Beyond Abstinence

[WRJames]

Okay -- we are all laughing at Sarah Palin because she doesn't support any sex education in the schools other than teaching abstinence.

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Okay -- we are all laughing at Sarah Palin because she doesn't support any sex education in the schools other than teaching abstinence.

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

Most of Europe believes in condoms. They have very low rates of teen pregnancy and HIV because of it. The admonitions in the Torah were written in the late Bronze Age. The New Testament, on the other hand, has nothing to say about the sexual behavior of unmarried people and the Council of Jerusalem featured in the Book of Acts states that most of the Torah doesn't apply to non-Jewish Christians.

So, where's the problem? In the pregnancy, not in the sexual behavior.

And in answer to the second question, I've occasionally heard a quiet voice call my name. I've always worried what it might say next, because being advised to Go Forth would scare me shitless. I'm much to chicken (for a bear) to be a prophet or Messiah.

 

[WRJames]

Well, in the US that behavior is illegal in a lot of cases. Plus, in the US we really don't have social standards for teenage sexuality.

 

[redpaint]

The problem is when you make something forbbin, it makes it something that they want more. Kids are alot smarter today than people give them credit for being. they seem to grow up much faster than they did back in my day.

Just be strat with these kids today and you take that forbiden frut away from them. some are always going to try it no matter what you do or say. To many people are makeing a big deal out of this.

 

[joeys-game]

What a load of crappola..kids are going to do what they have always done, what we did when we were teens, what our parents did when they were teens!
EXPERIMENT.
.they don't give a rats ass what any of us think, neither did we!

 

[Weird Harold]

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

Making responsible choices from informed options and taking responsibility for the results of those choices.

It's also a much more realistic view of "acceptable behavior" to be expected of teens.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay -- we are all laughing at Sarah Palin because she doesn't support any sex education in the schools other than teaching abstinence.

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

Socially acceptable? Which part of society?

For fundies, "socially acceptable" means one thing. I'll let someone else define it, because it's so far removed from my reality, I can't describe it.

In my neck of the woods, it's acceptable for teens to hang out, boys and girls together. It's acceptable for them to ask an adult for a ride to Planned Parenthood. It's acceptable, (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the parents' backgrounds) for them to be sexually active. And you know what? These kids don't have nearly as much sex as you'd expect. They pick and choose. And, in a highschool of 800 kids, over the past six years-- I can remember hearing about two pregnancies.

So my answer is that what society considers "acceptable" is completely unacceptable in terms of real-life consequences.

 

[Varian P]

A policy of abstinence until marriage is a great idea for societies where kids wed as soon as they're physically mature enough to start making loads of babies.

In cultures where it's customary for marriage to be delayed until after a high school diploma and a scintilla of emotional maturity have been acquired, the expectation that teens won't do what their hormones are relentlessly urging them to do is delusional, and to turn away from the responsibility of providing teens with the information and resources to do as nature intended, without the consequences society has adapted to prevent, is irresponsible and cruel.

In high school--hell, even junior high school--no one I knew was abstaining. Sure, there were a few virgins, but only the everything-but variety. Christian, Jewish, white, Asian, black, middle class, poor, rich. We were all sneaking off to the lifeguard towers, the back seats of cars, our friends' parents' beds when they were off to their cocktail parties.

The notion that teaching teens about safe sex will make them want to fuck is silly. What could be less erotic than learning about herpes and unwanted pregnancy?

 

[shereads]

Okay -- we are all laughing at Sarah Palin because she doesn't support any sex education in the schools other than teaching abstinence

and yet her teenaged daughter is pregnant, which is ironic, and as such presents a sort of object lesson. Or not. Probably not.

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

Acceptable? By what criteria? If you are referring to the morality of a child's behavior, information (or the lack of information) can't affect that. Information doesn't push teenagers into having sex; hormones do that.

Years of statistics have proven that abstinence-only programs do not prevent teen sex; they just make it less likely that when children like Palin's 17-year-old have sex, it will be unprotected sex.

It's no laughing matter, of course. But if we couldn't laugh at the irony, those of us who get it would have to go postal.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

The U.S. government is extremely prudish. Hell, anything other than missionary position is illegal FOR THE MILITARY (how twisted is that?)...society in America is well past the thought processes of the government.

The US doesn't have a 'socially acceptable' ANYTHING, especially about sex....no one can decide what should/shouldn't be talked about or taught.

People tend to lose sight of what happens after taht teen mom turns 20. She's not a teen mom anymore. No one bothers to find out what happens to those moms, or their kids. The usual answer is that they live in low-income housing, on welfare, do drugs, and the kids become gang members. The truth is really quite different. I can speak from experience on this, I had a child at 18 years old. I went to college. I graduated. I served my country in the armed forces. My son went to private school. He's academically gifted. Plays sports. I'm married with 2 other kids now....Why'd I get pregnant? Wasn't on purpose! Why'd I have sex in the first place? Because I wanted to! I dealt with the consequences of my actions....and I can't say that I'd be the person I am today if I hadn't had my son so young.

 

[starrkers]

Why should it be the education system's job to teach sexual morality?

I always thought that's what families were for.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

Why should it be the education system's job to teach sexual morality?

I always thought that's what families were for.

That's another argument in the US......though I must say from my own experience, my mother didn't do much to educate me about sex. All she said was 'Save yourself for your husband'. Didn't explain what my period was (and she was a nurse!)....yea......so to a degree, I think school should explain some things to kids, atleast in the health aspect.

Personally, I've taught my son about puberty and all that from the medical standpoint. I used to be a nurse myself, and when I was a kid going through puberty, I was scared, not knowing what was happening. So I've tried to take that fear away from my son, and explain what's happening.

 

[emap]

I think alot of parents assume their kids will learn what they need to know from their friends. I learned alot about sex from my friends, learned alot more from doing it of course. parents for some reason seem to assume everybody is learning everythign they need to know about sex from their friends and the internet.

Course they forget that most families have one computer in the living room so looking up sex on the internet is kinda hard when you got your parents sitting not more than 20 feet away, not to mention the younger brother or sister.

I know personally I found it hard to look at one of those dirty magazines with my parents home and awake. Looking up sex with them that nearby wouldn't happen.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TP

And Hitler was sweet to dogs, but most teen moms end up on welfare, struggle, and the kids pay the price for her hormones.

 

[Just-Legal]

I think I was lucky in that respect - my mother taught me the basics and a lot about puberty, but also was approachable so if I ever had questions, she wouldn't be embarrased (or make ME feel embarrased) in answering them.

School? Meh. I used to doze off in sex ed because it was boring and mechanical. I think that's where it falls down - you don't engage the people you're teaching on a subject that really is life changing, you're gonna fail. However, as much as I would love people to have a mother like mine, some just don't care enough, or are embarassed to discuss it with their children, and would also scream blue bloody murder if the school tried to teach any more than the bare minimum, usually not on religious grounds either.

There was a point to this post, honest...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In the paper the other day was a story about a dad who's in jail for fixing Sonny up with a hooker. Sonny told momma, and momma freaked.

In this day and age you'll likely go to jail if you discuss sex with your kid.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

TP

And Hitler was sweet to dogs, but most teen moms end up on welfare, struggle, and the kids pay the price for her hormones.

Not quite sure where you are going with this.....but we are all responsible for what actions we take. I chose to go to school and get a job to avoid welfare. It's sad that so many do not choose to better their circumstances.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TP

I go with the statistics. There are horses who beat the odds and win big money; it happens. People do win the lottery. But stupid girls who get tagged with kiddies usually end up abandoned, poor, and easy pickings for sociopaths.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

TP

I go with the statistics. There are horses who beat the odds and win big money; it happens. People do win the lottery. But stupid girls who get tagged with kiddies usually end up abandoned, poor, and easy pickings for sociopaths.

I hope that I don't fall into the line of 'stupid' by that definition...

 

[rgraham666]

By Jimmy Bob's standards, you do.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

By Jimmy Bob's standards, you do.

Eh, such is life. Can't please everyone. I did something with my life, rather than lay about and let the taxpayers support me. It's all about the choices we make, honestly....

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROB

My standards worked well for me, and theyve worked well for clients who give them a try.

What have your standards done for you lately?

 

[TitianaPeaks]

All comments of stupidity aside, though......there's not a way to stop people from doing what they want, the US government just won't understand that, I don't think.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TP

You can stop problem behavior when you let people experience the consequences of their acts.

Dum animals will change their behavior right now when there are consequences. If you remove their freedom to act they become crazy. Government generally limits our freedom to act differently.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

TP

You can stop problem behavior when you let people experience the consequences of their acts.

Dumb animals will change their behavior right now when there are consequences. If you remove their freedom to act they become crazy. Government generally limits our freedom to act differently.

While I agree that the government limits our freedom to act differently, I don't think that sex is going to be able to fall completely under that yoke. People are going to have sex regardless. There was a law on the books in Georgia, since the 1920's if I remember right, that outlawed the bearing of illegitmate children. Is it enforced? Not really. The only reason I knew about it was because it was enforced on one teenage couple (17 years old, both of them, if I recall right), and made the papers. It wasn't enforced for me, either.

But I think the issue with teen pregnancy and such isn't so much that they have sex, but more that they end up on welfare, do I understand you correctly, James?