Boy Scouts vs. Girl Scouts

[Guest]

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[Boxlicker101]

I've been reading about the tragedy of the Iowa scouts who were killed by the recent tornado. I came across something strange.

From this article:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-Hk64VfNSJrSQCoWl_3YP7gziegD919FJ800


Forecasters say about 25-30 tornadoes touch down in western Iowa each year, and Monona County — where the camp is located — gets hit roughly every two years.

<snip>

Lloyd Roitstein, Scout Executive with the Mid-America Council of the Boy Scouts of America, said the two most frequently used camps among the six the council owns have storm shelters. He said the council will discuss adding shelters, but he's not sure it makes sense.

<snip>

Crystal Meier, spokeswoman for the Girl Scouts of Greater Iowa, said all five Girl Scout camps in Iowa have basements or reinforced buildings designed as storm shelters.


Why the difference between boy and girl scouts? I mean, honestly?

Is it financial? Is it manly vs. feminine?

Why are there enough shelters for the girls but not the boys?

It's pretty much SOP for girls and women to be sheltered more than men or boys. There was once a reason for that - women are necessary for the survival of humanity, but that reason has been lost.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

It's pretty much SOP for girls and women to be sheltered more than men or boys. There was once a reason for that - women are necessary for the survival of humanity, but that reason has been lost.

Meaning we can now clone boys or that humanity no longer needs to survive or that there are so many of us now that a few here and a few there won't be missed?

 

[sr71plt]

Looking for stereotypes in everything, are we? The Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are two totally separate organizations. They don't consult with each other to ensure parity or setting of common priorities down the line of every issue. Honestly, I think some people put their brains on overdrive.

 

[Guest]

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[sr71plt]

No, actually.

I think it's ridiculous that a well-funded organization does not protect their minor charges.

You seem not to have absorbed the point. These are two totally separate organizations. They aren't going to scope on the same possible threats and priority fixes on the same schedule, nor, because they are both complex, broadbased organizations with disparate leadership/personal agendas, are they going to agree on what comes next. There's no earthly reason why Boy Scout and Girl Scout facilities will be developed with parity on amenities--and that they don't develop with parity certainly isn't, as boxlicker has suggested, because of some societal perception of the difference of the importance of boys and girls. Get a grip.

 

[fifty5]

I really don't know, I'm just guessing...

Maybe the Girl Scouts expect to be near base, while the Boy Scouts expect to be too far away from base for tornado-proof shelters to be useful.

The whole Scouting movement is about self reliance and so on, but that can be interpreted in different ways. Nevertheless, while safety precautions are obviously wise, Scouting is about taking risks in a sensible way, not about safety above all (which can be read as cowardice).

This isn't a simple issue.

 

[Tyr51]

Different organizations. They own different camps. It's not a judgement on what girls vs. boys need. The camp, where the tornado touched down, simply was not as an advanced a facility.

I think the amazing point here is to realize that the young men who survived this disaster truly did their organization proud. Despite their own wounds, they cared for eachother, triaged the wounded, performed basic first aid, and minimialized casualties.

As a former girlscout, I am sure girls would have done the same in that situation.

The facility, sadly, just did not have a reinforced basement.

Frankly, I have not been to many scouting camps that do.

Truly, though.... It is so sad that four were lost. It is an amazing testiment that more were not.

 

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[Weird Harold]

<snip>

Lloyd Roitstein, Scout Executive with the Mid-America Council of the Boy Scouts of America, said the two most frequently used camps among the six the council owns have storm shelters. He said the council will discuss adding shelters, but he's not sure it makes sense.

<snip>

I'm not sure why he'd say it doesn't make sense, but I can see situations where it wouldn't make sense to build storm shelters -- like a base camp for overnight hikes and trail-camping. If the kids aren't at the camp except for half a day at each end of the camp session because they're out on the trails the rest of the time, it wouldn't make economic sense to build shelters nobody is around very often.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Meaning we can now clone boys or that humanity no longer needs to survive or that there are so many of us now that a few here and a few there won't be missed?

Meaning that any one female can produce only about 25 or so offspring in a lifetime, while a man can produce thousands, given the inclination and the opportunity.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Meaning that any one female can produce only about 25 or so offspring in a lifetime, while a man can produce thousands, given the inclination and the opportunity.

Ah! Now we're back to the polyamory concept being discussed over on "Enough Dichotomy, Already #2".

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I'm not sure why he'd say it doesn't make sense, but I can see situations where it wouldn't make sense to build storm shelters -- like a base camp for overnight hikes and trail-camping. If the kids aren't at the camp except for half a day at each end of the camp session because they're out on the trails the rest of the time, it wouldn't make economic sense to build shelters nobody is around very often.

Excellent point, Harold. We really don't know the situation at that Boy Scout camp. Was it a long-term residential camp like the one's I went to or was it a "trail's end" jumping off point for deeper expeditions.

In California we used to drill every week against out worst nightmare, wildfire. But if we were 'way back in the Wilderness Area, our only hope would have been to try and get to an open meadow with fairly fireproof vegetation. If we'd been climbing a chapparal hillside when a wildfire started upslope it's unlikely anyone would have escaped.

 

[TE999]

Bottom line: Men are tough! Men are strong! Men are fearless! We don't need some little girly shelters. Let the wind blow. Arrh...Arrrh...Arrrrhhh!

Let's spend the money on pocket knives, compasses and merit badges.

 

[Weird Harold]

Excellent point, Harold. We really don't know the situation at that Boy Scout camp. Was it a long-term residential camp like the one's I went to or was it a "trail's end" jumping off point for deeper expeditions.

I don't know exactly what kind of camp it was, but in the background of one of the Weather Channel's "live from the scene" reports was a badly squashed two man dome tent -- not much like the wreckage of a dorm/barracks and mess-hall arrangement like the church camp I went to as child. Just from that, I'd guess "campground improvements" were limited to outhouses and a potable water supply.

 

[Tyr51]

This was simply a camp that didn't have a basement.

I am a native californian. Our camps (girl scout camps) had nothing more than outhouses and a clean water supply if we were lucky. And as said above, yes... we drilled for earthquake and for wild fire. And I remember once having to be evacuted in the middle of a camperee due to a major wild fire (I grew up in the Sierra Nevada). The good thing about wildfire (if good can be said), half of the time, you have a chance to get out.

I also, oddly enough, lived in Iowa recently. If any of you remember the Cat 3 tornado that went through Iowa City 2 or so years ago, I was in the middle of that.

Oh. My. God.

I've been through fire, earthquake, hurricane...... All my warning was an uneasy feeling and an odd colored sky. I remember asking for directions...
"Oh, there hasn't been a tornado here in 100 years. Don't worry."

1 hour later, I had 300 theatre patrons down in our costume basement, and when we emerged, a good 1/5th of the town was destroyed... all around us. We were exceptionally lucky.

There are some campgrounds with these facilities. There are many without. Storms in the midwest have gotten very active in the last few years.... there was a long time without. People got complacent as people do.

Nothing to do with gender in the least.

 

[scheherazade_79]

It could be that the girl scouts groups are run by women and the boy scouts groups by men. Women tend to be a lot more organised when it comes to stuff like that. Men are by nature bigger risk-takers.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

As as Scout the camps I went to here in the Chicago Area and in Michigan and Wisconsin were not all that developed. We stayed in tents, there were no cabins except at one.

Most were set up where we stayed there the first night then it was off on the trail or down the river by canoe. We would then stop at another site where there were tents set up with clean drinking water and outhouses. Then it was on to the next site along the river the next day.

There were times we just camped out under the stars with half shelters and mosquito nets. Not a lot of protection from the elements. But we weren't out there to be protected, we were there to learn and have fun.

Of course that was a long time ago too.

 

[starrkers]

It's just that girls are better at selling cookies.

 

[oggbashan]

In my experience as a Scout, a Scout organisation-owned campsite was a base to return to at night or after several nights. Overnighting away from the permanent campsite was common.

What is the point of a shelter if it's where the Scouts aren't?

Girl Guide camps tended to have activities ON the site and the Guides returned to the site every night. Overnighting away from the permanent site was rare.

I don't think this has changed much in the UK because Scouts and Guides are now younger than they were in my day. Scouts went to 16. Now it's to 14.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oh! SARAH simply wants one organization for everyone: THE LITTLE PUSSIES.

 

[Liar]

Some said it but i'll say it again:

Maybe the simplest explanation is the most likely. That the people in two seprate organisations made two different and separate judgement calls. It happens. Everything in the world is not founded on gender.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You mean sex. People have sex, Liar, not gender. Mental constructs have gender.

 

[impressive]

Some said it but i'll say it again:

Maybe the simplest explanation is the most likely. That the people in two seprate organisations made two different and separate judgement calls. It happens. Everything in the world is not founded on gender.

Most likely. Zade has a point, too, though.