Military Justice?

[JackLuis]

Wow, found this and I'm "Shocked. Shocked I tell you"

30% of women in the Military say they have been raped, and the military said, "Oh that's bad for moral, just keep quiet."

The NPR article is a little less shocking, but not much.

Let's see what the "Ring Knockers" have to say about this in the coming days.

 

[stephen55]

Yet Another Oxymoron

"Military Justice"

It's as much an oxymoron as "Military Intelligence".

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Those good ol' boys are still in charge and don't want to have their most senior people

1. lose their pensions
2. be put in prison

There are time that I am ashamed to have been in the military and this is one of them. They should all, the rapists, be put behind bars for as long as possible. True they did server their country but when they chose rape they forfeit all benefits they may have garnered by their service.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Wow, found this and I'm "Shocked. Shocked I tell you"

30% of women in the Military say they have been raped, and the military said, "Oh that's bad for moral, just keep quiet."

The NPR article is a little less shocking, but not much.

Let's see what the "Ring Knockers" have to say about this in the coming days.

Much the same struggle goes on in the military as has been going on in police and fire departments. The same failure to prosecute the perpetrators, the same light sentences on the rare situations when conviction occurs. And no matter how hard responsible commanders attempt to end the stupidity, the only times that it gets reported are the ones that hit the press. It's exceptionally disgusting that 'higher HQ' talks a better game than they play!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Much the same struggle goes on in the military as has been going on in police and fire departments. The same failure to prosecute the perpetrators, the same light sentences on the rare situations when conviction occurs. And no matter how hard responsible commanders attempt to end the stupidity, the only times that it gets reported are the ones that hit the press. It's exceptionally disgusting that 'higher HQ' talks a better game than they play!

Well they have had wonderful examples in the past few commander in chiefs, haven't they?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Well they have had wonderful examples in the past few commander in chiefs, haven't they?

Not to mention the staffs thereof!

 

[Lisa Summers]

Of course, you can expect me to want to see the rapists punished appropriately. My vengeful heart would call for hot pokers up their bums, but that doesn't really solve the problem, it just turns the whole organization into a Lord of the Flies situation.

I don't know...***** in prison? Castration? Just STOP the violence against women!!

For the love of Gaia.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

It's not surprising, yet sad. Women have made inroads, in some aspects amazing progress and seem to enjoy more freedoms than we've ever experienced. Still, we have the above. It's even worse in other countries, so I'm happy I'm here. It's just sad that such abuses can't be stopped. Will they ever?

Women's freedoms come at a cost, and the above examples illustrate the cost.

 

[Jagged]

Not to make light of this issue, but what is the percentage of women sexually assaulted in the civilian world? Cover ups are wrong and every soldier should be treated fairly, but is the military different than say a university campus or other large institution that would rather damage control than be proactive like it should be?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not to make light of this issue, but what is the percentage of women sexually assaulted in the civilian world? Cover ups are wrong and every soldier should be treated fairly, but is the military different than say a university campus or other large institution that would rather damage control than be proactive like it should be?

I would say that, in any situation where there are fewer women then men, and the institution was once male-dominated--- you will see something like this.

It ought to be one of the things women tell each other, about police work, fire fighting, merchant marines, ranch-handing... and it probably is.

 

[JackLuis]

I suggest we see here the fact that women can not be treated as men in the military. Not because women are incapable but that the average male solder can not be trusted with their care.

The Iraq and Afghan wars are fought on a battle field with very few available women. Such was not the case in Viet Nam. Korea, Italy, Germany etal. 140,000 raging hard-ons is a powerful force.

I suggest that it might be better to form woman's units of Infantry, Armor, etal and see who out performs whom?

The Military Establishment will never go along with this, for fear that they would have to admit that women can be better at War, particularly if they can be in command. Who took the shit for Abu Greb? A women. Was she culpable, or was she the fall girl for Rummy and the CIA?

No I fear that the American Solder is no longer responsible enough for him to be associated with women. His education has lagged too far, he has not enough moral fiber to overcome his biology. His leadership has degraded to the point that it may never recover.

 

[Lisa Summers]

I suggest we see here the fact that women can not be treated as men in the military. Not because women are incapable but that the average male solder can not be trusted with their care.

The Iraq and Afghan wars are fought on a battle field with very few available women. Such was not the case in Viet Nam. Korea, Italy, Germany etal. 140,000 raging hard-ons is a powerful force.

I suggest that it might be better to form woman's units of Infantry, Armor, etal and see who out performs whom?

The Military Establishment will never go along with this, for fear that they would have to admit that women can be better at War, particularly if they can be in command. Who took the shit for Abu Greb? A women. Was she culpable, or was she the fall girl for Rummy and the CIA?

No I fear that the American Solder is no longer responsible enough for him to be associated with women. His education has lagged too far, he has not enough moral fiber to overcome his biology. His leadership has degraded to the point that it may never recover.

I really don't know if you're being serious or not. How about we just require that men in the military behave like civilized human beings, unless they are directed otherwise by their superiors?

And if they're not capable of following directions, then they be cashiered or otherwise punished.

 

[JackLuis]

I really don't know if you're being serious or not. How about we just require that men in the military behave like civilized human beings, unless they are directed otherwise by their superiors?

And if they're not capable of following directions, then they be cashiered or otherwise punished.

It is the Superiors who are doing the suppressing of these charges. Men in stressful conditions are not always in touch with their moral center and may be swayed by the unscrupulous into things that they might not do, ordinarily. What Major who wants to be promoted wants to bring charges of this type and 'besmirch the Honor of the the Corps".

Correcting this problem must be done form the top. Otherwise the lack of Honor can never be made up.

We must remember that "Over there" is a hell of a lot farther away than you can imagine. The distance from Afghanistan to America is a lot greater than the distance from America to Afghanistan. Different Culture, Economy, but the same old dust of Empires faded blows down the Khyber Pass.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by voluptuary_manque
Much the same struggle goes on in the military as has been going on in police and fire departments. The same failure to prosecute the perpetrators, the same light sentences on the rare situations when conviction occurs. And no matter how hard responsible commanders attempt to end the stupidity, the only times that it gets reported are the ones that hit the press. It's exceptionally disgusting that 'higher HQ' talks a better game than they play!

Well they have had wonderful examples in the past few commander in chiefs, haven't they?

Well, there was Clinton the draft dodger and W the deserter. Bush the elder served honorably in combat, or so I have heard. With the Big O, the question has apparently never arisen.

 

[Pure]

urls for material

jack, i thought readers of this thread, if they hadn't caught the portion of another thread which touched on this topic might find these urls useful, ones i previously posted.

jamie leigh jones case

jamie leigh jones raped by co workers [KBR] in iraq. spent a couple years in court trying to establish a right to have her case heard by a court!


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702&page=1

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/...ie-leigh-jones

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/reports/Jones071219.pdf ms jones testimony

http://www.jamiesfoundation.org/press.htm


Maria Lauterbach raped by fellow Marine

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/31/mil...use/index.html


Rape in the US Military

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,2956277.story

 

[JackLuis]

Thanks Pure for the info.

Our Military is not the only institution that needs to face reality, but damn it breaks my heart to see the Military mistreat women as if the Army was the damned Islamo-fascists bastards!

And the CinC, Sec Def, FBI, chase illusive arabs in Yemen, when the Philistines are us?

I was interested in the SOTU tonight and thought Obama handled it well. A little humor, a little prodding and the point that the American people are tired of the same old run around.

 

[stephen55]

A bit confused on this....

I suggest we see here the fact that women can not be treated as men in the military. Not because women are incapable but that the average male solder can not be trusted with their care.

The Iraq and Afghan wars are fought on a battle field with very few available women. Such was not the case in Viet Nam. Korea, Italy, Germany etal. 140,000 raging hard-ons is a powerful force.

I suggest that it might be better to form woman's units of Infantry, Armor, etal and see who out performs whom?

The Military Establishment will never go along with this, for fear that they would have to admit that women can be better at War, particularly if they can be in command. Who took the shit for Abu Greb? A women. Was she culpable, or was she the fall girl for Rummy and the CIA?

No I fear that the American Solder is no longer responsible enough for him to be associated with women. His education has lagged too far, he has not enough moral fiber to overcome his biology. His leadership has degraded to the point that it may never recover.

"a battle field with very few available women..." "not the case in Viet Nam, Korea..."

This is a real question and not a rant. Do you mean that in Iraq and Afghanistan there are fewer women to rape in the local civilian population, so military men have taken to raping military women, or do you mean that there are fewer "camp followers" to provide a pay as you go outlet for those raging hard-ons.

My guess is you meant the latter.

I'm not up on current American military law and protocol, but it's my understanding that it is against military law for service men and women to engage in sex while in a battlefield area.

Rape under any circumstance is to be deplored. But I wonder if that military rule, if it is indeed true, may have something to do with those raging hard-ons. Without getting into the legal/social/moral issues surrounding prostitution and the morass of public opinion and security problems that would come with having brothels close to the enemy, perhaps camp followers, voluntary and well payed, have a role to play and a useful service to provide.

Notice that I haven't restricted camp followers to one sex or the other. It just seems reasonable that if a very serious problem has been identified, then a serious effort should be made to correct the problem.

 

[JackLuis]

"a battle field with very few available women..." "not the case in Viet Nam, Korea..."

In Viet Nam just about every bar and there were a lot of them, had two or three or 20 prostitutes. I'm guessing about Korea but only about 1952-53, cause I was small.

I have never heard of a brothel in Iraq or Afghanistan. I imagine they exist, but are very stealthy, probably Officers only.

Any Vet's care to expound on how hard it is to get laid in Baghdad?