Help please from thoughtful submissive women.

[mutualpleasure_]

Hello,

I'd like to ask for the help of some thoughtful submissive women in mentoring and guiding a young woman who wants to explore an online then r/l submissive lifestyle.

She's 18, still in high school, and I want her to learn to keep herself safe physically and emotionally. Perhaps you'd know threads here to suggest, or be willing to chat with her so she learns how to avoid the dangers that exist.

My desire for her is that she learn that a submissive woman is a treasure to be celebrated and explored, not abused. I am talking to her from a D vantage point, but don't have the time or vantage point to teach her important lessons from your experience.

What do you wish you'd known, been supported in, when first starting this path?

And offers of concrete help by pm are always welcome. Thank you.



S

 

[mutualpleasure_]

Thanks so much!

I appreciate your generous responses.

 

[myinnerslut]

the standard response is to have her do some research. lit has a great library and plenty of threads touching on a multitude of topics. as she is 18 she can come onto lit herself and do some exploring, or hit any other number of websites online.

she will probably want to figure out *why* she wants to be submissive? is it a deep seated thing from when she was little? did she see a movie that talked about it and it pressed her buttons?

it would also help to find out what she expects and what she likes. a BDSM checklist (available online, just google it) might be of use there.

most important is communication. make sure you talk to her abotu how she feels on what it is your doing. give her an outlet, mabye a journal, to say how she feels and hat she feels after the fact.

pick out safewords so she can stop if it goes to far. especially online, you cant udge her body language and have to trust that she will tell you if it is just too much to handle.

dangers- abusers, HNG, inability to know when enough is enough, sub frenzy etc

i was a bit younger then her when i started (not on lit, in r/l) and while it can be difficult being the youngest, it certainly is doable.

ETA: there is a lot of information squished in there, if you have more specific questions just ask.

 

[Contrectation]

Ever intriguing - introducing someone to this subculture, path in life. The most secure path
is a mating between the resources she may review and a dialogue with someone who has the time, energy and patience to mentor her. Perhaps the ideal would be someone geographically remote, probably imbued with the curse of the 'wordsmith' (not restricted or dominated by BDSM themes) and older. Mentoring of this variety is possible but difficult to acquire. From her perspective her youth, eagerness and prevailing social norms precipitate the desire, compulsion for instant understanding and that is impossible. Yet, it is a worthwhile format because if she is unable to mold herself to an unfolding and progressive acquisition of her understanding it should serve as a test of her ability to submit.

 

[ZoGoZo]

Well, this is my own opinion and surely there are others. At eighteen one is just learning about themselves and exploring mentally, socially, physically, emotionally and sexually. It is not an age to commit to a submissive relationship, one is just not mature or experienced enough. An eighteen year old girl that is still in high school is vulnerable to older men they are attracted to. To enter into an SMBD relationship with her, I feel, would be taking advantage or her.

You come here yourself ignorant as to how to build a trusting relationship with a submissive. So you yourself have lack of experience. How old are you? If that is your pic on your profile you appear much older than her. What other SMBD relationships have you maintained? Have you given any thought as to what her mental status is and what this type of relationship may do to her? Why do you want to go out with a girl from high school? There are a million questions to ask about yourself and about her before you go on any further.

I know that in most states being eighteen is legal and consenting, but there are varying caveats that preclude the consent and make a relationship with an eighteen year old illegal.

In my above statements, I have been rather kind and objective - really I have. That is because if you were to even ponder a relationship with an eighteen year old daughter of mine that was still in high school I would assist with your pondering. You could ponder away 25/8 fully bound in a cave full of spiders and snakes until you came to the proper conclusion. The proper conclusion being that you would never ever set eyes, IRL or virtually, on my daughter ever again.

 

[Harmony_1985]

My desire for her is that she learn that a submissive woman is a treasure to be celebrated and explored, not abused. I am talking to her from a D vantage point, but don't have the time or vantage point to teach her important lessons from your experience.

Please do not take offense to this, but if you don't have the time to help her, then why not find someone else to help mentor her that can give her the time?

The best way she's going to "discover" what being submissive is about is to go into a D/s relationship with someone who has the skill to handle a "newbie" imo.

She'll need to take things slowly so she's not overwhelmed. I'm like a kid in a sweet shop atm, but Sir is having me take it slowly so that I can process everything and understand it.

If you can, take her to a munch, and have her talk with experienced people from the lifestyle. That's a bit part of my learning too. I've been to 3 munches so far (might be going to a 4th on sunday) and to hear other submissives talk about what it means to them and how they go about things in their relationship helps me alot.

I'd love to sit there with a note book and take notes, but I think I might get some funny looks if I did lol.

Like MIS said too, why does she feel she's submissive? That's a big learning curve lol.

 

[myinnerslut]

I know that in most states being eighteen is legal and consenting, but there are varying caveats that preclude the consent and make a relationship with an eighteen year old illegal.

In my above statements, I have been rather kind and objective - really I have. That is because if you were to even ponder a relationship with an eighteen year old daughter of mine that was still in high school I would assist with your pondering. You could ponder away 25/8 fully bound in a cave full of spiders and snakes until you came to the proper conclusion. The proper conclusion being that you would never ever set eyes, IRL or virtually, on my daughter ever again.

wow.

at 17 i began my first relationship as a submissive. at 19 i started talking to Master and at 20 i became his. Master is 15 years older then i, and i assure you i did not fall prey to him becuase i was younger then he.

while understandable that you want what you think is best for your daughter, the OP did not come here asking for permission. he came here asking for a way to help her learn and grow safely. i hope if your 18 year old (as you mentioned age of consent) has the luck to fall for someone her own age so as not to deal with the age bias you are showing.

 

[Harmony_1985]

wow.

at 17 i began my first relationship as a submissive. at 19 i started talking to Master and at 20 i became his. Master is 15 years older then i, and i assure you i did not fall prey to him becuase i was younger then he.

Amen, I'm 23 and Sir is 62, but he definately did not prey on me at all.

He leads the local munch, and I went to him LOL.

 

[ecstaticsub]

wow.

at 17 i began my first relationship as a submissive. at 19 i started talking to Master and at 20 i became his. Master is 15 years older then i, and i assure you i did not fall prey to him becuase i was younger then he.

while understandable that you want what you think is best for your daughter, the OP did not come here asking for permission. he came here asking for a way to help her learn and grow safely. i hope if your 18 year old (as you mentioned age of consent) has the luck to fall for someone her own age so as not to deal with the age bias you are showing.

As a Mom of a teenage daughter I can fully understand ZoGoZo's concerns. I know you are in a happy healthy relationship. But the truth is that there are plenty of older men who do prey on 18 and 19 yo olds without the best of intentions.

As much as I enjoy being my Daddy's submissive, and as much as I understand the inner craving to submit to him I would not want the same for my young daughter.

As a child grows up she submits constantly, sometimes (many times) against her will--to parents, teachers, grandparents etc. There is always someone telling a child what, where, who and how. I don't want my daughter to go from that to submitting to a partner of any age. I would rather her go out in the world and be in charge of herself without outside influences for at least a few years. If she wants to submit, Dominate, be vanilla, have a b/f 50 yrs older than her then ok. But I am of the belief that the early 20's are a rare time in your life where you can truly be in charge of yourself--before the responsibilities of a serious job, children, home ownership, marriage/committed relationship settles in.

Just as a full-disclosure--I met my husband when I was 16. We set our wedding date when I was 18. We are still very happily married today almost 30 years later. So I do believe that at 16 or 18 a person is capable of falling in love and knowing what they want in life, and who they want to be. But that is different than deciding to submit at that age.

I am not saying that someone who is under 20 is wrong or bad or anything negative if they do choose to submit at this age, it is just that as a mom I would not want it for my daughter.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Threads like this are when I feel the cultural differences between the USA and the UK most acutely.

In the UK aged 16 you can:

Have consensual heterosexual or homosexual sex.
Marry with parental consent.
Join the armed forces.

At 17 you can drive a car but you can't drink a beer in a bar till you're 18.

I've met 16 year olds who are more emotionally mature than some 30somethings I know. These rites of passage aren't really an indication of maturity and I can understand why people like MIS get defensive when their life choices are frowned upon specifically because of their age and comparative inexperience. Personally, I think that knowing what you want at 18 or 20 is way preferable to not having a clue till 40 and then having to throw your life into a 180 to get it before you're too old to care.

This girl that mutualpleasure is referring to seems to be trying to approach things the right way. Half the battle when it comes to acquiring knowledge is freely admitting that you haven't got a clue. She appears to be serious about submission and also about learning and experimenting in a SSC and informed way. You really can't ask more than that of a BDSM newbie of any age.

 

[Harmony_1985]

This girl that mutualpleasure is referring to seems to be trying to approach things the right way. Half the battle when it comes to acquiring knowledge is freely admitting that you haven't got a clue. She appears to be serious about submission and also about learning and experimenting in a SSC and informed way. You really can't ask more than that of a BDSM newbie of any age.

Definately. Alot of people dive in head first before they find out anything to do with safety and thats where I think, personally, alot of people get hurt.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Threads like this are when I feel the cultural differences between the USA and the UK most acutely.

In the UK aged 16 you can:

Have consensual heterosexual or homosexual sex.
Marry with parental consent.
Join the armed forces.

At 17 you can drive a car but you can't drink a beer in a bar till you're 18.

I've met 16 year olds who are more emotionally mature than some 30somethings I know. These rites of passage aren't really an indication of maturity and I can understand why people like MIS get defensive when their life choices are frowned upon specifically because of their age and comparative inexperience. Personally, I think that knowing what you want at 18 or 20 is way preferable to not having a clue till 40 and then having to throw your life into a 180 to get it before you're too old to care.

This girl that mutualpleasure is referring to seems to be trying to approach things the right way. Half the battle when it comes to acquiring knowledge is freely admitting that you haven't got a clue. She appears to be serious about submission and also about learning and experimenting in a SSC and informed way. You really can't ask more than that of a BDSM newbie of any age.

My feelings have nothing to do with level of maturity. Without any doubt my 14 yr old daughter is more mature than many people I know 10 years older than her. She is mentally very sexually mature. We have had some very interesting conversations and I am amazed how self assured and self aware she is.

However, I still would not want her to go from submitting to her parent's rules and authority directly to a Dominants. I want her to experience making all of her decisions for herself at least for a few years. I also wouldn't want her to be a Dominant. (or a Mom for that matter) I, ideally, would like her to be totally responsible for herself and only herself for a period of time. I feel the same way about my son.

BTW, I entered my first (and only) D/s relationship in my early 40's. It didn't turn my life into a 180. 40 really isn't that old . It just added another element to an already happy satisfied life.

 

[myinnerslut]

However, I still would not want her to go from submitting to her parent's rules and authority directly to a Dominants. I want her to experience making all of her decisions for herself at least for a few years. I also wouldn't want her to be a Dominant. (or a Mom for that matter) I, ideally, would like her to be totally responsible for herself and only herself for a period of time. I feel the same way about my son.

this sounds like an argument my father and i have constantly. he wants me to get an apartment. never mind that i dont want to live on my own. never mind that i get freaked out at night if im alone in the house. never mind that i dont have a o in the area yet with which to pay my bills and i have a house i can stay in for free which is where i want to be. my father wants me to be independent. which is well and good except for the fact that i dont want to be independent. i am more then happy, secure, and comfortable in myself to live with Master.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

However, I still would not want her to go from submitting to her parent's rules and authority directly to a Dominants. I want her to experience making all of her decisions for herself at least for a few years. I also wouldn't want her to be a Dominant. (or a Mom for that matter) I, ideally, would like her to be totally responsible for herself and only herself for a period of time. I feel the same way about my son.

BTW, I entered my first (and only) D/s relationship in my early 40's. It didn't turn my life into a 180. 40 really isn't that old . It just added another element to an already happy satisfied life.

this sounds like an argument my father and i have constantly. he wants me to get an apartment. never mind that i dont want to live on my own. never mind that i get freaked out at night if im alone in the house. never mind that i dont have a o in the area yet with which to pay my bills and i have a house i can stay in for free which is where i want to be. my father wants me to be independent. which is well and good except for the fact that i dont want to be independent. i am more then happy, secure, and comfortable in myself to live with Master.

There's merit and love in both of these posts, which just shows how personal and subjective an issue this is. Sometimes though, you just know these things from an early age and no amount of 'wait and see' will make it less right for you. I'm sure there are plenty of young adults who would not be able to handle exploring BDSM at such a young age but why should the mature, well informed minority be judged because of that?

There was a case in the UK a few years back where a couple died in an accident and left 4 kids orphaned. The eldest, an 18 year old girl, went through the courts to become legal guardian of her brothers and sister, whose ages ranged from 3 to 12. She won her case to prevent the children from going into the care system and took them on against the advice of a great many people. Yes, she was taking on a tough responsibility and limiting her own life options/education as a result but she was mature and passionate enough to want the chance to raise her siblings and keep the family together. I doubt it's the life her parents would have chosen for her but I also know from magazine articles she has done since that she doesn't regret her choice. Kids very rarely follow the life path their parents would wish for them but it doesn't necessarily mean their lives are less rich or less satisfying as a result.

Bit random perhaps but I hope you can understand what I'm trying to convey here.

 

[Homburg]

You have special, unique relationship with your children. You are there (hopefully) when they are born and watch them grow, pick them up when they fall, and are on hand for the learning of many of life's lessons. They are as much your flesh and blood as your own arm, and you would kill to keep them safe. (Obviously generalisations, some people don't feel this way.)

You look at your child, as he or she ages, and you wonder to yourself "what if" in regards to the lifestyle. You are in it (or at least aware of it), you know what it holds, and you know that regardless of how much you like it, you don't want your baby tied up and beaten black and blue. How much he or she wants it is immaterial.

Is this the right attitude? To reference the christian parable, are you so without sin that you can cast the stone? The argument exists that you want them making their own choices, being strong, and being independent, but, by default, choosing to be submissive (or dominant or a switch) is making their own choices. And, as we've all seen, each of those roles takes a hell of a lot of strength and personal conviction (in functional relationships). And, finally, are they really independent if they are following the path you set for them?

So do you want them to be independent period, or just independent of other influences aside from yours? (And, in case it isn't obvious, while it uses some of her wording, this post is not directed at ES. As you see above, my target is someone closer to my own situation, who, probably fortunately, does not read these boards.)

--

I have four kids. One shows seriously dominant leanings (socially, she is too young to have any sexual leanings). Eldest Daughter is In Charge. Two show serious submissive leanings, with one already displaying maso traits.

I have had these thoughts myself, which is why I am capable of expressing them. I look down at youngest daughter, recognise and admit that she is my baby and I would kill anyone that messes with her. Do I want her tied up and beaten? Hell no. I'm personally hoping that she grows out of these urges and has a happily mundane vanilla life. Is it because I've no respect for submission or some other bullshit? No, of course not. She is just my baby girl and I don't want anyone hurting her, even if she wants it.

My challenge here will be to let go enough to allow it to happen (once she reaches age of majority, and assuming she is still a wee maso then). Once she is 18, it is her life, and that is a lesson more parents would probably do well to learn. But, hey, I can say that, right? I don't have any kids at that age. Maybe when I get there I won't be holding on to these ethics like I am when it is safe to hold on to them. As a result, I don't judge or think poorly of parents that try to protect their offspring from themselves past the age of consent. I just ask questions like I do above, and hope that I will maintain the courage of my convictions when proximity to majority threatens them.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You have special, unique relationship with your children. You are there (hopefully) when they are born and watch them grow, pick them up when they fall, and are on hand for the learning of many of life's lessons. They are as much your flesh and blood as your own arm, and you would kill to keep them safe. (Obviously generalisations, some people don't feel this way.)

You look at your child, as he or she ages, and you wonder to yourself "what if" in regards to the lifestyle. You are in it (or at least aware of it), you know what it holds, and you know that regardless of how much you like it, you don't want your baby tied up and beaten black and blue. How much he or she wants it is immaterial.

Is this the right attitude? To reference the christian parable, are you so without sin that you can cast the stone? The argument exists that you want them making their own choices, being strong, and being independent, but, by default, choosing to be submissive (or dominant or a switch) is making their own choices. And, as we've all seen, each of those roles takes a hell of a lot of strength and personal conviction (in functional relationships). And, finally, are they really independent if they are following the path you set for them?

So do you want them to be independent period, or just independent of other influences aside from yours? (And, in case it isn't obvious, while it uses some of her wording, this post is not directed at ES. As you see above, my target is someone closer to my own situation, who, probably fortunately, does not read these boards.)

Thanks Homburg. That was pretty much what I was trying to say but somehow I went about it in a shockingly inarticulate fashion.

I'm not a parent and so I always feel a bit funny about getting into debates about kids when I have no experience to speak from. My best friend has 3 beautiful boys who I've known from birth (plus another kid due in April) so I'm not as clueless as someone who is not a parent and spends little or no time with kids/mothers. I would like to think that the philosophies I have developed about childrearing would remain pretty much as they are if I actually had kids. You can never tell though.

 

[working_girl]

Wow. When I think what I was up to at 18...

 

[ecstaticsub]

this sounds like an argument my father and i have constantly. he wants me to get an apartment. never mind that i dont want to live on my own. never mind that i get freaked out at night if im alone in the house. never mind that i dont have a o in the area yet with which to pay my bills and i have a house i can stay in for free which is where i want to be. my father wants me to be independent. which is well and good except for the fact that i dont want to be independent. i am more then happy, secure, and comfortable in myself to live with Master.

I understand, truly I do. I went from living at home, to living at college to having an apartment technically by myself but my fiance spent most nights with me until we got married 4 months later. I've never lived on my own. However, my relationship with my husband is not M/s or D/s. I also have to say that I regret now never having lived on my own, for at least a little while. But I fell in love with the lov eof my life at a earlier age then what I had planned. I wasn't going to put off marrying him just so I could experience living alone for a while. So I do understand your situation. You found a wonderful Master and a family who loves you and who you love. There is no reason to delay moving in with them.

But I understand the concerns of your father. Your parents will worry about you forever. It's the reality of giving birth. As soon your child comes into this world you worry about and love them forever. Try to be patient with them

 

[ecstaticsub]

There's merit and love in both of these posts, which just shows how personal and subjective an issue this is. Sometimes though, you just know these things from an early age and no amount of 'wait and see' will make it less right for you. I'm sure there are plenty of young adults who would not be able to handle exploring BDSM at such a young age but why should the mature, well informed minority be judged because of that?

There was a case in the UK a few years back where a couple died in an accident and left 4 kids orphaned. The eldest, an 18 year old girl, went through the courts to become legal guardian of her brothers and sister, whose ages ranged from 3 to 12. She won her case to prevent the children from going into the care system and took them on against the advice of a great many people. Yes, she was taking on a tough responsibility and limiting her own life options/education as a result but she was mature and passionate enough to want the chance to raise her siblings and keep the family together. I doubt it's the life her parents would have chosen for her but I also know from magazine articles she has done since that she doesn't regret her choice. Kids very rarely follow the life path their parents would wish for them but it doesn't necessarily mean their lives are less rich or less satisfying as a result.

Bit random perhaps but I hope you can understand what I'm trying to convey here.

I do understand and agree with what you are saying. I hope you realize that I am not passing judgement of any sort. I'm just being a concerned Mom

 

[ecstaticsub]

You have special, unique relationship with your children. You are there (hopefully) when they are born and watch them grow, pick them up when they fall, and are on hand for the learning of many of life's lessons. They are as much your flesh and blood as your own arm, and you would kill to keep them safe. (Obviously generalisations, some people don't feel this way.)

You look at your child, as he or she ages, and you wonder to yourself "what if" in regards to the lifestyle. You are in it (or at least aware of it), you know what it holds, and you know that regardless of how much you like it, you don't want your baby tied up and beaten black and blue. How much he or she wants it is immaterial.

Is this the right attitude? To reference the christian parable, are you so without sin that you can cast the stone? The argument exists that you want them making their own choices, being strong, and being independent, but, by default, choosing to be submissive (or dominant or a switch) is making their own choices. And, as we've all seen, each of those roles takes a hell of a lot of strength and personal conviction (in functional relationships). And, finally, are they really independent if they are following the path you set for them?

So do you want them to be independent period, or just independent of other influences aside from yours? (And, in case it isn't obvious, while it uses some of her wording, this post is not directed at ES. As you see above, my target is someone closer to my own situation, who, probably fortunately, does not read these boards.)

Over the last year I have spent many many hours soul searching and trying to come to terms with the double standard where submission is ok for me but not my children. Interestingly it is not that I am unable to imagine them being beaten, tied up, humiliated, etc--what I consider the physical part of a D/s or M/s relationship. I am strangly ok with that. I hope that they would tell me and speak to me about it.( I also will probably fill their inbox with safety information )
But I have a problem with the submission part of it for them early in their 20's. My children are like me. When they do something they do it with all their heart. They are amazingly obedient, just like myself.

I was a bit of a wild child in my 20's. If I was a submissive then (especially to the Dominant I have now) I never would have done any of the things that I did. I would have been more cautious and less adventuous on my own. Yes, I would have had other experiences. Experiences he chose for me, and they may have been things I never would have dreamed of doing and been very daring and adventuous also. But they would have been for him. Dominants are selfish (more or less by definition) They want things to be done their way. I want my children to be able to do things their way, to make mistakes and meet challenges on their own. At least for a few years.

You ask if they are really independent if they are following the path I set for them. I understand what you are saying. I'm not telling them exactly what to do. I'm not going to tell them what job to take, or where to live or who to be with. But I don't want anyone else making these decisions for either of them. As a submissive things come up over and over again where I have to go against what I want in order to do what my Dominant wants me to do. Some things are minor, some are more important decisions. I enjoy being owned. I enjoy his power over me when it comes to these decisions. But I have already had a chance to be free and independent.

All I want is for my children to have at least a little while to be fully independent.

I will love them and support them in whatever way they decide to live their life. But I will also give them my opinions on whatever they do. (hopefully gently and without anger or judgement )

 

[Homburg]

That really is all we can do as parents, at least that's what I tell myself when I fret about it.

In my own case, I have my own set of unpleasant realisations to deal with. I went through a lot of this shortly before I met MIS' dad. He knew what sort of relationship we had, and thus had an idea of what I was doing. I couldn't help but put myself into his shoes and imagine how _I_ would react. It was a troubling period for me, and lead to more than a few fitful nights.

I keep telling myself that I need to be cool with their decisions, yet I know myself too well. Any boy that hurts youngest daughter is in direct danger of being put through a wall. This sort of reaction is not exactly correspondent to "It's her life and she'll live it how she wants." *sigh*

 

[minx1]

[mini hijack]

Hi S. Hope you are well!

Happy New Year to you and yours.

Will try to add something useful later on

[/hijack]

 

[mutualpleasure_]

No offense taken...

But part of the problem is we're not local to one another, and I don't trust most of the so-called Dom's around. As others here have pointed out, it can be hit or miss... and I care what happens to her.

If she were my daughter I would want her to receive the care of supportive people as she explores. Too many doms imo see it as treating a sub roughly and barking orders. I want more for her.

I care about her even though I have time limitations and am hesitant to enter a ldr D/s relationship that's full time. I'm clear on that and working to help here and in other ways.

Please do not take offense to this, but if you don't have the time to help her, then why not find someone else to help mentor her that can give her the time?

The best way she's going to "discover" what being submissive is about is to go into a D/s relationship with someone who has the skill to handle a "newbie" imo.

She'll need to take things slowly so she's not overwhelmed. I'm like a kid in a sweet shop atm, but Sir is having me take it slowly so that I can process everything and understand it.

If you can, take her to a munch, and have her talk with experienced people from the lifestyle. That's a bit part of my learning too. I've been to 3 munches so far (might be going to a 4th on sunday) and to hear other submissives talk about what it means to them and how they go about things in their relationship helps me alot.

I'd love to sit there with a note book and take notes, but I think I might get some funny looks if I did lol.

Like MIS said too, why does she feel she's submissive? That's a big learning curve lol.

 

[mutualpleasure_]

Thank you,

My thanks to you all, Homburg, velvetdarkness, ecstaticsub, myinnerslut, contrectation, zogozo, and harmony....

I care about those who submit to me. I appreciate your taking time to thoughtfully respond. As a parent myself, it does make a difference what the quality of persons are that my kids bring into their lives.

I am protective of submissives in general. Not unlike Homburg, my warrior energy rises at the thought of someone being taken advantage of. Submission is an act of deep freedom and liberation. I want that quality of life for this young woman.

And again I wish to express my appreciation to those of you who have volunteered time and assistance via pm's.

 

[mutualpleasure_]

-appreciative pinch on your butt

-warm smile

[mini hijack]

Hi S. Hope you are well!

Happy New Year to you and yours.

Will try to add something useful later on

[/hijack]