Why sub

[ataxia.girl]

A post in the "Why Dominate?" thread made me start wondering what is it i find attractive about being on the bottom.

i want to pose this as a hypothetical. Lets say you have a couple. Both partners have the same level of education, make the same amount of money, and have comparable other abilities and achievements, and are both able to independently take care of themselves when not in a relationship. What other reason besides low self esteem would cause one person in this relationship to cede control outside the bedroom to the other in any matter they would be equally affected by? Because its more common i'm going to assume the PYL is male and the pyl is female. Why would a female of healthy self esteem, comparable ability and achievement cede control of things she is equally vested in like how a home is furnished or where joint vacations are taken to her Dominate partner?

i guess i'm trying to get my head around the expectation that a bottom would be all these healthy, independent, wonderful things and be happy to turn over control not only in the bedroom but outside it as well to a Dominant that wasn't really her superior in self esteem\self assurance at least.

 

[KellysCrack]

While I enjoy being in charge at work and with the kids...I want a Man in control. I get my kick from him pulling my hair, teasing me endlessly, and having him do whatever he wants. I prefer to be on my knees at his feet when the chance permits and I love to service his needs no matter what they are when ever I can or am allowed. I in generall have a need to fix it personallity. If the toy is broke we fix it, something is screwed up at work...fix it. You have a horrible knot in your back lay down and let me rub that for the next two hours. As long as everything gets fixed and the house is happy then all is good.

 

[CutieMouse]

A post in the "Why Dominate?" thread made me start wondering what is it i find attractive about being on the bottom.

i want to pose this as a hypothetical. Lets say you have a couple. Both partners have the same level of education, make the same amount of money, and have comparable other abilities and achievements, and are both able to independently take care of themselves when not in a relationship. What other reason besides low self esteem would cause one person in this relationship to cede control outside the bedroom to the other in any matter they would be equally affected by? Because its more common i'm going to assume the PYL is male and the pyl is female. Why would a female of healthy self esteem, comparable ability and achievement cede control of things she is equally vested in like how a home is furnished or where joint vacations are taken to her Dominate partner?

i guess i'm trying to get my head around the expectation that a bottom would be all these healthy, independent, wonderful things and be happy to turn over control not only in the bedroom but outside it as well to a Dominant that wasn't really her superior in self esteem\self assurance at least.

I guess I don't see it in terms of superiority... I have zero interest in drama or power struggles, and am perfectly okay *not* running the show in my relationships. I routinely kick his ass on certain subjects; he routinely kicks mine on others. The superiority thing is an apples/oranges issue, for me.

Having said that - part of what makes it easier to not run the show, is making sure the person who is running the show has similar tastes.

 

[ataxia.girl]

While I enjoy being in charge at work and with the kids...I want a Man in control. I get my kick from him pulling my hair, teasing me endlessly, and having him do whatever he wants. I prefer to be on my knees at his feet when the chance permits and I love to service his needs no matter what they are when ever I can or am allowed. I in generall have a need to fix it personallity. If the toy is broke we fix it, something is screwed up at work...fix it. You have a horrible knot in your back lay down and let me rub that for the next two hours. As long as everything gets fixed and the house is happy then all is good.

Yeah i get the whole bedroom control thing completely but what i'm asking about is why would a person sub OUTSIDE the bedroom as well all other things being equal.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I guess I don't see it in terms of superiority... I have zero interest in drama or power struggles, and am perfectly okay *not* running the show in my relationships. I routinely kick his ass on certain subjects; he routinely kicks mine on others. The superiority thing is an apples/oranges issue, for me.

Having said that - part of what makes it easier to not run the show, is making sure the person who is running the show has similar tastes.

Similar tastes as in would rather go to your family's house for thanksgiving than his? Or similar tastes in willing to identify your need to be with your family this year and making it happen?

Similar tastes in furnishings i guess goes with similar tastes in lifestyle.

 

[CutieMouse]

Similar tastes as in would rather go to your family's house for thanksgiving than his? Or similar tastes in willing to identify your need to be with your family this year and making it happen?

Similar tastes in furnishings i guess goes with similar tastes in lifestyle.

Similar tastes in generic (and specific) life goals, interests, passions, social mores, etc. Commonality. He's someone I consider a friend, first... and I prefer to spend my holidays alone. LOL

 

[bruisedangel]

It doesn't have anything to do with self-esteem issues, at least for me. Not counting those random days nearly everyone has, where one feels like crap about damn near everything, I'm among the premiere members of my own fan club. (Hey, someone has to stroke my ego. Might as well be me.) It has everything to do with what turns me on. In so many areas of my life, I'm the person who is in complete control. I run a business. I'm the person who is (for the most part) solely responsible for the care of my child. When it comes time to doing things with friends, I'm the one they look to for ideas. When it comes to my relationship, it's a relief to the point of sexual release to hand over the reigns. I know that he's going to see to aspects of my life that I brush aside. Furthermore, he sees to my sexual fetishes and predilections. We both enjoy my being bound, belted, etc. I can't speak for others. I can speak for me. I sub, because that's what I do. Submitting to him only increases my self-esteem. Ultimately, no matter how violent the acts he commits on me are, he's more interested in the reactions and pleasure he causes me in the long run. Because I know my submission gives him satisfaction, I'm turned on. Because I'm turned on, he gets satisfaction. Which just makes things hotter for me. Wow. I think I'm talking in circles. I sub because I need to.

 

[KellysCrack]

Yeah i get the whole bedroom control thing completely but what i'm asking about is why would a person sub OUTSIDE the bedroom as well all other things being equal.

We do to a point... hard to get too envolved with kiddos running around the house.

 

[SimonBrooke]

It doesn't have anything to do with self-esteem issues, at least for me. Not counting those random days nearly everyone has, where one feels like crap about damn near everything, I'm among the premiere members of my own fan club. (Hey, someone has to stroke my ego. Might as well be me.)

Out of the way, girl. That's my job.

I sub, because that's what I do. Submitting to him only increases my self-esteem. Ultimately, no matter how violent the acts he commits on me are, he's more interested in the reactions and pleasure he causes me in the long run. Because I know my submission gives him satisfaction, I'm turned on. Because I'm turned on, he gets satisfaction. Which just makes things hotter for me. Wow. I think I'm talking in circles. I sub because I need to.

It almost makes you believe in divine providence. For every one like me, there's one like her

 

[bruisedangel]

Yeah i get the whole bedroom control thing completely but what i'm asking about is why would a person sub OUTSIDE the bedroom as well all other things being equal.

In some ways, I do submit outside the bedroom (or any other room, or out of doors!). Like I said, I'm not always very good at taking care of me. I tend to be so busy taking care of others, errands, random things that I feel won't get done unless I run myself ragged, that I forget all about me. He demands that I do certain things in order to take care of myself. I comply. He's happy that I'm doing what he's demanded, I'm happy because I've bothered to take the time to do something that benefits me, whether it's taking care of my health, or taking the time to relax with a good book.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I like this question, it has made me think not only in terms of my D/s relationship but my vanilla marriage also.

Pertaining to my marriage..

Over the course of our 20+ years of marriage we have switched back and forth as far as who makes more money. Who has brought in the most has never altered the power dynamics in our relationship at all. This is not a power exchange relationship but in my experience the majority of vanilla marriages do have a power dynamic where the one who makes the most money has the final say on how that money is spent.

We never have. We both have graduate degrees, we both have healthy self esteem and abilities that are different but equal in value.

But I let him make three of the most important decisions in our life--the decision for him to go into the military, the decision to have children and the decision of where to live for the rest of our life. He has asked for my input and if I had said no or disagreed with him then maybe he would have backed down...but maybe not.

I make the majority of the day to day decisions in our life---what to eat, paying the bills, what color to paint the bedroom, etc. In general I am in control of the family on a day-to-day basis and even most major decisions

I would never agree to be submissive to my husband for decisions outside the bedroom. I guess I like the feeling of control I do have and I have more confidence in my decisions than him on these issues

So why would I cede to him the most important decisions? The only reasons I can think of is that I didn't have any good reason not to agree with him. I know that all three of those meant more to him than the opposite meant to me.

I will say now in hindsight I am extremely happy that I let him veto me and make those choices.

My D/s relationship is different since I don't live with him. He also has no interest in making any every day decisions that don't effect him. He does however make decisions on things outside the bedroom that do effect him. Mostly those that have to do with how available I am for him. There are also things that I would think don't effect him but he has decided he wants control over so he does.

Money has nothing to do with our relationship, education is the same, we are both equals as far as self-esteem (though maybe he has a healthier more aggressive ego.. ). So why do I give up control of our outside the bedroom non-sexual decisions? Because it is a consistency. I made the decision to offer him my submission. This independent, strong willed, control freak, intelligent me offered him my submission. It wasn't just the right to beat me and fuck me with force, it was my submission mentally and sexually.

I do struggle with some of the non-sexual decisions my PYL makes. But I like the challenge of making myself comply. The resulting feeling is very similar to reaching any other goal--like swimming across a lake, or climbing a mountain.

At this time my vanilla husband is telling me to get off the computer and get dressed to go shopping..I will obey (but be back later to finish)

 

[ownedsubgal]

hi ataxia,

i realize this question does not pertain to submissives like myself, but it's a great question and one which i've considered when thinking about alllll relationships, even the most vanilla. imo, it's as simple as the fact that two captains cannot steer a ship. or, another cute saying i like, "a snake with two heads will only devour itself." 50/50 in reality simply does not work, it's unproductive and unhealthy. when push comes to shove, there needs to be someone who can and will consistently be the voice of authority.

 

[eastern sun]

Because it makes us happier. Both of us.

I didn't plan to be in an M/s relationship. Or even a D/s relationship. I didn't plan on submitting to my husband. In fact, our early marriage was pretty volatile. We both felt trapped.

Over time, natural power dynamics evolved. Because we worked together, he had tremendous influence in all aspects of my life. I followed his lead, and played supporting roles. He was the idea man. I was the executor.

Until our first child was born, eight years into our marriage. All of a sudden, I was thrust into a more dominant position. Or rather, the baby was. And, instinctively, I started putting the baby's needs ahead of his.

I handled it terribly, rudely, insensitively. He felt marginalized and left out. I started weighing in on decision-making about housing and diets and vacations. I inadvertently started taking over our business. Everything started being about babies and kids. And the whole adult world that we had lived in with gusto was too "dark" and "dangerous" now.

In just a few years, we were totally miserable. He hated the direction our life was heading in, and I hated the feeling of being in control but never pleasing him. I felt like I was going to seriously fuck everything up. I loved being a mother, but I also had a rather checkered past, and worried that my "dysfunctional" history was going to stain these poor innocents or cause me to make similarly huge mistakes.

Then, in a period of six months, we lost both my mother and his father. It was strangely liberating. There were suddenly no more obstacles to us being who we are.

We started talking about submission and dominance. I started recognizing it as a piece of my nature. The M/s dynamics that I had always equated with the leather scene suddenly made sense in the context of my own life.

And, well, I've written about my experiences elsewhere.

Having lived with my husband for a long time, having submitted, become more dominant, and then consciously submitted again, I can say without hesitation, that we are both happiest when I submit.

 

[BiBunny]

I like this question, ataxia. It's something I've wanted to ask before, but couldn't figure out how to word it without pissing someone off. So thank you.

 

[eastern sun]

By the way, our oldest child is now thirteen years old, and it's only been in the last summer that my husband has started recognizing that my interests and desires are separate from my son's.

 

[CuteBrat]

i guess i dont really see it as a better/worse thing....its a "proper place" thing for me. i feel like i am in my proper place when i cede control to another. i feel like i am fulfilling my true potential when i am in service to someone who really knows how to use me. maybe thats a self esteem thing...but i think its just how i am SUPPOSED to be. ive been hardwired that way since at least 12.

 

[MisterSir]

Why would a female of healthy self esteem, comparable ability and achievement cede control of things she is equally vested in like how a home is furnished or where joint vacations are taken to her Dominate partner?

Question - I have a piece of string on my desk. What colour is it?
Answer - Come and find out.

The brat thread should have made it pretty clear that trying to put a concrete definition on a word - any word, really - that we use around here is only going to end in tears because dominance and submission and such mean different things to different people. With that in mind, what kind of answer do you expect to get to that? To me, it seems like the submissive woman cedes all that control because she enjoys not being in control, but if I stood up and declared that to be the answer, the can would be open and worms would be everywhere because there's inevitably going to be somebody out there for whom this isn't true.

 

[eastern sun]

hi ataxia,

i realize this question does not pertain to submissives like myself, but it's a great question and one which i've considered when thinking about alllll relationships, even the most vanilla. imo, it's as simple as the fact that two captains cannot steer a ship. or, another cute saying i like, "a snake with two heads will only devour itself." 50/50 in reality simply does not work, it's unproductive and unhealthy. when push comes to shove, there needs to be someone who can and will consistently be the voice of authority.

I agree with this. Most relationships, including my own, involve quite a bit of power shifting. It's so much easier to move forward when the lines of authority are clearly drawn, and not open to perpetual debate.

 

[BiBunny]

Question - I have a piece of string on my desk. What colour is it?
Answer - Come and find out.

The brat thread should have made it pretty clear that trying to put a concrete definition on a word - any word, really - that we use around here is only going to end in tears because dominance and submission and such mean different things to different people. With that in mind, what kind of answer do you expect to get to that? To me, it seems like the submissive woman cedes all that control because she enjoys not being in control, but if I stood up and declared that to be the answer, the can would be open and worms would be everywhere because there's inevitably going to be somebody out there for whom this isn't true.

I think the question is a little deeper than that, actually. I could be wrong, however.

 

[eastern sun]

Question - I have a piece of string on my desk. What colour is it?
Answer - Come and find out.

The brat thread should have made it pretty clear that trying to put a concrete definition on a word - any word, really - that we use around here is only going to end in tears because dominance and submission and such mean different things to different people. With that in mind, what kind of answer do you expect to get to that? To me, it seems like the submissive woman cedes all that control because she enjoys not being in control, but if I stood up and declared that to be the answer, the can would be open and worms would be everywhere because there's inevitably going to be somebody out there for whom this isn't true.

I think we like worms .

 

[ataxia.girl]

i asked this partly because of a post in the other thread from a Dominant explaining what he wants in a D/s relationship and partly from examining my own marriage. In the past year since i have been with Daddy i have become more and more comfortable and assertive about my place in my marriage, a place of increasing equality. my eyes have been opened in a way. i was not able to see before than i often carried more of the housekeeping and child rearing burden (he does help A LOT), helped make and often just made more of the really tough decisions, that i bring in more income (i spend more too ) and yet i still thought i was inferior. i often submitted and served him not because i loved to serve (although sometimes i told myself that) but because i worked from the premise that he was more deserving, that he was the head of the household.

i am uncomfortable being served by my husband even still. i'm often uncomfortable if he even does the dishes after i've spent 2 hours cooking a gormet meal which i do often. We don't eat out very much because he doesn't like restaurants or take out. i pack food from home when we travel so we don't have to stop at fast food places or convenience stores as much. We have only very basic cable because he does not like having the commercialism in our home. When we were first married in fact he would ridicule me for the shows i watched even though he was in the other room simply because he could hear them. A lot of these things have relaxed the past few years. We meet more in the middle but a lot of that has to do with his increasing compassion and understanding that i often truly do irrationally put myself below him and just the simple realization on his part of the contribution i make.

i used to wish he would be more Dominant outside the bedroom but honestly the more self assured i get the less i want this. Rough sex feels just right. i'm not sure how much of this has to do with the unconditional acceptance i feel from Daddy and how much of it is me changing. In other words, if i didn't have my Daddy's approval and love would i remain as self assured in my marriage or would i go back to gloomy but silent servant?

 

[JMohegan]

Question - I have a piece of string on my desk. What colour is it?
Answer - Come and find out.

The brat thread should have made it pretty clear that trying to put a concrete definition on a word - any word, really - that we use around here is only going to end in tears because dominance and submission and such mean different things to different people. With that in mind, what kind of answer do you expect to get to that? To me, it seems like the submissive woman cedes all that control because she enjoys not being in control, but if I stood up and declared that to be the answer, the can would be open and worms would be everywhere because there's inevitably going to be somebody out there for whom this isn't true.

The part in bold is exactly what I was about to write.

This isn't a self esteem thing; it's a personality thing. Some people are just naturally more comfortable when another person is in charge. When deferring to someone whom they respect, they appreciate being given instructions and following through to the best of their ability in a wide variety of situations. They are pleased by pleasing, and the desire to please increases along with their affection for the cause at hand and the one in charge.

These people often make the most valuable employees and community volunteers, because they are natural followers, not leaders. And as anyone who has ever been in charge of other human beings in any capacity will tell you, there is no person more valuable to a leader than the one with the focus, drive, and determination to follow him or her.

 

[ataxia.girl]

hi ataxia,

i realize this question does not pertain to submissives like myself, but it's a great question and one which i've considered when thinking about alllll relationships, even the most vanilla. imo, it's as simple as the fact that two captains cannot steer a ship. or, another cute saying i like, "a snake with two heads will only devour itself." 50/50 in reality simply does not work, it's unproductive and unhealthy. when push comes to shove, there needs to be someone who can and will consistently be the voice of authority.

Hubby and i are friends\equals in the way you might imagine two POW's would be after they escaped. i definitely suffered more damage and so am mentally and emotionally weaker but when something really matters to me he gives in. Its not hard for me to get my way if i really want it anymore a lot of times though we're both so bruised and worn out from life in general we just don't have the energy to fight. The experience of leaving a devastating religion and now dealing with the fallout together has created a bond that i think cannot really be broken.

 

[ataxia.girl]

This isn't a self esteem thing; it's a personality thing. Some people are just naturally more comfortable when another person is in charge. When deferring to someone whom they respect, they appreciate being given instructions and following through to the best of their ability in a wide variety of situations. They are pleased by pleasing, and the desire to please increases along with their affection for the cause at hand and the one in charge.

These people often make the most valuable employees and community volunteers, because they are natural followers, not leaders. And as anyone who has ever been in charge of other human beings in any capacity will tell you, there is no person more valuable to a leader than the one with the focus, drive, and determination to follow him or her.

Daddy says i am a natural follower but i am right too often to let other people lead. Its really frustrating actually. i would love to not have to make decisions in my marriage but he was wrong on two things so critical and life altering that i am just not able to sit back and follow him anymore. Its not his fault really it just is the way it is. i am more inquisitive and less comfortable maintaining the status quo just because that is what has worked in the past.

i'm the same at work too. i'd like to follow but there's too few people who know what the fuck they're doing so... i get to lead. Lucky me.

 

[ecstaticsub]

hi ataxia,

i realize this question does not pertain to submissives like myself, but it's a great question and one which i've considered when thinking about alllll relationships, even the most vanilla. imo, it's as simple as the fact that two captains cannot steer a ship. or, another cute saying i like, "a snake with two heads will only devour itself." 50/50 in reality simply does not work, it's unproductive and unhealthy. when push comes to shove, there needs to be someone who can and will consistently be the voice of authority.

I agree with this. Most relationships, including my own, involve quite a bit of power shifting. It's so much easier to move forward when the lines of authority are clearly drawn, and not open to perpetual debate.

I can't say I agree with this in every case. Neither my husband nor I have the last word for anything. It took about 1 yr of marriage for us to figure out the best way to compromise. After that first year we rarely argued again. Neither of us were in control but we knew each others priorities. He knows when an issue is important to me and he gives in, and I know what issues are most important to him and I give in. Mostly we agree about most everything so there while there may be discussion it is not a debate or argument.