Boy Scouts vs. Girl Scouts

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[jomar]

Well, for me the issue is the fact they have camps in places they know are subject to tornadoes. They may camp away from the shelters, but why would they not have place to run to for protection in an emergency?

No doubt funding and allocation of resources are issues, but shouldn't the first priority be safety? Be prepared and all that? Unfortunately, it often takes a tragedy for organizations to take action.

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This whole issue is assinine.

No one but a pussy-boy wants to camp someplace that has bomb shelters and emergency rooms and tornado shelters and comfort stations close at hand. Girls like that sort of ersatz nature experience. A Real Boy want to piss on pine trees and rabbits, and wipe his ass with a sissy's neckerchief. Real Boys want to flirt with danger and express their wildness.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

That was my original thought when I saw those stats.

How could they NOT have shelter in the middle of tornado alley?

sometimes it sadly takes a tragedy to prod common sense in people.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

sometimes it sadly takes a tragedy to prod common sense in people.

Its not about commonsense, its a rite of passage for males.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Its not about commonsense, its a rite of passage for males.

Exactly, men do not use common sense.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Women have a hard time with it, but men know what boys need to become men.

Its like mom and grandma encouraging a kid to make friends with a bully; dad and grandpa want the kid to kick the bully in the nuts.

 

[jomar]

Its not about commonsense, its a rite of passage for males.

What's a rite of passage? Getting killed in a tornado? Just because you have a shelter doesn't mean you can't flirt with danger by pissing on a campfire and burning your dick.

But your shit stirring is somewhat amusing to me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

Human nature doesnt keep pace with fashion and technology. If youre gonna have a fucking shelter you might as well camp at Disney World or in the back yard. Boys know theyre getting screwed when the grownups start digging shelters.

Moms want to protect their boys from poodles, thats how they are.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Girls go to college to get more knowledge.
Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider.

 

[Noor]

This was simply a camp that didn't have a basement.

I am a native californian. Our camps (girl scout camps) had nothing more than outhouses and a clean water supply if we were lucky. And as said above, yes... we drilled for earthquake and for wild fire. And I remember once having to be evacuted in the middle of a camperee due to a major wild fire (I grew up in the Sierra Nevada). The good thing about wildfire (if good can be said), half of the time, you have a chance to get out.

I also, oddly enough, lived in Iowa recently. If any of you remember the Cat 3 tornado that went through Iowa City 2 or so years ago, I was in the middle of that.

Oh. My. God.

I've been through fire, earthquake, hurricane...... All my warning was an uneasy feeling and an odd colored sky. I remember asking for directions...
"Oh, there hasn't been a tornado here in 100 years. Don't worry."

1 hour later, I had 300 theatre patrons down in our costume basement, and when we emerged, a good 1/5th of the town was destroyed... all around us. We were exceptionally lucky.

There are some campgrounds with these facilities. There are many without. Storms in the midwest have gotten very active in the last few years.... there was a long time without. People got complacent as people do.

Nothing to do with gender in the least.

I was in Iowa City a couple weeks after the tornado. The hotel we stayed in had their front entrance and part of the lobby gone. Looking out the windows of our room you could see into lots of buildings without roofs, and ac units on top of other roofs that flew there during the storm. It still looked like a war zone.

I was at a Boy Scout jamboree once that was so packed and crowded, it would have just been total carnage if a tornado hit. It was very hot with lots of scouts and visitors suffering heat exhaustion.
This was before jamboree's had a permanent location. Hopefully at the new Jamboree location they are building tornado shelters underground.

 

[jomar]

JOMAR

Human nature doesnt keep pace with fashion and technology. If youre gonna have a fucking shelter you might as well camp at Disney World or in the back yard. Boys know theyre getting screwed when the grownups start digging shelters.

Moms want to protect their boys from poodles, thats how they are.

Nah. You don't have to go into a shelter just because of a strong wind or a thunderstorm. But I have no doubt the scout leaders, men, and those boys wish they had a tornado shelter available. So do the fathers of the dead.

 

[Noor]

JOMAR

Human nature doesnt keep pace with fashion and technology. If youre gonna have a fucking shelter you might as well camp at Disney World or in the back yard. Boys know theyre getting screwed when the grownups start digging shelters.

Moms want to protect their boys from poodles, thats how they are.

WDW is great at getting people into shelters quickly by the way. A few years ago, when they were about to be hit by straight line winds, it was amazing how quickly and efficiently they got guests under ground.

 

[Guest]

Meaning we can now clone boys or that humanity no longer needs to survive or that there are so many of us now that a few here and a few there won't be missed?

I read it more as, "one motivated man can go a long way..."

Maharat

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

You cant build shelters everywhere a kid might go. There are much better uses for the money, because the odds of getting run over in the parking lot of Wally World are infinitely greater than going to Oz in a tornado. I mean, use the money for an abortion clinic for sis, odds are she'll use it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

NOOR

Then I'm amazed because WDW has no room to protect people from a thunderstorm. You ought to see people try and squeeze into Cinderellas Castle when the rain falls.

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[Darkniciad]

The campground is 4 times the size of any girl scout camp I can find in Iowa (1800 acres). As an old Scout, I can tell you that whatever central facilities are on the property, most of the Scouts are as far away from them as they can possibly get. The whole point of camping is to get away from civilization. The more structures you put up on a property, the less likely a troop is to choose it for an outing.

That's why most campgrounds have outhouses/latrines instead of modern bathroom facilities. If it was reasonable to use untreated ground water, there would be pumps out there instead of spigots as well. Shower houses are minimum capacity, because most choose a dip in the lake instead.

A central storm shelter wouldn't accomplish much, because everyone would be too far away to reach it in any reasonable amount of time. Start dotting the whole property with smaller storm shelters, and the troops will migrate back to private properties that aren't cluttered with civilization.

That's what the officials are talking about when they say that they're unsure whether building shelters is sensible. A shelter that nobody is anywhere near is pointless.

This is one situation where "If you build it, they will come" is completely ass-backwards. If you build it, they will flee as fast as their feet will carry them with all that gear strapped to their back.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Amen! Brothers & Sisters!

 

[jomar]

JOMAR

You cant build shelters everywhere a kid might go. There are much better uses for the money, because the odds of getting run over in the parking lot of Wally World are infinitely greater than going to Oz in a tornado. I mean, use the money for an abortion clinic for sis, odds are she'll use it.

That's true. That's why you build them at camps where the tornadoes are, not where they're not.

 

[Weird Harold]

NOOR

Then I'm amazed because WDW has no room to protect people from a thunderstorm. You ought to see people try and squeeze into Cinderellas Castle when the rain falls.

WDW is built fifteen feet above the natural grade level to make room for all of the service tunnels betneath everything. Rain isn't going to be fatal, but hurricane force winds might well be, so the service tunnels get used for their secondary purpose; emergency shelters.

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[Weird Harold]

That's true. That's why you build them at camps where the tornadoes are, not where they're not.

What's the maximum distance a camper should be abel to get from a shelter? How many shelters would you need to ensure that no camper could get further away from a shelter than you're arbitrary distance? How many shelters would it take to protect one camper everywhere within an 1800 acre property. How big should each shelter be to be sure that every camper that might be closest to any given shelter will be safe?

You can't build shelters every hundred yards that can each contain the entire camp population and if you did provide absolute shelter coverage, you'd likely have to dig up and/or run over all of the ecology that makes the place suitable for "wildernes" camping. You can't dig huge holes and line them with concrete, (or some other reinforcing material) without disturbing a lot more space than just the hole you're digging -- not even if you make the scouts dig the shelters by hand by tunneling into hillsides.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

However much people dislike the idea, leaving home carries risk. For some, any attempt to eliminate that risk is abhorrent. There is even a serious move to set aside certain Wilderness Areas as "no rescue" zones. Enter at your own risk 'cause ain't nobody comin' after you, sort of thing.

Harold has put it neatly.

Watch children playing. Girls will cluster together near the teacher or the playground supervisor. Boys will be 'way out there near the fences. If the fences weren't there, they'd be out of sight. This is not culturally based, it's how we're wired, to many a mother's distress . . . and sometimes grief.

The question is not what should have been done but what have we learned and what shall we do and neither question is easy.