What happened after Casablanca?

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

I quite like science fiction. I’m a fan of the various Star Trek shows. Roddenberry was always interested in titillating the audience a little. Sometimes there are scenes or dialogue that leave me wondering where it would have gone next.

Has anyone here ever followed up on those missing scenes by creating their own story?

I’ll give you an example. Most of us know the movie, Casablanca. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched it. The story comes together with a very tidy conclusion: We see the plane take off that has Ilsa and Laszlo on board. There’s a tense scene that ultimately ends with Rick killing the German officer, but Louis protects Rick by deflecting blame. Now both Rick and Louis are in trouble, and the film ends with them both walking into the misty darkness of the airfield with the notion that they will both have to get out of Casablanca.

So what did Rick and Louis do after that final scene? There was no follow up movie.

Well, that wasn’t the end of the story for one author. I came across a book many years ago that featured the same characters that were in the film. It picked up where Casablanca left off. Rick joined the resistance and worked with Ilsa and Laslow in fighting the Nazis. It also filled in some of Ricks background and how he came to be in Casablanca as we saw in the film.

I have to say, one of the reasons I watch the film is to swoon over Ingrid Bergman. She looks so good in that movie. The book allowed me to think of the original characters. I knew what they looked like and how they spoke, and it was interesting to have another story. With every bit of dialogue in the book I could hear the actual voices in my head as they were in the movie.

So, with that idea in mind. I’ve been wondering about similar themes. Star Trek themes.

In the series Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Odo and Kira fall in love. That would be weird relationship with him being a shape shifter. With his slinky manipulative abilities their time in bed could be interesting.

There are plenty of other examples. At one point Riker gets absorbed into a black sludge like entity. We don’t get to see what happened to him while in there. That could be interesting to follow up too.

In the movie ST: Insurrection, Picard meets a woman from the planet that he falls for. She has the ability to slow time. What else do they do when time slows for them, besides admiring the scenery.

And we know that Data is fully functional. We never see him in bed but what would sex with an android be like?

But like the Casablanca sequel I mentioned, there are heaps of series and movies out there that could have gone in other directions. Put it this way, at one point Rick says to Ilsa, "We'll always have Paris." The movie doesn't go into what they did in Paris. Hints only, of course. There could be a story or two there?

Has anyone had a go at doing anything like this?

 

[TheLobster]

I don’t write followups even to my own storylines, where comments ask me to, so I haven’t the faintest clue why I would do it to someone else’s, and completely unprompted at that.

I have my own, new stories to be written and I’d rather do that.

 

[THBGato]

I used to fantasise about those kind of things a lot as a teenager, though more with books than films. I'd imagine extra adventures on Pern, Discworld, Kelewan, Earthsea, etc. Often hooking up the few female characters, obviously (the things Mara got up to with her maids).

Not sure I'd be interested in writing them, though my one effort at Sci Fi here (On a wing and a prayer) was built on an early teenaged fantasy with a bit of Pern thrown in.

 

[AchtungNight]

I wrote an X-Men story a while back that was intended to be additional plot developments after the 2009 movie X-Men: The Last Stand. Specifically Wolverine hooks up with Storm and a de-powered Rogue enjoys a threesome with Iceman and Shadowcat. Meanwhile Magneto has a disturbing encounter with a horseman of Apocalypse. I’ve also done a God of War story with Kratos and Freya getting close after the Ragnarok game.

 

[shelleycat1]

I’ve got as far as writing a short story I would have liked to read, from a novel I liked. I even got as far as editing and polishing it a bit. But I deleted it because it was not postable without breaking the rule that you don’t copy someone else’s work without permission.

That’s the problem with the concept. So they stay in my head.

The book was Restoree by Anne Mccaffrey. Like @THBGato I liked Pern.

 

[OralAllOver]

Would have been anticlimactic to describe what was implied.
Rick perceived "exuberant heterosexuality" by Louis as cover for his cocksucking nature. Arm in arm, under cover of fog, Rick shows how real man penetrates.

Plowing foward, pun intended, they come to SF and puchase Olympic Club. The end of war and beginning of sexual freedom.

My interpretation: Rick exhibits true bravery

https://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=14242156&tags=trans+

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

But I deleted it because it was not postable without breaking the rule that you don’t copy someone else’s work without permission.

But you haven't copied anyone's work. You created the story. Therefore its yours.

 

[shelleycat1]

This debate often happens in AH. Can I continue someone else's story? The consensus is always that it is not right; you need to obtain the original author's permission. I don't see why that is any different for a published author. I don't really see that fanfic is right.

My first couple of stories were based on a universe that someone else had thought up. I got permission.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

It's perfectly legal, of course, to continue Around the World in Eighty Days or Carmen. They're in the public domain.

--Annie

 

[MelissaBaby]

But like the Casablanca sequel I mentioned, there are heaps of series and movies out there that could have gone in other directions. Put it this way, at one point Rick says to Ilsa, "We'll always have Paris." The movie doesn't go into what they did in Paris. Hints only, of course. There could be a story or two there?

Has anyone had a go at doing anything like this?

That's how story telling worked for most of human history. Someone made up a story around the fire, or recounted the exploits of some king or local bandit or something, and the story was retold and embellished and retrofitted to changing times for generations. It's a natural urge. But once storytelling became commodified, that all changed. Once a story is published, that's the end of it, at least legally. But the urge to want to retell it in a new way remains. I have never written fan fiction, but I get why people do.

The situation is the same in music. Stagger Lee and Frankie and Johnny started out as recounting of actual events, but over the years, their stories took on lots of different permutations. Once people started recording them, they became standardized. Now, the original version of any story telling song is held as canon. No one is going to write a different version of The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, for example.

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

Can I continue someone else's story? The consensus is always that it is not right; you need to obtain the original author's permission

I have to admit the legality of it didn't occur to me. Certainly, there are copyright laws, and it's fair that authors be protected, but my assumption was that if you're not copying anything then there is no issue. A rethink may be in order.

With the Casablanca sequel I mentioned, the author may well have sought permission. There might be a reference in the book, but I've misplaced it. I must check when I find it again. Though, I suspect when published, everyone who had anything to do with the movie would probably have been long dead. Perhaps that doesn't matter.

Though, you guys put an interesting thought in my mind. I had always assumed copyright related to the story. Specifically, if you copy the plot then it is an infringement. I hadn't considered copying the characters and putting them into a different story might also infringe copyright.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I've often wondered if a prequel might be OK. Not building on the existing story, but creating what happened before the author conceived it.

How did Al Bundy meet Peggy Wanker? What did they do in the Dodge that led to Kelly?

How did they buy the house? Why was he working at Gary's to begin with?

 

[shelleycat1]

I have to admit the legality of it didn't occur to me. Certainly, there are copyright laws, and it's fair that authors be protected, but my assumption was that if you're not copying anything then there is no issue. A rethink may be in order.

With the Casablanca sequel I mentioned, the author may well have sought permission. There might be a reference in the book, but I've misplaced it. I must check when I find it again. Though, I suspect when published, everyone who had anything to do with the movie would probably have been long dead. Perhaps that doesn't matter.

Though, you guys put an interesting thought in my mind. I had always assumed copyright related to the story. Specifically, if you copy the plot then it is an infringement. I hadn't considered copying the characters and putting them into a different story might also infringe copyright.

There have been threads about this. Usually an author saying they have written (or even worse, written and have got someone to edit it too) something, and only then tried to contact the author for permission. The consensus, which I agree with, is that unless you get permission you cannot proceed, and also no answer is not permission.

The site conditions I think disallow following up on a story without permission (A thread about this is https://forum.literotica.com/threads/rejection-due-to-derivative-work.1618524/).

Copyright is something else, and it varies country to country. Sometimes things are in the public domain, if they are old, or assigned there. In the case I was thinking of, the book would still be in copyright and the author is dead.

I think parody is also an exception, but I can barely spell parody.

 

[jehoram]

I’ll give you an example. Most of us know the movie, Casablanca. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched it.

If you like that movie, you should get a copy of the DVD or Blu-Ray with Roger Ebert's commentary. He shows you dozens of things you might not have fully appreciated, from plot elements to the choices in set design and lighting and direction. He used to do frame-by-frame seminars with film students and probably knew as much about the film as anybody.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I've sort of taken the other direction with my "Before They Were Stars" series. It is a series of tales about their escapades before they became famous. Maybe I'll do one on Ingrid Bergman. Legend has it that she was quite the naughty girl, before and after she became famous.

 

[AchtungNight]

Pretty much all my stories are parody. Believable parody of stuff in the public domain.

It’s possible Anne McCaffrey is one of those authors who dislikes fanfic. Or maybe she was okay with it, just not on porn sites. Or maybe it doesn’t matter because she’s been dead since 2011. Ive heard conflicting reports. I’ve also never read her work, just heard of it. I suspect this is one of those situations where Laurel has the final word on what sort of fanfic can be published here.

 

[iwatchus]

I've often wondered if a prequel might be OK. Not building on the existing story, but creating what happened before the author conceived it.

For copyright purposes, no. Assuming the material is still under copyright like the example you gave. The copyright applies to the characters as well.

 

[Britva415]

I remember reading in a Playboy magazine in the '80s a reimagined alternate-ending for Casablanca, in which Rick and Ilsa don't part ways and enthusiastically fuck in his office instead.

This was pure fan fiction, it was published in print, and I'm pretty sure they didn't seek permission from the Casablanca copyright holders, nor that it would have been granted if they did seek it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I quite like science fiction. I’m a fan of the various Star Trek shows. Roddenberry was always interested in titillating the audience a little. Sometimes there are scenes or dialogue that leave me wondering where it would have gone next.

Has anyone here ever followed up on those missing scenes by creating their own story?

This is a very common form of fanfic. I've written one short piece in that vein, though it's not published here as it didn't feel like a Literotica kind of story.

In that case, the author of the original work is very positive towards fanfic, especially since it's where she cut her teeth as a writer and her own work is visibly influenced by fanfic tropes. So no qualms there.

In cases where there's no indication that the author would be okay with fanfic...I do think there's a difference between writing fic based on a successful, widely-known original, and fic based on relatively obscure stuff like the average Literotica story. The former seems more defensible to me, especially when it acts as some kind of commentary on the original. But we've argued that to death in previous discussions and I don't want to inspire another "And drink!" moment.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For copyright purposes, no. Assuming the material is still under copyright like the example you gave. The copyright applies to the characters as well.

Copyright on characters is a tricky area: it can be recognised if certain criteria are met, but it's not automatic. Wiki has a good discussion; re. Bogart, interesting to note that Sam Spade was ruled to be not distinctive enough for copyright protection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_protection_for_fictional_characters

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I remember reading in a Playboy magazine in the '80s a reimagined alternate-ending for Casablanca, in which Rick and Ilsa don't part ways and enthusiastically fuck in his office instead.

This was pure fan fiction, it was published in print, and I'm pretty sure they didn't seek permission from the Casablanca copyright holders, nor that it would have been granted if they did seek it.

The "transformative work" standard is weird and whether courts will allow that defense against copyright infringement is hard to predict. Was the Playboy story, for example, a parody? A critical commentary in the form of a story?

--Annie

 

[Wifetheif]

One of the things that definitely happened was Rick controlling the roulette wheel on some very attractive but finacially desperate young woman so that Lois can sweep in and bail her out -- in exchange for sexual favors, of course. If you remember in the movie Lois is chapped that Rick fixed the wheel so that the blonde Lois was extorting earned enough money to pay her passage. Lois was quite firm that the next time he had a woman in that situation, Rick was to make sure she lost all her money OR ELSE! Before Rick and Lois got involved with the resistance or whatever, Rick made sure that Lois was laid by a very hot and very desperate piece of ass! That this WOULD happen is a clear given in the script and there is no way either man would immediately abandon Casablanca or the casino.

 

[YDB95]

I remember reading in a Playboy magazine in the '80s a reimagined alternate-ending for Casablanca, in which Rick and Ilsa don't part ways and enthusiastically fuck in his office instead.

This was pure fan fiction, it was published in print, and I'm pretty sure they didn't seek permission from the Casablanca copyright holders, nor that it would have been granted if they did seek it.

I seem to recall Casablanca itself was the subject of some copyright disputes, which may have muddied the waters as far as others writing stories with the same characters. I don't know if or how it was ever resolved.

 

[Britva415]

And even when they are copyright-protected, parodies and fair-uses might invite litigation, but

The "transformative work" standard is weird and whether courts will allow that defense against copyright infringement is hard to predict. Was the Playboy story, for example, a parody? A critical commentary in the form of a story?

--Annie

I don't think it was either of those, though I was probably 15 when I read it. I feel like I remember it well enough to say today that really all it was was a Penthouse Letter with previously established characters. Not critical commentary, and not really a parody either. Honestly no more layers than an alternate-universe fanfic, just about.

There was no push-back at all. The story was even included in an anthology book a couple of years after the Playboy print.