Prostitution legal or illegal?

[KLCK]

Should prostitution remain mostly illegal or should it be legalized?

If it is legalized to what extent and under what sort of system?

I personally think that it should be legalized but under certain limits. For starters it should be limited to certain area's of a city/town and that women who ply the trade on streets should still remain outlawed. It should be limited to districts and brothels. There should also probably be a standardized "black list" of women who carry un-treatable sexual diseases. The objective is to eliminate abusive pimps by either directly brining the women into a safe environment or by simply out competing street women.

Either way there will always be women who sell there flesh for money and I think a system should be made that makes it safe.

In my city (Vegas) there was at one time a serious idea to allow for a red light district to be built. There are brothels in other counties but I think it would have been interesting to see if my theories about making it safer would have come true had they gone ahead with the plan.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Idea's?

 

[R. Richard]

In Italy, a Catholic country, prostitution had been illegal for some time. Nonetheless, there were brothels openly operating in at least all of the major cities and such operation was tacitly accepted by the scumbags.

A woman was elected to the Italian parliament and, as a part of her election platform, she introduced legislation to make the brothels illegal [they already were illegal] and to shut them down. The legislation was enacted into law and the brothels were shut down.

The whores who had been working in the brothels then came to plead with the woman. They had been forced out of their safe, clean brothels and forced to work the dangerous streets. The women wanted their brothels back.

The woman tried to introduce legislation to make the brothels legal and to allow them to open again. The, mostly male, parliament voted overwhelmingly to keep the brothels shut down. After all, they were God fearing men who wanted to protect women [and maintain their voter base.]

 

[voluptuary_manque]

In Italy, a Catholic country, prostitution had been illegal for some time. Nonetheless, there were brothels openly operating in at least all of the major cities and such operation was tacitly accepted by the scumbags.

A woman was elected to the Italian parliament and, as a part of her election platform, she introduced legislation to make the brothels illegal [they already were illegal] and to shut them down. The legislation was enacted into law and the brothels were shut down.

The whores who had been working in the brothels then came to plead with the woman. They had been forced out of their safe, clean brothels and forced to work the dangerous streets. The women wanted their brothels back.

The woman tried to introduce legislation to make the brothels legal and to allow them to open again. The, mostly male, parliament voted overwhelmingly to keep the brothels shut down. After all, they were God fearing men who wanted to protect women [and maintain their voter base.]

Which is why you should use Denmark or Holland as your model. It works there.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

It should be made legal with the only regulations being common-sense public health measures and the enforcement of "nuisance laws" that respect neighbor's rights to not have some flagrant, flaunting establishment in their community (as opposed to quiet, unobtrusive ones if that's what the character of the community requires).

The main reason for legalization, other than the fact that it's none of the government's damn business how a free individual choose to earn money or recreate, is to reduce the immense potential for exploitation of women that is implicit in criminalization. Exploitation by both the legal/law enforcement establishment, and by other members of the "industry" - ie. pimps.

 

[vividimaginings]

Which is why you should use Denmark or Holland as your model. It works there.

Its legal in most of Australia, including where I live. Prostitutes are registered and have to be tested for STDS regulary as far as I understand, although it is a legal requirement that protection is used

 

[voluptuary_manque]

It should be made legal with the only regulations being common-sense public health measures and the enforcement of "nuisance laws" that respect neighbor's rights to not have some flagrant, flaunting establishment in their community (as opposed to quiet, unobtrusive ones if that's what the character of the community requires).

The main reason for legalization, other than the fact that it's none of the government's damn business how a free individual choose to earn money or recreate, is to reduce the immense potential for exploitation of women that is implicit in criminalization. Exploitation by both the legal/law enforcement establishment, and by other members of the "industry" - ie. pimps.

Exactly. Properly ordered prostitution contributes to social order by eliminating abuse, exploitation and the undesireable side issues that organized crime brings with it.

 

[Varian P]

Prostitution should be legal.

Whether you think it should be or not, it will never be eradicated, and making it illegal leaves sex workers vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, and effectively encourages behavior that is against the public interest.

One thing that's been pissing me off to no end, lately, is Seattle's efforts to infiltrate and bust women who run their sex business online. These online businesses have made it possible for women to work without walking the streets, and has given them a lot more control over their lives--like liberating them from the need for a pimp. It's safer and more lucrative for the women (since they don't have to turn over every dollar they make to some extorting Mac Daddy). The mayor and other asses who came up with the bright idea for this sting op need to fuck off.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I'm in favor of legalized prostitution. I've had the pleasure of enjoying the company of prostitutes in Montreal (where it is legal). They have monthly health tests to ensure their healthiness and most work through agencies who screen out the riff-raff.

 

[impressive]

Prostitution should be legal.

Whether you think it should be or not, it will never be eradicated, and making it illegal leaves sex workers vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, and effectively encourages behavior that is against the public interest.

Agree.

 

[vividimaginings]

I'm in favor of legalized prostitution. I've had the pleasure of enjoying the company of prostitutes in Montreal (where it is legal). They have monthly health tests to ensure their healthiness and most work through agencies who screen out the riff-raff.

I am the same. After breaking up with my GF I went about 6 months without sex. After that time I decided to go to a brothel.I was very nervous about it but loved it because it was a safe, legal environment. I ended up going regulary for about 5 months and really liked it. The girls were great. Really nice people and good at their profession.

 

[Varian P]

BTW, here's an article that gives a nice little peek at how the law usually seems to work: persecuting women (in this case a fifteen-year-old girl), and ignoring the men paying her for sex, or pimping her out.

 

[Pure]

varian,
the deeper question is why your rational arguements--and i approve of them-- do not prevail in the US and a few other countries, mainly arab.

something to do with the peculiar american brands of xianity and hypocrisy?

interesting survey and commentary on the almost unique US situation at

http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/whatcountrieslegal.html

it points out the "concerned women for america" are ardent advocates of the present 'illegal' situation.

according to this site, the following countries besides the US have laws against prostitution, and enforce them

http://www.politicalbase.com/issues/legalization-of-prostitution/94/

egypt, {kenya, ruanda, south africa and uganda} {tolerated?}

sweden has recriminalized the purchase of sex.

iran, all arab countries, (not turkey)

cuba.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Oh, didn't you know that all prostitution exploits women? And that all heterosexual sex is prostitution of a sort? Just ask the ghost of Andrea Dworkin or her partner in ideology, Katherin McKennon.

 

[Jeanx2storm]

Prostitution should be legal.

Whether you think it should be or not, it will never be eradicated, and making it illegal leaves sex workers vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, and effectively encourages behavior that is against the public interest.

I'm all for it!

However, where I live, in the deep south, I don't forsee it anytime soon.

 

[Varian P]

Oh, didn't you know that all prostitution exploits women? And that all heterosexual sex is prostitution of a sort? Just ask the ghost of Andrea Dworkin or her partner in ideology, Katherin McKennon.

Oh, if only all hetero sex was a walk in the park, like prostitution. The harsh reality is, sex is RAPE. Violent, humiliating, scarring RAPE.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Oh, if only all hetero sex was a walk in the park, like prostitution. The harsh reality is, sex is RAPE. Violent, humiliating, scarring RAPE.

It must be, they said so. And taught a generation of college freshmen/women that it was so . . . with doubtful success, I suspect.

 

[Varian P]

varian,
the deeper question is why your rational arguements--and i approve of them-- do not prevail in the US and a few other countries such as (possibly?) El Salavador.

something to do with the peculiar american brands of xianity and hypocrisy?

interesting survey and commentary on the almost unique US situation at

http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/whatcountrieslegal.html

it points out the "concerned women for america" are ardent advocates of the present 'illegal' situation.

This is just one of the many, many facets of the American psyche I hardly dare attempt to contemplate (right up there with the compatibility of the separation of church and state, and the tradition of a prayer before opening sessions of congress...).

I figure it's some rainbow-sherbert-like melange of a misogynistic scapegoating whores for undermining the Puritan ethic of celibacy/monogamy, the sheer practicality of targeting the prostitutes who are visible and accessible to a greater degree than their johns and pimps, and--my favorite fringe theory, the enemy function--the idea that labeling and targeting any group--domestic or foreign--which is a threat to the "American" way of life is a great way to get tax dollars into the military industrial complex/prison system, etc., where the friends of those in power are bound to make a few dollars, and those in power, themselves, can handily garner themselves a few paranoia votes in the upcoming elections.

 

[KLCK]

What I don't get is how porn suddenly is not considered prostitution. Hmmm...maybe a prostitute could advertise herself online as an amateur porn star, then come to your house with a camera and just "forget" to turn it on. Bam! Legal!

The sucky part about it though is how hard it is to argue for prostitution when the people against it can simply call you immoral without actually listening to facts. Sadly in this country it actually works to simply call someone immoral and put there hands over there ears while go "LALALALALA CANT HERE YOU" during there rebuttal.

In retrospect: I would love to design a red light district.

 

[Varian P]

What I don't get is how porn suddenly is not considered prostitution. Hmmm...maybe a prostitute could advertise herself online as an amateur porn star, then come to your house with a camera and just "forget" to turn it on. Bam! Legal!

The sucky part about it though is how hard it is to argue for prostitution when the people against it can simply call you immoral without actually listening to facts. Sadly in this country it actually works to simply call someone immoral and put there hands over there ears while go "LALALALALA CANT HERE YOU" during there rebuttal.

In retrospect: I would love to design a red light district.

Amusingly enough, though, if you're a producer of porn, and you have sex with the people you hire to act/have sex in your movie, you are then guilty of soliciting a prostitute. The lines are very fuzzy, indeed.

 

[Pure]

i think the US is on its way to become a church-state, in the same way several of the colonies like Mass started out. the US will be a kind of evangelical iran with ayatollahs like James Dobson.*

UN measures for birth control, fighting AIDS, protecting women, are opposed by the US government (parroting the religious right) in coalition with the Islamic fundamentalists!

*the key to implementing this is some kind of toleration measures applicable to conservative catholics and orthodox jews.

 

[3113]

Well, it makes no earthly sense that a woman can be given expensive gifts from a man (jewelry, cars, an apartment) in appreciation for her company (whatever that entails) and not be jailed for it, but if she takes cash suddenly she's done something illegal.

At this point, keeping prostitution is absurd and bad for everyone. What a horrific waste of our tax dollars on everything from jailing these women, to paying cops to arrest them, to paying health care workers to treat them, etc. After all, if you license sex workers, you not only cut back on the spread of disease because you can mandate safe sex and health inspections, you not only cut back on pimps and crime, but you can also tax these sex workers.

Win, win, win for everyone, I'd say. The prostitutes, their customers and everyone else who benefits from the fact that prostitutes are off the streets, healthy and paying taxes.

Edited to add: but really, on this forum, you're preaching to the choir. I'm doubtful that you're going to find more than one or two people here who think it should remain illegal.

 

[Varian P]

Well, it makes no earthly sense that a woman can be given expensive gifts from a man (jewelry, cars, an apartment) in appreciation for her company (whatever that entails) and not be jailed for it, but if she takes cash suddenly she's done something illegal.

It's a slippery, slippery slope from respectable date/girlfriend/fiancee to homewrecker to criminal, you know.

At this point, keeping prostitution is absurd and bad for everyone. What a horrific waste of our tax dollars on everything from jailing these women, to paying cops to arrest them, to paying health care workers to treat them, etc. After all, if you license sex workers, you not only cut back on the spread of disease because you can mandate safe sex and health inspections, you not only cut back on pimps and crime, but you can also tax these sex workers.

Win, win, win for everyone, I'd say. The prostitutes, their customers and everyone else who benefits from the fact that prostitutes are off the streets, healthy and paying taxes.

Edited to add: but really, on this forum, you're preaching to the choir. I'm doubtful that you're going to find more than one or two people here who think it should remain illegal.

Thinking of the resources that could be garnered/allocated to actual worthwhile endeavors like healthcare and education, if we spent less money on police and prisons for "crimes" of morality, I'd get incredibly angry if I hadn't carefully lulled myself into a sense of utter jaded indifference.

 

[KLCK]

i think the US is on its way to become a church-state, in the same way several of the colonies like Mass started out. the US will be a kind of evangelical iran with ayatollahs like James Dobson.*

UN measures for birth control, fighting AIDS, protecting women, are opposed by the US government (parroting the religious right) in coalition with the Islamic fundamentalists!

*the key to implementing this is some kind of toleration measures applicable to conservative catholics and orthodox jews.

I don't think its going that way. I think we are gradually getting more "soccer mom"ish. Too much "will somebody think of the children!" type thought. I think that people are steadily getting less tolerant of the supposedly moral soccer mom's as seen by such things as video games. Originally video games were a easy to blame for a lot of problems, but now its becoming steadily harder to just say video games are a problem.

I am picturing a sort of a retreat and advance sort of system. During the 1920's and part of the 30's liberal thought was sort of "the norm" with speak easy's and Jazz becoming popular and people living en mass outside the law. Not to mention the introduction of Evolution into schools and a big kick in the balls to conservative religion that brainwashed children. It finally reached a head in the early 30's when prohibition was finally defeated and people kinda gave a giant finger to the Termparance movement. Then the late 30's, 40's and most of the 50's saw a return to conservative thought with war both worldwide and cold almost requiring a return to rank and file thinking. Then the 60's, 70's and part of the 80's saw hippies and some of the most liberal acceptance ever. Now the late 80's, 90's and part of the 2000's have seen a resurgence of conservative thought with the horribly retarded idea's of Creationism and the appearance of soccer moms.

I am hoping for another wave of liberal though to come along soon. I think its already starting with wide-spread acceptance of the green movement. I just hope that if Obama is elected he wont focus too much on pleasing the religious crowd. I think being liberal also has a stigma to it which in my perception is being erased slowly.

 

[cantdog]

The first obstacle would be to get the government to even speak about it in real terms.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Personally I don't care what woman does to earn a living. If she wants to lie around in bed all day servicing whoever, that's her business.

The problem is the people around her, there will be those who turn their nose up at her, then those who want to talk to her about what she does. Curiosity may bring others into the fold.

Of course the government will not allow that, even though they will reap the reward in the form of a wider tax base.

So, a woman who does the same thing for free is called a slut, if she gets paid for it, in cash, she's a whore and if she get cars, jewelery and other item she's smart.

Is say let them doe what they want as long as it's between consenting adults and harms no one.