Breasts. Again.

[Actingup]

I mean, none of us are writing Pride and Prejudice. If you're going to write a comedy of manners, you ought to be writing about social mores, fashion faux pas, hypocrisy and morality and social status. If Pride and Prejudice didn't touch on those things, it'd be a lesser work. Boobs are irrelevant in a way they just aren't in erotica.

I’m not sure that they are so different, particularly when you look at the different licences given to the authors. Jane Austen didn’t have an option to talk about breast size and be published in a respectable novel. But she could talk about figure, and did, as in the example I quote above. In another passage, she describes one of the younger sisters in terms of how developed she was at 15. She doesn’t mention breasts, but the meaning is clear.

And she could talk about eyes:



The reader can then extrapolate to her body, and can construct a picture of a healthy 20 year old woman, slightly built, beautiful, breasts in proportion. I’m sure all the best erotic Austen fan fiction picks up on these cues.

So it could be argued that in building a character, even one that is going to have lots of sweaty sex in front of the reader, you only need to mention body parts if they are different from what the reader would expect based on what you’ve already told them.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I’m not sure that they are so different, particularly when you look at the different licences given to the authors. Jane Austen didn’t have an option to talk about breast size and be published in a respectable novel. But she could talk about figure, and did, as in the example I quote above. In another passage, she describes one of the younger sisters in terms of how developed she was at 15. She doesn’t mention breasts, but the meaning is clear.

The reader can then extrapolate to her body, and can construct a picture of a healthy 20 year old woman, slightly built, beautiful, breasts in proportion. I’m sure all the best erotic Austen fan fiction picks up on these cues.

So it could be argued that in building a character, even one that is going to have lots of sweaty sex in front of the reader, you only need to mention body parts if they are different from what the reader would expect based on what you’ve already told them.

But what if you don't tell them anything? Because that's kind of what I got. I didn't read the whole story -- haven't had time -- but at least on the first two pages of a five-page story I didn't see any mention of figure or the kind of words that'd give you any indication of how the woman in question is shaped. Presumably she's fit, given the activity in question, but that's all we have. It's page 3 (and three times she's played with her breasts, I think) before we get an indication of what she looks like -- 120 pounds, 5'6, pink nipples that get long when they're hard, and she admires "the shape of [her] breasts" as she looks at her reflection. I kinda think if you're including a scene where a person who plays with their breasts all the time tells you her height and weight and the size, color and shape of her nipples, you might as well just include the size of the damn breasts, especially if you're also saying that the first penis she sees is "of a promising size." Again, I'm not trying to be prescriptive and say you must do this, but it's worth at least thinking about.

Edit: Adding to this, as I read page 1 and 2, my thinking was that her breasts are sorta hand-ish sized. They're described as being 'cupped' in her hand. Early on page 4, his hand "swallowed her breast." That, to me, brings to mind a small-to-medium breast. We know she's 5'6, 120 pounds and presumably pretty fit, given her hobby of hiking. Again, to me, that says small-to-medium boob. But a couple paragraphs later, they're "swinging freely," and she has to support them with her arm as she runs. A few sentences later, as she walks, they "shift and swing with every step." That seems larger than hand-sized. Pretty slender and muscular but also with pendulous breasts that swing during normal walking is a pretty specific body type. I understand why the commenter might notice an inconsistency.
End Edit

I take Simon's point about how writers react to criticism, and it's well-stated and true. But another tendency on this forum, I think, is to want to elevate one's writing above porn, above being a stroker. And that seems to lead to the use of some writerly affectations that obscure more than they illuminate, and the bias against just saying what sex organs look like when people are looking at them is one of them. I'd also say that the person who left the comment doesn't seem to have been nasty at all and is a published author on this site.

 

[stickygirl]

I know some writers specify breast size like a winning lottery number, but I've always felt that they're all wonderful and why have tried not to get sidetracked with that and the guy's size in inches. Today I received a comment on a tale I'd done some while back, Number 23. The individual was polite enough, but seems to place a lot of importance on that missing detail:

Should I be reconsidering?

https://www.moriareviews.com/rongulator/wp-content/uploads/Everything-You-Always-Wanted-to-Know-About-Sex-But-Were-Afraid-to-Ask-1972.jpg

It's a shame we can't include images with stories. I'm sure this ^^ would satisfy your reader and save the ink for more useful adjectives.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The only way breast size, i.e. dimension and cup size, is if the speaker has a valid reason for knowing that measurement. A valid reason could be that he looked at one of her bras and read the size She could be telling someone her size. It could be a bra fitter telling the girl what size she should wear. Anything else is the writer writing his or her own personal fantasy. I suppose that's fine, but I think it's pretty amateurish.

I'm not a fan of cup-size descriptions, but it helps if you think of it as an erotica-specific language that's only loosely related to RL bra sizing. IRL, "D cup" means a four-inch difference between bust and band circumference; in erotica, "D cup" means nothing more precise than "a good handful".

 

[YmaOHyd]

I'm not a fan of cup-size descriptions, but it helps if you think of it as an erotica-specific language that's only loosely related to RL bra sizing. IRL, "D cup" means a four-inch difference between bust and band circumference; in erotica, "D cup" means nothing more precise than "a good handful".

Even that's too precise. I think trope-ishly a reader can take D to mean "big" and DD to mean "really big" and any F or G letters as "really big bazongas!". But the rest of the writing has to support that; you shouldn't in my view try to describe your characters with porn tropes when you're writing a story about a broken relationship and two people really trying to make it work and the sex is secondary to the emotional drama. And, when using the A=small D=big language, getting more precise is a bad idea; I think in a certain type of gonzo writing saying "she had insane DD tits" is okay but "she had insane 40DD tits" is wrong.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I know some writers specify breast size like a winning lottery number, but I've always felt that they're all wonderful and why have tried not to get sidetracked with that and the guy's size in inches. Today I received a comment on a tale I'd done some while back, Number 23. The individual was polite enough, but seems to place a lot of importance on that missing detail:

Should I be reconsidering?

Yes. But be compliant to your reader, maliciously, and use cubic centimeters by volume, like they do with implants.

 

[Happyfun1]

https://www.moriareviews.com/rongulator/wp-content/uploads/Everything-You-Always-Wanted-to-Know-About-Sex-But-Were-Afraid-to-Ask-1972.jpg

It's a shame we can't include images with stories. I'm sure this ^^ would satisfy your reader and save the ink for more useful adjectives.

GREAT WOODY ALLEN MOVIE

 

[stickygirl]

I've never once assigned a number to breast size. I've alluded to 'she was long-limbed' or had an athletic figure, but as authors it's our job to conjure images and ideas in the imaginations of our readers not dictate. If they prefer to read underwear catalogues for kicks, then that's fine too. For a reader to need to know every last physical detail sounds like desperation and a struggle to get their orgasm over the line, which is both sad and creepy.

 

[Erozetta]

I guess we could ask when does it work and when does it not.
Here's an example from a story I published recently about a guy with gynecomastia.

In exposition, I use this sentence where I think a specific cup size works. I actually fretted about it for a while and decided to just go with it.
---
He was asking about my breasts, my boobs, the perfect C cup titties sitting nice and proud on my chest.
---

Thought, opinions, suggestions...

The only issue with something like this is a C cup means nothing without the band size. A 32C will hold a much different volume of breast tissue than a 42 C will, but both are still a C cup.

For example, a 34A and a 32B actually hold the same volume of breast tissue, so two women wearing a bra in those two sizes are likely to have very similar sized breasts, where a 34 A and 40 A will hold breasts of a different size, but both are A cups.

So, there really is no "perfect C" because the volume of the cup varies in relation to the band size, not the cup size.

 

[stickygirl]

The only issue with something like this is a C cup means nothing without the band size. A 32C will hold a much different volume of breast tissue than a 42 C will, but both are still a C cup.

For example, a 34A and a 32B actually hold the same volume of breast tissue, so two women wearing that same bra are likely to have very similar sized breasts, where a 34 A and 40 A will hold breasts of a different size, but both are A cups.

So, there really is no "perfect C" because the volume of the cup varies in relation to the band size, not the cup size.

What are you using to measure volume? Every time I've tried to measure cup volume, the water runs through the fabric I suppose I could use custard, but I suspect the staff at Next would object.

 

[Erozetta]

What are you using to measure volume? Every time I've tried to measure cup volume, the water runs through the fabric I suppose I could use custard, but I suspect the staff at Next would object.

In my case? Water balloons filled with pudding.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

The only issue with something like this is a C cup means nothing without the band size. A 32C will hold a much different volume of breast tissue than a 42 C will, but both are still a C cup.

For example, a 34A and a 32B actually hold the same volume of breast tissue, so two women wearing a bra in those two sizes are likely to have very similar sized breasts, where a 34 A and 40 A will hold breasts of a different size, but both are A cups.

So, there really is no "perfect C" because the volume of the cup varies in relation to the band size, not the cup size.

Then you have to add the fact that some sizing systems use the overall circumference of the breasts at their fullest point as the band while some use the under bust measure, so a 34C and a 37C could theoretically both be the same size depending on which measurement you're using. A C cup only refers to the differential of the under bust and the measure at the fullest point being about three inches(Maybe 2, or 4). The sad fact, as any woman that has bought a bra online can attest, it that buying a bra that actually fits is a crap shoot. It's magic, dark and evil, confusing as hell. I mean technically I'm a 40 D, but the bras that fit me the best are 38B, so go figure. Yeah, I'm rambling...

And to your actual point about perfect, I probably should have put a comma in between perfect and C cup; perfect, C cup breasts, because that would be so much more clear. I mean we all know exactly what 'perfect' means when referring the breasts.

EDIT: for those of you who may not see it, this is sarcasm...

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Then there's this...

I especially like the footer note: Few credible studies on average breast size exist. As such, existing data sets such as this are traditionally compiled from multiple smaller-scale studies.

 

[Erozetta]

Then you have to add the fact that some sizing systems use the overall circumference of the breasts at their fullest point as the band while some use the under bust measure, so a 34C and a 37C could theoretically both be the same size depending on which measurement you're using. A C cup only refers to the differential of the under bust and the measure at the fullest point being about three inches(Maybe 2, or 4). The sad fact, as any woman that has bought a bra online can attest, it that buying a bra that actually fits is a crap shoot. It's magic, dark and evil, confusing as hell. I mean technically I'm a 40 D, but the bras that fit me the best are 38B, so go figure. Yeah, I'm rambling...

And to your actual point about perfect, I probably should have put a comma in between perfect and C cup; perfect, C cup breasts, because that would be so much more clear. I mean we all know exactly what 'perfect' means when referring the breasts.

EDIT: for those of you who may not see it, this is sarcasm...

And don't forget about how dye plays into it. A blue or black or red bra will all fit differently than a white one in the same style, make and size.

I hate women's clothing. I literally have about five different bra sizes that all fit because... *Shrug* sizes are an estimate and mean fuckall in women's clothing apparently.

Seriously, the only time you can get away with specific sizes/measurements is if you're writing a story about fitting a woman for clothing and then a tape measure comes out, no sight measurements.

And holy fuck do clothes require a lot of measurements.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

And don't forget about how dye plays into it. A blue or black or red bra will all fit differently than a white one in the same style, make and size.

I hate women's clothing. I literally have about five different bra sizes that all fit because... *Shrug* sizes are an estimate and mean fuckall in women's clothing apparently.

Seriously, the only time you can get away with specific sizes/measurements is if you're writing a story about fitting a woman for clothing and then a tape measure comes out, no sight measurements.

And holy fuck do clothes require a lot of measurements.

So true. I'm somewhere between a 10 and a 14 depending on gods only know what. But all the colors and soft fabrics, and the way heels accent the calves and push the butt out(do you have any idea how hard it is to find cute heels in a size 12?)... Don't get me started on the magic of satin and lace or garters and stockings or the feel of a full skirt swishing around bare legs on a nice spring afternoon or the excitement of a skirt being just maybe an inch too short...

 

[Erozetta]

So true. I'm somewhere between a 10 and a 14 depending on gods only know what. But all the colors and soft fabrics, and the way heels accent the calves and push the butt out(do you have any idea how hard it is to find cute heels in a size 12?)... Don't get me started on the magic of satin and lace or garters and stockings or the feel of a full skirt swishing around bare legs on a nice spring afternoon or the excitement of a skirt being just maybe an inch too short...

They certainly have moments that are wonderful. Sizing is the worst part. I have jeans that are a 10, 12, 14 and 16. They all fit quite well. The 16s are a little long. They are all the same brand, color (black), and cut. The difference? Other than the tag? Fucked if I know, they're all the same general size when stacked on top of each other.

My husband's jeans? 32x34. Every pair with amazing consistency even between different colors. The glares I glare at him when I have to buy me clothes and he says, "Just get your normal size!"

 

[M_K_Babalon]

They certainly have moments that are wonderful. Sizing is the worst part. I have jeans that are a 10, 12, 14 and 16. They all fit quite well. The 16s are a little long. They are all the same brand, color (black), and cut. The difference? Other than the tag? Fucked if I know, they're all the same general size when stacked on top of each other.

My husband's jeans? 32x34. Every pair with amazing consistency even between different colors. The glares I glare at him when I have to buy me clothes and he says, "Just get your normal size!"

I just bought a pair of twill pants, and shorts. The pants are a 40, the shorts are 38, and the shorts fit like a 40, the pants fit like 38.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Being flat chested makes bra shopping easy. ; )

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Being flat chested makes bra shopping easy. ; )

Except when I started this journey about six years ago, I had three sets of forms, depending on the look I wanted. now that the hormones have had a chance, well, I still don't know what bra size to buy.

 

[Erozetta]

I just bought a pair of twill pants, and shorts. The pants are a 40, the shorts are 38, and the shorts fit like a 40, the pants fit like 38.

If different fabrics and/or brands, that happens, and pants and shorts will be made from different patterns which may have some variation. But my husband always gets the exact same brand of jeans in the same cut and color and they always fit him exactly right. When stacked up there are only minor differences in size, not enough to be more than a machine stacked cutting variation and not enough to warrant changing the size up or down. In women's clothes, it seems like you get a larger variation in cut differences, likely due to women's clothing often having some sort of spandex, or lycra, type material in them to allow for a bit of stretch (which I loathe.) Finding all cotton clothes is another issue and one of the reasons I took to making my own clothes for certain things.

 

[kitmarlowe]

I am personally much more interested in the emotional content of a story and of getting a sense for who characters are and why they're turned on by one another. That's what makes erotica erotic for me. I don't particularly like to read very specific details about things like size unless it's absolutely crucial to the story for some reason.

Nothing makes me bounce out a story faster than someone giving an explicit cup size, not least because it tends to just be a sign of shitty writing and I'm very much a snob about the quality of the prose I read.

 

[dirk2024]

No.

But if you're determined to go in that direction, you might try something like "larger than a tea cup and smaller than a bread basket." That's sure to satisfy the most ardent mammophiles.

Mmm..."mammophiles".

Makes me think of a National Geographic special.

"Watch as the pack of mammophiles eyes their prey. A herd of boobies slowly works its way across the plain, jiggling enticingly with their movement..."

 

[redgarters]

To quote Jeff from Coupling...
"Breasts! Isn't it just a lovely word?"

 

[Melody_Lightdraft2]

I know some writers specify breast size like a winning lottery number, but I've always felt that they're all wonderful and why have tried not to get sidetracked with that and the guy's size in inches. Today I received a comment on a tale I'd done some while back, Number 23. The individual was polite enough, but seems to place a lot of importance on that missing detail:

Should I be reconsidering?

Your story, your rules.

 

[UtilityCurve]

I know some writers specify breast size like a winning lottery number, but I've always felt that they're all wonderful and why have tried not to get sidetracked with that and the guy's size in inches. Today I received a comment on a tale I'd done some while back, Number 23. The individual was polite enough, but seems to place a lot of importance on that missing detail:

Should I be reconsidering?

I like reading specifications of a woman's bra size about as much as I enjoy reading specifications of new mobile phones. Spare me, please: All I want to know is whether the time spent with either breasts or a smartphone will be enjoyable for all.

Fact: "She had 36DD's and wore them well" is SO much less sexy than "She actually purred when I gently squeezed them."