Tallulah needs YOU.

[Tallulah82]

@Tallulah82
As a wise old 22 year old who is not married, my thoughts based on my experience.
My friends and I used to swap boyfriends frequently with no problem. It was fun
BUT there is a big difference between open interchange and secret sex. If you are going to open your marriage please make sure the rule is, OPEN.
ie no secrets , no affairs, honesty and communication is everything.

Thank you

The no secrets is something that my husband is strongly pushing, which I understand.

We're having a slight disagreement on what is classed as a secret, and what is private, though.

I want my time with someone else to be private - so no returning home and being obliged to tell him details of what I've been up to.
He wants details. Not all.. but some.
I actually don't. Not because of jealousy, but because I don't care? His private life is his own, and I'd be more willing to just support him on if it didn't go well, or if he wanted to make her a regular partner. But not the details.

I'm also aware that some partners might not want to be talked about, and so that has to be considered.

Regarding meeting others. sex or not, etc etc we're in agreement that it's fully transparent.

But the details are a current sticking point.

 

[Tallulah82]

How good are you both at compartmentalizing emotions?
Are you both 100% secure in the framework of your marriage?
Are either of you jealous by nature?

I am very good, probably too good at times, at compartmentalising emotions. He isn’t as good, but if we can keep working on the secure framework then that should become easier?

From our discussions to date, yes, we’re 100% secure. We have addressed the possibility that this is a deeply hidden desire to be free and ultimately want separation, that instead of being honest, we’re using this as an excuse. We’ll probably circle back to this as we keep exploring. I believe him when he says no, it isn’t. We both love the life we have, despite its challenges.

I think jealousy is currently my biggest concern and in my humble opinion, jealousy stems from insecurity. When he first put this on the table, I referred to the movie Indecent Proposal. I do fear that he *thinks* he wants this and can convince himself that he’s fine with my having sex with others that he isn’t part of, only to freak out and shut it down. And then worse – turn it against me. We’ve also discussed this. I have to trust him that he believes this isn’t the case, and we need to decide what to do if either of us do decide we’ve changed our minds. This part is pretty big: when you open Pandora’s Box, how do you close it again?

To protect our framework, we need to keep bringing us back into the home and be grounded and present. And whilst we’re mostly talking about rules for physical activity, there’s a lot to be said for online and home-based stuff like phone conversations and sex. We’ve currently agreed:

• We have a well established date night that's been running for a couple of years now. Date night is OUR night. From the moment it begins (around 6pm), to the following morning. Regardless of what we do, or what time we finish, we will not engage with others. (This is stop the potential of either of us claiming we’re too tired, then giving that time to someone else instead).
• No sexual interactions with anyone else when we’re on vacation as a family. From cybering, to meeting. We will be present for the whole time, day and night.

We’re also discussing some other times in the home but haven’t finalised. However, there is also the agreement that home is ALWAYS priority. So, regardless of what we’re engaged in, if we’re needed in the house, we stop. This is more for helping him, to be honest. Again, it comes back to the compartmentalising. Lit has taught me a lot about how to manage my time and control that *argh!* inside when you’re having a great time, but real life demands your attention instead.

Jealous by nature... I need to come back to this when I've worded it best.

 

[Dribble]

Ok...I lied. I said I wouldn't participate in any threads other than remembering Sassy.

For every success there are a hundred failures. You only hear of the success. I wouldn't do it in my life. And if I wouldn't do it...why would I suggest another to do it?

Human behavior is very predictable. It really is. If you are justifying something...anything...who are you really trying to convince?

Table it for a year. Or go the threesome route. But to open up a long-term marriage? Too many unknowns.

 

[Tallulah82]

I have never opened my marriage. I can only imagine what that would be like (likely a quick termination of my vitals if I understand MrsT correctly).

But if the occasion did occur, I had an idea where wife and I would want to put together some sort of guideline/contract to help keep our emotions centered. Also as a means to maintain the marriage with a new set of guidelines. Clearly the intent is to stay married, right? In any case, its a large discussion.

You're a smart woman and I expect Mr. Tal is a smart man. As you know, there is a fairly wide variety of how people open marriages including kink, cucks, equals, multiple partners, etc. Be prepared to spend some time discussing it. Takes lots of notes, and take care of each other.

Good luck my friend.

We are absolutely creating a form of contract. But I haven't yet started a spreadsheet. I'm slacking, obviously.

Husband isn't as clever as me, naturally, but he's a good egg.

Thank you. I may turn to you to read over the final contract draft for mistakes, K?

 

[Tallulah82]

Ok...I lied. I said I wouldn't participate in any threads other than remembering Sassy.

For every success there are a hundred failures. You only hear of the success. I wouldn't do it in my life. And if I wouldn't do it...why would I suggest another to do it?

Human behavior is very predictable. It really is. If you are justifying something...anything...who are you really trying to convince?

Table it for a year. Or go the threesome route. But to open up a long-term marriage? Too many unknowns.

Thank you for your opinion.

I agree that there's many unknowns. I agree that there's risk.

I disagree that you only hear of the successes. I disagree on the concept that you wouldn't promote an activity or action just because you yourself wouldn't do. But you do you.

I have mentioned in a post today that the threesome isn't possible. Exploring together isn't possible. And I don't think I'm trying to convince anyone, including myself. I am working my way through my thoughts by reflecting on what people say.

I don't understand why I would want to table something for a year when we both show interest. I don't understand why I would let risk and nerves stop me from doing something I'd want to do.

Nothing in life is guaranteed. Nothing. So, to live a life on the safe side of the street...literally just because it's safe... no, thanks.

We know exactly what we're risking.

And believe me, even if this crashes and burns, you'll never find me sitting here crying about the decisions *I* made. I'll pick myself up, dust myself off, and start again. And I'll be grateful that I had the guts to at least try.

 

[Tallulah82]

Are either of you jealous by nature?

As I've mentioned previously, I think most jealousy is borne from insecurity.

As we've been talking, there has been zero feelings of jealousy up to now. There's been envy in the past, but as the great team we are, when that's happened we've made life work for both of us, with equal opportunities to pursue our own interests.
I think we'd be naïve to say there'd be no jealousy, ever. But it's how we identify it, communicate it, and resolve it, that's important, surely?

And by keeping our Primary relationship as the focus, and keeping our home and family life separate from our sexual adventures, this should also help.
Developing feelings for others is also a risk, obviously, to bring jealousy into it. We're talking about this, and how we'll handle it.

I feel like I'm sounding really naïve, but ultimately, as mentioned earlier, I won't shy away just because we can't guarantee anything. Small steps, sure. But we won't *know* until we try.

 

[deft]

Ok...I lied. I said I wouldn't participate in any threads other than remembering Sassy.

For every success there are a hundred failures. You only hear of the success. I wouldn't do it in my life. And if I wouldn't do it...why would I suggest another to do it?

Human behavior is very predictable. It really is. If you are justifying something...anything...who are you really trying to convince?

Table it for a year. Or go the threesome route. But to open up a long-term marriage? Too many unknowns.

This comes across as astonishingly judgy for a site like Lit. I'm sure the intentions are good... but... this ain't for me.

 

[Mrtenant]

We are absolutely creating a form of contract. But I haven't yet started a spreadsheet. I'm slacking, obviously.

Husband isn't as clever as me, naturally, but he's a good egg.

Thank you. I may turn to you to read over the final contract draft for mistakes, K?

Yea, for sure.

It just occured to me, you could possibly have hubs as your wingman and you are his wingman?

 

[Tallulah82]

This comes across as astonishingly judgy for a site like Lit. I'm sure the intentions are good... but... this ain't for me.

You think Lit isn't judgy?

You think intentions on Lit are good?

Babe. smh

 

[Tallulah82]

Yea, for sure.

It just occured to me, you could possibly have hubs as your wingman and you are his wingman?

I shall refer you back to the fact that we're not going to be 'out' together.

Plus, he'd probably be too horny at this idea and we'd not even manage to leave the house to wing-each other.

 

[Mrtenant]

I shall refer you back to the fact that we're not going to be 'out' together.

Plus, he'd probably be too horny at this idea and we'd not even manage to leave the house to wing-each other.

Yea, I just read that in one of your posts.

Your adventures are what you make of them, certainly. Going off the tour (so to speak) is a big deal in and of itself in the typical monogamous relationship. Only you guys know what details will work for you.

 

[SlyderInside]

There are definitely resources out there that can help y’all with discussions, including a ton of books. The one that comes to mind would be “The Ethical Slut” that goes over a wide variety of non-monogamous relationships, but you may find a different book that y’all could read together and discuss.

And not that I want you to be away from here on Lit, but exploring additional online groups like FetLife may help you connect with others who are in the lifestyle. The most helpful part of that forum was being able to find in-person events in my area and meet people that way if you want to talk face-to-face with folks who have experience.

 

[Tallulah82]

Yea, I just read that in one of your posts.

Your adventures are what you make of them, certainly. Going off the tour (so to speak) is a big deal in and of itself in the typical monogamous relationship. Only you guys know what details will work for you.

Oh, absolutely. I wasn't planning on this thread being a "do this and do that" suggestion thing, but more of a "have you thought about how you're going to keep safe when you're out having fun?" thinking thing.

 

[Tallulah82]

There are definitely resources out there that can help y’all with discussions, including a ton of books. The one that comes to mind would be “The Ethical Slut” that goes over a wide variety of non-monogamous relationships, but you may find a different book that y’all could read together and discuss.

And not that I want you to be away from here on Lit, but exploring additional online groups like FetLife may help you connect with others who are in the lifestyle. The most helpful part of that forum was being able to find in-person events in my area and meet people that way if you want to talk face-to-face with folks who have experience.

Thank you.

We are exploring other sites away from Lit. But the book recommendation sounds great, thank you. Extremely helpful.

 

[Wolfie605]

I shall refer you back to the fact that we're not going to be 'out' together.

Plus, he'd probably be too horny at this idea and we'd not even manage to leave the house to wing-each other.

Why did when I read this did the thought of your hub wing man for you look that used car salesman meme. Instead of smacking the top of a car he smacks your ass and talks about your best qualities with a big cheesy smile.

 

[Tallulah82]

Why did when I read this did the thought of your hub wing man for you look that used car salesman meme. Instead of smacking the top of a car he smacks your ass and talks about your best qualities with a big cheesy smile.

EXACTLY!

My brain now hurts. I'm going to shut up on this thread for today and trawl for dicks.

 

[Mrtenant]

Why did when I read this did the thought of your hub wing man for you look that used car salesman meme. Instead of smacking the top of a car he smacks your ass and talks about your best qualities with a big cheesy smile.

Having been a wingman for friends, as funny as that sounds , nah. Not how it works.

 

[Wonderer67]

My wife and I have had long discussions about this over the last few years. Ultimately, we decided not to do it. I was up for it (pun intended) but she was not as keen on the idea.

I have read and talked to many couples here who said it has really strengthened their marriage and brought them closer together.

Others have said that it has led to its demise.

I think there’s more in the former party than the latter. But, it seems if you establish strong ground rules together and have good communication that this could certainly work.

we both read the book “the ethical slut” abt 10 yo, which was a good premise, but I found it to be overly long.

Good luck!

 

[LadyLascivious1]

I’m going to try to remember all the things I thought of while reading through your posts

I think it’s important to realize as much as you’re making this decision together, you’ll each be on your own journey and that’s ok. You’ll probably both have feelings you don’t expect (good and bad), but that’s kind of part of the experience in my perspective.

I’d suggest really thinking about what you want out of it and if there are any hard limits you have. Those things will have a huge impact on how you’ll open things up.

I wanted to explore different aspects of my sexuality and just have more experiences. You only live once and having a great partner doesn’t necessarily mean all the experiences have to be with them. In fact, some of those experiences I was curious about, by definition, couldn’t include him.

I joined Lit not too long after opening up our relationship and invited him to join as well. He wasn’t interested and I’m actually really glad it worked out that way. We have a lot of together things and I need space and things that are just mine. He knows my user name though and could find me here if he wanted to. I hope he doesn’t because now I feel selfish about Lit.

In terms of boundaries I wanted to protect the great things we had while at the same time not have so many rules that we couldn’t be open to surprises or evolving. Our “rules” were primary relationship first, not getting involved with mutual friends, no expectation of sharing details, and no unsafe sex.

Personally, I don’t enjoy sex unless I have a connection with someone, so only allowing casual sex or no feelings wouldn’t have worked for me at all. That doesn’t necessarily mean a deep relationship, much less love, but doesn’t preclude it either. I’m also very protective of my time and space, so it’s not like this change upended my world. I did have a couple of people and experiences in mind though, so while it didn’t take me long to act on the opening up of our relationship it’s not something I did with many people. Some were more one off experiences while others became regular occurrences and important people in my life. Some I talked about and shared more with my partner and others were more for me and private.

At the beginning, I was the more enthusiastic one, but he decided he wanted to try it too. We took the time to talk about it a lot before proceeding. Then years later when things in our lives were changing, my husband wanted to stop or pause the open aspect of our relationship. I wasn’t thrilled, mostly because I just love the idea of possibilities and being allowed any adventure, but agreed. I have absolutely zero regrets about any of it which is not surprising as I’m much more likely to regret the things I don’t try. And while there were a few less than fun surprises to work through, on the whole it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

 

[Mo_Bandy]

It all just seems really messy and complicated.

 

[Tallulah82]

My wife and I have had long discussions about this over the last few years. Ultimately, we decided not to do it. I was up for it (pun intended) but she was not as keen on the idea.

I have read and talked to many couples here who said it has really strengthened their marriage and brought them closer together.

Others have said that it has led to its demise.

I think there’s more in the former party than the latter. But, it seems if you establish strong ground rules together and have good communication that this could certainly work.

we both read the book “the ethical slut” abt 10 yo, which was a good premise, but I found it to be overly long.

Good luck!

I think one of my fears was that he was suggesting it because he knew I'd want it, rather than he himself being 100% into the idea for himself. This isn't the case, I know now. I wouldn't accept his offer on this basis.

The rules and communication really do seem to be the key to giving this the most likely chance to work.

Thank you!

 

[Tallulah82]

I’m going to try to remember all the things I thought of while reading through your posts

I think it’s important to realize as much as you’re making this decision together, you’ll each be on your own journey and that’s ok. You’ll probably both have feelings you don’t expect (good and bad), but that’s kind of part of the experience in my perspective.

I’d suggest really thinking about what you want out of it and if there are any hard limits you have. Those things will have a huge impact on how you’ll open things up.

I wanted to explore different aspects of my sexuality and just have more experiences. You only live once and having a great partner doesn’t necessarily mean all the experiences have to be with them. In fact, some of those experiences I was curious about, by definition, couldn’t include him.

I joined Lit not too long after opening up our relationship and invited him to join as well. He wasn’t interested and I’m actually really glad it worked out that way. We have a lot of together things and I need space and things that are just mine. He knows my user name though and could find me here if he wanted to. I hope he doesn’t because now I feel selfish about Lit.

In terms of boundaries I wanted to protect the great things we had while at the same time not have so many rules that we couldn’t be open to surprises or evolving. Our “rules” were primary relationship first, not getting involved with mutual friends, no expectation of sharing details, and no unsafe sex.

Personally, I don’t enjoy sex unless I have a connection with someone, so only allowing casual sex or no feelings wouldn’t have worked for me at all. That doesn’t necessarily mean a deep relationship, much less love, but doesn’t preclude it either. I’m also very protective of my time and space, so it’s not like this change upended my world. I did have a couple of people and experiences in mind though, so while it didn’t take me long to act on the opening up of our relationship it’s not something I did with many people. Some were more one off experiences while others became regular occurrences and important people in my life. Some I talked about and shared more with my partner and others were more for me and private.

At the beginning, I was the more enthusiastic one, but he decided he wanted to try it too. We took the time to talk about it a lot before proceeding. Then years later when things in our lives were changing, my husband wanted to stop or pause the open aspect of our relationship. I wasn’t thrilled, mostly because I just love the idea of possibilities and being allowed any adventure, but agreed. I have absolutely zero regrets about any of it which is not surprising as I’m much more likely to regret the things I don’t try. And while there were a few less than fun surprises to work through, on the whole it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

Oh my god, this - THIS - is so well written and helpful. I'm truly grateful for you sharing this.

I am relating to 99% of this, with only a slight difference that I could enjoy sex without a connection. At least, I assume I can - I certainly did when I was younger. And even if this isn't the case anymore, I'm open to just see how it does work for me.

There's so much here I want to address, but I'll do it in parts so I don't miss anything.

Thank you.

 

[Tallulah82]

It all just seems really messy and complicated.

It is. I can't argue that.

But sneaking around having affairs is messy and complicated. Being online in secret is messy and complicated. Even being online and known can still be or become messy and complicated.

How wonderful would it be to be in a marriage where there's zero interest in anyone or anything else, other than your partner who fulfils your every need, every desire, in the exact way you want it.

Being messy and complicated isn't enough to put me off. If anything, it could bring a clarity to my life that makes me feel more like me. Not the role people put me in.

 

[Tallulah82]

I’d suggest really thinking about what you want out of it and if there are any hard limits you have. Those things will have a huge impact on how you’ll open things up.

In terms of boundaries I wanted to protect the great things we had while at the same time not have so many rules that we couldn’t be open to surprises or evolving. Our “rules” were primary relationship first, not getting involved with mutual friends, no expectation of sharing details, and no unsafe sex.

We've already established the Primary Relationship aspects, though we'll probably realise we've missed x, y, or z.

The mutual friends... that was an interesting discussion, haha!
So, there's one guy, maybe two, who would have been a person of interest to me in this arena but husband is not comfortable with my being with anyone who he knows. Disappointing, but okay. I, on the other hand, have said that I don't care who he goes for with the exception of 3 specific women: two ex-girlfriends (one caused trouble in our relationship in the early days) and one who was very predatory around him but he just never noticed it. Ugh!

What I realise now is that this is uneven... I've said "go for it" and he's said "no". Perhaps it should be a blanket "no mutual friends" rule.

We've established the sharing details aspect, but we need to clarify the no unsafe sex details.

Re: unsafe sex, my first line of thinking was actually physical safety for both of us. No being catfished and attacked, raped, etc etc. It never occurred to him that he could be in physical danger - at all. It's kind of shocked him that I suggested it. So, we're going through all of that side of it too.

 

[mickyp123]

I would have a pre curser on the whole thing that any couple you meet nothing is going to happen for several meetings, then a surprise game of all of you individually and without any collusion write down six fantasy scenarios, put them in a a box and then take them out and read them. That will be a learning curve, its a bit like Lit where often you will find out someones kinks before you find out if they prefer tea to coffee, but the conversation should be fun and will be a good way to sus them out.