage.

And the score was very satisfactory given the category. Only three "stand alone" (I hate this term) stories scored higher than 4.50 in the LW category during the last thirty days and they were written by two of LITEROTICA'S greatest authors

In fact it's an author list that would be wonderful to have as contestants... maybe one day the QUEEN will follow A.I.R.'s lead and allow stories from categories such as this one to win...

So what you are saying is, that you think a story that scored less than 4.5 should beat a story that won with over a 4.7?

You're supposed to be so great with numbers but this is ridiculous.

The readers voted and the highest scoring story won. Get over it.

 

[TxRad]

I post my stories to a lot of sites and guess what, this site is by far the best run of them all. If you think the contests are screwy here, go post at some of the other sites but make sure and take your lead underwear with ya.

 

[YoursSINSerely]

I post my stories to a lot of sites and guess what, this site is by far the best run of them all. If you think the contests are screwy here, go post at some of the other sites but make sure and take your lead underwear with ya.

This might be the best site out there, but why not make it even better? Nobody wants to take the win away from Harding, we're just pointing out the flaws in the system. This ranks up there with all the loopholes in government--not exactly, but you know what I mean.

I also don't think it was fair to start the new voting screens right after the contest started. Remember how many people said they couldn't even vote the first few days? Seems the bugs are gone out of that, but how many votes were lost for the contestants?

Hey, I didn't even enter this one. I just want it to be fair for everyone.