A Master's 'right' to play with others

[Black_Bunny]

I'm curious to know how others view this. Is it an expected part of being a slave? Is it written into a contract? Do some set it as a definite 'no'? If it is practiced, how is it done? How does the pyl feel about it? How is she supposed to feel about it? And on a different tangent, what about introducing a third female when the pyl is not bi-curious?

My PYL and I are still sorting out how far our BDSM relationship is going to go (we were vanilla boyfriend and girlfriend first). I've told him I wanted a 24/7 D/s relationship, and may consider slavery in the future but not at this stage. I'm not one to feel pressured into doing anything I don't want to do, which is why I'm keen to set my limits now and then say "go for it". I'm sure things will change as the relationship progresses, so I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of, what will I allow now? Will I want to change that limit later?

I should maybe mention here that I'm divorced, and therefore not sure if I still believe in monogamy. If I was truly owned by someone, and knew for a certainty that he would come home to me and I was the only constant girl in his life, and that it was making him happy, maybe I could be ok with it...? Maybe it's a matter of, you're not a slave so you have your choice if it happens or not, or you are a slave so deal with it?

Please... I don't want to hear anything about 'committed versus casual BDSM' I'm thinking along the lines of a Master forever owning a slave, and having the right to occasionally play with other slaves... how does it work?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'm curious to know how others view this. Is it an expected part of being a slave? Is it written into a contract? Do some set it as a definite 'no'? If it is practiced, how is it done? How does the pyl feel about it? How is she supposed to feel about it? And on a different tangent, what about introducing a third female when the pyl is not bi-curious?

My PYL and I are still sorting out how far our BDSM relationship is going to go (we were vanilla boyfriend and girlfriend first). I've told him I wanted a 24/7 D/s relationship, and may consider slavery in the future but not at this stage. I'm not one to feel pressured into doing anything I don't want to do, which is why I'm keen to set my limits now and then say "go for it". I'm sure things will change as the relationship progresses, so I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of, what will I allow now? Will I want to change that limit later?

I should maybe mention here that I'm divorced, and therefore not sure if I still believe in monogamy. If I was truly owned by someone, and knew for a certainty that he would come home to me and I was the only constant girl in his life, and that it was making him happy, maybe I could be ok with it...? Maybe it's a matter of, you're not a slave so you have your choice if it happens or not, or you are a slave so deal with it?

Please... I don't want to hear anything about 'committed versus casual BDSM' I'm thinking along the lines of a Master forever owning a slave, and having the right to occasionally play with other slaves... how does it work?

Personally, I think the only expected part of being the submissive in the relationship is that you be submissive, however that works for you.

If you wish for the relationship to be closed, then you find someone who wishes for the same thing. Being submissive does not equal having to 'expect' that he'll play with others 'as his right' nor do you have to 'just deal with it.'

You need to work out what you're good with, and what you're not good with. And you have every right to do so.

Mr and I play with others on occasion. The thing I couldn't live with was to involve bdsm play with others. He was willing to accept that, so we just do straight sex. There's some limits on what I do during that time, that he's chosen to put in place, and he's free to do as he pleases. I've made a few other requests from time to time, some have been heeded, some not.

It's just a matter of finding what you can live with, and what you can enjoy.

 

[Bandit58]

Sir does not play with others unless I am present. I'm bisexual, and I also have "girl time" with a long time (nearly 4 years) friend with benefits (she's vanilla btw).

I guess some Doms would expect this to be part of the relationship, but there are also plenty who do not. Our relationship is going on for 6 1/2 years and there have been few (less than 10) occasions where we have brought in another.

I identify as a submissive not a slave. Our communication and negotiations are ongoing and Sir has said that if I ever become uncomfortable with bringing in others then we will stop.

Feelings do change over time and what you are comfortable with now may well change in the future, so keep those communication lines open.

P.S. We live in Sydney

 

[ecstaticsub]

At the very beginning of our relationship my PYL made a few thing very clear and non-negotiable. One was that I since he owned me I had no right to give away something that he owned. Meaning I was not to have sex with or engage in any BDSM activities without his permission. On the other hand I didn't own him so he could do what he wanted. This included invited others-male or female- in to play with us as he wishes.

I had a choice at the time to either accept this and become his submissive or not and we would have remained FWBs. I choose to accept it.

But he is not stupid nor is he an asshole. He also is in love with me and values our relationship and my well-being. He is also 100% honest with me. When different situations have come up we have talked about it and I have learned ways to channel my envy into a way of enhancing my submission.

I don't think a PYL has a right to play with others just because they are a PYL. It needs to be clear right from the beginning what the expectation will be.

 

[Black_Bunny]

Mr and I play with others on occasion. There's some limits on what I do during that time, that he's chosen to put in place, and he's free to do as he pleases. I've made a few other requests from time to time, some have been heeded, some not.

It's just a matter of finding what you can live with, and what you can enjoy.

Thanks for your reply. So how do you figure out what you can live with? I don't know why I'm having so much trouble deciding if this is a limit or not

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Thanks for your reply. So how do you figure out what you can live with? I don't know why I'm having so much trouble deciding if this is a limit or not

Well, for me, it was a matter of thinking about what my submission to him meant to me. I view it as a unique, deeply personal aspect of us, and I realised that it was something I was not willing to share with others.

The caveat on that being, that if we were learning something new, a new technique etc from a Dom or Dom/sub couple, but that hasn't come up as yet.

If you need to, you can simply try it. Have all the discussions beforehand, engage int he play, then sit down for the fifth quarter and analyse it. Talk about how you felt, what you liked, didn't like, what you think will be ok in the future and what will not. And if necessary, in the future, revisit it.

That's another option. You'll find different people with different experiences. Take it all on board, and then see what works for you.

 

[Black_Bunny]

When different situations have come up we have talked about it and I have learned ways to channel my envy into a way of enhancing my submission.

I don't think a PYL has a right to play with others just because they are a PYL. It needs to be clear right from the beginning what the expectation will be.

I don't think that my PYL would actually want to play with others, and he's never mentioned anything of it, but I want to give him that freedom, as part of my submission. I mean, if I decide that it's not a limit for me. I love the way you say about channelling envy into a way of enhancing submission.

Feelings do change over time and what you are comfortable with now may well change in the future, so keep those communication lines open.

P.S. We live in Sydney

Thank you. And hello from Adelaide

 

[Black_Bunny]

If you need to, you can simply try it. Have all the discussions beforehand, engage int he play, then sit down for the fifth quarter and analyse it. Talk about how you felt, what you liked, didn't like, what you think will be ok in the future and what will not. And if necessary, in the future, revisit it.

That's another option. You'll find different people with different experiences. Take it all on board, and then see what works for you.

Thanks, that's a good idea... I'd feel comfortable giving it a go with the purpose of deciding if it would be a one-off or not. I do like to think of myself as someone who never says no without trying it first. Just not sure how to "try" something like this!

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Thanks, that's a good idea... I'd feel comfortable giving it a go with the purpose of deciding if it would be a one-off or not. I do like to think of myself as someone who never says no without trying it first. Just not sure how to "try" something like this!

Thatr's a whole other thread

I did see your other comment about wanting to give him the freedom to play with others as part of your submission. That's admirable.

 

[00Syd]

Thanks for your reply. So how do you figure out what you can live with? I don't know why I'm having so much trouble deciding if this is a limit or not

I was having this same problem recently. I didn't know if this was something that I could deal with, and I wasn't sure how you figure that out without just trying it, and I was really afraid to try it. But, y'know, sometimes you have to do things that scare you. So, we, as a couple, tried it. I just went for it, and I played with a guy who I was interested in, and Seb (my PYL) went and played with a girl that he was interested in, and despite all of my fears... the sky didn't fall in, neither of us fell out of love, and in fact, our sense of ourselves, and our love for each other was completely reaffirmed and our relationship felt that much stronger.

There are times when you'll encounter something that you know for a fact you have no interest in trying. There are other times when you'll encounter something that you are genuinely on the fence about. This was one of those things, for me, and it might be one of those things for you. It would be nice if we could figure out all of these things just be thinking and talking about them, but it won't always work that way, and sometimes you just really won't know until you give it a shot. If you feel comfortable enough to try it, I recommend that you do, in whatever way works for you and yours. Talk about it first, be honest about how you're feeling with each other, and it should work out, one way or the other. Maybe you'll realize that you like seeing him play with others (and possibly playing with others yourself?), and maybe you'll realize that it's absolutely not for you. There is no right or wrong way to be, or to structure a relationship. Different things work for different people, find what works for you.

 

[the captians wench]

Jounar and I have agreed that if we lived together (or hell in the same country!) this would not be in the cards for us.

When we first became an item, we kept it open (for logistical reasons mostly) after a couple of years of this, we realized it just wasn't going to work for us and went exclusive.

I remember having this conversation with a slave friend of mine. I told her that I could not do what she does (sit back while her master fucked any girl he wished, or even look for a second slave), the jealousy would eat at me too much. She looked at me in total shock. She told me that while she's not one to judge any one's submission, she could not understand putting any limits on her master, after all, he is master.

I could tell at times this bothered her, his interactions with other women, but she just took it as part of her submission. Me, I lash out when I think some one else is getting attention that I see as mine.

It's something you have to decide if you can live with or not. If you have questions, I would say you're not ready, you can always add it in later.

 

[Black_Bunny]

I did see your other comment about wanting to give him the freedom to play with others as part of your submission. That's admirable.

Thank you

I was having this same problem recently. I didn't know if this was something that I could deal with, and I wasn't sure how you figure that out without just trying it, and I was really afraid to try it. But, y'know, sometimes you have to do things that scare you. So, we, as a couple, tried it. I just went for it, and I played with a guy who I was interested in, and Seb (my PYL) went and played with a girl that he was interested in, and despite all of my fears... the sky didn't fall in, neither of us fell out of love, and in fact, our sense of ourselves, and our love for each other was completely reaffirmed and our relationship felt that much stronger.

I think I will definitely need to test it out before I make any decisions on this. That's so great that it worked out well for you. Like you were, I'm really afraid to try it. I'm thinking its perhaps because our relationship is still sort of new-ish, and I'm afraid that he'll go "oh I remember what it was like to fuck other women" and leave me... does that sound stupid? This is the area I struggle with the most self-esteem-wise, because I've had so much rejection in the past.

So I think I will wait until I feel more sure and secure in the relationship (both because the relationship has strengthened and also because I've worked on my self-esteem issues) and then I will suggest testing it once to see if we like it.

This has been sooo helpful!! Thank you!

 

[ownedsubgal]

Black Bunny, you are a pretty sharp cookie to pose these questions to yourself at such an early stage. but as you probably know, these things will be different for every individual relationship.

i am a slave, and we operate with the understanding that he has the right to do what he pleases...whether it's something he wishes to subject me to, or a desire he may have to be involved in any way with other females. i have never believed in sexual monogamy, so him having sex with others has zero effect on me emotionally. He has me sexually serve other men often. however him wanting to form serious relationships with others is a different story...that is difficult for me (extremely!), and unfortunately it's something i've had to learn to bear as he happens to be not wired for completely casual sex. there was a period of time, about 8 months, where he even had another slave. that and the surrounding year were the darkest period of my life, and even now i am struggling to really accept that he has these desires and more significantly, the capability of loving more than one person at a time.

before that whole experience, i had never even considered the possibility of poly. it seemed out of the question, ridiculous. so it taught me the valuable lesson that as a slave you never know what may come down the road, and you have to learn to bear, then accept, then thrive, despite it all.

 

[00Syd]

I think I will definitely need to test it out before I make any decisions on this. That's so great that it worked out well for you. Like you were, I'm really afraid to try it. I'm thinking its perhaps because our relationship is still sort of new-ish, and I'm afraid that he'll go "oh I remember what it was like to fuck other women" and leave me... does that sound stupid? This is the area I struggle with the most self-esteem-wise, because I've had so much rejection in the past.

So I think I will wait until I feel more sure and secure in the relationship (both because the relationship has strengthened and also because I've worked on my self-esteem issues) and then I will suggest testing it once to see if we like it.

This has been sooo helpful!! Thank you!

You seem like you're on the right track and know what you're doing Rock on!

I'm currently reading The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy and I've been suggesting it to pretty much everyone, so I figure I might as well suggest it to you, too. They have a lot of good advice and info on opening up relationships, and finding a relationship structure that works well for you and your SO. I really think it's a good starting point for anyone who is beginning to even consider the possibility of going down the road of non-monogamy. There are a lot of really great resources of information on this stuff, and so that book is only one of many. It's a really good beginners guide, if you will.

 

[the captians wench]

OSG, I've always admired your dedication, and you post really touches me, but I want to point out (for our new poster who may not be as familure to you as the rest of us here) that you practice what many consider an extream form of slavery.

My personal deffinitions define you as slave and me as sub because of your litteral no say in anything. It's a place I'm not sure I'll ever be, nor do i know if I desire to be anylonger, but I admire it just the same.

 

[Black_Bunny]

If you have questions, I would say you're not ready, you can always add it in later.

That's what I'm beginning to think too.

Black Bunny, you are a pretty sharp cookie to pose these questions to yourself at such an early stage. but as you probably know, these things will be different for every individual relationship.

i am a slave, and we operate with the understanding that he has the right to do what he pleases...whether it's something he wishes to subject me to, or a desire he may have to be involved in any way with other females. i have never believed in sexual monogamy, so him having sex with others has zero effect on me emotionally. He has me sexually serve other men often. however him wanting to form serious relationships with others is a different story...that is difficult for me (extremely!), and unfortunately it's something i've had to learn to bear as he happens to be not wired for completely casual sex. there was a period of time, about 8 months, where he even had another slave. that and the surrounding year were the darkest period of my life, and even now i am struggling to really accept that he has these desires and more significantly, the capability of loving more than one person at a time.

before that whole experience, i had never even considered the possibility of poly. it seemed out of the question, ridiculous. so it taught me the valuable lesson that as a slave you never know what may come down the road, and you have to learn to bear, then accept, then thrive, despite it all.

Thank you, ownedsubgal

I don't know why this reminded me, or if it's even relevant, but I used to fantasize about being part of a harem, except that somehow I always ended up being the 'special, chosen' girl, somehow more important to the Master than the other girls in the harem.

I think what you find difficult, him forming relationships with people instead of just casually having sex, is what I'm worried about. If I had some sort of guarantee that nothing other than irregular casual sex came out of his seeing another woman, I'd be ok with it, but the thing is I think it's only human to start feeling things and forming attachments to someone you're sleeping with.

I don't think, no I know, I'm not ready to bear and accept it all. At least not now. I am interested to know ownedsubgal how you came to that agreement? Was it decided upon before the relationship could begin like in ecstaticsub's case? Or was it assumed because you are a slave?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think what you find difficult, him forming relationships with people instead of just casually having sex, is what I'm worried about. If I had some sort of guarantee that nothing other than irregular casual sex came out of his seeing another woman, I'd be ok with it, but the thing is I think it's only human to start feeling things and forming attachments to someone you're sleeping with.

This brings to bear another aspect.

Are the additional players going to be brief cameos or recurring roles?

Once off's, he won't form a relationship with, but if it was the same person on an ongoing casual basis, then yes, there's the chance.

 

[Black_Bunny]

OSG, I've always admired your dedication, and you post really touches me, but I want to point out (for our new poster who may not be as familure to you as the rest of us here) that you practice what many consider an extream form of slavery.

My personal deffinitions define you as slave and me as sub because of your litteral no say in anything. It's a place I'm not sure I'll ever be, nor do i know if I desire to be anylonger, but I admire it just the same.

Thank you for making that was clear to me; even though there seems to be dispute about what label means what, I tend to think of it the same way you do, ownedsubgal is a slave and you and me are subs. Surprisingly, there is a whole lot more info out there about the more 'extreme' type of slavery as opposed to D/s or T/b, so in all my research and reading I think I've learnt more about slaves than I have about the type of relationship I'm trying to achieve for myself, frustratingly

 

[Black_Bunny]

This brings to bear another aspect.

Are the additional players going to be brief cameos or recurring roles?

Once off's, he won't form a relationship with, but if it was the same person on an ongoing casual basis, then yes, there's the chance.

That's the thing... do I go, "you are not allowed to sleep with the same woman more than once"? Isn't this starting to 'top from the bottom' if I understand that term correctly?

It's funny, here's me stressing about all of this while the thought probably hasn't even crossed his mind

 

[Black_Bunny]

You seem like you're on the right track and know what you're doing Rock on!

I'm currently reading The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy and I've been suggesting it to pretty much everyone, so I figure I might as well suggest it to you, too.

Thank you, I've read about other book recommendations too, where do I go for these books? I'm guessing my local library is a little too close-minded for such things... and uh I'm on a tight budget here

 

[ownedsubgal]

That's what I'm beginning to think too.



Thank you, ownedsubgal

I don't know why this reminded me, or if it's even relevant, but I used to fantasize about being part of a harem, except that somehow I always ended up being the 'special, chosen' girl, somehow more important to the Master than the other girls in the harem.

I think what you find difficult, him forming relationships with people instead of just casually having sex, is what I'm worried about. If I had some sort of guarantee that nothing other than irregular casual sex came out of his seeing another woman, I'd be ok with it, but the thing is I think it's only human to start feeling things and forming attachments to someone you're sleeping with.

I don't think, no I know, I'm not ready to bear and accept it all. At least not now. I am interested to know ownedsubgal how you came to that agreement? Was it decided upon before the relationship could begin like in ecstaticsub's case? Or was it assumed because you are a slave?

there was no negotiation in this relationship. by agreeing to become his slave, i accepted all that may come. also unlike your relationship, there was no progression from one type of commitment to another. we were friends one day, Master and slave the next. that is because we both had no question that slavery is the only type of serious relationship in which we could find fulfillment or even be wholly ourselves. He needs the absolute control, and i need the structure, guidance and discipline.

now of course before saying "yes," to becoming property i knew him very well (as i said, we were friends). but i also was aware that a person's desires, needs or even boundaries may change over time, and i accepted the possibility of such changes. for me being his slave and sharing a life with him, is worth whatever sacrifices, challenges or hardships i may have to endure. for you it may not be worth it...heck, for most it would not be worth it.


now as far as forming attachments via sex, i don't necessarily agree with that. when i am used sexually by other men, i feel in no way tied or bonded to that man simply because we are having sex. now there are some who, according to my Master's will, i form connections with and even start to care about in a general sense...but that has to do with everything that happens OUTside the sex with these specific people. it also doesn't come anywhere close to "love," or romantic feelings of any sort. it is more the way a nurse may grow to genuinely care for a regular patient.

 

[eastern sun]

Black Bunny, you are a pretty sharp cookie to pose these questions to yourself at such an early stage. but as you probably know, these things will be different for every individual relationship.

i am a slave, and we operate with the understanding that he has the right to do what he pleases...whether it's something he wishes to subject me to, or a desire he may have to be involved in any way with other females. i have never believed in sexual monogamy, so him having sex with others has zero effect on me emotionally. He has me sexually serve other men often. however him wanting to form serious relationships with others is a different story...that is difficult for me (extremely!), and unfortunately it's something i've had to learn to bear as he happens to be not wired for completely casual sex. there was a period of time, about 8 months, where he even had another slave. that and the surrounding year were the darkest period of my life, and even now i am struggling to really accept that he has these desires and more significantly, the capability of loving more than one person at a time.

before that whole experience, i had never even considered the possibility of poly. it seemed out of the question, ridiculous. so it taught me the valuable lesson that as a slave you never know what may come down the road, and you have to learn to bear, then accept, then thrive, despite it all.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

We added the formal M/s dynamics to an existing marriage, and the first thing that happened was that the relationship opened up. In some ways, the formality of the structure provided a safety net, but (frankly) I have abandonment issues. I don't respond well to his emotional bonds with other women at all.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Thank you for making that was clear to me; even though there seems to be dispute about what label means what, I tend to think of it the same way you do, ownedsubgal is a slave and you and me are subs. Surprisingly, there is a whole lot more info out there about the more 'extreme' type of slavery as opposed to D/s or T/b, so in all my research and reading I think I've learnt more about slaves than I have about the type of relationship I'm trying to achieve for myself, frustratingly

lol...no offense chickadee, but i just had to laugh at this one as i have often felt the same way: it is so easy to find information and firsthand accounts of everyday life in non-ownership D/s relationships and especially about top/bottom relationships, but very difficult to find much about slavery. haha! perhaps the other stuff just sticks out so much for us because in a way it invalidates our given identities.

 

[ownedsubgal]

OSG, I've always admired your dedication, and you post really touches me, but I want to point out (for our new poster who may not be as familure to you as the rest of us here) that you practice what many consider an extream form of slavery.

My personal deffinitions define you as slave and me as sub because of your litteral no say in anything. It's a place I'm not sure I'll ever be, nor do i know if I desire to be anylonger, but I admire it just the same.

wenchie, thanks so much.

though i certainly don't view my life as "extreme," in fact compared to many of you folks i feel quite plain and dull...i mean, i don't even know what "subspace" is! lol. but in between all the cooking and laundry and other old-fashioned housewifey stuff, there are the big hard things too, things i recognize would not be bearable or acceptable to most people.

 

[Black_Bunny]

(frankly) I have abandonment issues. I don't respond well to his emotional bonds with other women at all.

So do I. Father left me, husband left me... how do you get around it??

it is so easy to find information and firsthand accounts of everyday life in non-ownership D/s relationships and especially about top/bottom relationships, but very difficult to find much about slavery.

Really?? All I've read about are contracts and collars and slave training and being given away for training and playing at BDSM parties... that's why all this stuff about Masters having the right to play with others is on my mind... honestly the only stuff I've read about non-ownership relationships has been in Literotica! Where are the non-ownership accounts you speak of?!