An open letter to subs

[Kianna104]

There is another thread on this board about is submission,slavery etc. a choice. I said all that I had to say on that topic when I posted my thoughts there last night. This morning how ever I wake up to in my mind is a slap in the face from a potential partner. When we met he said and did all the right things much like so many other partners and potential partners who have broken my heart and made me question where I belong. Am I reading my sexuality correctly to have been so wrong so often.? There was a point where I just didn't even know any more.

Most people would say open a book relax , look forward to the mail order package you'll receive in a week in other words cut your losses and forget about it. All of those are wonderful suggestions and I'm sure the friends who would have suggested that would be well meaning. To all of you I've tried it thanks please don't waste my pm space suggesting what I already know your going to . I love you all.

All I could do no matter what else i was doing was be really really pissed off. This person made all the right moves got me to trust him, care about him, worry about him, all to email me this morning and tell me well I lied to you from the very start. I was studied and dissected like the frog in high school. Fed every word i want to hear toyed with then when he was done he just admits he lies and skates off with no hurt feelings and This is where I'd start to question myself typically. Not today. Today, I'm putting this mess back on the Subs, Slaves, Bottoms exactly where it belongs.

As Dom(me)'s we take great pains to respect you and treat you very well. We ask you for two things respect and honesty. IF WE HAD WANTED PARROTS WE WOULD HAVE GONE TO A PET STORE. I promise you that would have been less trouble for us instead we chose you. We saw something we liked and we invest ourselves in you the very next time one of you gets this undying urge to lie to us I hope you remember this pissed off Domme and think about your lie again. And to any wannabe sub if you intend to parrot and not be who you really are in the beginning do us all a favor find somewhere else to play

 

[myinnerslut]

i'm sorry you got hurt. personally, i would be livid right about now.

 

[JustaNobody]

I know how much it hurts when even unintentional miscommunication brings an end to a relationship. I can only guess how much worse it must be when you find out not only that what you thought made the basis of the relationship was false, but that it was an intentional falsehood. I think most of the folks out here are not this selfishly shortsighted, but it's probably best for PYLs and pyls alike to remember that some people are. Occasionally, we also just need the reminder that the words on the screen are put there by real people whose feelings we can hurt, even the big bad Doms. For all these reminders, thank you. I'm sorry you were hurt, but I hope you can take some consolation in that your warning may bring nicer and safer behaviour to the rest of us.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

We ask you for two things respect and honesty.

Actually, those two items should be a given no matter what side of the fence, nor restricted to a BDSM relationship for that matter. Partners build relationships on trust. Liars suck in more ways than i care to name, but might as well suck whale shit off the bottom of the ocean, whether a kinkster or not.

 

[Aggravated]

Who the fuck do you think you are? The ambassador for dominants everywhere? Don't you presume to speak on behalf of a body of people who didn't invite your 'poor me' tirade.

The risk associated with meeting or connecting with someone new is universal -- vanilla and BDSM folk alike; fake Dom, fake subs exists, side by side. You got burned. Deal with it. But, don't make this a "dishonest sub" issue. It's a people issue. People, not just subs or Dom's, will be dishonest and do dumb things.

Next time, put that shit in a PM to the person who lied. Don't globalize and make it the fault and burden of every sub. I'd wonder about your ability to disassociate yourself from this issue next time you get a sub under your command. Who wants to sub for a weakling who thinks that all subs should have to pay for her past disappointments? Your methods are questionable and petty. If you're new to the game, by the by then. If not, I pity the sub who's the first to be under restraint with you holding the paddle.

Ignorant, feckless twit.

 

[Adakgirl]

. Am I reading my sexuality correctly to have been so wrong so often.?

What I would like to know is what your sexuality has to do with making decisions about choosing a certain submissive.

 

[JustaNobody]

Adakgirl, I may be wrong, but I read that statement as meaning Kianna was questioning her dominant nature, out of a belief that "real doms" would have control and not allow themselves to be played. At the same time I realize how totally disconnected the two factors are in reality, I also know from past experience that such a loss of control can lead to that kind of self-doubt in my own head. Maybe that's just my inexperience as a dom talking, but I see how it could make sense during a tense time.

Aggravated, I think it's probably better to try and take what constructive lessons we can from this sort of post instead of getting too upset at the messenger. I could spend all day getting upset at things people say on the internet. Even if I only got upset about people who were actively trying to piss people off, I would barely have scratched the surface of the upsetting things out there. If someone is trying to piss me off, reacting like you did only feeds them. If someone isn't, a kind response considering the other point of view is far more likely than an attack to help the OP see other viewpoints.

 

[the captians wench]

Been there, and I'm submissive.

It's not so much a dom/sub issue as a human issue. Some people lie, and some lie more than others. Some like to toy with other people's emotions, and unfortunately this happens even more with the aninomity of the internet. The internet is a safe place to be that person you fantasize about being, or wish you were. Who cares about the person on the other side of the screen? They are probably just putting on a show too right? And besides that it's not like you'll ever meet them in person anyway, so they really aren't real right?

At first I did the same thing. Tried to figure out what was wrong with me. Then I realized, it's them. They can't face real life, so they have to make this alterego online to toy with nieve people like me so they can feel like they are better than me. Well Fuck You.

Be angry. Be hurt. Be what ever emotion you need to be right now. And yes, question yourself, and your patterns, but don't beat yourself up.

 

[Kianna104]

I didn’t start this thread to be pitied I started it because yes I am new, and yes I did think that people with more expertise then I had didn’t get played . I thought I was alone in getting played and that somehow I had done something to deserve it. Like being who I was and treating people with respect potential sub or not was somehow making it ok to lie to me.

I don’t want this to cross over into my other relationships. I’m a freelance writer when I can get work and a fiction writer for my own pleasure Every relationship I’ve had here has always had an element of deceit to it. Not every person I’ve met but every sub who has approached me thus far has had something they have lied about which has always ended up in the end of the relationship.

I said something here so I could get advice. Because going thru it alone and ashamed of myself was getting me no where . I’m sorry if that upset people or gave the impression that I was whining .

 

[JMohegan]

I said something here so I could get advice.

The first post, above, indicates that you're here to lecture subs on the subjects of lying, parroting, and personal misrepresentation. Since you are now asking for advice, here's mine.

First - never begin the getting-to-know-you process by presenting a laundry list of personal likes & dislikes and detailed description of your individual relationship goals. If the person is inclined to parrot in order to gain favor, doing so = handing him a script. And besides, that approach denies both of you the delight of a more naturally progressing, back and forth exchange.

Ask *non-leading* questions, and follow up with more questions to check for depth and/or understanding. "I found Obama's autobiography fascinating, did you?" is an unhelpful question. Try: "Have you read Obama's autobiography?" followed by a discussion of the portrayal of his mother, instead. Same thing applies to early discussions on the subjects of preference in relationship flavor and goals.

Second - if the person you are starting to date is essentially a stranger (i.e., not an existing acquaintance or friend of a friend), check introductory biographical information promptly. For example, when you ask: "Where do you work?" and he responds: "I am a manager at First National Bank of Barely Solvent," then the next day you call the main number for that bank and ask for his extension. And when he says: "I own a home in Peoria," a quick Internet search of property tax records will tell you if he has been truthful. Etc.

Third - talk is cheap, as you know. Pay attention to what a guy does, not what he says he does. For example, he may describe himself as generous and kind, but the way he treats the wait staff will tell you far more about his actual character.

 

[NALA CAYENNE]

I said something here so I could get advice. Because going thru it alone and ashamed of myself was getting me no where . I’m sorry if that upset people or gave the impression that I was whining .

I didn't take your post as asking for advice (or even whining) so much as I took it as you admonishing ALL of the slaves/submissive/bottoms/etc for deceiving you. Not everyone is deceitful, but yes, there are those that are- not only online but in real life as well.

I can almost bet that each and everyone of us has had at least one bad experience online. I know I had a bad experience here and can share that bad experience with at least 4 other people- not necessarily slaves or subs, but PEOPLE. Yes I had the bad experience with a Dom, but that didn't have me cursing out every Dom on Lit, or even have me not opening myself up to another experience. It's really not fair to stereotype people and not expect some of them to get upset that they have been stereotyped

If you're a writer, freelance or otherwise, you might want to take note of how you say things so that you don't come off as accusatory when you are asking for advice.

 

[Adakgirl]

Adakgirl, I may be wrong, but I read that statement as meaning Kianna was questioning her dominant nature, out of a belief that "real doms" would have control and not allow themselves to be played.

Oh, I see now, thank you. I certainly questioned mine after I discovered that I had been lied to and deceived and manipulated by a male sub during a six month long on-line (experimental) D/s relationship. WARNING: this is a long story.
I had been exploring and learning to grow in my submissiveness and had some pretty difficult, emotional draining and hurtful on-line D/s relationships in the past... that did not work out. So I just put a full stop on everything and was seriously questioning if I was truly a submissive at all.

I have always been naturally Dominant in my work and everyday life. But as a lot of us do, I felt empty and a huge part of me felt unfulfilled. I had a great need for boundaries to be set and my control to be put in someone else's hands. Unfortunately for one reason or another I was having a hard time doing that. I had been told by several real/life Dominants that I was not a submissive I was a Dominant. So I thought I might explore my dominance.

I was not looking for a submissive when I found him, I was hanging out in a Domme chat room observing how those Mistresses handled their submissives. I never claimed to be a Mistress and told him that from day 1 when he begged me to give him a chance. When I looked at his face on cam, he was not a very good looking man but I saw in him a very vulnerable, confused person that seemed completely lost and alone.

He could barely spell or put words together intelligibly. His eyes wandered everywhere and he could not concentrate them on any one thing for more than a few moments at a time. He had a hard time comprehending what I was typing to him too. He did not understand simple directions. I was looking at a 48 year old man who appeared to me to be borderline retarded. I felt afraid for him, worried he would get picked up and misused by one of those despicable, hateful, cold, mean, domineering Mistresses that I saw coming in and out of that chat room.

So I gave him a 2000 word writing assignment and a deadline to have it turned in. "What being a submissive means to me". At that same time I gave the same assignment to a second sub who was begging me too. He was young & hott, beautiful, built like a brick shit house, just a gorgeous man.

Denny e-mailed me his assignment on time. It was only 200 misspelled words in one very long run-on sentence. It had nothing to do with the topic. It consisted mainly of more begging and offering his unworthy, awful, pitiful, useless, self up to me, so I could crush him under my boot into the dirt where he belonged. I thought OH NO! this poor guy has got it all wrong, he's out in left field, can't spell can't write, he has no self-esteem...,he doesn't even know what being a submissive means. He needs my help to show him the way, to lead him into the light and out of the darkness. I cannot just leave him to the wolves like he is.

I felt I had the power to "fix" him up, get him together...I knew I could help him. I took him on and told him there would be nothing sexual about our relationship, just Dominance and submission, nothing more and that we would never meet, never be together period. He understood and agreed.
The hottie guy never showed up or sent me his assignment at all..I thought yeah figgers he's a "player".

I was right on the money about all of those original impressions I had about him too. I DID help him, I gave him a spell check program and taught him how to use it. I held spelling tests and made him study for them. I taught him how use words so other people could understand what he was typing. I made him keep eye contact with other people when he spoke to them and with me when I typed to to him.

I gave him household chores to do everyday. I had him buy some new clothes an made him dress neatly every day. He became confident enough to apply for a higher position at work. He could smile again, he said I saved his life and I think that may have been true.

His wife was in prison for check fraud,(bouncing checks) at the time, doing 6 months her second conviction. Her 1st conviction had been for credit card fraud and identity theft, she had served 5 years. She had been in trouble and done some time before they met and married too. She had financially ruined him, lost all his savings, on the failed business he had set her up in. His credit was non-existent and he was still making restitution payments on her credit card fraud. They had met on-line. All those things were true

I told him she was poisoning his life, that she had been using him all along, that she was a con-artist and a thief. I told him she would not change, she would do this stuff again. She had sore to him never again after she got out the 1st time. She had broke that promise.
He told me he was going to divorce her when she got out, that he would let her stay until she got on her feet then out she went. He convinced me he would do what was best for his future. I told him file for divorce now before she gets out, so she knows whats going down before she comes back.

After a few months he said had filed. I warned him not to have sex with her when she got out. She would use sex to manipulate him into keeping her around. He swore to me he wouldn't lay a hand on her. He was going to move on and keep improving his life like I wanted him too. He made it appear on cam like he had cleaned his kitchen and done other chores i had told him to do. My computer fried and so I wrote him a long letter with his instructions on what to do until i got back on-line, I enclosed one of my favorite pics of myself and a silver neck chain, an earring. We spoke on the phone every night until i got a new laptop.

Then I caught him in the act of disobeying me a second time for the same crime. I had used physical punishment for the 1st offense. So I went to a great Dominant I knew for advice on what to do about this one. He advised I tell him why then cut off contact for a week. I took the advice, he never returned. I knew the date his wife's jail time was up. I heard nothing from him at all. Did not want to call and upset her.

I was upset, confused as to what was going on with him, I was worried sick about him too. about a week after she was supposed to have come home I was on Yahoo and saw him come on-line. I had left him offline messages asking where the hell he was and was he ok ect. I knew it could not be him at that time, he was at work, he never missed work. So it had to be his wife signing in and she had to have read those messages or was reading them right then.

I IMed and asked? Denny is that you? No reply. I said " U R his wife Alice aren't you?" pause..." yes". I said,
'You are probably really upset right now but we really need to talk, I am so 7 so your husbands on-line Dominant. She said "I know I found your letter and picture on the floor under the desk in a pile of papers when i was cleaning up. This house was filthy a pig sty .I freaked out. He said u were just a friend, he was helping you out by pretending to be your submissive cuz you were all messed up and you needed him."

I went on to explain everything to her. She didn't believe me at first. She said Denny is as honest as the day is long, he has never lied to me." I said "Did you see the chain he is wearing on his neck?" "Yes!" "I sent that chain to him" "Oh my god! He led to me! he said he found it at work" " Did u send him that earing too?" "yes". "he lied to me about that then too".

I asked her "did he tell you he had filed for divorce" "No not a word" "So you did not get served in jail with divorce papers" "no". "Did he tell you that he wanted to end it with you and you have to find a place to live?" "no" me-"well he told me he was going to do all those things" her- "OMg so the sex and his words of forgiveness were all a lie?" I said no, he lied to me, not you about never forgiving you and divorcing you" He lied to me about everything. Forgive him Alice he needs you it seems.."I hope you both can start over and be happy"

Then she told me he had done this on-line sub thing before, but told her it was just a game, it meant nothing to him. I was shocked and upset, devastated by the fact he had my pic thrown on the floor, he hadn't hidden the things I sent him like i told him. I realized I was all a big joke to him. Our relationship all that time had been a farce, a lie, a game. I had really come to care for him deeply. He was a good man. I told her I was very sorry and I would never try to contact him again. She told me she was sorry he had done this to me.

SOOOOO in conclusion you want to talk about investment in time, in energy, commitment, and in emotions....I gave him back his self esteem, his self worth, his confidence and I worked hard on him for 6 months almost daily. He looked nice, well dressed, he could spell, he could write, he could use his computer to search for info, he could look you in the eye and smile and laugh again.

What did I get out of all the intense effort I put into him? He took from me, he lied to me, he betrayed me and threw me away with no remorse, like a piece of garbage. I didn't even get an e-mail.
You think you feel bad now? Think how I felt.

 

[pandoravampire]

I was quite suprised to read your OP, then the last part threw me, as it identified you as a Domme.

What id read was whiney, whingey hurt female. Neither Domme nor Sub, just a human bean, who'd got their fingers burnt.

People will bullshit you, regardless of how you'd like to identify yourself.

With regards to you having your sexual identity right?
What - you think that being a Domme is some form of protection from bad behaviour? Wake up and smell the coffee honey.

People will treat you whatever way they choose to.

Your Domme part is irrelevant.

Dom, sub, maso (well perhaps not maso's) people will treat you the way you allow them to.

But practice what you preach. Get back up of the floor, dust yourself off. And learn in retrospect, what went wrong.

Poly is always fraught with just one too many personalities. Its like a electronic device, the more buttons, the more can go wrong.
Tricky
i wish you luck with that.
pv

 

[BiBunny]

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh429/leecuddihy/3135402432_e7db05e8db.jpg

 

[unpredictablebijou]

There is another thread on this board about is submission,slavery etc. a choice. I said all that I had to say on that topic when I posted my thoughts there last night. This morning how ever I wake up to in my mind is a slap in the face from a potential partner. When we met he said and did all the right things much like so many other partners and potential partners who have broken my heart and made me question where I belong. Am I reading my sexuality correctly to have been so wrong so often.? There was a point where I just didn't even know any more.

Most people would say open a book relax , look forward to the mail order package you'll receive in a week in other words cut your losses and forget about it. All of those are wonderful suggestions and I'm sure the friends who would have suggested that would be well meaning. To all of you I've tried it thanks please don't waste my pm space suggesting what I already know your going to . I love you all.

All I could do no matter what else i was doing was be really really pissed off. This person made all the right moves got me to trust him, care about him, worry about him, all to email me this morning and tell me well I lied to you from the very start. I was studied and dissected like the frog in high school. Fed every word i want to hear toyed with then when he was done he just admits he lies and skates off with no hurt feelings and This is where I'd start to question myself typically. Not today. Today, I'm putting this mess back on the Subs, Slaves, Bottoms exactly where it belongs.

As Dom(me)'s we take great pains to respect you and treat you very well. We ask you for two things respect and honesty. IF WE HAD WANTED PARROTS WE WOULD HAVE GONE TO A PET STORE. I promise you that would have been less trouble for us instead we chose you. We saw something we liked and we invest ourselves in you the very next time one of you gets this undying urge to lie to us I hope you remember this pissed off Domme and think about your lie again. And to any wannabe sub if you intend to parrot and not be who you really are in the beginning do us all a favor find somewhere else to play

I'm sorry, I can't find the part where you're asking for advice.

But here's a bit anyway, since you've admitted that you're new here: It's generally not a good idea to speak for ALL of any category of people, or to ALL of any category. That is pretty much guaranteed to piss off at least some of the people in the categories.

I am a "Domme" and part of that is not liking it when people speak for me. And at the risk of being a bit facetious, this statement:

As Dom(me)'s we take great pains to respect you and treat you very well. We ask you for two things respect and honesty

.

may or may not apply to me. Maybe I don't give a shit about respect and honesty. Maybe I don't treat my subs well at all. I'm just sayin.

By the way, welcome. I hope you have a much better time from here on in.

 

[Homburg]

The first post, above, indicates that you're here to lecture subs on the subjects of lying, parroting, and personal misrepresentation. Since you are now asking for advice, here's mine.

First - never begin the getting-to-know-you process by presenting a laundry list of personal likes & dislikes and detailed description of your individual relationship goals. If the person is inclined to parrot in order to gain favor, doing so = handing him a script. And besides, that approach denies both of you the delight of a more naturally progressing, back and forth exchange.

Ask *non-leading* questions, and follow up with more questions to check for depth and/or understanding. "I found Obama's autobiography fascinating, did you?" is an unhelpful question. Try: "Have you read Obama's autobiography?" followed by a discussion of the portrayal of his mother, instead. Same thing applies to early discussions on the subjects of preference in relationship flavor and goals.

Second - if the person you are starting to date is essentially a stranger (i.e., not an existing acquaintance or friend of a friend), check introductory biographical information promptly. For example, when you ask: "Where do you work?" and he responds: "I am a manager at First National Bank of Barely Solvent," then the next day you call the main number for that bank and ask for his extension. And when he says: "I own a home in Peoria," a quick Internet search of property tax records will tell you if he has been truthful. Etc.

Third - talk is cheap, as you know. Pay attention to what a guy does, not what he says he does. For example, he may describe himself as generous and kind, but the way he treats the wait staff will tell you far more about his actual character.

This post is gold. Read it a few times and absorb what it has to say.

Money, seriously.

 

[ihavehope444]

This is good advice whether a dom or sub. Or neither.

 

[kara24]

I cant see anything in the original message here which is specific to a bdsm relationship. Just seems that you are someone hurt and upset and sounding off.

I would respectfully suggest that you should not be in ANY relationship right now, you are just too angry. I certainly would not want to be a sub on the receiving end of your anger!

Just take some time out to let yourself heal, and remind yourself who you really are. You dont want to be taking all that negative emotion into a new relationship, as it is just asking for trouble further down the line.

Just like in the rest of life, dont tar everyone with the same brush, it takes time to find someone you can trust and who will trust you.

When you are really ready to start again, keep the previous tips in mind, they sound like perfect advice for the start of a relationship. Protect yourself, but dont let a bad experience ruin your future.

x kara x

 

[AppleButter]

I am sorry you came across someone so Fake. Sadly it seems that From both sides people tend to think the best way to proceed in this lifestyle is to make up some bogus Self and prance around attracting anyone who sees them. I know begin in this lifestyle can be trouble some. A secret to most. A shame to others. IT seems to me that the best way for people to hide from there shame is to lie. IT wasnt them...It was something else. TO be two faced because then they can pretend that in there Vanilla life Nothing is damaged or spoiled. THat they are perfect and without flaws.
I wish that when you encountered someone from this lifestyle you can trust they will put as much on the line as yourself. But that seems to be a Fantasy. Lying is sooo Much easier then the Truth.

Some Dom(mes) and Subs... should go back to there vanilla lifes instead of causeing Chaos in a lifestyle that is already full of Pain