And They Want $1.2 Trillion

[Belegon]

Clintons fault just like it's his fault Bin Laden wasn't caught when he had the chance.

Dude, the man has been the most wanted man on the planet for almost seven years and hasn't been caught.

To say something that amounts to blaming Bill for everything because he should have caught him then, when we can't catch him now, is really really really partisan.

It would be like if I started ranting about how 9/11 is Reagan's fault for funding the Taliban in the first place back when they were fighting the Soviets.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

The IRS seized the Mustang Ranch in NV for back taxes in 1990. Not too long after they shut it down for failure to thrive. So to speak. They lost money on the operation.

So the federal government can't make money selling pussy and whiskey and they now want $1.2 trillion of your money so they can help the economy. They go broke trying to run a whore house but they are sure they know how how to run banks.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Another Urban Legend...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/mustang_ranch.htm

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Another Urban Legend...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/mustang_ranch.htm

Thanks, Bri!

 

[rgraham666]

Of course Clark said that when he was promoting his book and has been discredited.
The fact is that there was not enough work being done on the intelligence side to find all the answers. There were plenty of hints but nothing to tie it all rogether and that is Clintons fault just like it's his fault Bin Laden wasn't caught when he had the chance.

Do you have a cite? Or has Clarke, who served with distinction under several Presidents suddenly become a liberal and therefore untrustworthy?

 

[incubus666]

While Hillary has poached a few mid-level aides from her husband's administration, several are informally allying with Obama—including counter-terrorism expert Richard Clarke, who has begun advising the Illinois Senator.

So yeah, he went over to the dark side.

The way I remember it Clark wanted to be the director of the newly established Dept. of Homeland Security. When he did not get the Homeland Security job he quit. Wrote a book slaming the Bush administration. Can anyone say Sour Grapes?

On another post on this thread Mr. Grahm accused me of being a revolutionary because I disagerred with the stimulus package. The thing that strikes me is just a very few years ago those who slammed then President Bush declared themselves as patriots.

So my question to Mr. Graham is why am I not a patriot as opposed to being a revolutionary?

FYI a recent poll by Zogby found 53% of those surveyed said the StimPac would hurt the recovery. So I am more then willing to be a revolutionary along with a majority of other Americans.

I do apologize for the Urban Myth about the IRS and the Mustang Ranch. I got the info from my wife who usually checks these things out. She did not check it out and I failed to ask her. It was totally my fault and not hers. It was my responsibility for posting something I had not checked out myself.

I will say I could have written about Fanny, Freddy, and Sally and how badly the congress has allowed their malfeasance to cost you the tax payers money out of your pockets. I doubt I would have received many of the reply's as this thread did.

I was also surprised about the left talking about whinning about a single subject. The left's entire mantra over the last 8 years has pissing, moaning, and whinning about almost everything President Bush did. In all honesty I did not say a single worrd about President Obama. All of my comments were more directed toward the congress.

It's late i'm tired 05:30 comes early

So to al a good night.

 

[DesertPirate]

While Hillary has poached a few mid-level aides from her husband's administration, several are informally allying with Obama—including counter-terrorism expert Richard Clarke, who has begun advising the Illinois Senator.

So yeah, he went over to the dark side.

The way I remember it Clark wanted to be the director of the newly established Dept. of Homeland Security. When he did not get the Homeland Security job he quit. Wrote a book slaming the Bush administration. Can anyone say Sour Grapes?

That fits my memory as well. Sour grapes or a temper tantrum. Didn't get what he wanted so he stomped his feet and yelled. The book didn't sell very well either.

 

[rgraham666]

Brilliant. The book didn't sell very well. And I think he's mad about not getting his own way. Therefore everything he says is a lie.

So you're saying that the first item on the agenda the first time the Bush National Security Council met was not Iraq? And that Al Qaeda was discussed earlier than a couple of weeks before 9/11?

Or is that factoid I posted from Clarke true and the only way you can deal with it is by character assassination?

 

[DesertPirate]

I'm saying that the intelligence agencies (all of them) were so disorganized by Clintons budget cuts that there was no coherent picture of what was really going on. Clarkes version of things is suspect due to his later actions. Self serving to say the least.

 

[PamCarolson]

I remember reading something that stated the defense and intelligence budget were cut by 30%, and the military used all cruise missles in their inventory in 1996? sorry, but not able to do the research...my boss won't understand (so this might be a myth, not sure)

I'm saying that the intelligence agencies (all of them) were so disorganized by Clintons budget cuts that there was no coherent picture of what was really going on. Clarkes version of things is suspect due to his later actions. Self serving to say the least.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm saying that the intelligence agencies (all of them) were so disorganized by Clintons budget cuts that there was no coherent picture of what was really going on. Clarkes version of things is suspect due to his later actions. Self serving to say the least.

Shrugs. You've yet to provide any evidence of that. You can't even challenge a simple factoid such as the one I posted.

I won't waste my time anymore debating with you. I've better things to do with my life.

 

[DesertPirate]

Shrugs. You've yet to provide any evidence of that. You can't even challenge a simple factoid such as the one I posted.

I won't waste my time anymore debating with you. I've better things to do with my life.

You didn't provide a fact just a comment.

Wouldn't matter you wouldn't change your view anyway.

 

[cloudy]

You didn't provide a fact just a comment.

Wouldn't matter you wouldn't change your view anyway.

And you would?

Please.

 

[DesertPirate]

These parts of the Porkulous bill are really going to "stimulate" the economy and create jobs, aren't they?

-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

This is just a dream pork spending bill, nothing more, nothing less. There are many items that might be worth funding, just not as part of a "Stimulous" bill. Just a Federal funding wet dream.

 

[cloudy]

-- $410 million for Indian health facilities

Sure...let's not pay to keep those pesky injuns healthy. Let 'em all die out.

As it stands right now, there is no money at all after about June for any treatment whatsoever on reservations. None. Zip. An old saying goes, "Don't get sick after June."

But, of course, what should you care, right? Fucking racist.

eta: all those things will create jobs, directly or indirectly, which is the whole damn point. I'm sure that's a little hard for you to grasp, but it's true.

 

[sadangel]

These parts of the Porkulous bill are really going to "stimulate" the economy and create jobs, aren't they?

-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

This is just a dream pork spending bill, nothing more, nothing less. There are many items that might be worth funding, just not as part of a "Stimulous" bill. Just a Federal funding wet dream.

Sure...let's not pay to keep those pesky injuns healthy. Let 'em all die out.

As it stands right now, there is no money at all after about June for any treatment whatsoever on reservations. None. Zip. An old saying goes, "Don't get sick after June."

But, of course, what should you care, right? Fucking racist.

eta: all those things will create jobs, directly or indirectly, which is the whole damn point. I'm sure that's a little hard for you to grasp, but it's true.

Cloudy. Please consider me just a bit dense. How do some of these things in the stimulus package help to create jobs? I'm asking seriously and showing my ignorance.

I have no problem with the money to be spent on Indian Health Care services. I've been to two Indian reservatons and have seen that many are in a deplorable state. It's been that way for far too long. It's time to set aside some money for that and do something right for a change.

 

[rgraham666]

Cloudy. Please consider me just a bit dense. How do some of these things in the stimulus package help to create jobs? I'm asking seriously and showing my ignorance.

I have no problem with the money to be spent on Indian Health Care services. I've been to two Indian reservatons and have seen that many are in a deplorable state. It's been that way for far too long. It's time to set aside some money for that and do something right for a change.

The only one that makes me go "WTF?" is the digital conversion project. Also I'm not certain what "Limitation on Administrative Expenses" is. Or what "$1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs" means.

The others seem like damned good ideas.

For example: $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire". It's pretty well known that the efforts to prevent forest fires wasn't such a good idea.

In nature, forest fires often occur. But they were rarely severe. They would burn away the brush while leaving the healthy trees pretty much intact. It was part of the cycle.

Many forests now have very severe undergrowth that feeds forest fires. The result has been more severe fires that destroy a fair bit of forest. These fires are often very hard to control. And some are very close to populated areas. I recall a few instances in the last few years where towns were burned out. It's possible in a very dry season to have fires like those that just hit Australia.

So this part of the bill means work crews will go into the woods to clear away the brush. They will be working, which they might not have been before. This means money they can spend for all kinds of things; like shelter and food to start.

It will also save money in the future for fighting a wild fire is a proposition that approaches the cost of a battle, which is a lot of money. It will also reduce the amount of money the government has to spend on disaster relief when towns are burned out.

So this is a good idea.

All the others seems like good ideas as well for similar reasons. They get people working now, or they are investments in the future or both.

And DP? Are you really against spending money on making sure people get safe drinking water? Because that's sure what it sounds like.

 

[sadangel]

The only one that makes me go "WTF?" is the digital conversion project. Also I'm not certain what "Limitation on Administrative Expenses" is. Or what "$1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs" means.

The others seem like damned good ideas.

For example: $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire". It's pretty well known that the efforts to prevent forest fires wasn't such a good idea.

In nature, forest fires often occur. But they were rarely severe. They would burn away the brush while leaving the healthy trees pretty much intact. It was part of the cycle.

Many forests now have very severe undergrowth that feeds forest fires. The result has been more severe fires that destroy a fair bit of forest. These fires are often very hard to control. And some are very close to populated areas. I recall a few instances in the last few years where towns were burned out. It's possible in a very dry season to have fires like those that just hit Australia.

So this part of the bill means work crews will go into the woods to clear away the brush. They will be working, which they might not have been before. This means money they can spend for all kinds of things; like shelter and food to start.

It will also save money in the future for fighting a wild fire is a proposition that approaches the cost of a battle, which is a lot of money. It will also reduce the amount of money the government has to spend on disaster relief when towns are burned out.

So this is a good idea.

All the others seems like good ideas as well for similar reasons. They get people working now, or they are investments in the future or both.

And DP? Are you really against spending money on making sure people get safe drinking water? Because that's sure what it sounds like.

Thank you Rob.
That I understood.

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy. Please consider me just a bit dense. How do some of these things in the stimulus package help to create jobs? I'm asking seriously and showing my ignorance.

I have no problem with the money to be spent on Indian Health Care services. I've been to two Indian reservatons and have seen that many are in a deplorable state. It's been that way for far too long. It's time to set aside some money for that and do something right for a change.

I've answered some of these in red.

-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs" Counselors will have to be trained, safe houses opened and staffed, etc.
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs This is sort of the same as the Violence Prevention above. Inspectors, Trainers, etc., will all have to be put to work
-- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"Any upgrades will necessitate people to do them - more jobs
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection More Inspectors
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census Census workers
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet Current vehicles will have to be changed over, new vehicles means jobs not lost at the factories themselves
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire" Inspectors, at the very least
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24 All those youths will need supervision, training, etc.
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda Researchers will have jobs
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations All kinds of jobs for healthcare workers
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities Most reservation health clinics are short staffed ALL the time, and some of those staffers donate their skills. Again, more jobs for healthcare workers.
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations Someone has to do the demonstrating - more jobs.

 

[sadangel]

I've answered some of these in red.

Thank you Cloudy. Again. I understand more now. Sometimes it just takes longer for me to process things. Not always.

-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs" Counselors will have to be trained, safe houses opened and staffed, etc.

As a survivor of Domestic Violence, I wholeheartdly agree that more money needs to be spent to open safe houses, train and staff them. I spent 4 months in 1998 at one in Michigan. The building was falling apart. Of the Four floors in the building, only two were safe for using. There wasn't enough staff and many women needing help. It was 2 hours away from the town I lived in. That's sad that just because you live in a rural area, you cannot get the help you need until you literally beg for it as I had to do.

 

[DesertPirate]

The only one that makes me go "WTF?" is the digital conversion project. Also I'm not certain what "Limitation on Administrative Expenses" is. Or what "$1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs" means.

The others seem like damned good ideas.

For example: $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire". It's pretty well known that the efforts to prevent forest fires wasn't such a good idea.

In nature, forest fires often occur. But they were rarely severe. They would burn away the brush while leaving the healthy trees pretty much intact. It was part of the cycle.

Many forests now have very severe undergrowth that feeds forest fires. The result has been more severe fires that destroy a fair bit of forest. These fires are often very hard to control. And some are very close to populated areas. I recall a few instances in the last few years where towns were burned out. It's possible in a very dry season to have fires like those that just hit Australia.

So this part of the bill means work crews will go into the woods to clear away the brush. They will be working, which they might not have been before. This means money they can spend for all kinds of things; like shelter and food to start.

It will also save money in the future for fighting a wild fire is a proposition that approaches the cost of a battle, which is a lot of money. It will also reduce the amount of money the government has to spend on disaster relief when towns are burned out.

So this is a good idea.

All the others seems like good ideas as well for similar reasons. They get people working now, or they are investments in the future or both.

And DP? Are you really against spending money on making sure people get safe drinking water? Because that's sure what it sounds like.

I'm saying that most of what is in that bill has nothing to do with stimulating the econmy. It is just a Democrat wet dream pork bill.

Many of the items you like will not create 200 jobs each, the Forrest service sum is one of those.

 

[DesertPirate]

Sure...let's not pay to keep those pesky injuns healthy. Let 'em all die out.

As it stands right now, there is no money at all after about June for any treatment whatsoever on reservations. None. Zip. An old saying goes, "Don't get sick after June."

But, of course, what should you care, right? Fucking racist.

eta: all those things will create jobs, directly or indirectly, which is the whole damn point. I'm sure that's a little hard for you to grasp, but it's true.

OK you moronic bitch let me explain this in simple words for your simple mind.

That part of the bill has nothing to do with stimulating the economy. It is a simple spending item that should be in the appropriate bill and I do hope they get that money. Just not as part of this bill.

 

[cloudy]

OK you moronic bitch let me explain this in simple words for your simple mind.

That part of the bill has nothing to do with stimulating the economy. It is a simple spending item that should be in the appropriate bill and I do hope they get that money. Just not as part of this bill.

Even though it'll create more healthcare jobs, it's still "pork."

http://a4.vox.com/6a00c225202d84f21900d4141b37446a47-320pi

 

[rgraham666]

I'm saying that most of what is in that bill has nothing to do with stimulating the econmy. It is just a Democrat wet dream pork bill.

Many of the items you like will not create 200 jobs each, the Forrest service sum is one of those.

Shrugs. I disagree. And perhaps we should wait and see before we get angry?

I also notice you didn't answer my question.

 

[cloudy]

Shrugs. I disagree. And perhaps we should wait and see before we get angry?

I also notice you didn't answer my question.

He won't, either, because he can't.

 

[sadangel]

Nevermind.