The Official Star Wars Thread!

[Wonderer67]

I am kinda done with it now, I am a fan, a big fan of the original 3 but then came along this bullshit about Han and Greedo who shot first the whole story being a Darth Vader redemption arc and fans arguing over what a parsec actually is not to mention Lucas going over and over the movies editing them to make them “better”. I’ll watch the theatre release of the originals and I’m happy to leave it at that

I will say I have very fond memories of them as a teenager.

They were fun and changed everything.

 

[SimonDoom]

Let’s not go that far, this is about the time that Lucas switched from making his vision of a space Opera to purely making money. Ewoks were the start of that path and therefore I hold them fully accountable. I am happy that in some appendices somewhere I remember reading that they were all wiped out. The prequels to me were so bad I still haven’t seen them fully to this day and the last 3 I watched clawing at my eyes in disbelief they managed to destroy the last 40years of movie magic they had created. I grant that Daisy Ridley had potential as a new protagonist, shame the writing and story didn’t support her efforts.

Somebody I see eye to eye with. The bit about the Ewoks is a bit harsh, but, really, would anybody mourn for long if a meteor took out Endor?

 

[StillStunned]

Somebody I see eye to eye with. The bit about the Ewoks is a bit harsh, but, really, would anybody mourn for long if a meteor took out Endor?

"A third Death Star has been built. To do what the Emperor should have done all those years ago: turn it on Endor!"

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There's a lot of unwarranted hate towards the prequels, in my opinion. Sure, Episode I was cringe, even though the jedi fight scenes were amazing. But Episode II and especially Episode III, with all their flaws and Hayden Christensen's terrible acting, were good movies, worthy of the franchise.
Comparing everything only with Episode V is a poor choice.

 

[Bamagan]

Somebody I see eye to eye with. The bit about the Ewoks is a bit harsh, but, really, would anybody mourn for long if a meteor took out Endor?

"A third Death Star has been built. To do what the Emperor should have done all those years ago: turn it on Endor!"

There's a high probability that the second Death Star did the job. Debris from its destruction would have started plunging into the atmosphere of the moon within days, perhaps even hours in the case of pieces propelled at high velocity by the explosion. I would expect there to be many toxic and radioactive substances within the wreckage, and there was so much of it that the chances of it causing an ecological disaster are high. There's also a strong likelihood that it would have caused fires when it landed, and biomes similar to the one depicted on screen are generally not very fire-resistant. Given the time constraints, how remote the system was supposed to be, the size of the debris field, and the size of the fleet assaulting it, it's quite unlikely that the Rebels could have prevented catastrophic bombardment.
In canon, the Rebels were somehow able to provide enough assistance to save the planet from ecological destruction. If it's any consolation, though, hunters raiding the planet to make Ewok jerky is also canon.

 

[Nynah]

Hayden Christensen's terrible acting

I think he gets a particularly bad rap, but needlessly so. The prequels were directed by Lucas himself and while it can be argued he's some sort of visionary world-builder, he's kinda shit at actually directing. He made Natalie Portman (who would go on to win an Academy Award later in her career) look particularly wooden so Hayden had the triple whammy of dealing with the same awful director and being a relative newcomer to Hollywood AND acting in one of the biggest media franchises to ever exist. If you watch the Obi-Wan and Ahsoka streaming series, he has significant screen time in those and you can see that he's a much more natural and fluid actor when not constrained by ham-fisted dialogue and terrible directing.

Ewoks were the start of that path and therefore I hold them fully accountable. I am happy that in some appendices somewhere I remember reading that they were all wiped out.

Return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie and I was fine with the Ewoks involvement; Lucas' storytelling was never particularly deep so it's the whole "power of friendship and home-field advantage defeats technologically advanced evil empire" trope that's been done many a time. At least it was fun.

And canonically, the Ewoks were saved by the Rebels setting up shields and tractor beams before the second Death Star explodes, which makes sense if you consider that the final scenes of RotJ take place on Endor and it seems pretty much intact. They even referenced it in Rise of Skywalker (which is a terrible film to be sure but still canon nonetheless), stating that most of the Death Star II's debris went elsewhere in the Endor system, including a different moon, Kef Bir, where parts of the RoS story take place.

 

[ScorpioRising71]

I think he gets a particularly bad rap, but needlessly so. The prequels were directed by Lucas himself and while it can be argued he's some sort of visionary world-builder, he's kinda shit at actually directing. He made Natalie Portman (who would go on to win an Academy Award later in her career) look particularly wooden so Hayden had the triple whammy of dealing with the same awful director and being a relative newcomer to Hollywood AND acting in one of the biggest media franchises to ever exist. If you watch the Obi-Wan and Ahsoka streaming series, he has significant screen time in those and you can see that he's a much more natural and fluid actor when not constrained by ham-fisted dialogue and terrible directing.


Return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie and I was fine with the Ewoks involvement; Lucas' storytelling was never particularly deep so it's the whole "power of friendship and home-field advantage defeats technologically advanced evil empire" trope that's been done many a time. At least it was fun.

And canonically, the Ewoks were saved by the Rebels setting up shields and tractor beams before the second Death Star explodes, which makes sense if you consider that the final scenes of RotJ take place on Endor and it seems pretty much intact. They even referenced it in Rise of Skywalker (which is a terrible film to be sure but still canon nonetheless), stating that most of the Death Star II's debris went elsewhere in the Endor system, including a different moon, Kef Bir, where parts of the RoS story take place.

Well that’s disappointing, and you’re right, Natalie Portman is an excellent actor and Hayden was given a near impossible task. My issue is not with them, or the directing though, I can forgive that if the characters are absorbing but it was the terrible storyline and dialogue that killed it for me. Daisy is also an excellent actor, and I pray that her new Star Wars movie does well but I fear the toxicity of the fan base now will kill it the moment the first trailer airs.

 

[SimonDoom]

My Star Wars movie ranking (not that anybody asked for this):

I'm not including any cartoons, games, TV shows, etc. Just the feature length films I've seen.

1. Star Wars (New Hope). Empire is a more mature and intelligent movie but there's nothin' like the first time. It was the second-most memorable moviegoing experience of my life after Jaws.
2. Empire Strikes Back. A sequel that was much better than anybody could have expected it to be.
3. Rogue One. This was surprisingly good. It was a great idea for a movie and it had a bunch of good actors, and a little humor. I liked the robot. The final scene where they barely get away from Vader was suspenseful and well done even though we knew the outcome.
4. Return of the Jedi. Yeah, the Ewoks are silly and there mostly to sell merchandise. But it was a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy. It had humor, it had a good climactic scene, and of course Leia in her slave outfit.
5. Force Awakens. Not terrible. Not original or interesting, but it had some promise and introduced new characters with potential and talented actors to play them.
6. Revenge of the Sith. Not good, but better than the other prequels. The one unifying good thing of the prequel trilogy was Ewan McGregor as the young Obi Wan. I think he's always good.
7. Solo. I honestly don't remember anything about this movie, but I don't recall being appalled by it.
8. Phantom Menace. I remember thinking, 5 minutes into this movie, "My God, this sucks." Jar Jar is terrible, of course. I also think the movie screwed up making Anakin a little kid rather than a moody teenager closer to Padme's age. Way too much CGI. It looks like a cartoon.
9. Attack of the Clones. The only thing I remember about this movie is Natalie Portman's midriff in the arena fight scene. George Lucas's faint effort to bring a little sexiness into what was otherwise another boring CGI mess.
10. Last Jedi. I lost count of the ways I disliked this movie. Leia in space. That says it all. What a narrative mess. A totally botched attempt to reset some of the Star Wars canon.
11. Rise of Skywalker. This movie answered the question, "Can we make a movie that's worse than Last Jedi?" with a hearty "yes!"

 

[SimonDoom]

I think he gets a particularly bad rap, but needlessly so. The prequels were directed by Lucas himself and while it can be argued he's some sort of visionary world-builder, he's kinda shit at actually directing. He made Natalie Portman (who would go on to win an Academy Award later in her career) look particularly wooden so Hayden had the triple whammy of dealing with the same awful director and being a relative newcomer to Hollywood AND acting in one of the biggest media franchises to ever exist. If you watch the Obi-Wan and Ahsoka streaming series, he has significant screen time in those and you can see that he's a much more natural and fluid actor when not constrained by ham-fisted dialogue and terrible directing.

This is all fair. An actor can only do so much with terrible writing. I think Natalie Portman is a very good actress, and I thought she was awful in the prequel trilogy, especially in the scenes with Anakin. Possibly the worst romance in movie history.

 

[SimonDoom]

There's a high probability that the second Death Star did the job. Debris from its destruction would have started plunging into the atmosphere of the moon within days, perhaps even hours in the case of pieces propelled at high velocity by the explosion. I would expect there to be many toxic and radioactive substances within the wreckage, and there was so much of it that the chances of it causing an ecological disaster are high. There's also a strong likelihood that it would have caused fires when it landed, and biomes similar to the one depicted on screen are generally not very fire-resistant. Given the time constraints, how remote the system was supposed to be, the size of the debris field, and the size of the fleet assaulting it, it's quite unlikely that the Rebels could have prevented catastrophic bombardment.
In canon, the Rebels were somehow able to provide enough assistance to save the planet from ecological destruction. If it's any consolation, though, hunters raiding the planet to make Ewok jerky is also canon.

I've said this before.

I SO appreciate the way you think.

 

[AngieGZC]

I think he gets a particularly bad rap, but needlessly so. The prequels were directed by Lucas himself and while it can be argued he's some sort of visionary world-builder, he's kinda shit at actually directing. He made Natalie Portman (who would go on to win an Academy Award later in her career) look particularly wooden so Hayden had the triple whammy of dealing with the same awful director and being a relative newcomer to Hollywood AND acting in one of the biggest media franchises to ever exist. If you watch the Obi-Wan and Ahsoka streaming series, he has significant screen time in those and you can see that he's a much more natural and fluid actor when not constrained by ham-fisted dialogue and terrible directing.


Return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie and I was fine with the Ewoks involvement; Lucas' storytelling was never particularly deep so it's the whole "power of friendship and home-field advantage defeats technologically advanced evil empire" trope that's been done many a time. At least it was fun.

And canonically, the Ewoks were saved by the Rebels setting up shields and tractor beams before the second Death Star explodes, which makes sense if you consider that the final scenes of RotJ take place on Endor and it seems pretty much intact. They even referenced it in Rise of Skywalker (which is a terrible film to be sure but still canon nonetheless), stating that most of the Death Star II's debris went elsewhere in the Endor system, including a different moon, Kef Bir, where parts of the RoS story take place.

There is a lot here but I would agree with this ... I also enjoyed the Ewoks but probably for much different reasons haha... I don't know growing up on a farm I have always enjoyed cute furry animals haha.... I mean imagine having a pet Ewoks or Magwi haha....

However, yeah I don't think the movie really ruined anything lore wise nor did it harm the movie. I think it just gets a bad rap because back then stuff like muppets etc... was still very much associated as a child's movie.

Like I said though, I enjoyed it but then again I was always mad there was no Zaalbar romance option

 

[SimonDoom]

.. I don't know growing up on a farm I have always enjoyed cute furry animals haha....

Be careful. There are site content limitation at work here.

 

[Nynah]

9. Attack of the Clones. The only thing I remember about this movie is Natalie Portman's midriff in the arena fight scene.

It wasn't all bad. It gave me one of my favorite meme formats of all time.

 

[AngieGZC]

Be careful. There are site content limitation at work here.

t's not what you are thinking...

 

[CyranoJ]

My Star Wars movie ranking (not that anybody asked for this):

I'm not including any cartoons, games, TV shows, etc. Just the feature length films I've seen.

[snip]

Hey, ranking stuff is always a fun game. I'll play. Movies first.

STAR WARS MOVIES:

1. Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. As a movie in general rather than as a "Star Wars" movie, it's simply the best of the movies.
2. Star Wars: A New Hope. Grand nostalgic fun and of course, the movie that started it all. In retrospect the story is pretty thin; what's really noteworthy is the movie's impact on artwork and effects, and on the subsequent rise of cinematic space opera of which its franchise would be the flagship. I loved it as a kid but from an adult perspective I can't give it the top spot, particularly as a revision-obsessed Lucas gradually vandalizes successive versions of it.
3. Star Wars: Return of the Jedi. Even as a kid, the Ewoks made me wince: the costumes in particular seemed astonishingly low-budget for the movie franchise that revolutionized VFX. But I still love the movie as a whole, and it introduced us to Ian McDiarmid's wonderfully hammy Emperor, whose impression on the franchise will resonate down the decades for both good and ill.
4. Star Wars: The Last Jedi. I don't actually disagree with Simon about this being a narrative mess. I just give it a lot more points for the verve of its execution, for its willingness to explore ideas that the franchise shied away from after ESB -- especially in its willingness to open up the story to being about something other than effectively a fantasy Jedi/Sith dynasty -- and for its sense of fun. It was messy, but it had energy and actual creative ambition in a way the Star Wars movies had largely stopped having, and that goes a long way. (The title is odd, though, as it doesn't really connect with the story; all of the sequel movies have this quality of seemingly having been named by madlib.)
5. Rogue One: A Star Wars Story. Kind of The Dirty Dozen meets Star Wars. Pretty good as that concept goes.
6. Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith. Not great, but as close to good as the prequel movies got. Like all of the prequel movies, it was built around ideas that look good on paper but, in many ways, don't come across all that well under Lucas' direction. (Hence the infamously misjudged "NOOOO!" scene that mars its climactic delivery of Darth Vader's origin.) Also contained some cracking material, though, and did a solid job of striking a tonal balance between the lighthearted adventure story the protagonists think they're living vs. the political tragedy that's actually unfolding. It had by far the best hits-to-misses ratio of any prequel movie, and the long-anticipated duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin doesn't disappoint.
7. Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Rollicking fun -- introducing some vibrant new characters -- but way too nostalgia-dependent in ways that disagreeably limit the OG characters and constrain what should feel like a much larger universe. Also commits the cardinal sin of casting Lupita Nyong'o -- one of the most beautiful women of all time, full stop -- and then burying her under digital effects.
8. Solo: A Star Wars Story. A prequel movie whose delivery of Han Solo's story is largely flat-footed and spends an inordinate amount of time "answering" questions that nobody was asking. If you were a nerd who was obsessed with squaring up that "Kessel Run in twelve parsecs" line from ANH, this was the movie for you... and it turns out that this isn't a massive niche. Otherwise, it wasn't so much bad as just entirely missable.
9. Star Wars: Attack of the Clones. Like all of the prequels, full of good-on-paper ideas, but it has the second-worst hits-to-misses ratio of that trilogy, hindered by awful pacing and full of wooden performances. It seems fundamentally torn, like so much Star Wars content, on the question of whether it's safe to let the content "grow up" or not, which is my theory on why the romantic subplot -- on which so much depends -- is so shitty. Count Dooku is a bright spot despite his aggressively stupid name, though, and the attack on Geonosis is a pretty solid action set-piece (bracketing out some truly dreadful attempts at kid-focused comic relief along the way).
10. The Clone Wars. Not noteworthy. The animation wasn't great, the dialogue and the plot were worse, and overall, it was forgettable. What's surprising is that the subsequent show, which this was obviously plugging, went on to become a critical darling; you wouldn't have known it to see this movie.
11. Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. Again, lots of good ideas embedded in the script, but this is the most spectacular failure of an attempt to pay those ideas off. Primarily because it's unequivocally a kid's movie, and is proof that by this point in his career, Lucas had been outclassed as a children's content creator by far wittier and less out-of-touch shops like Pixar. Its clunky pacing, illogical plot and setting choices, and groan-worthy attempts to dress up ethnic stereotypes in digital drag all earned it plenty of well-deserved dragging, and the often-advanced excuse of its being made for kids is frankly an insult to kids. Sorry, Gen Z Star Wars kids, that you're stuck defending this shit; you deserved better. (Still: that lightsaber duel, though. You know the one. Game-changing.)
12. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. Say what you will about TPM: it actually had a creative vision behind it. The Rise of Skywalker is so incoherent as to barely qualify as a movie at all, due to a troubled and chaotic production that amounted to a scattershot attempt by the studio to dish up fan-service far and wide, and particularly for the nutcase incel portion of the fanbase that shrilly hated that women and minorities got to exist and do things in the previous film. A boring and pointless assault on the senses with virtually no redeeming qualities, it places a very long way behind even the worst of the prequels.

There were a few made-for-TV movies, too, but I haven't seen The Holiday Special and while I did see the Ewok movies, I can't remember anything about them.

 

[SimonDoom]

STAR WARS MOVIES:

1. (Still: that lightsaber duel, though. You know the one. Game-changing.)

I know what you're saying, but CGI-based combat scenes just don't do it for me. I'm always aware that they are fake.

The best sword battle I've ever seen in a movie was the one between the characters played by Liam Neeson and Tim Roth at the end of the film Robroy. You could feel every blow, and it was so satisfying.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I loved the sword fights in the two 70s films, The Three/Four Musketeers. And of course, Roquell Welch was the master comedienne.

 

[Nynah]

I know what you're saying, but CGI-based combat scenes just don't do it for me. I'm always aware that they are fake.

The only thing CGI was the addition of lightsaber effects and the laser walls for The Duel of the Fates. Everything else was rehearsed choreography and standard movie-making practical effects from what I can tell, Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson actually did a lot of it themselves, working with Ray Park. There's an article here about it and plenty of videos online as well. I know the fight in RotS*with Yoda vs. Palpatine was mostly CGI but Duel of the Fates was mostly just really cool dancing from the three actors and really only fake in the sense that it's not an actual fight, but then again, no movie fight really is so, .

*EDIT: Correcting myself here; crossed up the acronyms. AotC has Anakin & Obi-Wan vs. Dooku Part 1, not Yoda vs. Palpatine. I assume this fight, especially with Christopher Lee's actual fencing prowess (at least in the scenes he was able to participate in, given his advanced age at the time), was done with minimal CGI.

 

[CyranoJ]

I know what you're saying, but CGI-based combat scenes just don't do it for me. I'm always aware that they are fake.

The best sword battle I've ever seen in a movie was the one between the characters played by Liam Neeson and Tim Roth at the end of the film Robroy. You could feel every blow, and it was so satisfying.

I would mostly compare Star Wars lightsaber battles to other Star Wars lightsaber battles, not to action scenes in movies more generally. What makes the TPM "Duel of the Fates" stand out is that it elevates its subgenre considerably.

I'm not a stickler for realism in movie sword duels, that said. Love me some wuxia nonsense, for example -- the "every weapon in an arsenal against the Green Destiny" fight in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is one of my personal faves -- although I'm also game for something more grounded like the sword battles in the classic Sword of Doom. But if you love that fight in Rob Roy, I would especially recommend checking out The Duellists.

 

[ScorpioRising71]

I know what you're saying, but CGI-based combat scenes just don't do it for me. I'm always aware that they are fake.

The best sword battle I've ever seen in a movie was the one between the characters played by Liam Neeson and Tim Roth at the end of the film Robroy. You could feel every blow, and it was so satisfying.

The Duellists with Harvey Keitel and Keith Carradine and The King with Timothy Chalomet both historically accurate and well done examples of swordplay…of course, you also can’t go past the excellent duel in The Princess bride between Elwes and Patinkin

 

[EmilyMiller]

I grant that Daisy Ridley had potential as a new protagonist, shame the writing and story didn’t support her efforts.

I adore both Rey and Daisy. I thought Rey and Finn’s banter in TFA was one of its strengths. Then Johnson ripped that dynamic up for God knows what reason, and decided to retcon the fuck out of everything. I want good guys and bad guys, not a treatise on the evils of the military-industrial complex.

And, it’s was cool to see Ridely grow as an actor. But the scripts got worse and worse. TROS was dross. Though I did steal the “I am all the Sith” / “And I am all the Jedi” for my co-written story with @PennyThompson - the movie was a mess.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Tangentially, I watched season three of Mando again recently. How masochistic am I? But it was much better that I recalled, and improved vastly by skipping The Convert, and Guns For Hire. With those two aberrations missing, it was almost watchable.

I hope the movie is better. But who knows with Disney and their scripting by focus group approach.

I’ve not even watched Andor 2 as yet, and I thought season one was compelling and well-written.

 

[SimonDoom]

I thought Rey and Finn’s banter in TFA was one of its strengths.

One of the keys to good movies is good relationships. The original trilogy introduced us one by one to great characters and they all had good, dramatic, and often funny relationships with each other that deepened as the series went on. The sequel trilogy, especially in Force Awakens, teased us with relationships, like between Rey and Finn, and then did nothing with them. Finn was a totally wasted character.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Finn was a totally wasted character.

Agree totally. Boyega is an excellent actor and they gave him nothing to do.

 

[SimonDoom]

Agree totally. Boyega is an excellent actor and they gave him nothing to do.

Ever see Attack the Block? He was the star of that. A weird, daffy alien invasion movie that worked for whatever reason. Boyega was very young in that but you could tell he had charisma as an actor.