Why the Department of Education?

[Politruk]

OK, Donald, you're about to take office -- leave the DOE alone!

 

[ChinoMoreno]

"The Department of Education should be abolished." That seems to be one of those definitional things any Republican or conservative HAS to say.

But nobody ever seems to mention what objectionable things that department is doing.

Why would Trump supporters care if he cuts a program that they don't have advantage of dude?

 

[TastySuckToy]

Typical leftists and democrats actually think parents cannot be trusted to raise and teach their own kids. They love playing nanny state and want control and influence over the next generations.

 

[Politruk]

Typical leftists and democrats actually think parents cannot be trusted to raise and teach their own kids. They love playing nanny state and want control and influence over the next generations.

Homeschooling is shit in most cases.

 

[Rebel5soul]

It used to be part of the Department of Health Education and Welfare (HEW). It was established as a separate cabinet office under Carter. It’s a big bureaucracy. Has it improved education in America?

No. And now one has explained what it really does. Of course we have the boiler plate from the Dept. itself as to what it does, but we have NO metrics that demonstrate any beneficial effect. And we actually have metrics that demonstrate just the opposite. It is, in effect, a patronage payoff machine. That is right there in their first line of what they do.

Get rid of the Dept. and block grant the monies to the states based on children registered in the school systems, public and private. That would be the right thing to do.................if it's all about the children and not the politics.

 

[Politruk]

And we actually have metrics that demonstrate just the opposite\

Cite?

 

[colddiesel]

Homeschooling is shit in most cases.

That outburst clearly states the fundamental flaw of your position. You clearly think that you know best, that you and people like you, 'know it alls,' are entitled to tell other people what to do. So what if home schooling is shit. You the interfering busybody wants to interfere with how parents bring up their families. Most parents want the best for their kids and will do their best to get it. There are too many experts and know it alls telling regular people what to do with their lives

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Typical leftists and democrats actually think parents cannot be trusted to raise and teach their own kids. They love playing nanny state and want control and influence over the next generations.

 

[UltraChad]

View attachment 2472531

He was talking about people who went to public baby sitting centers.

 

[Politruk]

That outburst clearly states the fundamental flaw of your position. You clearly think that you know best, that you and people like you, 'know it alls,' are entitled to tell other people what to do. So what if home schooling is shit. You the interfering busybody wants to interfere with how parents bring up their families. Most parents want the best for their kids and will do their best to get it. There are too many experts and know it alls telling regular people what to do with their lives

Education of children is everybody's business, not just their own parents'.

 

[colddiesel]

Education of children is everybody's business, not just their own parents'.

No it is not. We do far more good for children if we afford their parents the opportunity and capacity to do what they perceive as best for their own families. Let and encourage parents to take responsibility and tell the interfering "Know it alls' like you to mind their own business. People thrive on responsibility, your view is to deprive them of it, because you, the "know it all mob" think you know best - and you do not.

But take comfort in the fact that your view would be thoroughly approved by Nadehzda Krupskaya.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

No it is not. We do far more good for children if we afford their parents the opportunity and capacity to do what they perceive as best for their own families. Let and encourage parents to take responsibility and tell the interfering "Know it alls' like you to mind their own business. People thrive on responsibility, your view is to deprive them of it, because you, the "know it all mob" think you know best - and you do not.

But take comfort in the fact that your view would be thoroughly approved by Nadehzda Krupskaya.

Please explain how this would deprive parents the opportunity to do what is best for their children?

 

[Politruk]

No it is not.

That is a damned stinking lie. An educated populace is a public good, and we all have to live with the consequences of ignorance.

 

[RobDownSouth]

No it is not. We do far more good for children if we afford their parents the opportunity and capacity to do what they perceive as best for their own families. Let and encourage parents to take responsibility and tell the interfering "Know it alls' like you to mind their own business.

I vehemently disagree with this take here.

Are you advocating for the removal of universal benchmarks in education?

Have you ever had any meaningful interaction with a homeskooled child?

 

[Politruk]

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[TD]Misconceptions[/TD]
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[TD]https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/7/7a/misconceptions.png
Title text: "Grandpa, what was it like in the Before time?" "It was hell. People went around saying glass was a slow-flowing liquid. You folks these days don't know how good you have it."[/TD]
[/TR]

 

[UltraChad]

Education of children is everybody's business, not just their own parents'.

No it's not and yes it is. You commie fuckwits just don't seem to understand that other peoples kids ARE NOT YOURS, THEY ARE NOT COMMUNITY PROPERTY you fucking psychopaths.

The idea that they are is again in part why you guys go smoked so fuckin' bad in 2024.

Please explain how this would deprive parents the opportunity to do what is best for their children?

State authority doing things instead is literally that.

Same way state authority telling you what you can and can't do with your property and then charging you rent on it makes that property NOT yours.

 

[colddiesel]

I vehemently disagree with this take here.

Are you advocating for the removal of universal benchmarks in education?

Have you ever had any meaningful interaction with a homeskooled child?

Please explain how this would deprive parents the opportunity to do what is best for their children?

That is a damned stinking lie. An educated populace is a public good, and we all have to live with the consequences of ignorance.

My disagreement is substantially with Politruk because he invariably, as on this issue assumes that his own opinion is self evident without making the slightest effort to argue or justify his assumptions . My view is that when considering education you have to listen to all shades of opinion and cannot take notice only of those folk echoing your own point of view. You have to engage and involve everyone Parents, Teachers Children and standards/examination systems. Let's compare a few: The French system is highly centralized and very elitist, the Russian system is not dissimilar, one created by a right wing government the other by communists. Singapore is often held as the worlds best, elitist, exam driven, competitive and extraordinarily successful. Finland is generally Europes best not dissimilar but a bit more flexible.

Politruk might make more headway/sense if he dropped his average of 60+ posts a day and explained a tad more.

Now RDS. No I am not advocating for removal of benchmarks

 

[RobDownSouth]

Now RDS. No I am not advocating for removal of benchmarks

Hokay. Glad you clarified that.

I firmly believe that homeskooling is a primary cause of the American decline. For every 17 year old medical student genius it creates, there are several dozen white trash Dodge Ram driving knuckleheads created who cannot differentiate between fact and opinion.

"Bro Country" music is the soundtrack of their lives, and they "couldn't spell 'CAT' even if you spotted them a "C" and an "A" ' (the famous summary of Pittsburgh Steelers QB Terry Bradshaw's intelligence).

 

[colddiesel]

Hokay. Glad you clarified that.

I firmly believe that homeskooling is a primary cause of the American decline. For every 17 year old medical student genius it creates, there are several dozen white trash Dodge Ram driving knuckleheads created who cannot differentiate between fact and opinion.

"Bro Country" music is the soundtrack of their lives, and they "couldn't spell 'CAT' even if you spotted them a "C" and an "A" ' (the famous summary of Pittsburgh Steelers QB Terry Bradshaw's intelligence).

Hmm, My post got cut off mid sentence but you got the gist of it anyway.

 

[laurathorne]

Honestly, I think this debate really boils down to finding the right balance between parental control and the need for universal standards. Sure, homeschooling works great for some families, but it can also lead to inconsistent outcomes. At the same time, I get why people see the Department of Education as bureaucratic and inefficient. But we can’t ignore that having national benchmarks helps ensure every kid, no matter where they live, has access to a decent education. I came across this resource recently—https://edubirdie.com/docs/california-state-university-northridge/acct-351-intermediate-financial-accoun/33353-answers-reading-21-free-cash-flow-valuation—and it made me think about how we need both structure and flexibility in systems like these. At the end of the day, it’s about what’s best for the kids, not just politics

 

[ishtat]

Honestly, I think this debate really boils down to finding the right balance between parental control and the need for universal standards. Sure, homeschooling works great for some families, but it can also lead to inconsistent outcomes. At the same time, I get why people see the Department of Education as bureaucratic and inefficient. But we can’t ignore that having national benchmarks helps ensure every kid, no matter where they live, has access to a decent education.

Lot of common sense in this. An alternative might be to sub-contract the development of National Standards to three or four Universities. They have the skills, it'd be cheap and give the institutions great Kudos. Any funding to the States does not require an education Department.

Getting the administration of education closer to the 'clients' (Kids, Teachers, Parents) and out of the grasping maw of the Federal patronage machine has a lot to be said for it. I have a fair amount of experience of centralized Departments of education in both UK and OZ. In both instances they started out with the best of intentions and ended up as over-sized bureaucracies weaponized by Politicial interests.

 

[Politruk]

No it's not and yes it is. You commie fuckwits just don't seem to understand that other peoples kids ARE NOT YOURS, THEY ARE NOT COMMUNITY PROPERTY you fucking psychopaths.

That is a damned stinking lie. An educated populace is a public good, and we all have to live with the consequences of ignorance.

 

[Politruk]

Let's compare a few: The French system is highly centralized and very elitist, the Russian system is not dissimilar, one created by a right wing government the other by communists. Singapore is often held as the worlds best, elitist, exam driven, competitive and extraordinarily successful. Finland is generally Europes best not dissimilar but a bit more flexible.

And all of those are generally agreed to produce better results than our system.

 

[Rightguide]

"The Department of Education should be abolished." That seems to be one of those definitional things any Republican or conservative HAS to say.

But nobody ever seems to mention what objectionable things that department is doing.

They mention them all of the time but you aren't listening. It's not in the Constitution and the federal government should have nothing to do with how the states educate their children or inserting themselves between parents and their children's education.

 

[Politruk]

But we can’t ignore that having national benchmarks helps ensure every kid, no matter where they live, has access to a decent education.

A better way to ensure that would be a national requirement of equal funding per pupil.