"straight", as compared to faggots, queers, and the rest of us

[liqueur]

to survive, they sublimated their sexual identity in order to "fit it" and "get by." Of course this leads to internal conflicts, and sadly, for some mental health challenges.

For context: in the 60s in the US, they were still putting men in prison for so-called homosexual activity. Women were put in institutions and given electric shock “therapy”— an extremely crude and brutal forerunner of today's ECT. I knew one survivor of that treatment. The bitterness and PTSD she lived with was beyond description.

Crossdressing was still illegal.

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

This thread has made me think hard about my life. It does dredge up a lot of VERY unpleasant memories, and I wonder what direction my life would have taken if I hadn't had to hide my attraction to other males. I learned early on that I would much rather look at a man's butt than a woman's, and I've always enjoyed see a man's crotch bulge in underwear, swimsuits, or jeans. That awareness goes back to my teen years, but all this had to be hidden. I was (and am) a musician, and I received enough bullying for that kind of "sissy" activity. The tragic thing about that is that I remember everyone in my elementary school, boys included, being active in music and proud of it. We used to have competitions among the boys to see who could sing the highest! All that changed in junior high school (in other words, puberty), where boys who were in the arts and not sports stars were vilified. Couple that kind of bullying with a growing awareness of my sexuality, and I was doomed. I didn't become "hyper-masculine" but rather withdrew. I was successful in my music and in my academics, so I responded by vilifying the jocks, cowboys, and social elite, all the while lusting after them.

Fast forward to now. I'm married to a woman and have two grown sons. I love her, and I'm still sexually attracted to her. That's what makes me think of myself as bisexual rather than straight or gay. But due to her health issues, there is no sex at home anymore, so I find myself looking for release with other men.

The point above about same-sex activities being illegal is weel taken. You get good at hiding your sexual attractions if you know that they could make you lose your job, or even end up in prison. You can see the built up resentment that resulted in Stonewall.

 

[liqueur]

I identify with every word you say here. But this especially—

didn't become "hyper-masculine" but rather withdrew. I was successful in my music and in my academics, so I responded by vilifying the jocks, cowboys, and social elite, all the while lusting after them.

I was athletic, and actually did become hyper-masculine for a while. But it was all an act. Theatre was my art, and that training actually helped me to stay in character.

In my 20s, when I started working in the building trades, I was so afraid of the tough and rough guys I was working with, so afraid of being found out. I worked so hard on my toughness. (Ironically, I was tough as the best of them, physically. It was all about the mind.) And at night I'd dream of them stripping me and tying me down on a sawhorse, and taking turns fucking me at both ends... Sending me home to my wife, leaking...

I was horny constantly with repressed sexuality.

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

I identify with every word you say here. But this especially—

I was athletic, and actually did become hyper-masculine for a while. But it was all an act. Theatre was my art, and that training actually helped me to stay in character.

In my 20s, when I started working in the building trades, I was so afraid of the tough and rough guys I was working with, so afraid of being found out. I worked so hard on my toughness. (Ironically, I was tough as the best of them, physically. It was all about the mind.) And at night I'd dream of them stripping me and tying me down on a sawhorse, and taking turns fucking me at both ends... Sending me home to my wife, leaking...

I was horny constantly with repressed sexuality.

The constant horniness of a young man with a VERY high sex drive led me to be very promiscuous in college. Looking back, I did some rather stupid things. This was just before the AIDS epidemic, but I had to get treated at the university health center a couple of times for gonorrhea. I'd tell myself that I was being a moron about my activities, but nothing could stop me. It's probably a miracle that I'm even alive with all the risky things I did. It was the anonymity of a large university that allowed me to keep up a front around my friends.

When I married, there was enough sex to allow me to keep my attraction to men on the back burner for a long time. During the dry spells that every marriage goes through, I began to seek male sex again. In the days before the internet, this wasn't real easy. It was mostly anonymous encounters at and ABS or theater. It was very much off and on over the years, but in the past twenty years or so, with sex at home drying up completely and the ease of internet contacts, I've been much more active, especially since I've found that there are LOTS of married men in my situation. We love our wives and don't want to change our status, but we're desperate for sexual intimacy. While an anonymous encounter can take the edge off, and there is certainly the "thrill of the hunt" at an ABS or bathhouse, I much prefer getting in bed with another married man. No need for labels, no questions asked, total discretion assured. And if he's a great kisser, I'm hooked! We don't need to act overly masculine or pretend at all. We both know why we're there and what we need.

 

[FlirtyWordy]

I've run into this on another thread here that discusses the topic of "being a cocksucker". I once pointed out that some use that as an identity, but I use that as an activity, which is why I use cock sucker instead of cocksucker. It's something I do, not something I am. Anyway, I get piled on for a while on that thread and in some PMs. I agree that identity is how we perceive ourselves, but there is the reality of living in a world where we have to interact with how others perceive us. Meanwhile, I just go on sucking and fucking with other men and disregard labels. When necessary, I label myself as bisexual. I love to eat and fuck pussy, and I love a nice pair of tits, but I so rarely get any of that, so the vast majority of my sexual interactions are with other men.

On a bit of a tangent, some of the slang words for homosexual men (sissy, faggot, boi, etc.) are difficult for me. It's not the words themselves, but rather the memories of bullying and harassment that they bring to mind. That may contribute to the issues some men have about labeling their sexuality as anything other that "straight".

I’m a bi married man and I really get off on “being” a cocksucker, being known as a cocksucker, thinking of myself as a cocksucker.

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

I’m a bi married man and I really get off on “being” a cocksucker, being known as a cocksucker, thinking of myself as a cocksucker.

It just goes to show that everyone is different. Some like "being" a cocksucker, a sissy, a boi, whatever. None of that appeals to me. To each his own. My problem is when people (not you, of course) take me to task for my self-appraisal and preferences, as if there is something wrong with me if I don't line up with their expectations.

 

[FlirtyWordy]

It just goes to show that everyone is different. Some like "being" a cocksucker, a sissy, a boi, whatever. None of that appeals to me. To each his own. My problem is when people (not you, of course) take me to task for my self-appraisal and preferences, as if there is something wrong with me if I don't line up with their expectations.

It’s genuinely insane when people “inform” other people what their thoughts and feelings are. The height clueless arrogance.

I’m a word person, made my living as a writer. So some words really turn me on, including cocksucker and faggot (which I love to hear when doing/being those things).

 

[liqueur]

My problem is when people (not you, of course) take me to task for my self-appraisal and preferences, as if there is something wrong with me if I don't line up with their expectations.

And that is a constant problem. Not just with sexuality, but with everything. people have their own neat little preconceived boxes— and you had better fit into one of them. And stay there!

 

[BillyWalrus]

And that is a constant problem. Not just with sexuality, but with everything. people have their own neat little preconceived boxes— and you had better fit into one of them. And stay there!

Yeah but that's kind of how human beings are. Some of the boxes are innocent - they may be just trying to fit you into their frame of reference. Other boxes - not so innocent.

 

[liqueur]

Yeah but that's kind of how human beings are. Some of the boxes are innocent - they may be just trying to fit you into their frame of reference. Other boxes - not so innocent.

Yes. It is how humans are.

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

Yes. It is how humans are.

Yes, but when one has been on the receiving end of it, in a very negative way, one can begin to think differently about others. A lot of my live-and-let-live attitude has been learned the hard way. I don't wish ill to anyone, but putting oneself in someone else's shoes can go a long way toward rising above such categorizing.

 

[liqueur]

Yes, but when one has been on the receiving end of it, in a very negative way...

I absolutely agree with you, and believe me, I've been on the receiving end. I've been raging against categorical thinking for 40 years or more.

It seems people are more aware of it now than then. But still, most of them just shrug and say “it's just the way things are.” or worse, some of them think it's a good thing.

 

[BillyWalrus]

Yes, but when one has been on the receiving end of it, in a very negative way, one can begin to think differently about others. A lot of my live-and-let-live attitude has been learned the hard way. I don't wish ill to anyone, but putting oneself in someone else's shoes can go a long way toward rising above such categorizing.

True but I have found that "live and let live" is the hardest thing for people to learn.

 

[BillyWalrus]

I absolutely agree with you, and believe me, I've been on the receiving end. I've been raging against categorical thinking for 40 years or more.

It seems people are more aware of it now than then. But still, most of them just shrug and say “it's just the way things are.” or worse, some of them think it's a good thing.

Yeah, it's one thing to realize how it is but thinking it's a good thing? Come on, people, you can do better than this.

 

[whiteasianlvr]

I would add that the GLBTQ movement has often exhibited little tolerance for those who have the temerity to veer outside their conceptions of what is acceptable thought. That President Trump has two gay men in prominent positions who actually get things done goes against their grain. It is a paradox, I admit, given that his movement encompasses those who are uncomfortable with extremist GLBTQ thought but so do some of us here. Why does being gay require one to be pro abortion for instance. Let's all be better than this.

 

[Rodlicker57]

This thread talks to me in so many ways. The bullying as a child to... becoming a big strong masculine jock…. to being married to one wonderful woman for 45 yrs with 2 kids and grandkids. I however have had many urges and some experiences with men. Am I Bi or Gay or Hetro? I really don’t know, but I keep it closeted and have had several random hookups. I have had oral pleasures with men, but really nothing else. All I know is I love my wife, but love the feel of a mans stiffening cock in my hands or mouth. I absolutely get very randy by having my dick sucked!
Calling me Gay or Bi or a Cocksucker……well I don’t know.

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

This thread talks to me in so many ways. The bullying as a child to... becoming a big strong masculine jock…. to being married to one wonderful woman for 45 yrs with 2 kids and grandkids. I however have had many urges and some experiences with men. Am I Bi or Gay or Hetro? I really don’t know, but I keep it closeted and have had several random hookups. I have had oral pleasures with men, but really nothing else. All I know is I love my wife, but love the feel of a mans stiffening cock in my hands or mouth. I absolutely get very randy by having my dick sucked!
Calling me Gay or Bi or a Cocksucker……well I don’t know.

I wrote about this in one of my stories, How the River Feels. Jack is a straight widower who unexpectedly falls in love with a man. At their first time of making love he struggles with his sexuality. Finally, he decides, "Screw the labels!" He is aroused by the naked man on the bed because Dan has captured his heart.

Yes, it's a fictional love story, but I included that scene because I find labels offensive and counterproductive. If Jack is going to live by labels, even his own, he will have struggles all his life. He decides to follow his heart and newfound desires and rise above any labels or categories.

 

[liqueur]

This thread talks to me in so many ways. The bullying as a child to... becoming a big strong masculine jock….

I hear you. Absolutely. I was never considered a jock because of my involvement in theatre, and acing my English and literature classes. Plus I was kind of a hippy even then. But I was very strong (farm boy) and athletic (soccer, judo, x-country skiing) and very quick to confront the kinds of guys who ten years earlier would have been my bullies — or who I saw bullying someone else.

But I was always alone and a loner, even when I had girlfriends, because I knew I was different and had no one I felt safe enough to explore that difference with.

Unfortunately, unlike you, I could never make a marriage last. The Alonepart was too deeply engraved in my personality. I usually sabotaged relationships, because in my twisted mind, if they were “going to leave me anyway”— and I was always convinced they were— “we might as well get it over with.”

But as for you, call yourself whatever you like, of course. I would call you bi, if you asked me, but only you can say. I've know lots of guys like you, who want me to suck their cocks, but who consider themselves straight, and who am I to say otherwise? (and I'd do the same for you, if I could.)

 

[CharlieBoker]

Regarding the OP........

I think it interesting that a few years ago when having a sexual health check there are now check box categories entitled:

Gay/ Bisexual / Men who have sex with men.

It's telling that there is a Men who have sex with men category at a health centre, for the many men out there involved in same sex activity that don't want a gay or bisexual label attached.

I think for many negative societal reasons, that is driven purely by fear and shame.

 

[Rodlicker57]

I hear you. Absolutely. I was never considered a jock because of my involvement in theatre, and acing my English and literature classes. Plus I was kind of a hippy even then. But I was very strong (farm boy) and athletic (soccer, judo, x-country skiing) and very quick to confront the kinds of guys who ten years earlier would have been my bullies — or who I saw bullying someone else.

But I was always alone and a loner, even when I had girlfriends, because I knew I was different and had no one I felt safe enough to explore that difference with.

Unfortunately, unlike you, I could never make a marriage last. The Alonepart was too deeply engraved in my personality. I usually sabotaged relationships, because in my twisted mind, if they were “going to leave me anyway”— and I was always convinced they were— “we might as well get it over with.”

But as for you, call yourself whatever you like, of course. I would call you bi, if you asked me, but only you can say. I've know lots of guys like you, who want me to suck their cocks, but who consider themselves straight, and who am I to say otherwise? (and I'd do the same for you, if I could.)

I’d love for you to suck my cock!!

 

[liqueur]

I’d love for you to suck my cock!!

The feeling is oh-so mutual. I love to be on my knees, face-to-face with a new(d) cock.

 

[Rodlicker57]

Pm?

 

[liqueur]

Pm?

Okay

 

[none2_none2]

It just goes to show that everyone is different. Some like "being" a cocksucker, a sissy, a boi, whatever. None of that appeals to me. To each his own. My problem is when people (not you, of course) take me to task for my self-appraisal and preferences, as if there is something wrong with me if I don't line up with their expectations.

There are plenty of people have issues with, but you would never be one of them. I have what I always wanted to love and be loved. So I have my piece of happiness. I do have issues with hypocrisy. I never saw that in your posts. You made a choice to marry, and have your two sons. You have honored your wife and kids by staying with them. I remember in at one of your early stories, you put so much tenderness in the feelings between the two men. So as I see it you have a big heart, you simply chose to stick to stay with your family. In this day and age when so many (not just str8, but all preferences) break up whenever things aren't ideal, it is too be commended. My partner was married and then divorced way before I met him. He once told me that having children is to have something so precious that you would tear your own heart out if it would save them. As much as I wish we had been together even longer than our almost 23 years now, I wouldn't deny him those experience that have made him the wonderfully good man he is in part due to those experiences. I couldn't fathom loving a man who didn't love his family (including of course pets). To give you some examples: 1) My partner was very close to his mom. He was devastated when she died (her heart was on the decline for quite a while. He held his emotions in check during her memorial service so that his sister, his brother, his son and his son's family could lean on him. They needed him to be their strong shoulder. 2) I always made sure he knew if he needed to be located closer to his son and family, that I had no qualms about us moving closer. As much as he loved his son and family, he didn't want to hold back his son from being on his own. Sometimes the saddest part of paternal love from what I have observed is giving that child (especially sons) the space to become their own "man".

The guys that I have issues with are the ones with this "love cock, not men" attitude. As I said I have my piece of happiness. I'm not looking any further than my own back yard as my partner is it for me. However this concept of not being gay or bi because there is no love involved is absurd. There are men who proudly claim they are 100% gay, and have no desire for romance. They just want sex with whatever turns them on to another male with whatever frequency they want it. Nobody argues with them that they aren't gay or bi because they are not homo-romantic... I just want a young guy out there who may be like I was and want a connection with a guy beyond just sex, that it is possible. He's not a freak because he wants something more. I had an extremely high sex drive. For instance when I was 17, I jacked off 17 time in 24 hours after reading my first gay story about sex in prison. As horney as I was, sex wasn't satisfying by itself. Some of my most satisfying times with men is when after the sex was over, they wanted to talk about what ever their passions were: a job, hobbies, religion, kids, music, art, pets, etc. It wasn't always sex talk. Don't get me wrong, I love to fuck. I simply wanted more. Someone to go home to when the day was done.

So again your life is commendable. You went the long haul with your wife, and your sons

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

There are plenty of people have issues with, but you would never be one of them. I have what I always wanted to love and be loved. So I have my piece of happiness. I do have issues with hypocrisy. I never saw that in your posts. You made a choice to marry, and have your two sons. You have honored your wife and kids by staying with them. I remember in at one of your early stories, you put so much tenderness in the feelings between the two men. So as I see it you have a big heart, you simply chose to stick to stay with your family. In this day and age when so many (not just str8, but all preferences) break up whenever things aren't ideal, it is too be commended. My partner was married and then divorced way before I met him. He once told me that having children is to have something so precious that you would tear your own heart out if it would save them. As much as I wish we had been together even longer than our almost 23 years now, I wouldn't deny him those experience that have made him the wonderfully good man he is in part due to those experiences. I couldn't fathom loving a man who didn't love his family (including of course pets). To give you some examples: 1) My partner was very close to his mom. He was devastated when she died (her heart was on the decline for quite a while. He held his emotions in check during her memorial service so that his sister, his brother, his son and his son's family could lean on him. They needed him to be their strong shoulder. 2) I always made sure he knew if he needed to be located closer to his son and family, that I had no qualms about us moving closer. As much as he loved his son and family, he didn't want to hold back his son from being on his own. Sometimes the saddest part of paternal love from what I have observed is giving that child (especially sons) the space to become their own "man".

The guys that I have issues with are the ones with this "love cock, not men" attitude. As I said I have my piece of happiness. I'm not looking any further than my own back yard as my partner is it for me. However this concept of not being gay or bi because there is no love involved is absurd. There are men who proudly claim they are 100% gay, and have no desire for romance. They just want sex with whatever turns them on to another male with whatever frequency they want it. Nobody argues with them that they aren't gay or bi because they are not homo-romantic... I just want a young guy out there who may be like I was and want a connection with a guy beyond just sex, that it is possible. He's not a freak because he wants something more. I had an extremely high sex drive. For instance when I was 17, I jacked off 17 time in 24 hours after reading my first gay story about sex in prison. As horney as I was, sex wasn't satisfying by itself. Some of my most satisfying times with men is when after the sex was over, they wanted to talk about what ever their passions were: a job, hobbies, religion, kids, music, art, pets, etc. It wasn't always sex talk. Don't get me wrong, I love to fuck. I simply wanted more. Someone to go home to when the day was done.

So again your life is commendable. You went the long haul with your wife, and your sons

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I love having sex with men, especially since I have no sex with my wife anymore, due to her health problems. In my Literotica stories, the autobiographical ones recount some sexual encounters, plain and simple. One records a sever-month-long affair I had with a divorced man. All of my fictional stories are based on loving relationships. That's probably because I really wonder what my life would have been like if I had grown up at a different time and under different circumstances. If my sexual desires towards men would have been socially acceptable in those days, I might very well have ended up married to a man. As it is, I married a remarkable woman and have two wonderful grown sons. My life is full (as long as I can get some sexual relief now and then), but I sometimes wonder "what if . . ."