Why the stigma for men?

[2wayroad]

I asked a guy with black nails, and that’s what I was told.

 

[Phatfeet]

I think one mistake we often make as humans is upon hearing of some sort of symbol, we suddenly see it out and about and apply it to ALL situations. It is called the Law of Instrument, credited to Abrham Maslow who said, “If all you have is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail”.

Well sometimes we just need to take things at face value.

• The woman wearing an ankle bracelet just likes how it looks on her ankle and is NOT in wife-swapping.
• 
  
• The pineapple was hard to get in pre-refrigeration days and thus was a sign of wealth and NOT an indication the house has neighbor orgies.
• 
  
• And maybe the guy just likes to paint his nails black because he has a finger and toenail fugal issues that otherwise discolor them and is NOT transgender.

Sure, maybe all those things are true, but we get into problems when we just assume.

In all these situations simple communication will tell you how they feel. It takes tactfulness, but asking the woman, “do you know that for some an anklet subject’s wife-sharing”, to which she might say, “yeah I heard that too, but I just like how it looks”. Or a man with black painted nails might say he does so because he supports those who are transgender”. And oh how we could get into trouble overthinking the tangy pineapple.

 

[2wayroad]

Um, I asked him because I was truly curious. He gave me an answer. I had no preconceived idea about what it meant.

It’s amazing what people will kindly answer of you just ask in a nice way. No need to look from afar, then go try to figure it out later. When you truly want to know, ask.

That’s how I found out what the thin color spectrum decal, and the blue rectangle decal with a yellow equal sign meant. I simply asked the person. Those were in the days on the dawn of internet, so it wasn’t easy to just go look up.

 

[sarahlacycd1]

So here I am, I love women, and love playing the part of a woman to please men. But I can't help but be frustrated that as a "man" in my day to day life I will be viewed differently if I wear a skirt, or stockings, or makeup, or most importantly, heels.

It isn't changing who I am. But I love the constricting nature of women's clothes. All of their clothes are constricting and I love it!

Heels hold your feet in tightly, and shape them how I feel they should rest naturally. Stockings and panty hoes hug your legs tightly, panties and thongs hug to your body snuggly, bras wrap your torso tightly, make up gives a feeling of your face being layered and looking good.

As a man... And yes I have my sissy side. I really want to wear all of this, and more day to day without it automatically pointing to me being "gay" or "less of a man". Like yes I sometimes, often times want to feel like a woman and please men. But in the between times I want to wear sexy tight clothing. Can we as a society not change this view point.

Maybe we need men to wear COMFORTABLY fitting heels once to see the appeal, or a pair of stockings etc. Everything women get to wear is so much more fun than what men get.

And to top it all off why do we care what gets us off? Sex is for reproduction. But we do it for fun and want to avoid reproducing. So who cares if you cum from looking at a cantelop and I cum from licking watermelons. Literally the whole thing is to make a kid. And a large percentage of us have sex for anything but that. So why worry what anyone gets off too. Society is stupid! Lol. Minus the pedo peeps of course. We need to have real consent to our pleasures. But past that why does anyone care?

I bet the people who talk crap about people wanting dick in their ass sit there and jerk off to monkeys eating bananas, or diesel trucks blowing black smoke all over. But they can't accept people want to feel good all and every day and cum to whatever they want, how they want, when they want.

I fell upon this thread recently and have to agree with the sentiments of the original post. I identify as a male closet cross dresser ( assumming I have to categorise myself) and have always been pretty much that since the the dawn of time (my time anyway.) I love women and the clothes they wear especially when they want to look sexually appealing, I suppose I have always tried to emulate this albeit in private for an unexplicable reason and so dressing gives me a huge sexual thrill. Like the post says heels, stockings, make up etc feels good which is the primary driver for why as a male I wear it.
I never considered myself gay, sissy or less of a man by wearing these items but I always knew it was not the accepted view of society to be seen to do this. By the same token I never wanted to become a woman as I just enjoyed the thrill of wearing what is perceived as women's clothing in private as it it contributed to my sexual buzz. Possibly this was partly due to the taboo nature but even to this day I do not think that a male openly wearing women's clothes in public whether sexy gear or not, maybe even anything considered a feminine item is looked upon as wholly acceptable by the masses. Certainly in my own workplace, family and social circle this is always frowned upon and would be frowned upon at best, ridiculed at worst rather than accepted.

Strange that after all these years of supposed sexual liberation and freedom that this should be the case. I am afraid that the unwritten rules of dress code are still restricted to ties, boxers and trousers etc for men and stockings, heels and basques etc for women. Any deviation from this may well still be considered "deviant" but hopefully in time the distinctions will become blurred and more acceptable.

In the meantime continue to enjoy what you do or wear whether in private or public and to hell with what others think.

 

[MaturemanAJ]

Black nails are a sign of trans solidarity. In fact, it may be possible the he began life as a she.

Interesting take on the black nail polish. Went to a couples yoga event in Palm Springs once and the couple next to.me his toenails were painted black.
Same I thought whatever trips your trigger I don't care.
Palm Springs is definitely a place to go if you want to feel accepted no matter what you are into it appears

 

[2tallpaul]

I had an attraction to women’s styles before I became aware of societal expectations about gender roles. I liked what my sister got to wear and I imprinted on that before I realized it might be a problem.

Stigma came as an undermining side effect. I was wrong for this world, other people’s expectations told me so. I was told many times that I would never be ‘a real man’. Okay, so why is that a problem that some people feel they need to be angry and sometimes violent about?

I was built more female than male no matter how hard I tried. Avid runner, biker etc but no matter what, still looked feminine. Low body hair that any female I dated had me shave. 5'10" and almost the same size as my older sister. By sixteen I wouldn't swim without a tee shirt as I was using clear medical tape to hide my nipples. At 18, i worked for a widow through the summer and with a secluded pool, we took breaks on the housework and she was the one that convinced me not to worry about the nipples and go shirtless. We are not all the same and leaving the sex out of it, I always felt female. At 40, I met a woman that brought me out of my shell. She had me in panties right away and they fit my shape so much better than men's. With HRT and the breasts popping right away, I knew I had done the right thing. Funny thing is the support I've had from friends and family, as my sister put it that it's unfair that my breasts are missing twenty years of gravity. I'm built like a professional female volleyball player, but now with larger breasts.

I try to post as none of us are the same. Unfortunately, as we photoshop and head into an AI world, our expectations will be higher than reality. Male, female or whatever, maintaining both our physical and mental health is goal to work for.

 

[Escierto]

I try to post as none of us are the same. Unfortunately, as we photoshop and head into an AI world, our expectations will be higher than reality. Male, female or whatever, maintaining both our physical and mental health is goal to work for.

I think you are right. People already have crazy ideas because of porn and it's only going to get worse.

 

[GoodnessO]

So here I am, I love women, and love playing the part of a woman to please men. But I can't help but be frustrated that as a "man" in my day to day life I will be viewed differently if I wear a skirt, or stockings, or makeup, or most importantly, heels.

It isn't changing who I am. But I love the constricting nature of women's clothes. All of their clothes are constricting and I love it!

Heels hold your feet in tightly, and shape them how I feel they should rest naturally. Stockings and panty hoes hug your legs tightly, panties and thongs hug to your body snuggly, bras wrap your torso tightly, make up gives a feeling of your face being layered and looking good.

As a man... And yes I have my sissy side. I really want to wear all of this, and more day to day without it automatically pointing to me being "gay" or "less of a man". Like yes I sometimes, often times want to feel like a woman and please men. But in the between times I want to wear sexy tight clothing. Can we as a society not change this view point.

Maybe we need men to wear COMFORTABLY fitting heels once to see the appeal, or a pair of stockings etc. Everything women get to wear is so much more fun than what men get.

And to top it all off why do we care what gets us off? Sex is for reproduction. But we do it for fun and want to avoid reproducing. So who cares if you cum from looking at a cantelop and I cum from licking watermelons. Literally the whole thing is to make a kid. And a large percentage of us have sex for anything but that. So why worry what anyone gets off too. Society is stupid! Lol. Minus the pedo peeps of course. We need to have real consent to our pleasures. But past that why does anyone care?

I bet the people who talk crap about people wanting dick in their ass sit there and jerk off to monkeys eating bananas, or diesel trucks blowing black smoke all over. But they can't accept people want to feel good all and every day and cum to whatever they want, how they want, when they want.

As a woman, I don't think of constricting clothes as "fun", & that's got nothing to do with being a woman. Women can be women in comfortable clothes. I am.

 

[jk25]

You know to help change the stigma I think I’m going to start doing little things like wearing more pastel or what has recently been thought of as women’s colors. I tend to wear plaid western shirts to work. I commute by bicycle to work so western tops work well for that. I love the pearl snaps. I also like the big collars and the feel of the fabric. I’m sure I can find some tops in pretty pastels that are made of the same material. I was looking at disco tops the other day just for fun. We all have to do our part right and start somewhere to stop this stigma around what people wear? It’s just stupid.

 

[Phatfeet]

I think the problem ultimately lies within the fashion industry itself. I know it is sort of wrong to blame someone else for a misdeed, and so I do not say this lightly. But the problem lies in that at fashion shows, the clothing designs are put on either a man or woman to show off the new created clothing design.

Therein lies the problem.

The designer has dictated if a clothing design is therefore men or woman’s fashion right from the design of it.

WHY?

They should have two cuts of their creative fashion; one to put on a male fashion model and one on a female and allow the world to chose which gender the design is for. By telling the world, “this is men’s, or this is women’s’” they are dictating men and women’s fashions and why the fashion industry never changes. Why not let the world decide? And they are rather foolish in choosing it outright anyway because they are from the onset limiting half their market.

An example might be to create a pair of new, fashionable pants that has never been done before and have both a man and woman model it. By showing us from the start what is possible without gender bias, it will suggest more diverse fashions for men and women. Slowly, as more and more designs are shown, more acceptance to diverse men’s fashions will occur, but the world has to be shown what is possible first.

 

[2wayroad]

Androgynous fashion has come and gone for decades, centuries even. Gender specific has never gone away though. Just the way it is.

 

[Phatfeet]

Androgynous fashion has come and gone for decades, centuries even. Gender specific has never gone away though. Just the way it is.

I'm not sure how accurate that is though...

High heels were originally for men so that during battle they could keep their feet firmly in the stirrups as they charged their enemy on horseback. For quite a few centuries it was considered male-only attire until the women enjoyed other attributes of the high heels like making them taller, lengthening the look of their legs, slenderizing them, etc, and slowly it has morphed into being lady's apparel.

A lot of women's fashions now have involved women taking over what was traditionally men's clothing such as jeans, overalls, sweatshirts and boots.

But in contrast the speedo was derived directly from the bikini bottom.

Some clothing too has morphed into unisex clothing such as the sweatsuit, primsolls, and leggings which both men and women wear now while needing comfortable shoes, biking or working out.

It happens more with women-wear as women strived to ditch the dress and heels of the 1950's look and become far more comfortable and practical by taking from men's traditional garb. It was not so successful a few years ago when hipsters tried to persuade men that the benefits of pantyhose were such that they should be worn. It was a big enough movement for companies to start producing "mantyhose", but never really caught on.

But sometimes it also takes technology to catch up. It was not until the advent of the disposable razor that women started shaving their legs. This was started by actresses who wanted better contrast in the days of black and white movies so their legs looked better. A look at 70’s porn will show they did not shave much of anything else until the 1990’s.Today, its rare to see a lady who does not shave her pussy in some way, and two-thirds of men shave their genitals (manscape) enough so there is shavers and razors made specifically for the task that has a specific name. All this proves it is not just men/womens clothing that morphs over time, but hygiene practices as well.

 

[2wayroad]

You know to help change the stigma I think I’m going to start doing little things like wearing more pastel or what has recently been thought of as women’s colors. I tend to wear plaid western shirts to work. I commute by bicycle to work so western tops work well for that. I love the pearl snaps. I also like the big collars and the feel of the fabric. I’m sure I can find some tops in pretty pastels that are made of the same material. I was looking at disco tops the other day just for fun. We all have to do our part right and start somewhere to stop this stigma around what people wear? It’s just stupid.

I do this when dressing gender expected in public. I noted after reading your post that I have a lot of pastel shirts in my closet. Lavender, shades of pink, coral, light blue, purple. I never realized how many I’ve collected, and will usually grab one of those first. Never a snide look or even a comment, unless it’s a compliment from a woman telling me she wishes her husband would wear that color.

 

[YespleaseYesplease]

There is a paradox with the deconstruction of gender 'norms' = the generally understood categories of body shape, dress, mannerism etc that align to female and male-ness.

Most people (certainly people here) get the fluidity argument, that gender is primarily a social construct with arbitrary delineations (eg theres nothing inherently feminine about the colour pink). But neither are the gender categories reducible.

So, as a man, if I wish to feel the sexual thrill of femininity I will seek the extreme end of female signifiers. Lipstick, lingerie, pink, lace etc. I won't try to feel like a normal, average women on an average day. The ultimate expression of this is the hyper-caricature of drag queens.

What I'm doing 'breaks' the gender divide whilst also requiring gendered signifiers to be effective.

 

[Ciceri]

So here I am, I love women, and love playing the part of a woman to please men. But I can't help but be frustrated that as a "man" in my day to day life I will be viewed differently if I wear a skirt, or stockings, or makeup, or most importantly, heels.

It isn't changing who I am. But I love the constricting nature of women's clothes. All of their clothes are constricting and I love it!

Heels hold your feet in tightly, and shape them how I feel they should rest naturally. Stockings and panty hoes hug your legs tightly, panties and thongs hug to your body snuggly, bras wrap your torso tightly, make up gives a feeling of your face being layered and looking good.

As a man... And yes I have my sissy side. I really want to wear all of this, and more day to day without it automatically pointing to me being "gay" or "less of a man". Like yes I sometimes, often times want to feel like a woman and please men. But in the between times I want to wear sexy tight clothing. Can we as a society not change this view point.

Maybe we need men to wear COMFORTABLY fitting heels once to see the appeal, or a pair of stockings etc. Everything women get to wear is so much more fun than what men get.

And to top it all off why do we care what gets us off? Sex is for reproduction. But we do it for fun and want to avoid reproducing. So who cares if you cum from looking at a cantelop and I cum from licking watermelons. Literally the whole thing is to make a kid. And a large percentage of us have sex for anything but that. So why worry what anyone gets off too. Society is stupid! Lol. Minus the pedo peeps of course. We need to have real consent to our pleasures. But past that why does anyone care?

I bet the people who talk crap about people wanting dick in their ass sit there and jerk off to monkeys eating bananas, or diesel trucks blowing black smoke all over. But they can't accept people want to feel good all and every day and cum to whatever they want, how they want, when they want.

Simple, reactive people love an easily identifiable target. As long as the heat is off them, they can dehumanize and bully others

 

[GoodnessO]

I think everyone tends to be treated differently based on how they dress. Women are definitely treated differently based on what they're wearing, & if others deem a woman is dressed appropriately, & tastefully.

 

[JCSTREET]

I refuse to wear ties and not just because I can’t tie one properly. Someone asks me why and I will gladly chew them out about how idiotic it is to voluntarily put a noose around your neck. I may not get in fights that often, but that doesn’t mean I want to set myself up for an easy defeat in one. I’m not suffering serious heat days (we have quite a few of them every year where I live) wearing long sleeves for the sake of someone else’s idea of propriety either. I know a woman who feels similarly about high heels. She refuses to compromise her comfort for someone else’s standards. Never would have gotten a job as a stripper if they didn’t allow shoes with better support than one might expect. Heh.

Not everyone appreciates such standards, of course.

It's a fashion accessory. Get over it. There are staggering numbers of women who can teach you how to tie a tie; particularly women who cross dress like Marlene Dietrich

 

[AchtungNight]

When you are feeling the stress of near death thx to a stupid fashion accessory, then you see if your opinion is the same. Personally, I doubt it.

 

[ClockworkCourtesan]

I despised the wearing of ties. To constricting, same reason I don't wear leggings now, well, there is the "other" reason, but I just don't like tight clothing, adhd or "autism" thing. Never diagnosed with either, but there are signs. However, when I was forced to wear a tie, I learned a few different ways to tie it. The traditional Windsor knot was so boring. I can sort of remember how to tie the Eldridge and True Love knots. Cape Knot was my favorite, though, pain in the ass to get right, and shirt collar played a lot into how it looked. My assigned parental units hated my "uniqueness" and gave in to me not wearing a tie. They said I was just "too flamboyant." I prefer a sundress now, anyways.