Beyond Abstinence

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TP

No. The problem is the kids get screwed by mom's immaturity and irresponsibility.

 

[jomar]

If I remember correctly, the research on things like sex education and drug awareness/prevention programs shows that kids don't necessarily do it less, but they do it smarter.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

They wouldnt do it at all if there were consequences.

 

[Guest]

If I remember correctly, the research on things like sex education and drug awareness/prevention programs shows that kids don't necessarily do it less, but they do it smarter.

Quite correct, jomar.

Teen pregnancy is a serious issue. But so is the transmission of various communicable diseases, including AIDS. If we don't teach these kids at least about condom use we're doing them a terrible (and maybe fatal) disservice.

 

[rengadeirishman]

technically here in maryland, oral and anal sex are illegal still. No one enforces it, but there it is.

 

[Guest]

technically here in maryland, oral and anal sex are illegal still. No one enforces it, but there it is.

Used to be in Kansas, too.

I thought they'd finally abolished the rest of those laws in the country, though.

Yeah - just checked. The Supreme Court in 2003 struck down all sodomy laws that hadn't already been abolished.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

TP

No. The problem is the kids get screwed by mom's immaturity and irresponsibility.

Well, I am grateful that my son hasn't been screwed.

But then again, plenty of kids get screwed, I see your point.

JOMAR

They wouldnt do it at all if there were consequences.

Well, the saying goes that kids are a sexually transmitted disease. Plenty of people only learn by doing, unfortunately. I don't think you'll get widespread governmental sactioned punishment for teenagers having sex.

 

[Liar]

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

Same as for everyone else. Resposible fucking.

At least if you ask me. Or people I consider sane.

 

[Liar]

Quite correct, jomar.

Teen pregnancy is a serious issue. But so is the transmission of various communicable diseases, including AIDS. If we don't teach these kids at least about condom use we're doing them a terrible (and maybe fatal) disservice.

When I was a teen, and didn't get laid, those teens around that did get laid never went bareback. Too frickin scared of random bugs. And there was a bit of a condom fad going on, so that it was considered cool to know your rubbers, have a favourite model, and all that. The "easy" girls had flavored ones in their backpacks and talked applying-techniques on the lunch breaks.

Teen pregnacies? Never saw one. Never heard of one. Pretty sure they were one in a million.

 

[Guest]

When I was a teen, and didn't get laid, those teens around that did get laid never went bareback. Too frickin scared of random bugs. And there was a bit of a condom fad going on, so that it was considered cool to know your rubbers, have a favourite model, and all that. The "easy" girls had flavored ones in their backpacks and talked applying-techniques on the lunch breaks.

Teen pregnacies? Never saw one. Never heard of one. Pretty sure they were one in a million.

That is so very healthy.

We have parents in the U.S. today who choose to remove their 14-year-old children from the sex ed talks in health class.

Don't want 'em to get any of those nasty sexual ideas!

Drives me crazy.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I've decided to not post the statistics on the prospects of children borne to unwed mothers because statistics are too commonly misunderstood and misused, and I don't want to make anyone feel bad. Which they wouldn't necessarily if they had a sophisticated understanding of statistics, but how many of us have that. (I only know the basics myself - not sophisticated - but am at least aware of the dangers.)

That said, on a societal basis there is no question that illegitimate birth is a monumentally destructive phenomenon, the worst impacts of which fall on those children. Statistically speaking. The implications for what our public policy goals should be are also clear - reduce illegitimacy. Much less clear is how to do that. It's probably not something that public policy - government action - can really influence, except in one respect: First do no harm. Over the past 60 years or so that hasn't happened.

On a societal basis, shotguns and shame appear to be useful things. I think this particular little drama may be a demonstration of the latter's efficacy. It's a good thing that the boy will "do the right thing" - it is the right thing, and we'd be a lot better off if more people had no confusion about that.

~~~~~

'No one would claim that two-parent families are free from conflict, violence, or abuse. However, the attempt to discredit the two-parent family can be understood as part of what Daniel Patrick Moynihan has described as a larger effort to accommodate higher levels of social deviance. "The amount of deviant behavior in American society has increased beyond the levels the community can 'afford to recognize,'" Moynihan argues. One response has been to normalize what was once considered deviant behavior, such as out-of-wedlock birth. An accompanying response has been to detect deviance in what once stood as a social norm, such as the married-couple family. Together these responses reduce the acknowledged levels of deviance by eroding earlier distinctions between the normal and the deviant.'
Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, 1993

 

[Stella_Omega]

Quite correct, jomar.

Teen pregnancy is a serious issue. But so is the transmission of various communicable diseases, including AIDS. If we don't teach these kids at least about condom use we're doing them a terrible (and maybe fatal) disservice.

Sarah Palin's daughter wasn't having safe sex-- she caught a baby.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

That is so very healthy.

We have parents in the U.S. today who choose to remove their 14-year-old children from the sex ed talks in health class.

Don't want 'em to get any of those nasty sexual ideas!

Drives me crazy.

I'd remove them, but only because I don't necessarily trust what the school "teaches" children today about topics outside of the basics, from the DARE program to sex ed to "zero tolerance..." Schools almost set up this antagonistic dichotomy between parents and kids, making schools themselves the supposed "safe place" to go. Personally, I think that undermines me as a parent, and drives a possible wedge me and my child. I've actually heard teachers say, "Your parents won't tell you this, but--" It's not an attitude I want fostered in my kids.

That said, I'm probably the most open parent I know about sex and sex ed - we talk about everything from condoms to masturbation to gay and lesbian relationships... everything.

 

[Guest]

I'd remove them, but only because I don't necessarily trust what the school "teaches" children today about topics outside of the basics, from the DARE program to sex ed to "zero tolerance..." Schools almost set up this antagonistic dichotomy between parents and kids, making schools themselves the supposed "safe place" to go. Personally, I think that undermines me as a parent, and drives a possible wedge me and my child. I've actually heard teachers say, "Your parents won't tell you this, but--" It's not an attitude I want fostered in my kids.

That said, I'm probably the most open parent I know about sex and sex ed - we talk about everything from condoms to masturbation to gay and lesbian relationships... everything.

We actually bring in representatives from the Y to talk with our students.

They're good.

My daughter has asked me all sorts of things, things I could never imagine asking my own mother!

 

[Liar]

On a societal basis, shotguns and shame appear to be useful things. I think this particular little drama may be a demonstration of the latter's efficacy. It's a good thing that the boy will "do the right thing" - it is the right thing, and we'd be a lot better off if more people had no confusion about that.

We'd also be a lot better off if more people had no confusion on that it's the next best thing. The rightest thing would have been to put a fuckin' rubber on in the first place.

I don't even count abstinence. It's like having a "no poopie" policy with a child instead of getting them potty trained.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I don't even count abstinence. It's like having a "no poopie" policy with a child instead of getting them potty trained.

*laugh*

That's the best analogy - EVER!

 

[Liar]

Personally, I think that undermines me as a parent, and drives a possible wedge me and my child. I've actually heard teachers say, "Your parents won't tell you this, but--" It's not an attitude I want fostered in my kids.

I think that depends more on your fostering then the school's. Raise 'em right (as it sounds like you do) and they'll simply reply "Uh, yes they will."

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I think that depends more on your fostering then the school's. Raise 'em right (as it sounds like you do) and they'll simply reply "Uh, yes they will."

To some degree. But 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, can go a long way toward brainwashing... er... influencing their thoughts and beliefs. Add peer pressure to the mix, and a parent becomes a tertiary influence.

 

[Corylea]

I don't even count abstinence. It's like having a "no poopie" policy with a child instead of getting them potty trained.

*laugh* I love it!

I think that teenagers are desperate to be taken seriously and desperate to become adults. I don't think it's just "hormones" that makes them want to have sex; I think it's also the knowledge that this is a privilege that our society reserves for adults. The same goes for drinking. A lot of cultures have rites of passage for teenagers, and I think our society desperately needs one. When the society doesn't create a rite of passage, teenagers make up one on their own, and it often looks like binge drinking or like sex that they aren't necessarily ready for.

I think kids need more education, not just about the mechanics of sex but about the emotions. If you have sex with somebody you like and feel a burst of tenderness towards them afterward, is that love, or is it just the feeling that sex brings? If you're attracted to two different people, and you don't believe in polyamory, how do you handle that? If someone's in love with you and you only like them, is it ethical to have sex with them? There's so much that experienced adults take for granted as they negotiate the world of sex that teenagers mostly haven't been exposed to and need information about. I remember when I was a virgin, the thing I most wanted information on was what does the woman need to do to make it a good experience for both of them. I'd been given the most rudimentary of sex education, so I knew that penis + vagina = heterosexual intercourse, but knowing where the parts went wasn't my biggest concern. I didn't just want to have sex, I wanted to be good at it, and nobody would tell me how.

God, you couldn't pay me to be a teenager again!

 

[CharleyH]

Okay -- we are all laughing at Sarah Palin because she doesn't support any sex education in the schools other than teaching abstinence.

But -- what, other than abstinence, is socially acceptable behavior for teens?

I am not laughing at Palin. I have no idea who she is other than an obvious patsy.

As for the chosen one? If I were Jesus in a chicks body? I'd smite you all, smite some more, and then I'd send you to hell for posting.

 

[Varian P]

TP

No. The problem is the kids get screwed by mom's immaturity and irresponsibility.

Or, rather, Mom and Dad's immaturity and irresponsibility. Or are human's procreating via simple cell division, these days?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I am not laughing at Palin. I have no idea who she is other than an obvious patsy.

As for the chosen one? If I were Jesus in a chicks body? I'd smite you all, smite some more, and then I'd send you to hell for posting.

and all the prOn! don't forget that!

 

[CharleyH]

and all the prOn! don't forget that!

I approve of this message.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

VP

Unless she's raped, mom's in control of her legs.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Smells like monkey poo in here.