Loving Wives? Not worth it in my opinion.

[M_K_Babalon]

I'm not surprised The Voice in my Head was popular. It's not a traditional BTB story where the cheater is unrepentant until she gets punished by her husband's deliberate actions, but it still very consistent with the general BTB tropes and themes.

More generally, I find it interesting that those are your lowest when they're still solidly over 4.0 out of 5. Maybe LW is logical and the rest of the has oddly inflated ratings? The star system says that 3 stars is "average," so shouldn't the average be 3.0?

Technically a three should be average, the way the "system" works, it is. But the reality of how it's used, the way folks vote and descern what's worth reading; it isn't. And how it collects and I guess averages votes, is somewhat on a curve. It doesn't take many five votes to bring up a one rated story, but it take a lot of one votes to bring down a five, and a few three and fours in the mix will probably still keep it 3.50+. Something like that.

 

[iwatchus]

Technically a three should be average, the way the "system" works, it is

In the US, at least, most exams are graded on a 0-100 scale. No one expects a 50 to be an average grade. I knew a professor in college who designed his exams to have an average of 50. His reasoning was that His reasoning was that using an average of say 85gave you much more room to explore what the weaker students didn't know, but an average of 50 gave you much better understanding of what the top students knew and didn't know. He had a good point, but it gave his students, who were all straight-A students in high school, apoplexy. For those who do not know the odd American system, anything below a sixty is typically failing. And these students all came inviting anything below mid90's as horrifying. There is some parallel to some of us and the ratings.

 

[bumpercars]

Is LW a trump category, in the sense that any story with infidelity in it will be poorly received in other categories and so should always go in LW?

I am almost done with a story involving infidelity - the cheaters break things off before their partners find anything out, and the ending is a little bittersweet. I don't want anyone to get upset by the infidelity (which could happen if I put it in another category) but I also don't want to anger the rageboner crowd.

 

[sirhugs]

Is LW a trump category, in the sense that any story with infidelity in it will be poorly received in other categories and so should always go in LW?

I am almost done with a story involving infidelity - the cheaters break things off before their partners find anything out, and the ending is a little bittersweet. I don't want anyone to get upset by the infidelity (which could happen if I put it in another category) but I also don't want to anger the rageboner crowd.

IMHO it is NOT a trump category in the same sense as taboo/incest (or some might say Gay Male).
There is no guaranteeing that will you not anger somebody with any story in any category... The mere act of posting in the LW category provokes anger (see the comments to my Not Another Loving Wives Tale! for example).
Post where you think best (with the exception of incest). Consider the use of a disclaimer before the beginning of the story to manage expectations ( the one I used recently on My Father's Secretary Ch. 2 seems to have worked well)

 

[MythicMind]

All I know is that all my stories have a 4.5+ EXCEPT my two LW tales, both of which are in the mid 3's. Compared to the other categories I've posted in, there are a lot of readers in LW that have very specific and narrow ideas of what qualifies as a "good story", and if a story falls outside of that, they 1-star it. The quality of the writing doesn't seem to be much of a factor. I don't think I'll be posting there any more; not worth it.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

In the US, at least, most exams are graded on a 0-100 scale. No one expects a 50 to be an average grade. I knew a professor in college who designed his exams to have an average of 50. His reasoning was that His reasoning was that using an average of say 85gave you much more room to explore what the weaker students didn't know, but an average of 50 gave you much better understanding of what the top students knew and didn't know. He had a good point, but it gave his students, who were all straight-A students in high school, apoplexy. For those who do not know the odd American system, anything below a sixty is typically failing. And these students all came inviting anything below mid90's as horrifying. There is some parallel to some of us and the ratings.

Yeah, that's incredibly different to the UK where 50% is a pass, and even in primary school, getting over 80% on any test was amazing. 70% is excellent.

For degrees, usually 70% is a First, 50% is a 2:1 (or a Pass for a Masters), 40% would be a 2:2 and about 33-35% gets you a Third. I recall being predicted I wouldn't pass a course I wasn't qualified for, worked my arse off, and got not only a Pass (32%) but Third class Honours (34%).

Still miffed I didn't get a Distinction in my Masters (I got an average of 69.5%), but a classmate had the problem of being offered an American PhD place if they got an average over 90%. The course director spent months trying to explain that three people had got over 70 in the last 25 years, and only one had got 80%, so even though they were an excellent candidate, it wasn't going to happen.

There's been big changes in UK rating culture since eBay came along. When it started here, you'd give sellers 3 stars if there was no problem, maybe 4 if there was really nice packaging and prompt delivery, and 5 stars if they gave you a free gift. Cue emails demanding to know what was wrong. Followed by Amazon and other websites doing the same thing,.and those buttons in supermarkets and hospitals - if you don't rate the top score, the software says it's a problem. No reward for excellence any more.

 

[CalBishForNow]

Is LW a trump category, in the sense that any story with infidelity in it will be poorly received in other categories and so should always go in LW?

I am almost done with a story involving infidelity - the cheaters break things off before their partners find anything out, and the ending is a little bittersweet. I don't want anyone to get upset by the infidelity (which could happen if I put it in another category) but I also don't want to anger the rageboner crowd.

Based on your description, I'd put it in either Erotic Couplings or Romance.

LW stories where cheaters get caught and punished are popular with the BTB crowd. LW stories where people almost cheat, but don't, are popular with the conventional monogamy crowd - not exactly a big or opinionated part of the audience, but it's there, and the other factions don't really get pissed off by them. LW stories with extramarital sex that's not cheating can do okay but they need to be very good to get a score that would be merely average in another category. LW stories where cheaters win are the ones people are complaining about that get 2-star-or-lower ratings and hundreds of venomous comments.

Stories with extramarital sex in other categories seem to do fine as long as the participants are basically sympathetic, as far as I can tell, but "are basically sympathetic" might be hard to square with "cheaters", as you put it. If there's group sex, exhibitionism/voyeurism, interracial love, or a dominant/submissive dynamic, it would probably do well in the respective categories, but you didn't mention any of those and I wouldn't recommend adding them just because.

If you're trying to write a story with unsympathetic protagonist(s) and a bittersweet ending, then maybe non-erotic? I don't know anything about that category here, but personally I wouldn't want to read or write a story here like that anyway, so I couldn't offer you any useful feedback.

 

[TubaBreath]

I think I discovered an issue possibly not mentioned. My assessment is there is a large contingent of haters whose intent is to trash everything immediately who do not actually read the story. Comments on my most recent story revealed several were not reading past the first page, complaining about issues that were resolved later. Infidelity consented by all affected parties? Katy bar the door, that’s the worst of the worst, and you, my dear author, are a scumbag. Then they click to the last page to deposit their “1” and maybe a hateful comment.

After lurking on this forum for several years and reading the related comments, LW is a known quantity. Doesn’t matter if the story is good, bad, or indifferent - expect the abuse.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I think I discovered an issue possibly not mentioned. My assessment is there is a large contingent of haters whose intent is to trash everything immediately who do not actually read the story. Comments on my most recent story revealed several were not reading past the first page, complaining about issues that were resolved later. Infidelity consented by all affected parties? Katy bar the door, that’s the worst of the worst, and you, my dear author, are a scumbag. Then they click to the last page to deposit their “1” and maybe a hateful comment.

After lurking on this forum for several years and reading the related comments, LW is a known quantity. Doesn’t matter if the story is good, bad, or indifferent - expect the abuse.

Some authors here insist the haters in LW are "misogynistic incels".

But I've read enough of the LW stories and all of their comments to see the pattern. They don't hate women, they hate cheaters, whether it's the husband or wife! There are those readers in LW who insist on monogamy and faithful adherence to wedding vows which they ASSUME means no sex with anyone else. So, if they read any story with extra=marital sex, they1-bomb it. And if one of the couple cheats on their spouse, those readers want repercussions against the cheater.

I'm guessing those types of LW haters may have been burned by a cheating spouse in a divorce, with the cheater getting away with half of their marital assets and living happily ever after. The "innocent" spouse is forever tormented with a feeling of injustice, now divorced and lonely. They search out stories in LW and reward those Burn-the-Bitch" ones with a 5.

 

[IWroteThis]

All I know is that all my stories have a 4.5+ EXCEPT my two LW tales, both of which are in the mid 3's. Compared to the other categories I've posted in, there are a lot of readers in LW that have very specific and narrow ideas of what qualifies as a "good story", and if a story falls outside of that, they 1-star it. The quality of the writing doesn't seem to be much of a factor. I don't think I'll be posting there any more; not worth it.

You make me feel old, because I remember when one of the first things that was beat into potential writers was, "Know your audience." It was good advice then, and it's good advice now.

The reason you got low scores is because your story didn't match the audience you picked for it.

 

[MythicMind]

The reason you got low scores is because your story didn't match the audience you picked for it.

It isn't as simple as that. I'm certain that plenty of stories get posted in the right category but don't match general expectations of the readers, and yet don't get 1-star bombed and flooded with harsh comments. As far as I can tell, this is limited to LW.

 

[iwatchus]

It isn't as simple as that. I'm certain that plenty of stories get posted in the right category but don't match general expectations of the readers, and yet don't get 1-star bombed and flooded with harsh comments. As far as I can tell, this is limited to LW.

I don't think it is limited to LW, but I think it is much more prevalent there.

 

[TheDok]

I really don't get why anybody would want to post in loving wives unless they are masochists or want to poke the bear. I write mostly in BDSM and Romance, where comments are generally fair and balanced and where a well-written story is well received by most readers. Why on earth would i want to write a story for an audience that for whatever reason is going to be unhappy and critical with nearly everything presented to them? I just cant see why I would take the time and effort to construct a story that is going to simply piss some of my audience off. Adultery and unfaithfulness are a simple fact of life, and some of my stories have an element of this but there has always been a compelling reason to put them in a different category because that's where they belonged. Maybe i lack imagination but how easy is it to plot a truly unique LW story with a novel and imaginative plot and if you can, why would you hang it out to dry in front of an audience, some of whom will leave abuse or one bomb it, before they have read the first page. I meet enough hypercritical people in real life without attracting attention online

 

[TubaBreath]

I really don't get why anybody would want to post in loving wives unless they are masochists or want to poke the bear.

Sometimes you’re not given the choice. I know firsthand management will move stories to LW if they deem the content belongs there and not where you specified. Like EC. That wasn’t recent, so who knows these days?

A friend read my most recent LW story and commented that it was a mild swinger tale and should have been elsewhere, but if my objective was to poke the bear, it certainly did a good job.

 

[iwatchus]

I really don't get why anybody would want to post in loving wives unless they are masochists or want to poke the bear. I write mostly in BDSM and Romance, where comments are generally fair and balanced and where a well-written story is well received by most readers. Why on earth would i want to write a story for an audience that for whatever reason is going to be unhappy and critical with nearly everything presented to them? I just cant see why I would take the time and effort to construct a story that is going to simply piss some of my audience off. Adultery and unfaithfulness are a simple fact of life, and some of my stories have an element of this but there has always been a compelling reason to put them in a different category because that's where they belonged. Maybe i lack imagination but how easy is it to plot a truly unique LW story with a novel and imaginative plot and if you can, why would you hang it out to dry in front of an audience, some of whom will leave abuse or one bomb it, before they have read the first page. I meet enough hypercritical people in real life without attracting attention online

You get mega views, lots of votes and lots of comments. I think that is the allure.

I have one LW story. It has real flaws as a story. But it is my second most views, my most votes by a wide margin and my most comments and favorites. Oh and it's my lowest rated story.

 

[CalBishForNow]

I really don't get why anybody would want to post in loving wives unless they are masochists or want to poke the bear. I write mostly in BDSM and Romance, where comments are generally fair and balanced and where a well-written story is well received by most readers. Why on earth would i want to write a story for an audience that for whatever reason is going to be unhappy and critical with nearly everything presented to them?

If your story is primarily about a monogamous couple with no other appropriate category (not BSDM, not interracial, etc.) then you can essentially flip a coin between Loving Wives and Erotic Coupling. It'll probably get a pretty good rating in either category but more engagement in the former.

If your story is primarily about a married couple but also involves other sexual partners, then Group Sex is a safer option if there's actual group sex in it, but people there want to see actual threesomes, gangbangs, and so on. If all coupling is just two people at a time, then it's not really a group.

If your story is about a married couple with infidelity, the protagonist is the one who's cheated on, and they get a happy ending, then it'll probably be popular overall in LW. The attention you get there will be a different kind of attention than the attention you'd get in another category, but you won't crater your rating.

If your story is about extramarital sex with openness and acceptance by all parties (maybe all along, maybe with some twists and turns), the rating you get in LW will probably be about one star lower than it would be in another category, but you'll get a lot more views and feedback, positive and negative. Beyond that, some writers may want to write for a given category or audience because it fits the theme and mood better. If a story is about the excitement of uncertainty, of wondering what else is out there, if a relationship can be betrayed and still actually be salvaged, putting it in EC or Romance might feel like cheating. So who cares about that one star?

 

[Actingup]

I really don't get why anybody would want to post in loving wives unless they are masochists or want to poke the bear. I write mostly in BDSM and Romance, where comments are generally fair and balanced and where a well-written story is well received by most readers. Why on earth would i want to write a story for an audience that for whatever reason is going to be unhappy and critical with nearly everything presented to them? I just cant see why I would take the time and effort to construct a story that is going to simply piss some of my audience off. Adultery and unfaithfulness are a simple fact of life, and some of my stories have an element of this but there has always been a compelling reason to put them in a different category because that's where they belonged. Maybe i lack imagination but how easy is it to plot a truly unique LW story with a novel and imaginative plot and if you can, why would you hang it out to dry in front of an audience, some of whom will leave abuse or one bomb it, before they have read the first page. I meet enough hypercritical people in real life without attracting attention online

The benefits of publishing in LW have been pretty heavily discussed here, but to reiterate:
- as long as you respect your audience, the comments and scoring are generally fine and much more reflective of ‘real world’ reviews than many ego-fluffing Lit categories
- if you ignore the trolls, the readership is more critically appreciative, engaged and responsive
- you’re more likely to get reflective and discerning comments
- your writing will improve more quickly than if you were posting to an unresponsive audience.
- you will have great sex with enthusiastic, unfaithful spouses*

*subject to availability. Terms and conditions apply.

To illustrate the relative degree of engagement, I’ve attached the top of my list of stories sorted by views. Other authors here will have much more spectacular stats, but I would guess that the same principles apply - a ‘hit’ in LW can get more eyeballs than a competition prizewinner by the same author. That’s pretty hard to go past if you have a suitable LW story.

 

[TheDok]

You get mega views, lots of votes and lots of comments. I think that is the allure.

I have one LW story. It has real flaws as a story. But it is my second most views, my most votes by a wide margin and my most comments and favorites. Oh and it's my lowest rated story.

If I were writing for profit, views would be important, but I'm not. Each one of us has the right to decide what's right for ourselves. Personally, I would rather fewer views and less abuse. I'm not thin-skinned, but if you work for the NHS in the UK, as I did, where anonymous feedback online is encouraged by our woke politicians with no right to reply for the doctor, nurse, healthworker,or receptionist, you might feel differently. In my professional life, I've had a skinful of nasty, unwarranted, unfair comments online. I write for fun and not abuse from trolls

 

[IWroteThis]

It isn't as simple as that. I'm certain that plenty of stories get posted in the right category but don't match general expectations of the readers, and yet don't get 1-star bombed and flooded with harsh comments. As far as I can tell, this is limited to LW.

Well, I did say audience, not category. As you noted in your reply, the audience in Loving Wives doesn't much care about the category description, in large part because there isn't a more appropriate category for them.

It's not limited to LW, but it's the most prevalent there because it's the most poorly designed category. Everything that the category description says should go in Loving Wives is just another category plus a wedding ring.

Although it doesn't happen as often, Taboo/Incest can be the same. There is a large portion of the audience that considers the category to be NotIncestButCloseEnoughToBeTaboo/Incest, and they're not shy about saying it. There are other threads in this forum about people who took a broader view of taboo and their stories suffered for it.

 

[ToddEverman]

Ive published a grand total of one LW story and I gotta say I was surprised by the results based on everything I've learned about the category and it's vitriolic readers who hate any story where the husband is cucked and / or the wife doesn't get punished in the end.

Glory Hole Wife is a simple story of a very happily married couple who live out the fantasy of her blowing multiple men at a glory hole while he watches.

I'd have thought it would get destroyed. Instead, the rating is respectable (4.24) with 466 votes.

And most surprisingly, only ONE hate comment from a guy who doesnt find glory holes erotic, and several comments berating him for his criticism.

I suppose one can never tell sometimes.

https://www.literotica.com/s/glory-hole-wife

 

[Cagivagurl]

You make me feel old, because I remember when one of the first things that was beat into potential writers was, "Know your audience." It was good advice then, and it's good advice now.

The reason you got low scores is because your story didn't match the audience you picked for it.

It is not that simple... In my opinion.

The way the categories are broken up and described. The audience can be polar opposites...
For instance, Loving wives.... The category description mentions extramarital sex...
However within the category there are several subgroups, that live at opposite ends of a wide spectrum.

So to post a story that appeals to one. You have to run the gauntlet of the readers from the other end of that spectrum. There are other categories that operate along similar lines.

Romance... Any stories placed in there that include cheating will not be appreciated...

Just my thoughts

Cagivagurl

 

[ChloeTzang]

Yeah, that's incredibly different to the UK where 50% is a pass, and even in primary school, getting over 80% on any test was amazing. 70% is excellent.

If I got less than 90% on anything all thru high school from Grade 9 on my mom seriously kicked my ass and I got a tutor for that subject.

In the US it's been grade inflation. To get admitted to the program I wanted in the University I wanted (top 5% of schools for what I wanted to do) you had to be mid-to-high 90% across the board in the required subjects just to be considered. High school biology, chemistry, algebra, and English. And when I applied there was all sorts of supplemental bullshit like essays and "evidenence f Leadership" and "blah blah blah" stuff that you had to complete and other extra-curricular stuff helped too. Optional ACT/SAT high scores (ACT 29–32 or SAT 1330–1440) improved your chances.

Out of 1,000 applicants, about one in four got a spot. REALLY competitive. Average GPA: 3.8+ to even be considered. 3.8 is around 90% - mind you it was in the top 5% of schools for the program, so it was worth the effort, but frigging hard to get into and you really wanted marks in the mid 90's minimum to be seriously considered. 50% - frigging heck - kiss your ass goodbye, you might get into a community college. If you were lucky.

For degrees, usually 70% is a First, 50% is a 2:1 (or a Pass for a Masters), 40% would be a 2:2 and about 33-35% gets you a Third. I recall being predicted I wouldn't pass a course I wasn't qualified for, worked my arse off, and got not only a Pass (32%) but Third class Honours (34%).

Still miffed I didn't get a Distinction in my Masters (I got an average of 69.5%), but a classmate had the problem of being offered an American PhD place if they got an average over 90%. The course director spent months trying to explain that three people had got over 70 in the last 25 years, and only one had got 80%, so even though they were an excellent candidate, it wasn't going to happen.

Yep. That 90% is what you need. Unless you're Asian, when you need about 99% because of the inherent anti-Asian bias because we work our asses off

There's been big changes in UK rating culture since eBay came along. When it started here, you'd give sellers 3 stars if there was no problem, maybe 4 if there was really nice packaging and prompt delivery, and 5 stars if they gave you a free gift. Cue emails demanding to know what was wrong. Followed by Amazon and other websites doing the same thing,.and those buttons in supermarkets and hospitals - if you don't rate the top score, the software says it's a problem. No reward for excellence any more.

Sounds like ratings on Literotica LOL

 

[Cinnyperez]

The benefits of publishing in LW have been pretty heavily discussed here, but to reiterate:

- if you ignore the trolls, the readership is more critically appreciative, engaged and responsive
- you’re more likely to get reflective and discerning comments
- your writing will improve more quickly than if you were posting to an unresponsive audience.

This is what brought me back to LW.

I published my first story there without having any idea that it was inhabited by so many sub-groups. I was horrified by the comments and votes I received. I'd never had a story spend so long below 3. But more than that, I'd never experienced such venom in response to my writing. The public comments and the emailed ones were awful. I immediately vowed to never write there again.

But then I came to the forums and did some reading about the category. Over time, I decided to give it another shot. I had a new story idea in mind but heavily modified it in the hopes of it being better received. It scored even lower than the first one. Once again, I vowed that I was done.

But after more reflection, I came to a realization: I'd be back again. The truth was that I was now addicted. I loved the amount of views my writing received. I craved the reader responses. Nothing I'd written before seemed to get such a visceral reaction. It made me feel like a real author to be able to touch such a huge number of readers with the written word and spin up such powerful emotions. A weird part of me actually looked forward to the hate mail in my inbox. And the bonus was that it helped improve my writing.

Once you wade through the muck, you get some terrific critical feedback. Compared to other categories, people seem more willing to tell you the truth about what they like and don't like.

And so, I wrote another LW story. This time, I didn't concern myself with the trolls and factions and decided to write the kind of story I wanted and leaned into the infidelity. No surprise, the votes and comments were brutal. BUT, within the filth, I received even more thoughtful feedback.

Now I'm so hooked on LW that I'm losing sight of my original reasons for writing here. I have more LW story ideas "in development" than I have time to write.

 

[Actingup]

This is what brought me back to LW.

I published my first story there without having any idea that it was inhabited by so many sub-groups. I was horrified by the comments and votes I received. I'd never had a story spend so long below 3. But more than that, I'd never experienced such venom in response to my writing. The public comments and the emailed ones were awful. I immediately vowed to never write there again.

But then I came to the forums and did some reading about the category. Over time, I decided to give it another shot. I had a new story idea in mind but heavily modified it in the hopes of it being better received. It scored even lower than the first one. Once again, I vowed that I was done.

But after more reflection, I came to a realization: I'd be back again. The truth was that I was now addicted. I loved the amount of views my writing received. I craved the reader responses. Nothing I'd written before seemed to get such a visceral reaction. It made me feel like a real author to be able to touch such a huge number of readers with the written word and spin up such powerful emotions. A weird part of me actually looked forward to the hate mail in my inbox. And the bonus was that it helped improve my writing.

Once you wade through the muck, you get some terrific critical feedback. Compared to other categories, people seem more willing to tell you the truth about what they like and don't like.

And so, I wrote another LW story. This time, I didn't concern myself with the trolls and factions and decided to write the kind of story I wanted and leaned into the infidelity. No surprise, the votes and comments were brutal. BUT, within the filth, I received even more thoughtful feedback.

Now I'm so hooked on LW that I'm losing sight of my original reasons for writing here. I have more LW story ideas "in development" than I have time to write.

That's so Literotica - addicted to wading through the muck!! Best of luck. Please feel free to link to your stories in your sig so that we can enjoy the journey with you.

 

[iwatchus]

I have to say, although I got many more comments on my LW story, they were not particularly useful comments. About half of the comments were praising the story, which felt good, but I didn't learn much from them. Some were just non-useful criticisms. A major chunk were two major plot issues, both of which I had thought about and decided to leave. I probably learned to be a little more careful but on the whole, learned minimally from those comments.

Per view, I get about as many comments on romance and LS as I did from LW. But I get much better and more thoughtful criticism, by far, on either of those. If I was trying to use the comments to get better at writing, I would absolutely go towards either of those categories.I am tending towards there now, button for that reason; I like writing them more.

I will say, I think my experience with LW comments is as bad as many. I get a higher percentage of nasty and mysoginstic comments from E&V than I have from LW. It's just a MUCH smaller denominator there.