How to deal with some info

[KokopelliRises]

I've been spending time lately with a really sweet guy who I can really see being in a relationship with not to far down the line. We've been messing around a little bit, but nothing minus clothes. I like him and I know he likes me, but he told me tonight that he believes in abstinence. I don't know what to do with this information. It's something I've never had to deal with before. I'm tempted to let it be and address it again when it becomes an issue, but I have a feeling it's going to stick with me for a while so the actual doing of that might be hard.

What should I do? How should I deal with this information?

 

[gloriann]

I supposed it depends on how badly you want to have sex with him. If you do, sounds like you're out of luck and you can either talk him into it or move on, because that will do nothing but frustrate you.

 

[fire_breeze]

I've been spending time lately with a really sweet guy who I can really see being in a relationship with not to far down the line. We've been messing around a little bit, but nothing minus clothes. I like him and I know he likes me, but he told me tonight that he believes in abstinence. I don't know what to do with this information. It's something I've never had to deal with before. I'm tempted to let it be and address it again when it becomes an issue, but I have a feeling it's going to stick with me for a while so the actual doing of that might be hard.

What should I do? How should I deal with this information?

How about starting a conversation with him? Ask him, in a non-threatening and non-judgmental manner, why he believes in abstinence? Is it for moral, ethical or religious reasons? Does he believe that sex should be reserved for love, and that love should be solidified (marriage, a ceremony, pact) before physically consuming that love? Or does he not want to risk any STIs and thinks that this is the safest recourse? Does he merely have no interest in sex? What constitutes as 'abstinence'? No intercourse? No nudity? How about oral or manual sex? Cyber of phone sex? You both owe each other a conversation about this, and to answer any questions honestly.

Just like he has the right to believe in abstinence and chose to practice it in a relationship with a caring partner, so do you have a right to believe in physically expressing your affection with a caring partner. Discuss and see if you can't come to some sort of an agreement. If neither of you can can come up with an agreement that satisfies you both, and if this is an area of a relationship that you think is fundamentally important, then it could be time to re-evaluate and re-assess the relationship.

Good luck

 

[eudaemonia]

First question in my mind was, "What does he mean by 'abstinence'?" I'd pin him down on a definition before getting into any normative discussion. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a tad suspicious of someone who messes around -- even a little bit -- before bringing up 'abstinence'. This could be a sign of inner conflict or uncertainty of meaning on his part.

Good luck!

 

[silverwhisper]

i was thinking the same as eudaemonia. i've heard a friend say that citing abstinence is the new way of saying "i'm just not that into you". maybe it's genuine, maybe it's just a line, but if you respect his beliefs and you're fairly sure that really is what it is, i'd suggest working on an alternative, to be frank.

ed

 

[KokopelliRises]

First question in my mind was, "What does he mean by 'abstinence'?" I'd pin him down on a definition before getting into any normative discussion. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a tad suspicious of someone who messes around -- even a little bit -- before bringing up 'abstinence'. This could be a sign of inner conflict or uncertainty of meaning on his part.

Good luck!

Thanks for your advice. My impression is that it is personal thing and not religious or anything like that in origin. I do need to ask about it because I have had some ponderings on what he meant by that. Not now, but not too far away. If it's a firm thing I think I could accept it, but it would take some time on my part to do that. I've made a list of pros and cons, and so far the pros outweigh the cons. I took a chance on him in the first place and that worked well, and I think I could do that again.

 

[literal]

how old are you both?

 

[KokopelliRises]

how old are you both?

I'm 20, almost 21 and he's 19. Why does it matter?

 

[SweetErika]

I'm 20, almost 21 and he's 19. Why does it matter?

I don't know about you, but I'd definitely have some other questions if it was a 30+ person saying they were abstinent vs. a teenager or twentysomething saying the same. For instance, I might start to wonder why they had never had sex with anyone - was it because they were questioning their sexuality, asexual, had impossible standards, were very repressed sexually, had so many issues that no one stuck around...?

With someone of 19 or in their early twenties, I'm more likely to think they're waiting until they're in love or married, but much beyond that, and I'd wonder what else was going on.

 

[KokopelliRises]

I don't know about you, but I'd definitely have some other questions if it was a 30+ person saying they were abstinent vs. a teenager or twentysomething saying the same. For instance, I might start to wonder why they had never had sex with anyone - was it because they were questioning their sexuality, asexual, had impossible standards, were very repressed sexually, had so many issues that no one stuck around...?

With someone of 19 or in their early twenties, I'm more likely to think they're waiting until they're in love or married, but much beyond that, and I'd wonder what else was going on.

Ah. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

 

[cromsgirl]

I had a boyfriend in college who said he didn't believe in premarital sex. I liked him and I respected that, so I was fine with just kissing and making out. It took about two weeks for him to change his mind.

My cousin also always stated that he didn't believe in premarital sex, until he got a girlfriend and would possibly get some, then it was ok if you were in love. After they broke up he went back to his previous stance.

I'm not saying this is true about your guy, or guys in general, but I thought they were interesting perspectives.

I also had a female friend who wanted to stay a virgin until marriage, so would only have anal sex.

Everyone has different views on sex.

 

[PertPerth]

Is it that he doesn't believe in premarital sex, or total abstinence for life? Is it due to religion?
I'm assuming you mean total abstinence for lie. If you're serious about wanting a relationship with him, then there are some fundamentals which you need to deicde if you can live with. Being intimate isn't just sex, it's a closeness to someone and I beleive that you can have that. BUT, if you're wanting a family, then there is a huge issue.
He's told you for a reason, but without knowing more, my only real advice it to talk to him about it!

 

[KokopelliRises]

Is it that he doesn't believe in premarital sex, or total abstinence for life? Is it due to religion?
I'm assuming you mean total abstinence for lie. If you're serious about wanting a relationship with him, then there are some fundamentals which you need to deicde if you can live with. Being intimate isn't just sex, it's a closeness to someone and I beleive that you can have that. BUT, if you're wanting a family, then there is a huge issue.
He's told you for a reason, but without knowing more, my only real advice it to talk to him about it!

I think it's just premarital, but thanks for pointing out something else I need to ask about. I'm starting to think religion might have something to do with it, if not a lot.

To be honest, the reason he told me is because he asked me if I was a virgin, then my curiosity got the best of me and I asked the same, and he explained it to me.

I have every intention of talking to him about it soon. Thanks to the help of the people on this board I think I know how to do it too.

 

[subwannabe]

Good luck. I would definitely find out what his definition of abstinence is. I kind of find it curious that he asked if you were a virgin. I don't believe I read what your answer was, not that it's important. I just kind of wonder that if you were not a virgin then maybe your relationship would be over. He may be too religious for you if you are in your 20's and he is only interested in having a serious relationship with a virgin. I say to him, "Good luck!".

 

[KokopelliRises]

Good luck. I would definitely find out what his definition of abstinence is. I kind of find it curious that he asked if you were a virgin. I don't believe I read what your answer was, not that it's important. I just kind of wonder that if you were not a virgin then maybe your relationship would be over. He may be too religious for you if you are in your 20's and he is only interested in having a serious relationship with a virgin. I say to him, "Good luck!".

I didn't actually say my answer here. It was no. I think it's one of those things that probably was just a question and not a serious deal breaker. He's not that religious in the traditional sense of the word. He knows very well that I'm bi and he's completely fine with it, so I don't think sexual activity would be a deal breaker.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Cathleen]

How about starting a conversation with him? Ask him, in a non-threatening and non-judgmental manner, why he believes in abstinence? Is it for moral, ethical or religious reasons? Does he believe that sex should be reserved for love, and that love should be solidified (marriage, a ceremony, pact) before physically consuming that love? Or does he not want to risk any STIs and thinks that this is the safest recourse? Does he merely have no interest in sex? What constitutes as 'abstinence'? No intercourse? No nudity? How about oral or manual sex? Cyber of phone sex? You both owe each other a conversation about this, and to answer any questions honestly.

Just like he has the right to believe in abstinence and chose to practice it in a relationship with a caring partner, so do you have a right to believe in physically expressing your affection with a caring partner. Discuss and see if you can't come to some sort of an agreement. If neither of you can can come up with an agreement that satisfies you both, and if this is an area of a relationship that you think is fundamentally important, then it could be time to re-evaluate and re-assess the relationship.

Good luck

What a great post, Fire Breeze. Those are excellent questions.

I didn't actually say my answer here. It was no. I think it's one of those things that probably was just a question and not a serious deal breaker. He's not that religious in the traditional sense of the word. He knows very well that I'm bi and he's completely fine with it, so I don't think sexual activity would be a deal breaker.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I hope things go well with your conversation, Koko. What struck me in this post concerns your sexual activity. You don't think he'll mind if you're sexually active with others -- just women or both men and women? Did he indicate that abstinence meant him only?

It's a very interesting discussion. Perhaps you'll update us?

 

[KokopelliRises]

What a great post, Fire Breeze. Those are excellent questions.







I hope things go well with your conversation, Koko. What struck me in this post concerns your sexual activity. You don't think he'll mind if you're sexually active with others -- just women or both men and women? Did he indicate that abstinence meant him only?

It's a very interesting discussion. Perhaps you'll update us?

I meant past sexual activity, not present, but I can see where my phrasing was a little unclear.

Fire Breeze's questions cover exactly what I've been thinking about to ask, especially since reading this thread. Thanks so much, all of you, for giving me a clear way to think about this and helping with coming up with a discussion plan in my head.

When the discussion happens I will definitely update.

 

[Cathleen]

I meant past sexual activity, not present, but I can see where my phrasing was a little unclear.

Fire Breeze's questions cover exactly what I've been thinking about to ask, especially since reading this thread. Thanks so much, all of you, for giving me a clear way to think about this and helping with coming up with a discussion plan in my head.

When the discussion happens I will definitely update.

In a thousand years I'd never have come up with the questions/thoughts given in so many threads. It's a great community with a wealth of information.

I hope things go well for you both.

 

[eudaemonia]

In a thousand years I'd never have come up with the questions/thoughts given in so many threads. It's a great community with a wealth of information.

It's nice to see some of the regulars from a couple of years ago such as The Two Wise Women, Cathleen and Erika, are still here.

 

[KokopelliRises]

It's nice to see some of the regulars from a couple of years ago such as The Two Wise Women, Cathleen and Erika, are still here.

That's one of things I love about these boards is the wealth of information and opinions on any given subject and how helpful people can be.

 

[soverysexxx]

if hes worth it, hes worth it. if not move on and respect his wishes.

 

[KokopelliRises]

Well, I have some news that's not good. It looks like the conversation may be delayed inevitably. He thinks it's not fair to me to start something based on this partially sexual relationship. There's so much I want to say like the fact that it can work out, but I know that I cannot sway the mind of someone who has had a lot of time to think about it. I saw so much potential, but again I have the idea reinforced that when I do something spontaneous it will always come back and bite me in the butt and that I'm not worth it to anyone.

Gah, this is so upsetting. Everything was going so well. How does one deal with something like this? How does one back off from someone who kisses so well and just knows how to do things so right?

Why can't I have anything turn out right in my life?

*cries*

 

[SweetErika]

Well, I have some news that's not good. It looks like the conversation may be delayed inevitably. He thinks it's not fair to me to start something based on this partially sexual relationship. There's so much I want to say like the fact that it can work out, but I know that I cannot sway the mind of someone who has had a lot of time to think about it. I saw so much potential, but again I have the idea reinforced that when I do something spontaneous it will always come back and bite me in the butt and that I'm not worth it to anyone.

Gah, this is so upsetting. Everything was going so well. How does one deal with something like this? How does one back off from someone who kisses so well and just knows how to do things so right?

Why can't I have anything turn out right in my life?

*cries*

First off, I'm sorry it didn't work out and you're hurting.

Secondly, it seems like you're extremely disappointed at not having your expectations met, and you have the opportunity to turn this whole thing into a positive that could very well benefit you for the rest of your life.

Please understand that I'm not minimizing or invalidating your feelings, but it sounds like you're blowing things out of proportion, even just a little bit. I recognize this because I have a habit of doing the same: pumping up my expectations of how the future and people should be, then really hitting bottom when things don't go as I planned in my mind. It's truly a form of self-torture, because more often than not, my expectations get deflated quickly and I turn a bunch of negativity on myself.

What's helped me at least is focusing on letting people and events present themselves as they are (vs. planning and expecting), expecting the worst while hoping for the best (though not in a negative way - this idea just helps me accept the reality that things go wrong), and looking for the positives I can take from experiences, so even when things go horribly awry, I still grow in some way and don't generalize that negative experience to the rest of my life.

It also helps to deal in facts, rather than feelings. For instance, I'm sure you feel like nothing ever turns out for you, but the reality is that some things have worked (and will continue to work!) out for you. When you feel like this, figure out (and even list, say, write down) the facts, e.g. I bet you've had some positive relationship experiences, met some great people/friends, accomplished things, made goals for yourself, etc.

Things will only always go wrong for you if you let yourself have a negative perspective and that color your vision of future events. You can't control other people or random events, but you can choose how you perceive, react to, and move forward from, your interactions and experiences. You can view your experience with this guy as 'nothing ever works out and I'll never have a good relationship,' or you can choose to tell yourself, 'hey, we had some good times, I learned XYZ and this interaction will lead me toward better relationships in the future.'

I'm not sure how much sense that makes, but I do get where you're coming from and hope you can move on in peace. You likely have a long time for things to work out well for you, and it's pretty clear from your posts here that you have a lot to offer the right people, so go out and create your own positive experiences!

 

[KokopelliRises]

Thank you SweetErika.

 

[NippleMuncher]

I too am sorry that things didn't work out. I also tend to agree that "abstinence" might have been a ploy to not get too involved.

From a personal standpoint, when "sex" was always in the forefront of my mind, relationships were always drudgery and ended badly. That is because I was focused on sex, not the person. In my late 20's I chose to be abstinent for no other reason than I didn't want sex to be a part of a relationship until a relationship even existed and then progressed to the point of sex. From that point forward I've always kept physical contact at arms length until I can determine that this is a person I'd be interested in continuing a deeper, connected relationship with. The difference between this and what Koko describes is that I was up front about wanting the relationship to bloom before allowing sex and hormones to take over.