Beyond Words

[Misty_Morning]

This is ....just beyond words:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27005221/



Dunno...All I can think is that he's likely to be a future mass murderer.

 

[Safe_Bet]

This is ....just beyond words:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27005221/



Dunno...All I can think is that he's likely to be a future mass murderer.

OMG! and he's only 7 years old? Where the hell were his parents??? That little shit would have calluses on his ass when I got done with him and THEN he'd start working off the $5,500 (which I think is way too cheap!)

 

[TE999]

This is ....just beyond words:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27005221/



Dunno...All I can think is that he's likely to be a future mass murderer.

I read about that sadistic little fuck already!

You're right on the money with the mass murderer prediction. He needs to be locked up now...or lobotomized.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

This is ....just beyond words:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27005221/



Dunno...All I can think is that he's likely to be a future mass murderer.

Maybe not a mass murderer, but a serial killer who will like to torture his victims. The law better keep their eyes on this one. Too bad he didn't fall into the pond with the croc.

 

[Misty_Morning]

OMG! and he's only 7 years old? Where the hell were his parents??? That little shit would have calluses on his ass when I got done with him and THEN he'd start working off the $5,500 (which I think is way too cheap!)

I would tend to agree with you.

However, for a child this young to exhibit such behavior I am wondering if there isn't some type of cruelty that he has to live with daily.

But don't get me wrong, I do aslo believe that some individuals are truly born with out a conscience.

I'm curious as to his home life and/or any OTHER psychological issues he has.

 

[epiphany65]

Hopefully he gets some help before he gets more violent. This could be just the beginning otherwise. But -- people aren't born this way. It's a reaction to anger and frustration to what has been done to them. Chances are he has been victimized by someone and this possibility needs to be investigated in order to help him and curb or eradicate this sort of behaviour.

 

[Misty_Morning]

Hopefully he gets some help before he gets more violent. This could be just the beginning otherwise. But -- people aren't born this way. It's a reaction to anger and frustration to what has been done to them. Chances are he has been victimized by someone and this possibility needs to be investigated in order to help him and curb or eradicate this sort of behaviour.

So...you are saying that it is nature versus nurture?

Dunno about that.

Speaking from experience, my younger brother is an evil person. Similar to this person when he was younger.

I do believe that SOME individuals are born without the ability to control themselves or the ability to "care" about others. Thus my statement about born without a conscience.

Since this happened down under...Maybe Starkkers can keep us updated as I am curious to learn more facts and the story will probably be lost here in the US cuz of all the election BS.

 

[Safe_Bet]

So...you are saying that it is nature versus nurture?

Dunno about that.

Speaking from experience, my younger brother is an evil person. Similar to this person when he was younger.

I do believe that SOME individuals are born without the ability to control themselves or the ability to "care" about others. Thus my statement about born without a conscience.

Since this happened down under...Maybe Starkkers can keep us updated as I am curious to learn more facts and the story will probably be lost here in the US cuz of all the election BS.

Here's an interesting article on the psychology of mass murders. LINK


Botton line is that they don't know shit about why!

 

[TE999]

So...you are saying that it is nature versus nurture?

Dunno about that.

Speaking from experience, my younger brother is an evil person. Similar to this person when he was younger.

I do believe that SOME individuals are born without the ability to control themselves or the ability to "care" about others. Thus my statement about born without a conscience.

They're called Sociopaths. Not a compassionate bone in their body.

Jeffery Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy are two examples.

Whatever the motivation, they better put an ankle bracelet on this kid.

 

[epiphany65]

So...you are saying that it is nature versus nurture?

Dunno about that.

Speaking from experience, my younger brother is an evil person. Similar to this person when he was younger.

I do believe that SOME individuals are born without the ability to control themselves or the ability to "care" about others. Thus my statement about born without a conscience.

Since this happened down under...Maybe Starkkers can keep us updated as I am curious to learn more facts and the story will probably be lost here in the US cuz of all the election BS.

I don't believe this is a case of nature v. nurture -- it's probably 100% nurture. There was no mention of prior mental problems. Notwithstanding some sort of genetic or chemical disorder (eg. schizophrenia,which he is too young to have already manefest) we're shaped by our environments and I believe this is the case with this child -- assuming he wasn't born with some sort of psychological disorder. What he's doing is acting out or exhibiting learned behaviour. I'm not trying to excuse it or say it wasn't horrible, but he will get worse without getting to the root cause of why he did this.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

According to FBI estimates, 1/2 of 1% of any given population is psychotic. In a large enough population it gets scary! And, by that set of numbers, there's a good chance that at least on kid in my school is one . . . just like our little pervert from Down Under. We keep an eye peeled, let me tell you, 'cause we've sent them to psychiatric hospitals before and will again.

 

[Misty_Morning]

I don't believe this is a case of nature v. nurture -- it's probably 100% nurture. There was no mention of prior mental problems. Notwithstanding some sort of genetic or chemical disorder (eg. schizophrenia,which he is too young to have already manefest) we're shaped by our environments and I believe this is the case with this child -- assuming he wasn't born with some sort of psychological disorder. What he's doing is acting out or exhibiting learned behaviour. I'm not trying to excuse it or say it wasn't horrible, but he will get worse without getting to the root cause of why he did this.

I am not discounting your opinion. I personlally think that "nuture" is the root cause to most disfunctional individuals in society. But I sincerely believe that that is not the case in every instance.

I am just really curious given the age of the child.

No matter what....this is seriously fucked up.



And as Sfe Bets has pointed out...I think most kids would have had their asses tanned for such a thing.

Personally, I DO believe in corporal punishment in certain cicumstances. It's called negative reinforcement. But I think that such occations should be a rarity.

Ya know...sometimes I get sick from hearing about the abuses that happen to children for basically being kids. The news is full of them daily. Everyone is disgusted by the reports, but ...most of the time...no one wants to get invloved.

At some point...we have to get involved if we want to break the cycle.

 

[epiphany65]

I am not discounting your opinion. I personlally think that "nuture" is the root cause to most disfunctional individuals in society. But I sincerely believe that that is not the case in every instance.

I am just really curious given the age of the child.

No matter what....this is seriously fucked up.



And as Sfe Bets has pointed out...I think most kids would have had their asses tanned for such a thing.

Personally, I DO believe in corporal punishment in certain cicumstances. It's called negative reinforcement. But I think that such occations should be a rarity.

Ya know...sometimes I get sick from hearing about the abuses that happen to children for basically being kids. The news is full of them daily. Everyone is disgusted by the reports, but ...most of the time...no one wants to get invloved.

At some point...we have to get involved if we want to break the cycle.

I agree with you. I had an uncle who was schizophrenic. He had kind, loving parents, but he still tried to kill them. He was born that way, for some reason that psychologists argue about still. It had nothing to do with his environment or upbringing and unfortunately some people are just born that way, just like some are born with blue eyes or blond hair. But, others also turn bad (or evil) because of their life experiences.

ETA: I disagree about the corporal punishment part though. And to nit-pick... technically it's not negative reinforcement, it's punishment. Negative reinforcement (from a psychological standpoint) is denying someone a reward but not subjecting them to pain or discomfort. Punishment is inflicting pain or a negative stimuli.... but I know I'm getting really technical here.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I agree with you. I had an uncle who was schizophrenic. He had kind, loving parents, but he still tried to kill them. He was born that way, for some reason that psychologists argue about still. It had nothing to do with his environment or upbringing and unfortunately some people are just born that way, just like some are born with blue eyes or blond hair. But, others also turn bad (or evil) because of their life experiences.

ETA: I disagree about the corporal punishment part though. And to nit-pick... technically it's not negative reinforcement, it's punishment. Negative reinforcement (from a psychological standpoint) is denying someone a reward but not subjecting them to pain or discomfort. Punishment is inflicting pain or a negative stimuli.... but I know I'm getting really technical here.

I'm not all up on the semantics, but a quick swat on the tushy is an effective and immediate negative consequence. I probably shouldn't have said "beat his ass till it has calluses", but there does need to be major and immediate negative consequences for bad behavior.

I have two perfect little angels that have each gotten two or three "swats" in their lives. They understand that if you do something bad, you will be immediate repercussions. I don't think that is a bad thing.

 

[epiphany65]

I'm not all up on the semantics, but a quick swat on the tushy is an effective and immediate negative consequence. I probably shouldn't have said "beat his ass till it has calluses", but there does need to be major and immediate negative consequences for bad behavior.

I have two perfect little angels that have each gotten two or three "swats" in their lives. They understand that if you do something bad, you will be immediate repercussions. I don't think that is a bad thing.

If a swat on the ass would cure this child's problems then I'd be up for it, but I don't believe it would. In fact, corporal punishment only teaches children that violence is a legitimate way to get what you want and they in turn do it to others to exert their will. Not all bad behaviour can be eradicated by punishment. No amount of punishment will cure a pedophile or serial killer because the problem is in the mind and I'm sure that this child's problems need a more thoughtful and compassionate approach than inflicting pain.

 

[Misty_Morning]

I'm not all up on the semantics, but a quick swat on the tushy is an effective and immediate negative consequence. I probably shouldn't have said "beat his ass till it has calluses", but there does need to be major and immediate negative consequences for bad behavior.

I have two perfect little angels that have each gotten two or three "swats" in their lives. They understand that if you do something bad, you will be immediate repercussions. I don't think that is a bad thing.

Agreed. Negative reinforcement applied at the approriate time in the appropriate amount can be beneficial. I believe this to be true.

But unfortunately some folks don't stop at a swat or two.

They have to get the belt or any other implement readily at hand. And then they can't stop or they just don't care enough to stop. Then it becomes a habit. And every little infraction is "worthy" of a beating...cuz..."they need to be taught a lesson". But in reality...the administer finds gratitude in the suffering and/or total control he/she has over another person.

Some folks may think that a person is dead wrong to EVER strike a child as a form of punishment. Others have the opinion that there wasn't enough.


To me...there is a BIG difference between spanking a child and beating a child.


Going back to the original question ( if there was one)....was this child a victim of abuse and acting out because of that...or is this child a victim of biology?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Maybe the croc was hungry.

I think the boy was caring and sensitive.

 

[epiphany65]

.

Going back to the original question ( if there was one)....was this child a victim of abuse and acting out because of that...or is this child a victim of biology?

Exactly! I just hope he gets help, not only for his sake, but for the sake of society because I think one day he'll be harming humans instead of animals otherwise.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Agreed. Negative reinforcement applied at the approriate time in the appropriate amount can be beneficial. I believe this to be true.

But unfortunately some folks don't stop at a swat or two.

They have to get the belt or any other implement readily at hand. And then they can't stop or they just don't care enough to stop. Then it becomes a habit. And every little infraction is "worthy" of a beating...cuz..."they need to be taught a lesson". But in reality...the administer finds gratitude in the suffering and/or total control he/she has over another person.

Some folks may think that a person is dead wrong to EVER strike a child as a form of punishment. Others have the opinion that there wasn't enough.


To me...there is a BIG difference between spanking a child and beating a child.


Going back to the original question ( if there was one)....was this child a victim of abuse and acting out because of that...or is this child a victim of biology?

Without a serious family history, we will never know but I am inclined to suspect that "lack of empathy" is involved here and that isn't a question of nuture. Whether it is treatable is a good question. Does it have a good answer?

 

[Misty_Morning]

Maybe the croc was hungry.

I think the boy was caring and sensitive.

Hey, you old fart!

Nice AV.

How about lending some of your true wisdom in this matter to the thread and not being a total asshat.

 

[Misty_Morning]

Without a serious family history, we will never know but I am inclined to suspect that "lack of empathy" is involved here and that isn't a question of nuture. Whether it is treatable is a good question. Does it have a good answer?

What type of treatment would be suitable?

Do you isolate the child from any further social interaction, or do you take a chance and "hope" that the touchy feely approach will work...all the while praying that he doesn't act out again...?

 

[cloudy]

What the hell is a seven-year-old doing out like that without an adult?

I'd be kicking somebody's ass - either my young'un's, or whoever was supposed to be watching him.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

What the hell is a seven-year-old doing out like that without an adult?

I'd be kicking somebody's ass - either my young'un's, or whoever was supposed to be watching him.

None of yours would have ever gotten that far. I still think there's something organically wrong with that boy.

 

[Misty_Morning]

ETA: I disagree about the corporal punishment part though. And to nit-pick... technically it's not negative reinforcement, it's punishment. Negative reinforcement (from a psychological standpoint) is denying someone a reward but not subjecting them to pain or discomfort. Punishment is inflicting pain or a negative stimuli.... but I know I'm getting really technical here.

Gotta disagree with you here. Negative reinforcement can be the denial of a reward as you have stated...but it can also be the establishing negative outcome when one does not adhere to the basic fundamentals of of society.

But here we go again....whose fundamentals are we to adhere to?

As far as children are concerned...just to give extremely basic examples....do not bring harm to another living creature....and do NOT keep drinking and backwashing my drink when I am not looking...OK....the last one is just a joke. But Geez....it's so gross....and yet somehow I always end up laughing....and then there's NO hope for negative reinforcement after that. HA!

 

[cloudy]

If a swat on the ass would cure this child's problems then I'd be up for it, but I don't believe it would. In fact, corporal punishment only teaches children that violence is a legitimate way to get what you want and they in turn do it to others to exert their will.

Let me guess: you don't have any kids, do you?

Every single person I've ever heard say something like this has, without fail, been young and childless. Try explaining to a two-year-old why, exactly, he can't stick a fork in an electrical outlet, or wander off, or run out into the horse pasture, or pick up that pretty snake. You can't reason with a toddler. JUST. CAN'T.

There are five kids in my family. We regularly got spankings if we deserved it. None of us is "violent." I have three children: the oldest will be twenty-eight this month and the youngest is eight. The oldest has her master's degree in social anthropology and is horrified by violence, yet she got her share of "corporal punishment" when she was younger. Next oldest just started college, and I had to literally make him stick up for himself when he was in grammar school, despite the fact that he's had his black belt in tai kwon do since he was twelve. I expect the youngest will be much like his older siblings.

What you've stated is a bunch of hogwash - sorry. BTW: I'm almost through with my master's in psychology, so I've heard those theories too. Don't believe a damn word of them.

None of yours would have ever gotten that far.

Damn straight. My kids respect me, as well as love me, and they know exactly what life would be like if they even approached the idea of doing something like that.