Misery, Love, Relationships and Happiness Ever After...

[catalina_francisco]

Misery, Love, Relationships and Happiness Ever After...Do We Learn From Them or Do We Get What We Ask For?

Reading through the forum of late (and elsewhere), today included, I see lots of posts about unhappy relationships, fear of love and being loved, and a message that the wise, and in particular those honest about it, know that blissful love does not last for long before it becomes 'more realistic' and difficulties arise one way or another. Is this really how it is? Is it possible that some experiences, miserable though they may have been were the product of the choices that person made more so than the fault of love being an impossible thing to attain and maintain?

Is wisdom believing love is only euphoric for a short period of time, or is it believing that anything is possible with the right person, self discipline and self knowledge? Basically, do we learn from our experiences and move forward without carting that baggage into subsequent relationships, or do we continue the choices we have made, turn a blind eye and get what we have asked for by so doing? How do we stop baggage from infecting our relationships in the future? Can D/s and any related forms discussed on this board thrive on in these conditions, both positive and negative? What makes it all possible for you, and what are your expectations once in a long term kink related relationship?

Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

Misery, Love, Relationships and Happiness Ever After...Do We Learn From Them or Do We Get What We Ask For?

Reading through the forum of late (and elsewhere), today included, I see lots of posts about unhappy relationships, fear of love and being loved, and a message that the wise, and in particular those honest about it, know that blissful love does not last for long before it becomes 'more realistic' and difficulties arise one way or another. Is this really how it is? Is it possible that some experiences, miserable though they may have been were the product of the choices that person made more so than the fault of love being an impossible thing to attain and maintain?

Is wisdom believing love is only euphoric for a short period of time, or is it believing that anything is possible with the right person, self discipline and self knowledge? Basically, do we learn from our experiences and move forward without carting that baggage into subsequent relationships, or do we continue the choices we have made, turn a blind eye and get what we have asked for by so doing? How do we stop baggage from infecting our relationships in the future? Can D/s and any related forms discussed on this board thrive on in these conditions, both positive and negative? What makes it all possible for you, and what are your expectations once in a long term kink related relationship?

Catalina

Catalina, excellent post and I'm so glad you raised these questions. However, I just want to clarify what you're saying in the first paragraph, because I'm a little confused. Actually, in rereading - it's just this:

a message that the wise, and in particular those honest about it, know that blissful love does not last for long before it becomes 'more realistic' and difficulties arise one way or another. Is this really how it is?

Euphoric love does not last forever, and difficulties do arise, but being realistic does not mean you embrace a loveless more friendly roommates relationship. I think you are saying how do we learn to take responsibility for our choices, rather than saying, ah well, that's love - the highs, the lows, an addiction to be overcome, madness-inducing (it was the love that made me do it!)? Is that right?

I guess I just want to be clear that it's not necessarily incongruous to acknowledge the euphoria and take responsibility for our choices. It's also not incongruous to understand the reasons behind bad choices and take responsibility for those choices at the same time.

 

[SirQittus]

There's a natural bliss at the beginning. It's just the way it is. There's a reason Christmas mornings and honeymoons are so iconic for happiness.

That the bliss may fade does not detract from the fundamental happiness of sharing a loving relationship with another. That doesn't have to fade, and can readily endure for decades.

That my sub and I may be "beyond the bliss" doesn't change the fact I'm acutely aware that every day of my life is far better than it would be without her, and I trust she feels the same. Where's that fall on the wisdom scale?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina, excellent post and I'm so glad you raised these questions.

Well they are questions which cross my mind in relation to others quite often. We can't be the only ones (actually I know we aren't as I have known a couple of relationships which were well into 30+ years whereby the bliss was still well and truly bubbling) who have both a deep relationship which I think some feel is an 'after the euphoria' stage, as well as still being in a state of bliss more often than not.There are always waves which carry the momentum up and down, but does that necessarily have to destroy the euphoric 'in love' bliss or is it a choice we make because we have been programmed to believe that is inevitable?

Euphoric love does not last forever, and difficulties do arise, but being realistic does not mean you embrace a loveless more friendly roommates relationship.

Thus my point above...why does the it necessarily have to end? Is it choice or is it like hitting a brick wall you really didn't expect...can it be avoided by recognising there are no perfect people or relationships? I remember the first time we ever mentioned working through something together the response was 'oh, the honeymoon is over then'...we actually didn't see it that way at all.

I think you are saying how do we learn to take responsibility for our choices, rather than saying, ah well, that's love - the highs, the lows, an addiction to be overcome, madness-inducing (it was the love that made me do it!)? Is that right?

In part. It seems often someone who doesn't agonises through a succession of relationships and still does not have any that satisfy them/their needs, are often heralded as being wise. I figure wisdom would be more so being in a position to have traversed it, learned from past experiences and worked toward better outcomes. Are we really hooked on tragedy and misery to the point we feel the sad and miserable are the ones who have learned the most? Do some seek the misery because it is familiar, or because in some twisted way it works for them on another level?

I guess I just want to be clear that it's not necessarily incongruous to acknowledge the euphoria and take responsibility for our choices. It's also not incongruous to understand the reasons behind bad choices and take responsibility for those choices at the same time.

That is my point? Why can't you have both? Why is it popular to believe you pass quickly through the 'in love' euphoric stage to mundane everyday life and that the 2 cannot exist together thus adding a reality and balance to both?

Catalina

 

[SweetGigi]

I, for one, know I have an extremely hard time with my personal insecurities floating into my relationships. I constantly demand affirmation and reassurance for my feelings and 'place'. I am slowly learning- through realization and a strong hand- these actions, whether they get me the positive feed back I desperately crave or not, are damaging and have consistently pushed the men I love and care for away. I have been conditioned to believe I need outside reinforcement for the things I should already know in the first place. All this is sorta new to me still, acknowledging it is the first step says the addict, and I want to move forward from this a more healthy and secure person. I do not 'blame love' for my shortcomings or failures. How can I place blame for my actions on an emotion? I know there are many different types of love in this world- even several different types of love within a single relationship- so to harden myself to the aspect or emotion of love because of my shortcomings is, to me, folly.

 

[intothewoods]

Well they are questions which cross my mind in relation to others quite often. We can't be the only ones (actually I know we aren't as I have known a couple of relationships which were well into 30+ years whereby the bliss was still well and truly bubbling) who have both a deep relationship which I think some feel is an 'after the euphoria' stage, as well as still being in a state of bliss more often than not.There are always waves which carry the momentum up and down, but does that necessarily have to destroy the euphoric 'in love' bliss or is it a choice we make because we have been programmed to believe that is inevitable?

I think the every day, every minute euphoria (true euphoria) of falling in love does not last forever. In a good relationship, that love deepens and becomes more real, in my opinion. I am separated, but spent many years very much in love. Hell, when my husband looked at me naked, after having given birth a couple of weeks prior, and said, you look beautiful, baby - and he meant it, truly meant it? That is love. I wasn't feeling euphoria. And neither was he. Just love for each other, in that moment.

Thus my point above...why does the it necessarily have to end? Is it choice or is it like hitting a brick wall you really didn't expect...can it be avoided by recognising there are no perfect people or relationships? I remember the first time we ever mentioned working through something together the response was 'oh, the honeymoon is over then'...we actually didn't see it that way at all.

I never felt, oh, the honeymoon is over. As I mentioned above, working through something is a way to deepen that love. I think it's just different than euphoria, and in many ways, better!

In part. It seems often someone who doesn't agonises through a succession of relationships and still does not have any that satisfy them/their needs, are often heralded as being wise.

I don't usually herald many people as wise. If I see someone who has learned from their mistakes, I think they're learning, and good for them.

I figure wisdom would be more so being in a position to have traversed it, learned from past experiences and worked toward better outcomes.

It's a process - recognize your mitakes. Good for you! Learn from those mistakes. Great! Stop repeating them. Fabulous! It's a progression.

Are we really hooked on tragedy and misery to the point we feel the sad and miserable are the ones who have learned the most? Do some seek the misery because it is familiar, or because in some twisted way it works for them on another level?

Eek, no. I hate being tragic. I love hanging around my happily remarried mom friend! It gives me so much hope.

That is my point? Why can't you have both? Why is it popular to believe you pass quickly through the 'in love' euphoric stage to mundane everyday life and that the 2 cannot exist together thus adding a reality and balance to both?

Catalina

I think I just take issue with the word euphoric, as it has this drug-like, impossible to maintain high kind of association with. I would say blissful contentment.

 

[JamieB]

Euphoria

That is my point? Why can't you have both? Why is it popular to believe you pass quickly through the 'in love' euphoric stage to mundane everyday life and that the 2 cannot exist together thus adding a reality and balance to both?

Catalina

I think it's generally agreed that the euphoric stage is not sustainable. I don't think anyone would honestly want it to go on forever...it gets exhausting after a while, in my opinion.

But I don't agree that once it fades it has to be gone forever. It can and will come back...sometimes it takes work but it can. I think there are certainly going to be times when you'll be less intimate (especially when there are kids in the picture), but IF you pick the right person (and ladies and gentlemen, that is a BIG IF), there will also be times when it's the honeymoon all over again.

To me that's the best of both worlds...your companion and lover and friend, with whom you fall in love over and over again as the years pass.

The problem is in picking the right person. I'm fond of saying the only way to find out what you want is to learn what you DON'T want a little at a time and hope you get lucky.

Luck to all of us on that count.

J

 

[FurryFury]

I have to say that I believe stopping and smelling the flowers is important. That is part of what keeps the bliss alive. You have to stop, think about why you love that other person and be grateful to have them in your life everyday. That, for me, helps to keep the magic alive.

Too often we get busy. Too often we only focus on what we are not happy with and take for granted the things that are going well in our lives. If we spent as much time focusing on what we are happy with, we and everyone around us would be happier.

 

[Netzach]

I don't feel like my life or my love has to be perpetually "oooo whee blissful!" to be great. If that makes any sense.

Anything worth doing has resonance, ups and down, sorrows and joys, really boring and mundane little snapshots that just are.

If you net more positive experiences than negative then you're doing the right thing. But it's the whole that's beautiful. I'm not in love with my suffering, but I'm not so incredibly *scared* of suffering that I have to banish the very thought. That does seem rather empty to me, as empty as a relationship in which there's nothing BUT suffering.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not sure if this actually relates to the question or not, but it's something I've been thinking about.

I'm not a religious person. Spiritual, maybe, but not religious in the sense that my Southern Baptist family is. But I absolutely do believe that everything happens for a reason. Yes, as the words come out of my mouth, I realize how trite they sound, and it always bugs me when people trot that little phrase out when I'm in pain and needing something more concrete to cling to. But I also know that looking back on pretty much everything that's happened to me, I see object lessons there, and I see that if I had somehow skipped one of those and moved on to the next one, that I couldn't have learned what I did without the previous experiences behind me.

I have to believe that we're all on a path of some sort, and we're all going somewhere. Some of us are quick studies and will hurry down our paths to wherever we're going quite quickly. Then some of us, like me, will take forever to learn anything and think that banging our heads against a brick wall is somehow doing something other than giving us a headache. I think in order for a relationship to work and have any sort of long-term stability, both people need to be in similar places on their paths. Age, of course, has nothing to do with it. It's more of a matter of the things we learn and the rate at which we learn them. So an exceptional 20-year-old can be in the same place as a 50-year-old who's gone through the school of hard knocks.

Now, this is all just my opinion, and I understand that a lot of people think it's crap. But it's comforting to me to think that it's true and to think that, "Well, maybe neither of us are bad people, but maybe we weren't together at a time in our lives where we were ready for each other," or whatever.

I bring that up to say this. I don't think any love is going to be blissful all the time. I also don't think that it has to be boring and dull, either. I think you have to make time for the blissful moments. I think you have to work at sustaining the euphoria, and most people don't want to do that. Most people would rather just exist day in and day out in relative comfort. It's easier to just exist than it is to live. It's easy to forget about keeping the relationship alive in the midst of day-to-day concerns.

But I think when two people who are at similar places in their lives realize that you have to work at relationship and that you can't just sit on your ass and expect it to fall into place naturally, that's when you get magic, so to speak. It's not that there's anything special about the people or their connection, other than the fact that they're willing to make it work. Happiness is something people take for granted and think it's something that'll just fall into their laps while they're busy doing something else, but that's just not how it works.

Ummm, or maybe I'm just an idealist. I don't know.

 

[RJMasters]

The below is a copy and paste, but it does a fine job in explaining my views on love over all. In my opinion a relationships needs to have all three of these firing in equal measure. That's not a law or rule, its just my ideal.



The Greeks said there were several kinds of love > phileo or brotherly love; eros or erotic love; and agape, or a deeper spiritual love. When we love we experience at least one of these types of love

There are a number of different Greek words for love, as the Greek language distinguishes how the word is used. Ancient Greek has three distinct words for love: eros, philia, and agape. However, as with other languages, it has been historically difficult to separate the meanings of these words. Nonetheless, the senses in which these words were generally used are given below.

Eros (Ερως érōs) is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word “erotas” means “(romantic) love”. Plato refined his own definition. Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. It should be noted Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, “without physical attraction”. Plato also said Eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth by eros. The most famous ancient work on the subject of eros is Plato’s Symposium, which is a discussion among the students of Socrates on the nature of eros.

Philia (φιλια philía), means friendship in modern Greek, a dispassionate virtuous love, was a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philia denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.

Agapē (Αγαπη agápē) means “love” in modern day Greek. The term s’agapo means “I love you” in Greek. The word “agapo” is the verb “I love”. In Ancient Greek it often refers to a general affection or concern, rather than the physical attraction suggested by “eros”; agape is used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one’s children, and the feelings for a spouse. The verb appears in the New Testament describing, amongst other things, the relationship between Jesus and the beloved disciple. In the end, “agape” is differentiated from “eros” below. In biblical literature, its meaning and usage is illustrated by self-sacrificing, giving love to all, both friend and enemy. The word “agape” is not always used in the New Testament in a positive sense.

Source: http://grhomeboy.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/greek-words-for-love/

Put me in the "believing that anything is possible with the right person, self discipline and self knowledge" camp.

 

[madetotakeit]

Euphoric? I tend to agree with some of the above statements that it does not have the best connotations . It definitely exists in the beginning, but euphoria is transitory. To me that needs to develop into something deeper. My parents have been married for 46 years. At times when my dad looks at my mom, I can see the 16 year old kids who fell in love. They have had their ups and downs, their battles and their scars. Because they invested more of themselves they have moved to a place beyond that euphoric "honeymoon" feeling. That is what I personally want. Love that lasts. The ability to overcome obstacles and not only survive but thrive.

I think everyone learns from their mistakes. Whether it is to make changes or to identify the patterns to repeat. It can be easy to seek out those things that make us miserable because there is safety in the familiarity. You know what is coming, you know how it is going to end. There is no unknown. That I think is where the difference lies. Not in some being able to break that cycle but in choosing to.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Misery, Love, Relationships and Happiness Ever After...Do We Learn From Them or Do We Get What We Ask For?

I obviously get what I ask for, I know I do.

Love, misery, happiness ever after...
I believe in this yes. I believe in love that lasts forever and yes I still believe in the happily ever after. I am not looking for it anymore tho. I did, it just didnt work. Sometimes it doesnt matter HOW BAD you need something or someone, you wont get it, and you just have to be okay with it.

I spoke with wife of my brother two days ago. Shes believer, we both are, well she told me "I am sure you two (me and my ex husband) really do belong together. When your bro told me you took him back again I wasn't even suprised. See you and him together feels just right. It's just like things should be, I am sure of it. You make a nice family, everything will be allright, you'll see!!" I would usualy agree with her as I used to think the same, for a loooooooong time, but now I dunno. I told her "And what if I dont want it anymore? I mean, I am tired. I am tired of giving us a new chance over and over again and see how it just DOESN'T HELP/WORK."

I love him. I shouldn't maybe, but guess I still do, someway somehow. Not as much as I used to, but still enough to stay and keep trying. Cuz of our kids, cuz of him (and my naive silly thought he needs me, OMG joke one me ) and cuz of myself as well.

I was thinking WHAT our prob is. Well actualy what MY prob is?? as it's always me bitching about things. And I must say I know very well what my prob is. I know very well what makes me feel hurt, unloved and rejected in our relationship. I am very emotional person, God knows why, but I am. I am also an love addict, if something like that exist. I need love and care of the person I am with, I cant help it. Need it in daily doses really. I am fuking okay, as long as I am getting it, as long as I feel loved. But once I am not, I am down, frustrated and depressed in no time. And yes it SUCK.

I dunno why I am like that and I am not happy nor prode about it either. My man ain't that bad. If he was I wouldnt bother with him. I keep trying to make it work cuz we have so many things in common. We can live together very well and we do usualy. It's the lil things that sadness and hurts me at times. Like when I wanna go out with him and he says "No you can't. I don't need you around me. I am not a lil child so you would have to go with me." It's not like I am going out with him kinda often. We wasnt together anywhere like for ages now. It's always just me and kids, or him and kids, but never together. Never like a real family, wich he proclaims we are.

I asked him few days ago if he REALLY thinks the way we live can be called as a some kind of a relationship. He said "Of course, why not? Whats your prob again? What have I done?!?" Well I told him "I dunno. It's just that you never want me around when you go out to see your work mates or your friends. Are you ashamed of me.......??" Well, he says he's not, but the way he react when I would actualy go with him says different, so... I dunno.

"Do you really love me...?" I ask, "Sure I do! I just don't need someone behind my ass all the time. I wanna have fun. I want my wife and 10 lovers. Dunno what you women don't get about it? "
"LOL, What a Bitch!!" I say and then we both laugh. And then I am usualy okay, for a while. Untill something happens that makes me wonder IF I am still loved. :/

It's not like I wanna go out with him THAT often. I am not much outgoing person, but I would still like to spend some time with him and our kids all together ya know. I have totaly no need to show off I am his partner, but when he goes out to see his friends and show them our baby, telling me I cannot go with them, it sadness me yes. Can't say it's pissing me off cuz its not, it just makes me very sad sometimes. Sad cuz he don't like me around that much as I like him around.

It's this little things what make our relationship crap at times cuz I don't handle it well when I see he prefer his friends over me. He's okay when he's home with me. We talk and joke about things, have sex, watch movies, laugh together, but go out together or something like that? No way. Just VERY rarely. Oh well, one cannot have everything I guess.


I am far from being perfect and I know my part on the probs and splits we went thro. I can be nice, but I can be proper bitch as well. Depends on the way he make me feel. When we are okay and I feel loved, I am being the good wife. But at times like this, when he makes me feel like the totaly worthless shit and the last meanful person on the world, I can be very not nice and he's ignored. It's what I do. When I feel hurt, I tend to hurt right back. I realise things cannot EVER work out this way, so anytime I get pissy or sad or frustrated over him not loving me the way I need to be loved, I turn into this bitch that ignore his presence, his wishes, anything about him really and I must say I feel I have all the right to feel like that cuz I am giving him my best, all of me really, so then when I want or need to get the same in return and I am not, guess I just simply wanna make him feel shit as well. I dunno be like this for too long tho + I really hate to be like that.

I am more into loving that into being a bitch, even when I think he deserves it at times. I might ignore him for a day or two and he knows very well WHY. I always tell him why I am rather at my PC than watch a movie with him. As much as I don't like the way things are between me and him sometimes, I still have to force myself to be this cold fuck who ignore him. Love him was always easier for me than hate him. I have million reasons WHY I should leave him and he might have million reasons why he should leave me. We both have our good sides and our bad sides. Theres things I dont like about him and there are things he dont like about me. Somehow we always end together tho. We have split many times, always being draw back together someohow.

I am no longer thinking if its the destiny, if we both just being unable to REALLY let each other go and move on, or if we just being lazy and a bit comfy about living together as it's easier for both of us to live together. I am still not sure what I am gonna do about us (me and my ex) yet. There are days when I feel like I am just wasting my time with him. Times when I think he will NEVER love me the way I need to be loved, but theres still the what "IF".

What IF he really loves me as he says and its just me not seeing it?
What IF he really want to have the family with us as we always planed and wanted?
What IF it is just the depressed me not seeing things clearly enough to see he really cares?
What IF I leave him and then find out it was the most stupid thing I have ever done?
What IF I cannot live without him?
What IF I won't find a new daddy for our kids, new man for myself. Do I really want our kids to grow up without a dad? Do I really want to end all alone? Would that be better that being with him???

Theres so many "IF's", so many questions for wich I don't have an answear just yet. Untill I will answear all those questions to myslef, I think I cannot move on. I know no one can help me with this. It's something I gotta sort in my damn head. Theres lots of things I have to think out before I make the final step and God knows I am thinking about it most of the time, but I still dunno. I don't understand myself sometimes. At times I am not sure if I am looking for a reason to stay or go, I really dunno. It's hard to explain.

If he leaves us again, then it's sorted and I would NEVER ever take him back again, but when he's staying, I cannot push away a man I always loved and wanted to grow old with. I am glad we are together and I am more than happy that he's the dad of both of my kids. I still have a hope we will be okay, somehow. I am willing to do alot for it and I will. As long as I see a lil hope for me and him, guess I will stay.

I was honest with him when I took him back. I was honest about me being happy we are back together. Now I have to be honest with myself about WHAT I want from life and from this relationship and what my plans for the future are. Is my ex still part of my future? Do I see him there or have I finaly give up? I dunno. Have to think about it. Two days ago I thought I KNOW. I thought hes not part of my future, but now I dunno, again. Hard to decide.

When I am mad and hurting I dont want him in my future at all, but I dunno be mad for too long. Now I feel like runing to him and give him a big kiss and tell him how much I love him. And I wouldnt lie, I do love him. I am bitching about things now and then, but I love him more than he will ever know.

Sooooooooo...... erm, I should just SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I don't blame anyone for what I am going thro, anyone except myself. I will work it out, one day, hopefuly.

 

[EmpressFi]

*hugs* to Kate

I wish I had the answer for you. You're right, you're the only one who can decide what's best for you and your family. Youve put up with more and taken him more times than I ever would. I am in awe of your strength to have not kicked him out long ago. I hope you find your happiness.

The "wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" euphoria of love. No, I dont have that every single minute of every day. I forget who it was now, but someone described it best as it having deepened and that's what it's done.

Malin and I have been together since '95 and there's not a day that goes by that we dont tell each other we love each other. Master and I tell each other several times a day that we love each other. But that doesnt mean that for us it's all hearts and flowers all the time. (Not saying I dont believe it can happen, it just doesnt happen for us all the time)

I believe in life long. It killed me to admit that I'd made a mistake with my first marriage. I'd married a nice guy, for the most part. We were friends. But I didnt love him, I wasnt IN love with him. And when I ended that marriage, the shame I felt, other than for not being brave enough to end it ~ and cheating on him instead was because I ended a marriage instead of toughing it out.

Then I met Malin. It was instant and it was hot and it was consuming. But funny thing, the more it consumed of me, the more I found i had to give. It was self-sustaining. It still is. We've been through the rough stuff... unemployment, bankruptcy, surgeries, bilaterally scarred fallopian tubes... other things that are too painful to post about. But what's important, is that in every situation where I would have had everyone I know saying just walk away, we stayed and we clung to each other.

That's what it's about. The flowery stuff is great. But, knowing he's there.. that THEY'RE there when the world goes to shit and I feel my worst..and knowing that they love me no matter what... that's what it's all about.

 

[FurryFury]

BiaTcHiNFiRe,

My heart cries for you and your kids in the situation you are in. You might wonder why? Because I was once with a guy that treated me like shit.

Honestly I don't care that much about myself in general. Being pregnant was one of the best things I ever did because I made far better decisions about what and who to have in my life when I looked at it from the point of view, what is in the best interests of this child.

Having a person in the in the house, who either ignored her or treated her like shit wasn't. Having a miserable mom wasn't.

My life has only gotten better since I began looking at it that way. It's just a shame I couldn't do what was best for me alone.

I wish you better days in the future.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I broke my rose colored glasses a long, long time ago.

Best thing I ever did for myself... and all the men I've known, too.

 

[Bandit58]

Sir and I have been together for a little over 4 years now. Yes we have been through that euphoric phase But as time has passed we have found that our love has deepened.

You see, when you are faced with the distinct possibility that your Other may well pass away before you do, you tend to want to make the most of that time you are granted together.

He and I share an amazing emotional closeness. When He holds me, I feel so safe and cherished. I can't bear the thought of one day losing Him.

We have commented to each other that things just keep getting stronger and better.....

 

[nh23]

I think that in a lot of relationships that euphoria is sort of an obsession..an addiction if I may. If the relationship gets past that point. To where you love with a clear mind, seeing every fault and still loving that person is when love goes from this obsessive state to reality.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Thank you for the hugs EmpressFi and FurryFury.

As much as I apprecaite the hugs and kind words I must say I didn't mean to make another "sobing post" and make you feel sorry for me. You shouldn't, really. Firstly cuz it was me and me alone who took him back again after all we went thro. I knew very well he treats me shit now and then and I knew how bad it hurts my feelings as well. And secondly cuz I would mostlikely do it again. At the moment I would. Geez I really am helpless when it comes to my ex husband.

I still see some kind of hope for me and him. God knows why, but I do and as long as its there, I cannot do much about it. Simply I cannot let go when I still think we can work it out. I no longer believe he would change nor I want him too, but I can. I can change or comply and I will. Been doing that for years now and guess I will keep doing that. As long as I think he's worth that effort, I will. And in my eyes he's worth it. I still consider myself lucky to call him my man and dad of our kids. He's not perfect IMO, but me either.

I am not a leaver and guess I am kind of a fixer. I know he wouldn't do much to make things better, for him its more "Or it works, or not. Deal with it and move on." For me it's more "Or it works, or not. Find what the prob is and fix it." Thats what I do, at least what I am trying to do.

I dont really think you can love someone and then one day just say "Ya know, I dont love you anymore. Bye bye." I dunno this. Wish I did, but I don't. Not really sure if it's good or bad. It's prolly good for my man cuz he knows I would take him back no matter what he have done, but it's prolly not that good for me as it gives me alot of emotional suffering usualy.

I was reading Bunny's thread the other day, not sure wich one it was, but she said there that she likes to be hurt emotionaly. It made me think I might like the same? cuz take my man back over and over again is the best way how to get hurt again, I know that very well. But I must say "NO", I don't like this kind of pain. Not the emotional one, I am just into physical pain. For my well being I need to be treated with love and care, not to be used and left crying on the floor after. I might like this as a play scene. Some way this makes me hot, to be used this way. Abused untill I end in tears. While play yes, why not, BUT for real life, I cannot imagine a man leaving me just like that. Treating me like that. If he used me and then left me there crying, telling me I am worth of a shit, it would lostlikely make me throw myself under the train.

I am willing take alot for man I love, but theres a big RED FLAG when it comes to feelings and emotions. Thats where my hard limits are. I am very sensitive person and I get hurt quite easily. I could never put up with someone who wouldn't treat me with a bit of love in it, guess I just need it. I love devious twysted men, BUT they must have the caring side in them as well, else I would get just hurt and thats something I am not intrested at all. Had enough of that really, now I crave the love and care.

When I think of my man and the "WHY" we are still together, I can say just this. He obviously have hurt my feelings, but he never done anything that would actualy make me want to END our relationship. We have split many many times, but it was always him leaving me. He didn't give me a reason to give up on him yet. I been hurt yes, but guess he will or have to love me or hurt me some more, to MAKE me leave him once for ever.

There are things that sadness me and hurts me, but its nuthing I would
ever leave him for. As long as he says he loves me, I want/need him around and I will keep trying to work it out, to make things better, to be become better person for him if possible. Once I would see him kiss another women lips I might get cured quite fast tho cuz then I would have to admit I was just fooling myself and that I believed the lie. As long as he says he loves me, I tend to believe it. He would have to do something really shitty to make me think different. Guess I would have to see it with my own eyes and get hurt that bad, that I just couldn't different than let him go.

I get hurt manytimes, not that bad tho and guess I am recovering from it quite fast or I dunno. It' hard to explain. Or maybe I just don't wanna admit to myself that I've wasted 15 years of my life with loving a man who never really loved me back. I hope not. I know he loved me and I know he still loves me as well, someway, his own way. It might not be what I wish for, but I am thanful for that.

I don't really think love just dissapears. Well, at least not with me. Or you love someone or you don't. It's not like it's there today and gone tomorrow. I dunno this, I really don't and I admire people who does. Guess life is way much easier for them. I usualy make my life just harder for myself with the way I am and think. If nuthing else I hope it will help someone or that someone will find my love as a blessing for them.

I don't care that much about myself usualy. Things I do I do for a purpose and always cuz of someone else, for someone else. Be it my kids or a well being of my ex husband. It's hard to explain.


As for the "euphoria"....
It can't be euphoria after 15 years we been together, can it? I think I know my man very well after all those years. I know his good sides and I know his bad sides. Theres things that makes me happy and theres things that makes me cry. I still want to spend the rest of my life with him tho, so yes guess I still love that man.



I am okay. Maybe a bit sad or frustrated at times, but I am fine.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Not much time to reply individually at the moment, but I am still wondering why this thought persists in the minds of most that once you reach a deepening of love where you can both work together through the traumas and problems in life etc., that the euphoria necessarily becomes a thing of the past. I don't see it as an either/or situation because I have seen it in other people's relationships as well as our own, where they both co-exist. I see so many people in everyday life who just coast along in a relationship because they feel they have to, that this is the natural course of a relationship...indifference and boredom... and feel it is normal to feel that way...why?

We have been through our fair share of trying life situations since almost the first months of our marriage which we worked through together and with each year that passes we acknowledge our love goes another level deeper and becomes more of a constancy in our hearts and souls...but we also have a euphoria or whatever term works best for each that has been there from the first moment we kissed. When I returned from Oz recently, he had to grab me to stop me from falling over as the world spun when he kissed me, and continued to do so just from being near him, smelling him, tasting him, hearing his voice, feeling his touch...he has similar reactions to being near me or thinking of me on a daily basis, often several times a day. IMHO, it doesnt mean we don't have the depth and won't last the hard miles, if anything to me it is added insurance.

Could it be that our lives have become more negative focused in generaal so we are often quick to dismiss the reality of both co-existing? Do we have some image that to leave the euphoria behind we are being more mature and real? Is it perhaps that while these thoughts exist in our subconscious that our reality is influenced and shaped by them?

Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

Not much time to reply individually at the moment, but I am still wondering why this thought persists in the minds of most that once you reach a deepening of love where you can both work together through the traumas and problems in life etc., that the euphoria necessarily becomes a thing of the past. I don't see it as an either/or situation because I have seen it in other people's relationships as well as our own, where they both co-exist. I see so many people in everyday life who just coast along in a relationship because they feel they have to, that this is the natural course of a relationship...indifference and boredom... and feel it is normal to feel that way...why?

We have been through our fair share of trying life situations since almost the first months of our marriage which we worked through together and with each year that passes we acknowledge our love goes another level deeper and becomes more of a constancy in our hearts and souls...but we also have a euphoria or whatever term works best for each that has been there from the first moment we kissed. When I returned from Oz recently, he had to grab me to stop me from falling over as the world spun when he kissed me, and continued to do so just from being near him, smelling him, tasting him, hearing his voice, feeling his touch...he has similar reactions to being near me or thinking of me on a daily basis, often several times a day. IMHO, it doesnt mean we don't have the depth and won't last the hard miles, if anything to me it is added insurance.

Could it be that our lives have become more negative focused in generaal so we are often quick to dismiss the reality of both co-existing? Do we have some image that to leave the euphoria behind we are being more mature and real? Is it perhaps that while these thoughts exist in our subconscious that our reality is influenced and shaped by them?

Catalina

cat,

I really don't get where you're coming from right now. Unless you are suggesting that you spend all day, every day in a euphoric, meaning almost manic state, then most of us on this thread have agreed that beyond the initial stages of love, deeper love certainly includes happiness, love and contentment.

Euphoria has different definitions. It can mean simply very happy, or it can mean a manic-like high. I don't think you are suggesting that you spend all day in euphoric mania. That isn't healthy. But you feel it sometimes. He kisses you, and you still feel it. Well, sure!

No one is saying that is impossible. What would not be desirable or healthy is to spend all day in constant euphoric mania, which is what many associate with the early days of falling deeply in love. If that didn't evolve, you'd never get the grocery shopping done.

 

[Netzach]

Uh because I can't fuck all day and still pay rent.

Meeting when you're poor, ignoring it, and 28 is fun, but it's not sustainable. Do I really have to justify that statement to prove that I'm having the romance of a lifetime? Do I really have to explain WHY I might say that for my relationship to possibly have validity in your brain?

Yes, we embarrass other people when I get home after 2 or 3 weeks in NYC with the kissing, and neither of us are the doing it in public type. Yes his first words to me are "don't do that again, I beg you." Yes he gains 8 pounds when I leave that long.

I'm not sorry I'm married, and I'm not just existing in the grey doldrums you seem to think everyone but you exists in. Just thinking about M in the sheets curls my toes, and the best moment of my day is the one he comes through the door. But I would not personally choose the rather hippie term "euphoria" for it - it's not a question of other people not admitting that whatever your reality is is possible - the connotation of "euphoria" is not preferable for me to mere happiness. Inferior and dull, I know.

You seem to really latch on to what everyone else in relationships is thinking and their motivation. I have to say I generally look at other people and they're a pretty big question mark to me - I only know what motivates and excites me about my husband and maybe my lover on a good day. I usually assume the better unless I know the person is a chronic repeater of the same thing.

I do take a look at certain rels. and think the old adage "repeating the same steps and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity" - but I don't feel like those people are worse than I am for repeating them - we go through things as many times as we have to, I think. For me, I found that I changed certain variables in my experiments immediately only to find others repeated - it's really always a process of some kind, the learning.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I think that in a lot of relationships that euphoria is sort of an obsession..an addiction if I may. If the relationship gets past that point. To where you love with a clear mind, seeing every fault and still loving that person is when love goes from this obsessive state to reality.

DING DING DING!!! My husband and I have been thru the ringer and back and most recently had decided to divorce and split up and go our seperate ways amicibly when he realized he wanted me to be truly happy and in order for that to happen he needed to stay in my life, you see he fell in love with a polyamourous submissive.... he knew this 4 years ago when we met and he tried to change me and it didnt work... but he is slowly adapting to this lifestyle and I love him even more for it... I will say our love isnt constantly euphoric but he is the one I want to share my day with, the one I love to curl up with at night and be with when I dont feel good... My sir offers me something totally different.... on a very different level and I am blessed to have both in my life... I truly love that both men in my life see my faults and at the end of the day still adore and love me to no end....

 

[catalina_francisco]

cat,

I really don't get where you're coming from right now. Unless you are suggesting that you spend all day, every day in a euphoric, meaning almost manic state, then most of us on this thread have agreed that beyond the initial stages of love, deeper love certainly includes happiness, love and contentment.

I will try once again then and try to word it differently in the hope it makes sense to others. OK, here goes. I see Netzach (and others) post about ups and downs and difficulties....I have always said our relationship is not all hearts and flowers simply because that is what I view as unrealistic over any period of time in any relationship..***** happens, shit happens, problems have to be dealt with and not always are they within your control in the first place. I also see it equated that to feel you still have moments of euphoria and that 'deeply in love' feeling to the point as I described of both F and I having physical and emotional reactions which support this on an almost daily basis...probably at least 90% of the time, maybe slightly more...means you have not reached a depth in your relationship deemed as real.

The difference is that what I am seeing from most is the belief that the euphoria of 'in love' is unsustainable, and equates to sex all day every day (that to me is nothing to do with love, more lust, but may be a physical reaction to love), unrealistic, lacking depth, basically a transitory stage that ebbs away, has to be constant from moment to moment or it is not real or even there. My question is why do most people tend to see the positive aspect of 'in love' as unrealistic because it is not present every moment of every day, and yet feel the negative aspects of struggling, disagreeing, working on it, is the full picture, or perhaps more to the point, the dominant descriptor of the relationship when those moments also do not fill every waking moment of every day? To me it seems embracing the negative is more attractive or acceptable than admitting there is a balance of both and appreciating that such a dichotomy where positive heady moments survive actually exists...why?

Maybe Furry Fury said it best or more simply in her post when she said,

"have to say that I believe stopping and smelling the flowers is important. That is part of what keeps the bliss alive. You have to stop, think about why you love that other person and be grateful to have them in your life everyday. That, for me, helps to keep the magic alive.

Too often we get busy. Too often we only focus on what we are not happy with and take for granted the things that are going well in our lives. If we spent as much time focusing on what we are happy with, we and everyone around us would be happier."


Why is it more people are in a hurry to downplay the romance and talk up the hard work required in any relationship of worth? Is it really true that so many have reached a stage in their relationship where they feel the good and special moments are very rare or non-existant and that a relationship has to seem to be lots of constant hard work for it to survive and be considered real? Could it be that more would survive if they did as FF said and took the time to remember why they fell in love with their partner, celebrate that in very many ways and not just on your anniversary each year out of obligation and tradition, and actually see each other as special human beings and put the 'significant' back into other?

I must admit, if we lived a life where certain things didn't happen for him several times a day by him thinking of me, seeing me, kissing me, or just being in the same room...and I didn't have those moments when my head spun just because he kissed me, touched my hand, smiled my way, walked through the door etc., I would wonder why I got myself into such a sad situation. I also admit it would have a serious effect on my submission and his dominance. Dunno, perhaps it is because of the crap that has happened in my life, and his, that has helped us recognise each other for who we were as people and to each other before we even began this journey, and to appreciate it to the point we do still have those heady moments regularly as well as the depth of knowing we have each other's back, we will remain together because we don't want to be anywhere else, and we will continue to put both the hard work and the pleasant work into our relationship to ensure both the endurance and 'in love' remain real for us. What is so strange and unrealistic about this?

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I will try once again then and try to word it differently in the hope it makes sense to others. OK, here goes. I see Netzach (and others) post about ups and downs and difficulties....I have always said our relationship is not all hearts and flowers simply because that is what I view as unrealistic over any period of time in any relationship..***** happens, shit happens, problems have to be dealt with and not always are they within your control in the first place. I also see it equated that to feel you still have moments of euphoria and that 'deeply in love' feeling to the point as I described of both F and I having physical and emotional reactions which support this on an almost daily basis...probably at least 90% of the time, maybe slightly more...means you have not reached a depth in your relationship deemed as real.

The difference is that what I am seeing from most is the belief that the euphoria of 'in love' is unsustainable, and equates to sex all day every day (that to me is nothing to do with love, more lust, but may be a physical reaction to love), unrealistic, lacking depth, basically a transitory stage that ebbs away, has to be constant from moment to moment or it is not real or even there. My question is why do most people tend to see the positive aspect of 'in love' as unrealistic because it is not present every moment of every day, and yet feel the negative aspects of struggling, disagreeing, working on it, is the full picture, or perhaps more to the point, the dominant descriptor of the relationship when those moments also do not fill every waking moment of every day? To me it seems embracing the negative is more attractive or acceptable than admitting there is a balance of both and appreciating that such a dichotomy where positive heady moments survive actually exists...why?

Maybe Furry Fury said it best or more simply in her post when she said,

"have to say that I believe stopping and smelling the flowers is important. That is part of what keeps the bliss alive. You have to stop, think about why you love that other person and be grateful to have them in your life everyday. That, for me, helps to keep the magic alive.

Too often we get busy. Too often we only focus on what we are not happy with and take for granted the things that are going well in our lives. If we spent as much time focusing on what we are happy with, we and everyone around us would be happier."


Why is it more people are in a hurry to downplay the romance and talk up the hard work required in any relationship of worth? Is it really true that so many have reached a stage in their relationship where they feel the good and special moments are very rare or non-existant and that a relationship has to seem to be lots of constant hard work for it to survive and be considered real? Could it be that more would survive if they did as FF said and took the time to remember why they fell in love with their partner, celebrate that in very many ways and not just on your anniversary each year out of obligation and tradition, and actually see each other as special human beings and put the 'significant' back into other?

I must admit, if we lived a life where certain things didn't happen for him several times a day by him thinking of me, seeing me, kissing me, or just being in the same room...and I didn't have those moments when my head spun just because he kissed me, touched my hand, smiled my way, walked through the door etc., I would wonder why I got myself into such a sad situation. I also admit it would have a serious effect on my submission and his dominance. Dunno, perhaps it is because of the crap that has happened in my life, and his, that has helped us recognise each other for who we were as people and to each other before we even began this journey, and to appreciate it to the point we do still have those heady moments regularly as well as the depth of knowing we have each other's back, we will remain together because we don't want to be anywhere else, and we will continue to put both the hard work and the pleasant work into our relationship to ensure both the endurance and 'in love' remain real for us. What is so strange and unrealistic about this?

Catalina

Why would you assume that anyone is any different from you who is in a committed romantic relationship on these very basic levels?

Maybe other than having a stronger sense of privacy about those moments?

I talk about it being hard work, because that's where connection with other people gets interesting. There's really nothing for other people to add to or detract from this very private and personal kind of love. I don't see it as up for commentary or review. Maybe that's a bad assumption and I should start a thread about why my boy is the best in the world.

I also assume that people who are living together as mates of whatever kind have their version of this going on, it's not that much of a stretch. I don't look at other couples and go "gee, if only they could know the bliss I know" I go "love, cool."

As analogy, I'm dementedly, passionately happy in my work.

I still work 11-13 hours a day with intermittant lit posts, bitch about sales being down, and pull my hair out when I have a problem with the mail.