Can you write more than sex?

[CharleyH]

Some writers believe that wherever their characters end up is good enough for a sex scene or even a whole scene. They believe that location is of no consequence, even if they describe it in detail. I come from a film and art background and so I feel that any mise-en-scene elements described in a story are significant. If they are not, then they should not be described because such descriptions without thought are useless to the narrative and make for bad story.

What is your opinion on the significance of location to story and/or about the significance of mise-en-scene in story?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

From what I've read, most of the writer's here havent mastered the sex part yet.

 

[matriarch]

Some writers believe that wherever their characters end up is good enough for a sex scene or even a whole scene. They believe that location is of no consequence, even if they describe it in detail. I come from a film and art background and so I feel that any mise-en-scene elements described in a story are significant. If they are not, then they should not be described because such descriptions without thought are useless to the narrative and make for bad story.

What is your opinion on the significance of location to story and/or about the significance of mise-en-scene in story?

I couldn't agree more......location, location, location..........the first story I ever posted here on Lit, Summer Outing, was set in the English country side, on a summer day, and it was imperative to set the scene before getting to the nitty gritty. I was delighted therefore, when the first feedback I ever got was to compliment me on the descriptive passages.......made it all worthwhile.

I have set some stories, in a very limited locale, but that was because there was no need for any further detail. That was where the story was set. I've set one in a college library, one in a hotel, and one at a folk festival bounded by woods.....all essential details to the plot.

A story has to be believable, even fiction - in fact, especially fiction. You have to make the setting realistic, believable, so that the reader can put themselves there.

 

[CharleyH]

From what I've read, most of the writer's here havent mastered the sex part yet.

Chuckles ...
Go on ...

 

[CharleyH]

delete

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Well, duh! It definitely matters where things happen and you have to at least allude to the characters' surroundings. I think part of the success of several of my contest entries is that I put very definite characters in settings that they belong in. If the story is set on a small mid-western college campus, the characters need to be academics. If the characters are veddy, veddy British countryfolk, the reader needs to know what part of the sceptered isle they're on. How hard that the idea be?

 

[CharleyH]

I couldn't agree more......location, location, location..........the first story I ever posted here on Lit, Summer Outing, was set in the English country side, on a summer day, and it was imperative to set the scene before getting to the nitty gritty. I was delighted therefore, when the first feedback I ever got was to compliment me on the descriptive passages.......made it all worthwhile.

I have set some stories, in a very limited locale, but that was because there was no need for any further detail. That was where the story was set. I've set one in a college library, one in a hotel, and one at a folk festival bounded by woods.....all essential details to the plot.

A story has to be believable, even fiction - in fact, especially fiction. You have to make the setting realistic, believable, so that the reader can put themselves there.

I love this, go on!

 

[CharleyH]

Well, duh! It definitely matters where things happen and you have to at least allude to the characters' surroundings. I think part of the success of several of my contest entries is that I put very definite characters in settings that they belong in. If the story is set on a small mid-western college campus, the characters need to be academics. If the characters are veddy, veddy British countryfolk, the reader needs to know what part of the sceptered isle they're on. How hard that the idea be?

Not hard to you or me as writers.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

I think it depends on the story. Two people just enjoying each other, I doubt the characters are aware of what's around them much less the readers. If it leads to the scene, then yes of course. A backroom for something gritty and dirty, 5 star hotel for more elegant but fleeting, beach, brothel, what have you but if and only if it adds to the moment.

I know there are pieces of theater done with bare stages and spot lighting because the scenery is not needed at all. So let it be with literature.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If the subject of the story is sex, and the theme of the story is self-discovery-- nope, the scenery is probably the least important thing, and a terrible distraction. The only thing that's important about the setting in such cases is the characters' reactions to it.

I'm rarely interested in scenery unless the setting is a protagonist in its own right, and sometimes of course, it is...

 

[sr71plt]

Location and storyline (and timeframe) are highly significant to nearly all of my stories (although, since I try to write across the board, some of my stories are straight strokers). Atmospherics are very important to me.

Probably the whole reason I drifted into writing erotica (in addition to mainline writing) is that I'd read nonerotic novels (and see movies) that begged to go naturally into the heavy sex and, on the flip side, pornography that begged for the sex to be just a major element of something with a good storyline, scene, and characterizations, and I saw nothing combining the best of both of these--which is usually what I'm trying to do with my erotica. Reaching for this is my reward for writing it.

 

[CharleyH]

If the subject of the story is sex, and the theme of the story is self-discovery-- nope, the scenery is probably the least important thing, and a terrible distraction. The only thing that's important about the setting in such cases is the characters' reactions to it.

I'm rarely interested in scenery unless the setting is a protagonist in its own right, and sometimes of course, it is...

I understand about distractions in sex. If a writer takes the time to describe the setting, should it not in some way enhance the story or the sex? If not, why bother with a setting or location at all?

 

[Handley_Page]

Should the story stand up if there was no sex in it ?

 

[sr71plt]

Should the story stand up if there was no sex in it ?

If anything did, I guess it would have to be the story in that case, right?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I understand about distractions in sex. If a writer takes the time to describe the setting, should it not in some way enhance the story or the sex? If not, why bother with a setting or location at all?

So very.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

So very.

Being one who concentrates on story and sprinkles it with sex, I naturally find the setting important. Now if I were forty years younger . . .

 

[WRJames]

I think we've had similar conversations about physical descriptions of the characters.

I know that when I am writing, I have a very clear idea of where things are happening and what the characters look like. If I am writing a sexual scene, I try to make sure that what I am describing is in fact physically possible (although perhaps at times improbable).

That being said, if we get too wrapped up in the descriptions, we are writing costume (or lack of costume) dramas.

I am well aware that some of the frequent posters to this forum chide me for writing stories that don't "move" quickly enough for their taste -- which probably means that the frequency of ejaculations or spasmodic moans is not high enough to satisfy them. But when you get right down to it, there are only so many variations of human anatomy to work with.

To draw an analogy with musical composition -- there are only so many harmonic combinations. But there is an almost infinite variety of melody. In the same way, plot, character development, the depiction of an interesting time and place, all provide the variety that allow the sexual content to remain interesting.

Even so, frequent repetition of more or less the same sexual activities in a longer work can become boring and irritating.

 

[cloudy]

I rarely write sex anymore, but in some of my stories, the location was very important.

Possession took place in New Orleans, and would have been meaningless in any other location. I went to great pains to get the atmosphere right.

I Alone was non-erotic, but location (the flat lands of Oklahoma) was also very important to the story.

 

[TE999]

Before I wrote my first erotic story, I observed the techniques of authors here whose posted stories impressed me for style and content. Taking all that into consideration has served me well in the ensuing years of writing.

Atmosphere, dialogue, mood setting, plot and character development are all critical to a well written story erotic or no. A graphically detailed sex act placed in a poorly constructed story will not raise it's overall quality one iota.

A stroke story for stroke's sake is to me, boring.

 

[driphoney]

Should the story stand up if there was no sex in it ?

Isn't that the art of it? If I bought a $10 crime novel and without the sex it was empty, then yes, it should be able to stand without the sex. But if you're talking a scene or short story, a pleasure piece, if you will, then no. Why should it? That wasn't the point of writing it, was it? Might be nice to set it up, or might not be, depending.

Think of painting. Look at Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring and his View of Delft. One is a close-up, a portrait; the other a cityscape. Both lovely, both paintings. And both every different in what the painter chose to share. One view of the world does not negate the other. Both are valid.

Now, some of us writers write crappy 'Vermeer' in either variety, but you can't say one is better than the other. Both have their place. It's the writer's skill that makes it work or not.

That opinion will cost you exactly what it's worth! (The check's in the mail! )

 

[amicus]

Hello, CharleyH, nice thread...

I recall, it has been years, being led to a story of yours, that was highly descriptive and also contained some violent action or sex or both.

Only guessing here, but I sense there is an ulterior motive in your choice of a thread topic, that of the amount of description.

I also want to compliment you on; 'mise-en-scene', as it is somewhat serendipitous, for, 'ding-an-sich', was offered in another thread and I added my own, 'sang froid', in response; almost sounds like an authors' forum here, imagine that!

I also appreciated the Vermeer analogy and the one on music, chords and melodies also, fine bunch hanging around here.

I personally prefer minimal description, that which sets the scene or perhaps adds to it in some way; on the other hand I think there is a degree of over descriptive writing in many circumstances.

That is not to be taken as a criticism, merely an observation. There is a form of painting called, Pointillism, if I recall, utilizing a method of painting so detailed that even thinking of it bothered me. But I can get a quiver of emotion from viewing an Impressionist portrayal. Makes sense, I guess.

I have read novels wherein a garden scene, surrounding a couple in love, named each and every species of tree and flower and grass, in such detail that it caused me to wonder the point of it.

I have also attempted stories with no description, only dialog, no narration at all. I find those very difficult to extend beyond a few pages.

Thanks for the thread...

ami

 

[sunandshadow]

Mise-en-scene isn't as important in prose as it is in a visual medium, and of the prose genres it's probably most important in horror, only moderately so in erotica. Certainly descriptions of interesting sensory impressions, particularly of scents, textures, bodies, voices, and movement, can contribute to the effectiveness of erotica. In general sensory descriptions also help the reader feel oriented to the story world, able to see the story like a mental movie and feel immersed in the action and characters' emotions. But there are always going to be other elements that are equally or more important.

 

[slyc_willie]

Location can definitely impact the arousal factor of a story. You can describe two characters having sex missionary style in bed, and while it might be a very touching and romantic scene, it's pretty vanilla. Just about everyone on the planet who's had sex has done it this way. No big deal. But take the same two characters, same position, and put them in the back of an open-bed truck parked near a Fourth of July fireworks display, and both the kink and arousal factor spike pretty high on the meter. Well, for some, anyway.

When Milton and Karen made love on the beach in From Here to Eternity, part of what made that scene so enduring was its location. In the context of a written story, a good author could describe the thunderous rolling of the waves, the taste of the sea on the lovers' skin, and emphasize their torrid passion in a semi-public place. Altogether, the scene emphasizes raw passion that can't wait for a "respectable time" to be released.

A scene I recently wrote for a story due to be finished soon involves two of my main characters making love underwater in an underlit pool with the moon shining overhead. I include a lot of detail in setting up where they are, from the chilliness of the air, the glow of the water, the way the woman's hair floats around her head, etc. In this case, where the characters are is important for the romantic/erotic impact of the scene.

 

[Verdad]

I think the question of how much description is needed can't be answered on any general level, but as to the question of significance, of course the setting is significant. All the elements of a story (or a lack thereof) are significant, no matter what kind or what genre of a story we're talking about. In a fictional world, nothing happens without a reason. Or shouldn't.

Of course, no one should listen to my writing advice, because I tend to be aware of these things in a way that makes me unable to, um, write. From the reader's point of view, though, I see very well why Charley is asking.

 

[past_perfect]

Since I mainly write in the first person and tend to see perception as highly individual and dependent on situation, I tend to use flash-descriptions of the location, imagining what would be significant for the character, of course drawing from my own experience there - faced with a naked woman, I personally wouldn't dwell on the interior of a flat or the colour of a rainbow, unless I need to distract myself for obvious reasons.

However, when entering an unfamiliar environment, I take in details that either help me understand or size up my counterpart or have significance for the mood as in ambience. The attention span of readers is short, here in particular, so I don't want to use too much detail which might interfere with the pace of a story. It's a different story in my novels though, there I tend to assume that the readers can handle a tad more detail.

Hm, just scanned through my third person stories, there it's no different.