You sound as if you are fearful....
Fear, and all of its synonyms, are desperate words.
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You sound as if you are fearful....
I'd chalk it up to psychological projection, because the actual fear is fearing the determination that trans is nothing but a mental disorder. And then knee jerk reactions as if the diagnosis of mental disorder/illness must be an 'attack' or form of intolerance rearing its head.Fear, and all of its synonyms, are desperate words.
I'd chalk it up to psychological projection, because the actual fear is fearing the determination that trans is nothing but a mental disorder. And then knee jerk reactions as if the diagnosis of mental disorder/illness must be an 'attack' or form of intolerance rearing its head.
If it can be proven to not be the case that trans is a mental disorder/illness, I think that's great. More knowledge about ourselves and humanity is a good thing. Hence why important questions like how to reliably determine a trans identity need to be answered.
But so far all you get from the other side is insults, name calling, appeals to personal beliefs, appeal to motivation fallacies, etc.
Might want to take a look at the DSM-V and ask the world health organization. They would both disagree with you. It's been classified as a physical "ailment" and has to have medical treatment, not mental treatment.
This poster, amongst others, has already addressed your question about mental disorder
Historically, many medical systems, including those supported by the WHO, have categorized being transgender as a mental health condition. But an evolving scientific understanding of gender and tireless advocacy by transgender activists around the world were crucial in bringing about this development.
The above is from THIS ARTICLE. The bold words are linked to other websites in the article to back up their claims. TIRELESS ADVOCACY and TRANSGENDER ACTIVISTS have links, but not EVOLVED SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING.
Advocacy and Activists.
Below is a paragraph from the SAME ARTICLE
Countries such as Argentina, Malta, Nepal, and Norway have made progress in recent years in improving legal recognition of transgender people and not requiring diagnoses. However, many governments around the world continue to deem transgender people “mentally ill,” and Japan, Spain, and Turkey, among others, still require a mental health diagnosis to legally change one’s name or legal gender marker.
I have no problem in the "live and let live" philosophy, but I won't pretend there is something not wrong with a person who wants to change reality by claiming to be the opposite of their natural sex (and don't pretend you don't know what I mean by "natural sex"). You are not a man or woman simply because that's what you decided you are that day. There is your birth sex, and your preferred sex (for some) but what you prefer is not always what you are.
Yup, I've seen that article and thank you for the CAPS and bolds Yes, our advocacy is tireless - good stuff huh? It's not like the folks at Stonewall gave up when people said gays were mentally ill and going to bring down society. Props to our advocates- they're brilliant.
It was tireless advocates who got women the vote or people like Rosa Parks , the civil rights activist in the 1930s - she was pretty tireless too. Martin Luther King...
The way you've highlighted activism shows you disapprove and you probably think being an activist is evil - like those those advocates and activists examples I've cited? Am I right? I suspect you disapprove of change of any sort. Well, change is going to happen, whether you like it or not. You can fight it, get angry about - hell you could even become an activist yourself, but the chances are the weight of decency, fairness, equality, is going win out in the end.
Yup, I've seen that article and thank you for the CAPS and bolds Yes, our advocacy is tireless - good stuff huh? It's not like the folks at Stonewall gave up when people said gays were mentally ill and going to bring down society. Props to our advocates- they're brilliant.
It was tireless advocates who got women the vote or people like Rosa Parks , the civil rights activist in the 1930s - she was pretty tireless too. Martin Luther King...
The way you've highlighted activism shows you disapprove and you probably think being an activist is evil - like those those advocates and activists examples I've cited? Am I right? I suspect you disapprove of change of any sort. Well, change is going to happen, whether you like it or not. You can fight it, get angry about - hell you could even become an activist yourself, but the chances are the weight of decency, fairness, equality, is going win out in the end.
You're obviously choosing to see why I've bold-faced some lines in the worst possible light, twisting it as much as you can for the sake of your ire.
There are too many trans people and people of the Alphabet Community who suffer from mental illness (body dysphoria, depression, suicidal thoughts, READ HERE and do you own research as well) to expedite the global acceptance of warping reality to fit fantastical desires. You are telling people who need help that they don't.
The only problem I have with this man-to-woman cause and vice versa, is the expectancy that people are to believe that a man is a woman if they feel like a woman, and a woman is a man if they feel like a man. Accept reality for what it is: and live however you like, but don't tell the world to indulge the delusions of people who are not happy with who they are.
And for the sake of the topic, this goes for that as well. You clearly see that I believe a man at birth should not be allowed in the athletic events designated for woman who were born woman at birth. The trans athletes out there right now are not even the best of the best when it comes to male athletes. Imagine what would happen if one of them were?
Oh, Kim, it appears you didn't read me in full.He also missed the bit where it says advocacy AND scientific understanding.
The above is from THIS ARTICLE. The bold words are linked to other websites in the article to back up their claims. TIRELESS ADVOCACY and TRANSGENDER ACTIVISTS have links, but not EVOLVED SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING.
Advocacy and Activists.
Actual research tends to demonstrate that the majority of these negative outcomes are a result of either social attitudes, and some the result of not being able to live as the person you are. I'm not going to bother citing evidence, because I know you won't read it.
(Telling SG to 'do her own research' is pretty laughable - she's clearly way more informed about this area than you or I are.)
Oh, Kim, it appears you didn't read me in full.
To further explain, in the article I quoted, the words TIRELESS ADVOCACY and TRANSGENDER ACTIVISTS had links to other articles backing up those claims, while the words EVOLVED SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING did not. Do you understand now? You pretend to be a smart woman, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
So you're suggesting that this means the scientific understanding doesn't exist?
You won't bother citing evidence because it will be an opinion piece easily refuted when the numbers of "normal" people who were bullied suicide rates to trans people are compared side by side.
These snide, after comments are laughable.
Like, actually read them?
We get the point - you think being trans is a mental illness.
Not ire. If I had ire you'd know - I swear like a sailor tired maybe...You're obviously choosing to see why I've bold-faced some lines in the worst possible light, twisting it as much as you can for the sake of your ire.
The problem is you're citing articles that say transgender people suffer mental illness, not that being transgender is a mental illness, which as I've cited is not accepted by WHO or DSM-V. You put the cart before the horse here: some of the mental problems stem from being treated like pariahs, so depression is one of those results categorised as a mental illness. I agree with the article - there are a number of co-morbid symptoms that go with being transgender, but telling someone their self-perception is due to their mental illness is neither accurate nor helpful.There are too many trans people and people of the Alphabet Community who suffer from mental illness (body dysphoria, depression, suicidal thoughts, READ HERE and do you own research as well) to expedite the global acceptance of warping reality to fit fantastical desires. You are telling people who need help that they don't.
but if that were the only problem you have: you've demonstrated it isn't.The only problem I have with this man-to-woman cause and vice versa
Here you go again - you're being flippant. Being accepted for any kind of medical treatment is a long-winded process and rightly so, hormones are not handed out by medical professionals on a whim. The idea that someone can whimsically decide to be a woman one morning is not taken seriously by doctors.is the expectancy that people are to believe that a man is a woman if they feel like a woman, and a woman is a man if they feel like a man.
Please don't use derogatory words "delusional" when it's inappropriate and rude. Reality isn't black and white - reality is complicated and no matter how hard you wish it, with 6 billion people on the planet, there is going to be diversities that don't fit the norm: statistically it doesn't stack up and hey - the reality confirms it. I see this in the world of Physics all the time: Nature constantly seeks to diversify, if it didn't, we'd still be a planet covered in algae and nothing else.Accept reality for what it is: and live however you like, but don't tell the world to indulge the delusions of people who are not happy with who they are.
We have an English expression 'It's the taking part that counts, not the winning'. It's a phrase echoed by the founder of the Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, who said "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part; the essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well."And for the sake of the topic, this goes for that as well. You clearly see that I believe a man at birth should not be allowed in the athletic events designated for woman who were born woman at birth. The trans athletes out there right now are not even the best of the best when it comes to male athletes. Imagine what would happen if one of them were?
The problem is you're citing articles that say transgender people suffer mental illness, not that being transgender is a mental illness, which as I've cited is not accepted by WHO or DSM-V. ....
but if that were the only problem you have: you've demonstrated it isn't.
Here you go again - you're being flippant. Being accepted for any kind of medical treatment is a long-winded process and rightly so, hormones are not handed out by medical professionals on a whim. The idea that someone can whimsically decide to be a woman one morning is not taken seriously by doctors.
Please don't use derogatory words "delusional" when it's inappropriate and rude.
Nature constantly seeks to diversify, if it didn't, we'd still be a planet covered in algae and nothing else.
We have an English expression 'It's the taking part that counts, not the winning'. It's a phrase echoed by the founder of the Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, who said "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part; the essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well."
You know being transgender isn't a new thing - it's been around, and recorded, since before the pyramids were built. In the past, people weren't so judgemental as they are today - there were bigger issues, and there still are.
Albert Cashier who fought in the US civil war
US Navy Seal Kristin Beck
Roberta Cowell who flew Spitfire's during WW2
All of these people and there are many many more, made valuable and significant contributions in war and peace. I doubt any of them rolled over in bed one morning and had a lightbulb moment of hey - I'll be the other gender.
If it's only wordplay, then fine, but if it is believed, as the many in Alphabet Community believe, it is delusional.
The "Alphabet Community" swipe ^^^ further indicates that this guy has an angry male agenda extending beyond the trivialization of trans people. He has come to the GLBT Chatter forum to impress his fellow bullies with his package of talking points and insults.
Another legend in his own mind. It looks like this forum is also being invaded by the trolls.
The only troll in here is you, and your persistence in calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a troll. You've taken on the role of the bullied for no reason other than because you want to.
Dear Kola
I think we're about done with this and we can agree to disagree. Have a nice day
Despite your self-image as the smartest man in the world, you nor any other anonymous poster are the final word on genetics, epigenetics, and biological variability. You may think that this issue can be categorized into a neat little binary format, but that does not make it so.
This was essentially a thread informing us about another aspect of ongoing basic science research into biological variability. You and several others hijacked this discussion to advance your belief that there are real men and real women, and that deviation from these categories is a capricious decision made by mentally ill or delusional people.
That's a tidy and simplistic theory from anonymous posters, but the opening post of this thread involves publicly identified researchers who are considering the notion that things may not be that tidy and simple.
Actual research tends to demonstrate that the majority of these negative outcomes are a result of either social attitudes, and some the result of not being able to live as the person you are. I'm not going to bother citing evidence, because I know you won't read it.
(Telling SG to 'do her own research' is pretty laughable - she's clearly way more informed about this area than you or I are.)
Interesting that your rebuttal to the persons post, and to the person themselves is to come out and say that resistance to something like transgender athletes being allowed to participate as any gender they want is a result of that
persons "latent homosexuality". That is expressed in your "result of not being able to live as the person you are" poke at the writer.
*edit*
Interesting that your rebuttal to the persons post, and to the person themselves is to come out and say that resistance to something like transgender athletes being allowed to participate as any gender they want is a result of that
persons "latent homosexuality". That is expressed in your "result of not being able to live as the person you are" poke at the writer.
SO sad you cannot see the stupidity of something. There is no actual reason to allow it. The males who wanna be girls who participate in female sports, have far more physical ability then the women do. muscle mass and strength levels.
Just brings back to mind the soviet unions use of males in female Olympic events of the cold war. "judge this fine female soviet athlete has a 3 day beard growth, testicles"