So, Lesbians, what's the deal?

[Marquis]

I feel like I run into homosexual men all day, every day, but never lesbians.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of what gay guys are about, lesbians, I have no clue.

I am totally ignorant, explain!

 

[temp256]

Lesbians are about women liking other women. That's it. Anything else is entirely subjective. Not everyone is into the culture.

 

[Marquis]

Lesbians are about women liking other women. That's it. Anything else is entirely subjective. Not everyone is into the culture.

Well I suppose what I would like to know about then is the culture.

I will summarize for you the entirety of my knowledge about the lesbionic sorority.

1. short hair

2. denim, flannel, leather

3. Ellen

4. often strong proponents of feminism

5. common to associate as a top or bottom, similar to gay relationships

6. scissoring?

7. moving in too fast

8. Rosie

 

[renard_ruse]

I feel like I run into homosexual men all day, every day, but never lesbians.

Really? I know about three homosexual men. Yes, more in the past cause I worked in a "gay neighborhood" for a while, but still not that many. There always seems to be lots of lesbians around though, which doesn't even mention the bisexual female phenomena these days. It seems like over 50% of women these days are bisexuals, and the rest are contemplating it. As a straight man I'm very confused about this tendency, though most men seem to welcome it for some reason.

 

[kbate]

1. short hair
Wrong
2. denim, flannel, leather
wrong
3. Ellen
fake
4. often strong proponents of feminism
wrong
5. common to associate as a top or bottom, similar to gay relationships
wrong
6. scissoring?
rarely
7. moving in too fast
why not
8. Rosie
blech

 

[Marquis]

Really? I know about three homosexual men. Yes, more in the past cause I worked in a "gay neighborhood" for a while, but still not that many. There always seems to be lots of lesbians around though, which doesn't even mention the bisexual female phenomena these days. It seems like over 50% of women these days are bisexuals, and the rest are contemplating it. As a straight man I'm very confused about this tendency, though most men seem to welcome it for some reason.

I'm not sure where you live, but in Fort Lauderdale I find that it's not all that often I run into women I can easily identify as lesbians. Not saying it never happens, but not anywhere close to as often as encountering easily identifiable gays.

Obviously this is all relative to my 'dar.

I've noticed more of them with my girlfriend, who is bisexual and looks a little butch. She catches a lot of interesting stares from a surprising variety of women.

 

[Marquis]

1. short hair
Wrong
2. denim, flannel, leather
wrong
3. Ellen
fake
4. often strong proponents of feminism
wrong
5. common to associate as a top or bottom, similar to gay relationships
wrong
6. scissoring?
rarely
7. moving in too fast
why not
8. Rosie
blech

Ellen, fake?

Short hair, wrong?

I don't know, I feel like maybe I need to see a few more responses, but this is a good start.

 

[Etoile]

Ellen, fake?

Short hair, wrong?

I don't know, I feel like maybe I need to see a few more responses, but this is a good start.

I gotta ask, Marquis, what prompted you to wander over here? I mean, kudos to you for stepping up to it, but what triggered the inquiry?

So you want to know about lesbians. Well, we're pretty much like everybody else. I mean, we have our unique things, but it's like you being a Dom. You're dominant, sure, but you're a person too. I'm the same way. I'm a person, but I happen to be a lesbian. (My wife says to add "we watch American Idol just like everyone else!") temp256 is right that not everyone is "into the culture" but that statement does indicate that there's a culture out there. So that's what I'll try to explain. Keep in mind that this is only my interpretation...others might say differently.

Lesbians are women who prefer the company of other women. You're right, we are frequently feminists, because we know that we don't need the men. (I grew up with that song.) See, a lot of men believe they are god's gift to women. Women, on the other hand, don't usually have that particular conceit. Some do - I'm thinking of Shane from the L Word here - but most of the time we relate on a very different level than "Me Tarzan, you Jane."

See, one thing for me, is that I don't get men. I don't understand how your brains work. It amazes me that women can even be heterosexual, because to me, men are big hulks of confusion. I just do not understand men, I do not comprehend men, I do not get men. Women, on the other hand, I find it much easier to know what they are thinking, to understand their reasons and motives, I know what to expect, I know how they work. Men are just...what do I do with this thing? The interactions I have with men are usually fine, but on an intimate and romantic level I just don't make the connection.

As for all the stereotypes you mentioned, my wife would like me to point out that stereotypes are often based in reality. Yes, there are dykes out there with short hair who wear flannel. However, the reason that is the "typical" lesbian image, is because the rest of us aren't so obvious. I've written about femme invisibility many times. I've been criticized at all-gay events for being the only femme one, the only one with long hair, etc. People have accused me of being straight! But the reality is, lesbians come in all shapes and sizes. You cannot tell by looking at her if a woman is a lesbian. (Unless she's humping her girlfriend's leg.) Sure, I look like your average straight girl...but I'm not. And there are MANY like me.

Ellen, Rosie, Melissa...they've all done great things to advance lesbians in the eyes of the world. Ellen was a successful comedian before she came out. She has a talk show that's popular with many people. Melissa is a rocker, and people like her for her music as well as her politics. Rosie...well, she had her day. She's not so popular anymore but she used to be very big. I certainly never pegged her as one of us! And Jodie...well, honey, we all knew you were gay, but thanks for finally admitting it. In fact, I think the difference between Ellen and Jodie might explain very well the difference between lesbians. They are very different people, are they not? They are blonde female celebrities and that's where the similarities end. And yet they're both gay.

Sexual activities...is that really what you came here to ask about? Well, Lit is a sex board, so maybe so. You mention "scissoring" but I have never met a woman who has done that, as far as I know. I never have. It's just too damn complicated. My wife and I use our hands and mouths on each other all the time, and we play with toys too. But clit-on-clit action is just a big tangled mess IMHO.

Regarding the "top/bottom" thing, I think you may be mixing it up with butch/femme. There are some women who fall into one role or the other. Some butches simply do not like to be touched, but that doesn't mean all butches are tops. The "role" divide is more commonly butch/femme than top/bottom...a lot of butches love to get fucked. To put it more simply, gender expression is different from sexual proclivities. Just because a gay guy is really super masculine doesn't mean he won't bend over and spread for a hot trick. And just because a guy is fluffy and feminine doesn't mean he won't ream your ass hard given the chance. It works the same way for women, but women are more likely to be "versatile" (in gay parlance) than some men are. I know gay guys who will NOT try the other side, but I think women are more likely to give it a go.

Moving in too fast? Well, who decides what's "too fast" and what's reasonable? You're thinking of the U-Haul joke. "What does a lesbian bring on a first date?" A toothbrush. "What does a lesbian bring on a second date?" A U-Haul. Har har. I think this relates to the fact that women click more intimately with each other than they do with men. It takes a while for a woman to trust a guy - historically, male-on-female violence has been higher than the reverse, so it's understandable that a woman has to trust him more. But for lesbians there is sometimes a perception that women are "safe" and so they can trust earlier and perhaps think a relationship will last forever after just a few dates. We just click closer, somehow.

You mentioned your gaydar. I want to reiterate that you can't trust that shit when it comes to lesbians. I look as straight as the next girl, but I go home at night to my wife. Gaydar is not really trustworthy when it comes to women. Half the time when you think a woman is a dyke, she's actually just kind of masculine. Or maybe she's European. But she definitely sleeps with men. Of course half the time you're right...but half the time you're wrong.

We are a complicated tribe, and yet we are just like you. We are as complex as any other subculture, and yet we are a part of the greater culture.

I don't know if I've given you any food for thought or not, Marquis. Ask away if you have further questions. Hopefully others will chime in too.

 

[ttm_mtt]

Lesbian Dates

I see them occasionally. We used to have a lesbian couple in my small southern town. They were kinda cute together. I haven't seen them in a year or so, maybe they moved or broke up.

When I travel to other cities (job or personal) I occasionally see lesbian couples out, as I call it, on dates. Maybe they are just out together, but usually I see that sort of newness in their eyes.

Funny thing, I have never noticed gay dating. Maybe I just don't "see" it when I see 2 men together. Maybe it is just to risky for men, or I'm not in the right part of town.

 

[Etoile]

I see them occasionally. We used to have a lesbian couple in my small southern town. They were kinda cute together. I haven't seen them in a year or so, maybe they moved or broke up.

When I travel to other cities (job or personal) I occasionally see lesbian couples out, as I call it, on dates. Maybe they are just out together, but usually I see that sort of newness in their eyes.

Funny thing, I have never noticed gay dating. Maybe I just don't "see" it when I see 2 men together. Maybe it is just to risky for men, or I'm not in the right part of town.

May I ask what makes you think they are lesbians when you see them out and about?

 

[ttm_mtt]

holding hands

hugging, kissing. Seems pretty convincing to me.

Some look the butch stereotype, others don't. But it is easily more than just 2 girls out for lunch or a dinner as friends.

 

[PutterBoy]

Etoile:

Men are "big hulks of confusion." I really like that. I know I'm pretty much confused on a daily basis, but I never knew it showed.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Etoile: am I really that confusing ?

Seriously, I am the last person you should be confused over. I am what you see and read, and that is it. Honest to the bone, and that is about it.
And "a Gods gift to women ?" lol only male chauvinist pigs are like that. Ok, enough of my bollocks

But seriously, if you find me confusing, then I don´t know what to say if I am an enigma, then fine. Since I like being the enigma then

 

[Samuelx]

I've had one lesbian friend in my entire life. It's Kitty C. of Bay State.
Nice gal. Funny and a good writer. I miss her charm and wit. I also miss my gay pal Henry P. of Bay State and Salem.

 

[BDisaster]

i like women, other than that I think Im just like any other female youd see walking down the street. Theres plenty of straight women who dress rather butch as there is many gay women who dress femme

 

[Marquis]

I gotta ask, Marquis, what prompted you to wander over here? I mean, kudos to you for stepping up to it, but what triggered the inquiry?

So you want to know about lesbians. Well, we're pretty much like everybody else. I mean, we have our unique things, but it's like you being a Dom. You're dominant, sure, but you're a person too. I'm the same way. I'm a person, but I happen to be a lesbian. (My wife says to add "we watch American Idol just like everyone else!") temp256 is right that not everyone is "into the culture" but that statement does indicate that there's a culture out there. So that's what I'll try to explain. Keep in mind that this is only my interpretation...others might say differently.

Lesbians are women who prefer the company of other women. You're right, we are frequently feminists, because we know that we don't need the men. (I grew up with that song.) See, a lot of men believe they are god's gift to women. Women, on the other hand, don't usually have that particular conceit. Some do - I'm thinking of Shane from the L Word here - but most of the time we relate on a very different level than "Me Tarzan, you Jane."

See, one thing for me, is that I don't get men. I don't understand how your brains work. It amazes me that women can even be heterosexual, because to me, men are big hulks of confusion. I just do not understand men, I do not comprehend men, I do not get men. Women, on the other hand, I find it much easier to know what they are thinking, to understand their reasons and motives, I know what to expect, I know how they work. Men are just...what do I do with this thing? The interactions I have with men are usually fine, but on an intimate and romantic level I just don't make the connection.

As for all the stereotypes you mentioned, my wife would like me to point out that stereotypes are often based in reality. Yes, there are dykes out there with short hair who wear flannel. However, the reason that is the "typical" lesbian image, is because the rest of us aren't so obvious. I've written about femme invisibility many times. I've been criticized at all-gay events for being the only femme one, the only one with long hair, etc. People have accused me of being straight! But the reality is, lesbians come in all shapes and sizes. You cannot tell by looking at her if a woman is a lesbian. (Unless she's humping her girlfriend's leg.) Sure, I look like your average straight girl...but I'm not. And there are MANY like me.

Ellen, Rosie, Melissa...they've all done great things to advance lesbians in the eyes of the world. Ellen was a successful comedian before she came out. She has a talk show that's popular with many people. Melissa is a rocker, and people like her for her music as well as her politics. Rosie...well, she had her day. She's not so popular anymore but she used to be very big. I certainly never pegged her as one of us! And Jodie...well, honey, we all knew you were gay, but thanks for finally admitting it. In fact, I think the difference between Ellen and Jodie might explain very well the difference between lesbians. They are very different people, are they not? They are blonde female celebrities and that's where the similarities end. And yet they're both gay.

Sexual activities...is that really what you came here to ask about? Well, Lit is a sex board, so maybe so. You mention "scissoring" but I have never met a woman who has done that, as far as I know. I never have. It's just too damn complicated. My wife and I use our hands and mouths on each other all the time, and we play with toys too. But clit-on-clit action is just a big tangled mess IMHO.

Regarding the "top/bottom" thing, I think you may be mixing it up with butch/femme. There are some women who fall into one role or the other. Some butches simply do not like to be touched, but that doesn't mean all butches are tops. The "role" divide is more commonly butch/femme than top/bottom...a lot of butches love to get fucked. To put it more simply, gender expression is different from sexual proclivities. Just because a gay guy is really super masculine doesn't mean he won't bend over and spread for a hot trick. And just because a guy is fluffy and feminine doesn't mean he won't ream your ass hard given the chance. It works the same way for women, but women are more likely to be "versatile" (in gay parlance) than some men are. I know gay guys who will NOT try the other side, but I think women are more likely to give it a go.

Moving in too fast? Well, who decides what's "too fast" and what's reasonable? You're thinking of the U-Haul joke. "What does a lesbian bring on a first date?" A toothbrush. "What does a lesbian bring on a second date?" A U-Haul. Har har. I think this relates to the fact that women click more intimately with each other than they do with men. It takes a while for a woman to trust a guy - historically, male-on-female violence has been higher than the reverse, so it's understandable that a woman has to trust him more. But for lesbians there is sometimes a perception that women are "safe" and so they can trust earlier and perhaps think a relationship will last forever after just a few dates. We just click closer, somehow.

You mentioned your gaydar. I want to reiterate that you can't trust that shit when it comes to lesbians. I look as straight as the next girl, but I go home at night to my wife. Gaydar is not really trustworthy when it comes to women. Half the time when you think a woman is a dyke, she's actually just kind of masculine. Or maybe she's European. But she definitely sleeps with men. Of course half the time you're right...but half the time you're wrong.

We are a complicated tribe, and yet we are just like you. We are as complex as any other subculture, and yet we are a part of the greater culture.

I don't know if I've given you any food for thought or not, Marquis. Ask away if you have further questions. Hopefully others will chime in too.

This post was super informative Etoile. Thank you very much. I came here out of sheer curiosity, nothing beyond what I said in my original post.

So much of what you've said makes sense. I had an inkling of this before, but haven't really had the opportunity to see it happen myself, you know?

The scissoring thing was a humorous reference to an episode of South Park that dealt with lesbians.

I agree with you about my gaydar. I think there could be a variety of reasons for this, but it still seems like there are less committed lesbians than there are committed gay men. Is that simply not the case?

I'm open to being wrong, but I want to hear you say it. Do you think there are as many confirmed lesbians in your town as there are confirmed gay men? Is it possible that homosexuality is less common among women?

 

[Etoile]

Etoile: am I really that confusing ?

Seriously, I am the last person you should be confused over. I am what you see and read, and that is it. Honest to the bone, and that is about it.
And "a Gods gift to women ?" lol only male chauvinist pigs are like that. Ok, enough of my bollocks

But seriously, if you find me confusing, then I don´t know what to say if I am an enigma, then fine. Since I like being the enigma then

The post wasn't about you, dear. I didn't mention your name anywhere. If you read it a little more closely you will see what I mean.

 

[Etoile]

This post was super informative Etoile. Thank you very much. I came here out of sheer curiosity, nothing beyond what I said in my original post.

So much of what you've said makes sense. I had an inkling of this before, but haven't really had the opportunity to see it happen myself, you know?

The scissoring thing was a humorous reference to an episode of South Park that dealt with lesbians.

I agree with you about my gaydar. I think there could be a variety of reasons for this, but it still seems like there are less committed lesbians than there are committed gay men. Is that simply not the case?

I'm open to being wrong, but I want to hear you say it. Do you think there are as many confirmed lesbians in your town as there are confirmed gay men? Is it possible that homosexuality is less common among women?

I'm very pleased my post was so helpful to you!

No, I don't think it's likely at all that it's less common. I think that it's easier for lesbians to "blend in" and appear straight than it is for many gay men. I'm totally making up numbers here, but let's say there are 1000 gays and lesbians in your town. 500 of each. You might recognize 200 of the men as gay, but you might only recognize 50 of the women as gay. It doesn't mean there are fewer lesbians, there are still 500 of each. But they are just harder to recognize.

So, yeah. I would say you are wrong. It's just harder to recognize lesbians when we're out and about. We're still out there though.

 

[Powertone]

my wife would like me to point out that stereotypes are often based in reality


gotta luv that...the "my wife" part...I met a homosexual male once who while making small talk with me about my personal life...( marriage,WIFE,a child)... he dropped in a tidbit that "we" were similar because "his husband" had similar professional obligations that my wife has in my marriage...too much,man.

 

[Etoile]

my wife would like me to point out that stereotypes are often based in reality


gotta luv that...the "my wife" part...I met a homosexual male once who while making small talk with me about my personal life...( marriage,WIFE,a child)... he dropped in a tidbit that "we" were similar because "his husband" had similar professional obligations that my wife has in my marriage...too much,man.

What's too much?

I've been with my "life partner" since February 1998. We got matching rings in November 2004. We consider ourselves married - we just happen to live in a state that doesn't allow it. But since we consider ourselves married, so I call her my wife. I don't think it's so strange. Like I said, gay people are people too. Why shouldn't we use the same words?

 

[Marquis]

I'm very pleased my post was so helpful to you!

No, I don't think it's likely at all that it's less common. I think that it's easier for lesbians to "blend in" and appear straight than it is for many gay men. I'm totally making up numbers here, but let's say there are 1000 gays and lesbians in your town. 500 of each. You might recognize 200 of the men as gay, but you might only recognize 50 of the women as gay. It doesn't mean there are fewer lesbians, there are still 500 of each. But they are just harder to recognize.

So, yeah. I would say you are wrong. It's just harder to recognize lesbians when we're out and about. We're still out there though.

Yeah, I totally see what you're saying and I'm so glad I brought this up.

Do you think it's just easier for me to recognize gay men than gay women, or do lesbians just blend in better in general?

 

[DarkBee]

Yeah, I totally see what you're saying and I'm so glad I brought this up.

Do you think it's just easier for me to recognize gay men than gay women, or do lesbians just blend in better in general?

I think lesbians are not as noticable as gays: sometimes you only have to hear a man speak and you know the second he opens his mouth he is gay. I hardly see (or hear, for that matter) any women who I instantly recognize as lesbian. So yes, I think lesbians blend in a lot better than gays.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Ok, I think I can answer many questions through songs, one of them are : People are People

Another one is

About love and lust, which can be explained through this song. Which only has lust in it, so it could rhyme on trust.

A Question Of Lust

live version of this song

And here is about a person who wants somebody.

Somebody

And here is my two cents about sexualities.

Freelove

Etoile: I know you weren´t talking about me, but I was only teasing you a little

 

[Etoile]

Yeah, I totally see what you're saying and I'm so glad I brought this up.

Do you think it's just easier for me to recognize gay men than gay women, or do lesbians just blend in better in general?

A little of both, maybe? Like you, I find it easier to identify gay men than lesbians. (However, I do see a lot more lesbians than there are out there, mostly because I see hot chicks that I want to get in bed!)

 

[Marquis]

A little of both, maybe? Like you, I find it easier to identify gay men than lesbians. (However, I do see a lot more lesbians than there are out there, mostly because I see hot chicks that I want to get in bed!)

Yeah, I suppose the only reason I realize how many of these guys are gay is because I get cruised on so often.

Ooooh, I used a gay term, I'm so hip!