Moderation show-and-tell, anyone?

[Liar]

NOTE: This is not a tread to post general discussion and opinions for or against moderating. The first one who does better block their PM box, for I will retaliate with scat porn.


Ok, that being said... It's been suggested by some that this place needs a moderator. A few have argued for it actively, others have butted in to the discussion to say "yeah, me too". Others have said "no thanks, we don't need no Big Brother here, a little filth is the price we pay for freedom of speech". And some, like myself, are fence-sitting cowards. Which side is the bigger one is irrelevant. Fact is, a not insignificant number of people want it.

So what do they want? I suggest we try to find that out.

Let's leave aside the "too many political thread" issue at the moment (let's face it, some might think political discussion is more relevant and writing related than social threads like "what's your mood?") and focus on more typical topics of moderation. Hate speech, harassment, threats, violation of privacy (posting PMs without consent for instance), beyond-the-pale nastiness, and so on. I don't know exactly what, but I guess those who feel the need for it know what it is they feel needs to be moderated.

So here's what I suggest. An open thread, maybe this one, where those in favor can log what they think should have been deleted/edited/resulted in a warning or bannination. So that the rest of us can get a picture of the precieved problem, and see what we think about it.

Some simple guidelines would be in order:

1. Quote, cut/paste or link directly to the post with the offending content.
2. Explain why it is mod-worthy.
3. State what you think is an appropriate action for a would-be moderator regarding the post/poster.

Replies are of course allowed, but should be kept at a minimum. Agree or disagree with a show-and-tell, and explain what part you disagree with and why.

Comments? Is it possible? Will moderation proponents participate? Would it deteriorate into a pointless shout-fest?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Liar]

I don't want moderation. I'm not rabidly against it though, the same way I'm not rabidly against Country music. If that's what everyone else wants to listen to, fine, change the channel, I'm not leaving the room because of it.

I want to see what those who want to moderate want to moderate. How frequent whatever it is, is. And what damage they think it does. Might be a case of mountains and mole-hills crying wolf over spilled creampie in the sky of mixed metaphors, or something like that. Or it might turn out they've got a case. But I think it would help to actually see what it's all about.

So let's limit this thread to a discussion of the pros and cons of a show-and-tell. Or a show-and-tell. We have a perfectly fine thread for the other discussion already. Don't make me Google for scat.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Safe_Bet]

My name be Kenesha LaTeesha Williams.

I an African-American Girl who just got an award for being the bess speler in class. I got 67 on the speling tess plust 30 point for being black 5 point for not bringin drugs to class 5 point for not bringin guns to class and 5 point for not gettin pregnut during the cemester. It be hard to beat a score of 120.

Da white boy who sit nex to me is McGee from Macon .. He got a 94 on the tess but no extra point on acount of he have da same skin color as the opressirs.

Granny ax me to thank all Dimocrafts and Liberuls for suportin afermative action. You be showin da way to true eqwallity.

I be gittin in medical skool nex an mabe I be yo docter when Barrac take over da healtcare in dis cuntry.

This is an example of racist humor from the "alleged" Humor Thread. It should be deleted or moved to the GB.

Safe bet, Just go screw yourself, which we all know you already do. You are a disgrace to women both gay and straight. God knows why no man would want you. I wouldn't be suprised that any woman would. You are a deceiving, conniving bitch.

I have no respect for you whatsoever. I don't give a shit what you say, what you like, or what you do with your sorry pitiful life. I've never seen so much hatred in one human being.

Go seek help, God knows you need it. You don't like what we post? Tough Shit. I can't stand you, so that makes us even. Why do I even say anything to you. I've been on Lit since 2005, and you are the most pitiful person I have ever come across.

Post all you want, I think others are finally seeing your true colors. I'm through answering your posts. You want me to stop posting humor on this thread. Get enough of your friends to tell me how horrible I am and maybe I'll get tired enough of hearing them and stop posting.

As of right now you are the only female piece of garbage I know on the A/H and it has nothing to do with your sexual choices that I don't care to talk with.

To all other gay people on the threads. I really don't care what your sexual orientation is. I've talked to and respect a number of you. It may be hard to fathom after listening to Safe-Bet bitch but I have a number of gay friends, both male and female. I just don't like anybody's sexual orientation shoved down my thoat and told what I have to accept .

Do I post gay and other ethnic jokes? Yes I do. If I find it funny, I post it. If it offends you, don't read it. Or, post a joke about an old guy, that's what I am. I post a lot about old people. It makes me laugh.

So Bet! I would just as soon hope you would stop posting here, but I know stalkers never listen to common sense and expect you back soon.

This is a personal attack on me after I started posting the following warnings about the content of certain jokes.

WARNING:
This thread contains racist, bigoted, homophobic and/or gender biased humor intended, by the posters, to insult and denigrate others.

They also often attempt to pass themselves off as “Christians.”, but are no more “true” Christians than is Fred Phelps.


If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
John 4:20

Please note the difference. One is a directed personal attack and the other is regarding specific content and generalized actions.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crudebug
My name be Kenesha LaTeesha Williams.

I an African-American Girl who just got an award for being the bess speler in class. I got 67 on the speling tess plust 30 point for being black 5 point for not bringin drugs to class 5 point for not bringin guns to class and 5 point for not gettin pregnut during the cemester. It be hard to beat a score of 120.

Da white boy who sit nex to me is McGee from Macon .. He got a 94 on the tess but no extra point on acount of he have da same skin color as the opressirs.

Granny ax me to thank all Dimocrafts and Liberuls for suportin afermative action. You be showin da way to true eqwallity.

I be gittin in medical skool nex an mabe I be yo docter when Barrac take over da healtcare in dis cuntry.

This is an example of racist humor from the "alleged" Humor Thread. It should be deleted or moved to the GB.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DG Hear
Safe bet, Just go screw yourself, which we all know you already do. You are a disgrace to women both gay and straight. God knows why no man would want you. I wouldn't be suprised that any woman would. You are a deceiving, conniving bitch.

I have no respect for you whatsoever. I don't give a shit what you say, what you like, or what you do with your sorry pitiful life. I've never seen so much hatred in one human being.

Go seek help, God knows you need it. You don't like what we post? Tough Shit. I can't stand you, so that makes us even. Why do I even say anything to you. I've been on Lit since 2005, and you are the most pitiful person I have ever come across.

Post all you want, I think others are finally seeing your true colors. I'm through answering your posts. You want me to stop posting humor on this thread. Get enough of your friends to tell me how horrible I am and maybe I'll get tired enough of hearing them and stop posting.

As of right now you are the only female piece of garbage I know on the A/H and it has nothing to do with your sexual choices that I don't care to talk with.

To all other gay people on the threads. I really don't care what your sexual orientation is. I've talked to and respect a number of you. It may be hard to fathom after listening to Safe-Bet bitch but I have a number of gay friends, both male and female. I just don't like anybody's sexual orientation shoved down my thoat and told what I have to accept .

Do I post gay and other ethnic jokes? Yes I do. If I find it funny, I post it. If it offends you, don't read it. Or, post a joke about an old guy, that's what I am. I post a lot about old people. It makes me laugh.

So Bet! I would just as soon hope you would stop posting here, but I know stalkers never listen to common sense and expect you back soon.




This is a personal attack on me after I started posting the following warnings about the content of certain jokes.

Quote:
WARNING:
This thread contains racist, bigoted, homophobic and/or gender biased humor intended, by the posters, to insult and denigrate others.

They also often attempt to pass themselves off as “Christians.”, but are no more “true” Christians than is Fred Phelps.


If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
John 4:20

Please note the difference. One is a directed personal attack and the other is regarding specific content and generalized actions.
__________________
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[Recidiva]

Edited to avoid scat porn. Self moderation for self preservation.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Recidiva]

Okay, I think I get it better now. Sorry for the edited post, I wanted to reread the opening post and get a grip on what's being asked here.

I think I covered this in an earlier discussion, but I'm going to try to read and learn here.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have twenty people on ignore, mostly because they only start political threads. But some of them are for the sake of pretending they haven't opened their foul mouths; scouries, jbj, amicus, bfw in particular. I don't particularly want to go wade in the filth.

But here is an easy one; try putting the key words
sarah stella

into advanced search, and

jamesbjohnson

into user's name, at the bottom of the page choose "show results as posts" click "search"

You will find plenty of fecal matter there.

I didn't read much of it. You may if you like.

 

[Weird Harold]

We already have all of the moderation required:

Safe_Bet
This message is hidden because Safe_Bet is on your ignore list.

 

[Safe_Bet]

WTF???? Is there a point of copying my entire post and not making a comment???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crudebug
My name be Kenesha LaTeesha Williams. <snip> Please note the difference. One is a directed personal attack and the other is regarding specific content and generalized actions.

[/QUOTE]

 

[CharleyH]

I want to see what those who want to moderate want to moderate. How frequent whatever it is, is. And what damage they think it does. Might be a case of mountains and mole-hills crying wolf over spilled creampie in the sky of mixed metaphors, or something like that. Or it might turn out they've got a case. But I think it would help to actually see what it's all about.

So let's limit this thread to a discussion of the pros and cons of a show-and-tell. Or a show-and-tell. We have a perfectly fine thread for the other discussion already. Don't make me Google for scat.

Well, I do not WANT to moderate, but I think that the AH can be moderated without a minimum of damage to free speech. I don't like political threads and I'd rather see them gone, but the fact is that a hangout is like graffiti - Some shit is good and some sucks, and we still have to look at it and deal with it. In my ideal, the purpose of AH moderation is to shuffle posts, similar to the Poetry board - shuffle banter off of one discussion and into another. Also, as much as I am in favour of free speech, I think there must be something we can do about offensive posts. What purpose do posts like 'you faggot, you nigger, you tranny, you asshole, you moron' serve? They don't serve me unless we are talking in respect to story and fantasy. AH moderation is that simple to me.

 

[sadangel]

You asked for examples. I hate to quote them but will and try to say which thread they came from. I will bold the parts that I specifically consider to be racist. Both were reported, for ONLY the racists remarks, not for the opinions otherwise expressed.

jbj--Honor killing in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Ah, Ragheads.

And what were you expecting?

When Carebears adopt feral cats and bring them into their homes, the cats destroy the house and piss all over everything.

I suspect LIAR is hot for it. The Ragheads prob'ly think we're not worth wasting religion on. But LIAR rolls his eyes, licks his lips, and rubs his belly.

For those who do not understand, using this term to describe those of Arabic (Middle Eastern Descent) is the same as calling some one who is of African American Descent, a N*****. I won't tolerate it in real life nor on the Internet when there is a way of not having to see (hear) it. I could ignore, but what does ignoring hate speech and racists remarks get us? It means we have become conditioned to accept and to silently condone it. I won't do that.

As I said they are racist remarks and therefore mod worthy. I would like to see the posts edited by either the original poster (Like that will happen) or to be edited by a mod to remove the offending word(s) from the post, with a brief explanation such as (edited to remove offensive, or inflammatory, rude or racists remarks--which ever fits the case). The opinions can stand alone without such words being used. That's what I would like to see done. Not to curtail free speech, but to remove words that are nothing but fodder for more hate speech or just plain nastiness. Racist, homophobic, even heterophobic remarks don't have a place anywhere in my opinion. Express you opinion, leave the extra crap out.

On my boards, after 2 written warnings (ie...the edited post and why edited was regarded as a written warning) in public, a note was added to the edited post that the next one would result in a 3 day suspension, any after that would result in a 7 day suspension, then a 2 week suspension and after that, a permanent ban. I tried to give the benefit of the doubt when possible. Only one person ever got the permanent ban. Most quit the offending posts after a 3 day suspension.

 

[Stella_Omega]

We already have all of the moderation required:

No.

That's the kind of "moderation" children have; the right to pretend the bully never hurt you, the bully isn't going to hurt someone else.

To pretend is to lie.

We are adults. We have the ability to know when we are being bullied, and the right to do something about it.

 

[Verdad]

No Fucking Censorship

You asked for examples. I hate to quote them but will and try to say which thread they came from. I will bold the parts that I specifically consider to be racist. Both were reported, for ONLY the racists remarks, not for the opinions otherwise expressed.

You've forgotten to report other 167 instances of the word 'raghead' appearing on the Lit boards on a quick search. There are tons of books and articles around the world, too, waiting to be purged. I greatly fear a time when people like you would have the power over the rest of us.

 

[Verdad]

Well, I do not WANT to moderate, but I think that the AH can be moderated without a minimum of damage to free speech. I don't like political threads and I'd rather see them gone, but the fact is that a hangout is like graffiti - Some shit is good and some sucks, and we still have to look at it and deal with it. In my ideal, the purpose of AH moderation is to shuffle posts, similar to the Poetry board - shuffle banter off of one discussion and into another. Also, as much as I am in favour of free speech, I think there must be something we can do about offensive posts. What purpose do posts like 'you faggot, you nigger, you tranny, you asshole, you moron' serve? They don't serve me unless we are talking in respect to story and fantasy. AH moderation is that simple to me.

Respectfully, I do not agree with you one bit. AH is not a topical forum.

At any given moment, there are at least ten game threads on the front page. Objectively, they should go to The Playground.

At any given moment, there's at least one thread campaigning GLBT issues. Objectively, that should go to the GLBT board.

The so-called political threads—and I do wonder what isn't political—should go to GB, I presume, as should all the other random items.

The few writing discussions remaining could just as well be held at the SDC or Story Feedback, and even if they remained at the AH, it would make it a horribly boring place, most so, I suspect, for writers.

In short, there's no objective reason for the AH to exist, and therefore, no objective criteria for its moderation.

If we don't stop spending all our time on what others post and inventing reasons for who or what doesn't belong here and why, we're going to lock ourselves in a permanent Mexican standoff where no one will feel at ease saying a goddamned word.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You've forgotten to report other 167 instances of the word 'raghead' appearing on the Lit boards on a quick search. There are tons of books and articles around the world, too, waiting to be purged. I greatly fear a time when people like you would have the power over the rest of us.

I would gladly report every damn one of those usages-- although some of them have been in discussions about the word itself and they way it demeans so many people.

We can't do much about the tons of books and articles. We can do something about the ugliness here.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Well, I do not WANT to moderate, but I think that the AH can be moderated without a minimum of damage to free speech. I don't like political threads and I'd rather see them gone, but the fact is that a hangout is like graffiti - Some shit is good and some sucks, and we still have to look at it and deal with it. In my ideal, the purpose of AH moderation is to shuffle posts, similar to the Poetry board - shuffle banter off of one discussion and into another. Also, as much as I am in favour of free speech, I think there must be something we can do about offensive posts. What purpose do posts like 'you faggot, you nigger, you tranny, you asshole, you moron' serve? They don't serve me unless we are talking in respect to story and fantasy. AH moderation is that simple to me.

EXACTLY. I spend time in the PF&D forum and their moderation works pretty well. If you call somebody an asshole during a heated exchange ABOUT THE SUBJECT, your post won't get deleted, but if you keep at it or if you start making personal attacks directly against somebody, bu-bye...

 

[sadangel]

I would gladly report every damn one of those usages-- although some of them have been in discussions about the word itself and they way it demeans so many people.

We can't do much about the tons of books and articles. We can do something about the ugliness here.

This. Take care of what is here, from this point on. We just can't have a moderator go back to "fix" all the posts. We can't do anything much about books and articles. This is about HERE at AH. I do what I can where. I'm sorry that you disagree Verdad. I just won't stand by and listen or read it when there isn't a reason to do so. The opinions can be expressed without resorting to hateful, racist, bigoted remarks. Express the opinion, not the hate.

 

[CharleyH]

Respectfully, I do not agree with you one bit. AH is not a topical forum.

At any given moment, there are at least ten game threads on the front page. Objectively, they should go to The Playground.

At any given moment, there's at least one thread campaigning GLBT issues. Objectively, that should go to the GLBT board.

The so-called political threads—and I do wonder what isn't political—should go to GB, I presume, as should all the other random items.

The few writing discussions remaining could just as well be held at the SDC or Story Feedback, and even if they remained at the AH, it would make it a horribly boring place, most so, I suspect, for writers.

In short, there's no objective reason for the AH to exist, and therefore, no objective criteria for its moderation.

If we don't stop spending all our time on what others post and inventing reasons for who or what doesn't belong here and why, we're going to lock ourselves in a permanent Mexican standoff where no one will feel at ease saying a goddamned word.

I don't mind if you don't agree with me, Verdad, in fact, I love it. Ultimately, I am asking whether or not this a forum of insults or a forum of discussion? I would prefer a forum of discussion. How say you?

 

[Recidiva]

I don't mind if you don't agree with me, Verdad, in fact, I love it. Ultimately, I am asking whether or not this a forum of insults or a forum of discussion? I would prefer a forum of discussion. How say you?

Charley never insults anyone.

 

[CharleyH]

Charley never insults anyone.

Yeah, that's it - LOL. Seriously, though, there is a difference between telling someone their story sucks ass, or that they do, and calling someone a nigger or a fag, dyke or a worthtless tranny. Even if we don't like one another's personas, ideals or sexuality, it is possible to get along. Moderation is about helping people get along, no?

 

[Stella_Omega]

[/B]

This. Take care of what is here, from this point on. We just can't have a moderator go back to "fix" all the posts. We can't do anything much about books and articles. This is about HERE at AH. I do what I can where. I'm sorry that you disagree Verdad. I just won't stand by and listen or read it when there isn't a reason to do so. The opinions can be expressed without resorting to hateful, racist, bigoted remarks. Express the opinion, not the hate.

We are after all, writers.

I can choose to engage or ignore opinions I disagree with, -- even bigoted opinions. Inflammatory remarks, insults out of context, unmitigated hatefulness should be flushed down the toilet like the foul shit that it is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, that's it - LOL. Seriously, though, there is a difference between telling someone their story sucks ass, or that they do, and calling someone a nigger.

quite so-- the first is critiquing a story the second describing a behavior. The third is hate speech.