Beyond Words

[Misty_Morning]

Ya know... with all the posts here and taking into account all the news reports of child abuse....


Has anyone here ever acted to stop the abuse?

HAve you ever stepped out of your safe little world of not-wanting-to get-involved that you have ever been proactive in the deterement of abuse. Abuse that could later lead other crimes by the victim becoming an offender?


JUst curious.

 

[Guest]

How fortunate for you. My child usually responds well to loss of privileges for negative behavior and rewards for good behavior, but she's also a daredevil. She was three the first time I found her in the top of a tree. I nearly had a heart attack.

In that case, I smiled and told her it was time to come down. She did so without argument and I asked her not to climb so high next time. No punishment was warranted. But when I found her on top of the neighbor's garage a year later, I had myself a fit. That was her first swat, after I calmed down and talked to her about how dangerous it was. If she had hit the concrete below, I've little doubt I wouldn't have a child now.

Last month my mom had her for a weekend and took her and my nieces to the local pool. Mom was doing her quarter-hour head count and the princess was missing. After looking around, Mom looked up just in time to see her fly off the high-dive. I can tell you from experience the Mom yanked her out of that water fast enough to drain the pool. The princess learned not to scare the living shit out of grandma that day.

My sister had two sons. One pushes the envelope every chance he gets. The other knew better than to get caught. One got spankings. The other didn't. Both turned out to be stellar young men with the same values and same level of adjustment.

Exactly.

Which is why I said they work for us.

Every child is different, the little shits.

 

[Guest]

Ya know... with all the posts here and taking into account all the news reports of child abuse....


Has anyone here ever acted to stop the abuse?

HAve you ever stepped out of your safe little world of not-wanting-to get-involved that you have ever been proactive in the deterement of abuse. Abuse that could later lead other crimes by the victim becoming an offender?


JUst curious.

Yes.

As an educator, it is required by law to report signs of abuse.

As a caring human, I'd report it anyway.

 

[Misty_Morning]

Well, at 16, one is too old for a spanking (at least in my opinion). By that time, what your father said was worse. It hits home hard.

Just to note...my last spanking/beating was when I was 11 at the hands of my offcentered mother.

I must say, in my fathers deffense....he didn't mean his words to be cruel or abusive. We discussed the situation and he spoke his mind. He was always and still is a very peaceful and gentle man and his words were meant to express his dissapointment. They were not ment to hurt. AND THAT IS WHY THEY HURT.

And that is why they were effective.

 

[SweetWitch]

Ya know... with all the posts here and taking into account all the news reports of child abuse....


Has anyone here ever acted to stop the abuse?

HAve you ever stepped out of your safe little world of not-wanting-to get-involved that you have ever been proactive in the deterement of abuse. Abuse that could later lead other crimes by the victim becoming an offender?


JUst curious.

I took two children away from some neighbors who were getting drunker by the minute and railing at the kids. I drove them to their grandmother's house. When I told the woman what was going on and she saw the bruises, she called an attorney and ended up with custody of the kids.

And then my tires were slashed, my apartment was broken into and my life was threatened.

Does that count?

 

[SweetWitch]

Exactly.

Which is why I said they work for us.

Every child is different, the little shits.

My child usually listens and I swear I have little to complain about, but she's determined to scare the life out of me.

Still, I'd rather have her that way (spankings and all) than to have her be a shrinking shadow. I want my daughter to grab life by the balls. She's got a good start at it.

Oh, crap. I should be writing and I'm procrastinating. Sigh.

 

[TE999]

It's OK...or I should say...I'm OK.

I have long believed that just because a woman spurts you out of her uterus..it doesn't make her a mother.

Thankfully, I am one that learned this without going "bad". But others were not as fortunate.

And again...it makes me wonder about the boy whose actions warranted this thread....

Good to hear, Misty. Your strength and attitude are commendable.

It does make one wonder what sort of environment that boy has been reared in, and what he's experienced to make him that soulless.

Or he could simply be a bad seed.

 

[Guest]

My child usually listens and I swear I have little to complain about, but she's determined to scare the life out of me.

Still, I'd rather have her that way (spankings and all) than to have her be a shrinking shadow. I want my daughter to grab life by the balls. She's got a good start at it.

Oh, crap. I should be writing and I'm procrastinating. Sigh.

Would you like some rum?

It's been a helluva week.

 

[Misty_Morning]

Yes.

As an educator, it is required by law to report signs of abuse.

As a caring human, I'd report it anyway.

But, have you ever been in a store and seen a parent verbally abuse or strike a child?

Did you say anything?

Other than in the classroom...do you get involved?

Mind you, I am fnot focusing on "you"......I am focusing on "YOU"..as in everyone...and that includes me...


Gonna say it....I have gotten involved a few times...but because of the negative BS that takes place for folks that report the "SHIT"....other times...I just look the other way.

 

[SweetWitch]

Would you like some rum?

It's been a helluva week.

Got any vodka? I could use a drink.

 

[Guest]

Got any vodka? I could use a drink.

No vodka.

Just beer and rum.

But I like to share.

 

[Guest]

But, have you ever been in a store and seen a parent verbally abuse or strike a child?

Did you say anything?

Other than in the classroom...do you get involved?

Mind you, I am fnot focusing on "you"......I am focusing on "YOU"..as in everyone...and that includes me...


Gonna say it....I have gotten involved a few times...but because of the negative BS that takes place for folks that report the "SHIT"....other times...I just look the other way.

As a matter of fact just tonight I got into an argument with a stupid mom.

After the high school football game the lines of cars were endless as we exited the parking lot.

A woman had her two girls stand in front of my car all of a sudden so she could pull out. They looked at me and said - we're not moving.

I put my car in park, said - fine, I won't go anywhere, but you need to move because it isn't safe between the two cars.

They wouldn't move.

I waited, patiently, until bitch momma pulled out, then she had the audacity to open her door and yell at me.

I yelled back, told her she was a ridiculous parent to allow her children to be in danger in traffic in this manner. She stalked back to her car and left.

Stupid bitch.

 

[Misty_Morning]

I took two children away from some neighbors who were getting drunker by the minute and railing at the kids. I drove them to their grandmother's house. When I told the woman what was going on and she saw the bruises, she called an attorney and ended up with custody of the kids.

And then my tires were slashed, my apartment was broken into and my life was threatened.

Does that count?

Been there....and I am sad to say that that type of shit is one reason I look away.....And I am ashamed to admit it. I am not part of the solution...I am part of the problem.

 

[SweetWitch]

No vodka.

Just beer and rum.

But I like to share.

Got so sick on rum once that I was down for three days. To this day, I still can't stand the smell of it. LOL.

As a matter of fact just tonight I got into an argument with a stupid mom.

After the high school football game the lines of cars were endless as we exited the parking lot.

A woman had her two girls stand in front of my car all of a sudden so she could pull out. They looked at me and said - we're not moving.

I put my car in park, said - fine, I won't go anywhere, but you need to move because it isn't safe between the two cars.

They wouldn't move.

I waited, patiently, until bitch momma pulled out, then she had the audacity to open her door and yell at me.

I yelled back, told her she was a ridiculous parent to allow her children to be in danger in traffic in this manner. She stalked back to her car and left.

Stupid bitch.

Like the saying goes, you need a license to drive a car, fish and even own a dog, but they'll let any idiot breed.

 

[cloudy]

My child usually listens and I swear I have little to complain about, but she's determined to scare the life out of me.

Still, I'd rather have her that way (spankings and all) than to have her be a shrinking shadow. I want my daughter to grab life by the balls. She's got a good start at it.

My two youngest are boys. I swear if I'd had a boy first instead of a girl, I'd have had only one child, that's it. They're both really good kids (well, Spawn's not really a kid anymore, but you know what I mean), but they're boys.

Boys belong to their mamas, but damn...they sure make you pay for it every single day.

 

[Misty_Morning]

Like the saying goes, you need a license to drive a car, fish and even own a dog, but they'll let any idiot breed.

And they won't let good folks that happen to be gay to marry. As recognized by the federal government.


Sorry, just had to blurt that.

 

[Misty_Morning]

My two youngest are boys. I swear if I'd had a boy first instead of a girl, I'd have had only one child, that's it. They're both really good kids (well, Spawn's not really a kid anymore, but you know what I mean), but they're boys.

Boys belong to their mamas, but damn...they sure make you pay for it every single day.

Oh hush Cloudy! They keep you young!

How else are you gonna know whats hip?

 

[cloudy]

Oh hush Cloudy! They keep you young!

How else are you gonna know whats hip?

I don't know about that, but I can sure yell loud enough to wake the whole damn neighborhood.

 

[starrkers]

Hopefully he gets some help before he gets more violent. This could be just the beginning otherwise. But -- people aren't born this way. It's a reaction to anger and frustration to what has been done to them. Chances are he has been victimized by someone and this possibility needs to be investigated in order to help him and curb or eradicate this sort of behaviour.

Bull pucky. Some kids ARE born that way. My elder brother being a case in point. As a child he did mindlessly destructive things and once threw a dog off a second storey balcony just because. He grew up to be a child molester and wife beater. Thankfully he is no longer breathing.
He was never mistreated, abused or taught to be cruel. He recieved the same upbringing as his siblings. We turned out fine.

Since this happened down under...Maybe Starkkers can keep us updated as I am curious to learn more facts and the story will probably be lost here in the US cuz of all the election BS.

Will do, though how much more I'll see is debatable. This happened in Alice Springs.

Let me guess: you don't have any kids, do you?

Every single person I've ever heard say something like this has, without fail, been young and childless. Try explaining to a two-year-old why, exactly, he can't stick a fork in an electrical outlet, or wander off, or run out into the horse pasture, or pick up that pretty snake. You can't reason with a toddler. JUST. CAN'T.

There are five kids in my family. We regularly got spankings if we deserved it. None of us is "violent." I have three children: the oldest will be twenty-eight this month and the youngest is eight. The oldest has her master's degree in social anthropology and is horrified by violence, yet she got her share of "corporal punishment" when she was younger. Next oldest just started college, and I had to literally make him stick up for himself when he was in grammar school, despite the fact that he's had his black belt in tai kwon do since he was twelve. I expect the youngest will be much like his older siblings.

What you've stated is a bunch of hogwash - sorry. BTW: I'm almost through with my master's in psychology, so I've heard those theories too. Don't believe a damn word of them.



Damn straight. My kids respect me, as well as love me, and they know exactly what life would be like if they even approached the idea of doing something like that.

Agree 100%.

 

[SweetWitch]

[/B]

And they won't let good folks that happen to be gay to marry. As recognized by the federal government.


Sorry, just had to blurt that.

I have two really good friends who live together as life-partners. Geo lost his sister to a car wreck. She left behind two small children and an ex husband no one has seen since the youngest was born.

Geo adopted the kids and he and his partner are raising them. They are the best two dads you'd ever see. They have two kids that would make any parent proud, but when social services were investigating Geo prior to the adoption, the matter of his relationship with *gasp* another man was called into question. If not for his mother stepping in to bear witness for him, I doubt he would have been able to adopt the kids.

And now those kids have one of the most stable families I've ever seen. They're in their early teens now, well-adjusted and full of laughter. Yet, whenever there is a minor issue (such as an arguement with classmates or such) the men's relationship is the first issue that is brought up. It boggles the mind.

 

[epiphany65]

Bull pucky. Some kids ARE born that way. My elder brother being a case in point. As a child he did mindlessly destructive things and once threw a dog off a second storey balcony just because. He grew up to be a child molester and wife beater. Thankfully he is no longer breathing.
He was never mistreated, abused or taught to be cruel. He recieved the same upbringing as his siblings. We turned out fine.

I also said "Notwithstanding some sort of genetic or chemical disorder (eg. schizophrenia,which he is too young to have already manefest) we're shaped by our environments and I believe this is the case with this child -- assuming he wasn't born with some sort of psychological disorder." This would account for your notion of people being born that way. Sometimes the brain just goes haywire, even in infancy or perhaps before.

 

[SweetWitch]

Bull pucky. Some kids ARE born that way. My elder brother being a case in point. As a child he did mindlessly destructive things and once threw a dog off a second storey balcony just because. He grew up to be a child molester and wife beater. Thankfully he is no longer breathing.
He was never mistreated, abused or taught to be cruel. He recieved the same upbringing as his siblings. We turned out fine.

I'm sorry about your brother.

It's true that some people are just born with a piece or two missing. Some children are born without eyes or without heart valves. Some are born with forms of mental retardation. It only stands to reason that some are born with certain social inabilities -- such as lack of conscience.

We all know someone who just doesn't seem quite right. Maybe you can't put your finger on it, but there's something that's unsettling there. Most of us have someone like that in our families.

Ours is a great uncle. He's gone now, but I was terrified of him as a child. I didn't find out until he was dead the reason for it. The man had no soul. He was always smiling and spoke with a gentle voice, but he had many secrets -- all of them horrifying. There was a reason that all our mothers never allowed us to be alone with him. I shudder every time I think about him.

 

[Weird Harold]

All I can say to try to refute that is that out of 3 siblings I was the only one that was never spanked -- not even once -- and my mother claimed that I turned out to be the best and most well-adjusted... many would disagree.

Not every child requires corporal punishment and corporal punishment does no good at all for other children. It's up to the parents to figure out what works for each child -- something that most parents have a great deal of difficulty understanding.

When it comes to something like making sure a todder doesn't stick a fork in an electrical socket the parent bares responsibility to child-proof the house too.

It is far more important to house-proof the child than it is to child-proof the house. And it is NOT difficult to houseproof a child as soon as they can move from one place to another by themselves -- but it cannot be done by reasoning with them because they have no language skills at the age when house-proofing is most effectively done.

But this thread began with the actions of a 7 yr.-old, not a toddler. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

The actions of a seven-year-old are controlled -- or not controlled, as the case may be -- by the parenting that was done for the first six years of life. If the foundation of discipline and social graces aren't in place by age seven, it is very difficult to impossible to instill andy sdiscipline or social graces.

The Jesuits had a fairly famous motto for educating young nobles: Give me a child for the first seven years and I shal give you the man he will become. It wasn't an idle boast in the middle ages and it's a sound, time tested, principle of child-rearing today -- unless you listen to childless liberals who "know right from wrong."

 

[epiphany65]

The Jesuits had a fairly famous motto for educating young nobles: Give me a child for the first seven years and I shal give you the man he will become. It wasn't an idle boast in the middle ages and it's a sound, time tested, principle of child-rearing today -- unless you listen to childless liberals who "know right from wrong."

Ya, and we all know how much we can trust priests with children...

 

[joeys-game]

I don't believe this is a case of nature v. nurture -- it's probably 100% nurture. There was no mention of prior mental problems. Notwithstanding some sort of genetic or chemical disorder (eg. schizophrenia,which he is too young to have already manefest) we're shaped by our environments and I believe this is the case with this child -- assuming he wasn't born with some sort of psychological disorder. What he's doing is acting out or exhibiting learned behaviour. I'm not trying to excuse it or say it wasn't horrible, but he will get worse without getting to the root cause of why he did this.

its rare but it happens..childhood schizophrenia