Set out to write a quick and dirty first-swinging-experience story, now I'm sad

[Booleanean]

The last couple of months I've been poking away at a story. It all started with the idea of two couples hiking out into the wilderness to camp together, and things slowly escalating fulfilling the long held fantasy of the main POV character and her partner to do a full swap.

I flesh out the characters a little. Straight female, main POV and her heteroflexible male partner, together since college, idly interested in polyamory or other forms of consensual non-monogamy. Bi couple (male and female), together for a year. They're both bi, but while she's out to everyone, he's only out to her. Give them all some hobbies I vaguely know something about, plan to throw some pop culture references in there cause I'm a millennial and that's humor. Create the setting, campsite, foraging spot, pebble beach, deep spring water pool past some berry bushes, height of summer.

I start out simple, some off screen sex between nonPOV characters, some on screen between main POV and partner, a quick game of Truth or Dare that turns into two steamy same sex massages.

Okay, I don't mind my characters deciding they're different than I thought they were originally. I adjust the scene a little to sprinkle in some stuff about the protag getting worked up, feeling a strong emotional bond to her female friend that's deepened as the massage gets to more intimate parts of her body, questioning her sexuality. Plan a future scene where the two women talk about their feelings, how straight doesn't want to hurt bi or take advantage, how bi doesn't want straight to feel pressured. They talk about demisexuality and how one person can have different attraction types to same and different gender people.

This was supposed to be a quick stroke story, something for Summer Lovin' with the heat being a character in the story for lots of sweaty sex, skimpy and absent clothing, and everyone being on vacation to boot. Maybe a couple chapters of buildup to a big full swap scene where everyone stuck to their own orientations, with maybe some light play between the guys cause there's too many stories about couples swapping and the girls playing together. Then a quick half-chapter epilogue where the orgies continue the rest of the trip, and a month or two later where they're all playing Strip Catan together back home or whatever. Fade to black, print it, ship it, start the next idea.

Sixty thousand words later, and one of the characters is sobbing in the other's arms because they can't stand the idea of the trip ending and having to be apart from their new love, the other two are carefully exploring their expanded friendship and in denial about the fact that they're truly, madly, deeply in love. I'm openly weeping while I'm writing these scenes, having flashbacks to saying goodbye to long distance partners in airports, spending nights alone. The epilogue is happy for them, but with every sentence I write, I'm more and more depressed.

I'm editing it now, and I'm going to miss the ever loving fuck out of these characters. There's not much more to tell about them, so I doubt I can go back. I wrote 35k words in the last week to finish it off when I finally felt like I knew the characters really well. The story clocks in at 85k words after the first edit cut 20k words, but it's probably only going to grow a bit again as I sprinkle in some foreshadowing in earlier chapters, clarify some situations and descriptions, and write the one sex scene I had to skip because it's set after the sad part (the characters get three time-skip paragraphs to recover), and I just couldn't get into the right mindset. I might even have to cut it, cause if I can't make the switch, will my reader be able to?

How is everyone else's experience with writing? Do your characters lead a life of their own and rewrite your story for you? Do you often get so attached to your characters, you can actively feel their emotions, or you wish they were real? Does finishing a story leave you raw and depressed?

 

[Tomh1966]

I've had LOTS of stories evolve in completely new directions. I have dozens of 5% to 40% written stories where I get a scene in my head then I try to push the story toward completion and it goes in an entirely new direction.

I get a lot of ideas. Some of my stories are simply at the stage of "Person does this at this place and this happens" and a sample dialog that happens as an idea in my head.

I recently wrote one of my better-reviewed (but not read) stories. This one went well and I started and finished it in two weeks which is a race for me. Susan, the mother of the main protagonist female started off every bit as awful a human as Earl her husband. She evolved and she went from background to much more prominent. Is she goodness and light? No, but she evolved into this woman who is trying to help her daughter and who is in a terrible situation herself. ALL those things she did for her daughter were not in the first draft.

There is a sequel (but not another chapter. It will not be necessary to read the sequel as I like where I ended the story) In the works and I may even take Susan and give her a story of her own after that sequel. Funny. She started off as a nasty bitch I did not like to this complex woman with a heart and a hard and dark past.

PS break that into chapters or your readership will drop because most people will see 60K words and go... no thanks. Just say "This is five 12K chapters and they are done. I will be uploading them every other day as each previous chapter is approved." That way people can take the story in bite size pieces and also know this is not an orphan story where the promised chapter 2 never came...

 

[AchtungNight]

Do your characters get you obsessed with them and leave you feeling raw and depressed when their lives go wrong? If you’re a good writer and an empathetic person, they absolutely should.

 

[Altissimus]

The story clocks in at 85k words after the first edit cut 20k words

Wow, this is impressive. When I edit my stories they feel like they grow by 20k words.

How is everyone else's experience with writing? Do your characters lead a life of their own and rewrite your story for you? Do you often get so attached to your characters, you can actively feel their emotions, or you wish they were real? Does finishing a story leave you raw and depressed?

This resonates with me quite hard for one series in particular that I wrote. Not only did I grow more attached to the characters than usual, but I allowed them to run away with the story. As a consequence it deviated so much from the original premise that the latter parts didn't really fit anymore. At some point I'll have to go back and re-write part 1, because parts 2, 3, and 4 were awesome. The ending to the series made me quite emotional. I learnt from it though - important to keep perspective on your over-arching plan, even if that plan is only nine words scrawled on the back of a napkin.

 

[elizaloo]

God yes.

I have a long running series and I've been puttering with a new chapter...but the last one took a turn I was NOT expecting and I can't for the life of me figure out if I want my MC to continue on that path (readers have expressed that they want to see it get dark and dirty for her) but she's a MOM ffs and I personally don't want to write her as 'that woman'...BUT, likely I will...because I longed to be THAT mom.

I've tabled the draft while I ponder how I want it to play out to MY satisfaction! LOL

And I've read plenty of stories here that I WISH would continue because I've gotten deeply involved with the MCs...and then I look at the publish date and realize it was 20 years ago and I'll never know if they had an HEA or not.

 

[AlinaX]

How is everyone else's experience with writing? Do your characters lead a life of their own and rewrite your story for you? Do you often get so attached to your characters, you can actively feel their emotions, or you wish they were real? Does finishing a story leave you raw and depressed?

When you write at novel length and with such intensity, it can be very hard to let go of the characters after. And you send the story out into the world, and you need it to be read, and for readers to undertand and love the characters too, and any negative reviews that you read will hurt like hell.

 

[Booleanean]

PS break that into chapters or your readership will drop because most people will see 60K words and go... no thanks. Just say "This is five 12K chapters and they are done. I will be uploading them every other day as each previous chapter is approved." That way people can take the story in bite size pieces and also know this is not an orphan story where the promised chapter 2 never came...

Yeah, I intend to. I'm going to do some reading of the forums for some tips on whether I should publish in bulk or space them out. If I go spaced out, I'll have to add some quick recaps and re-explanations to the beginnings of stories. I have it all pretty much done though, other than a couple more editing passes and a final spit shine, so it's very tempting to just dump 13 chapters of story on the site and pray Laurel doesn't hate me for adding so much in one go.

Wow, this is impressive. When I edit my stories they feel like they grow by 20k words.

I cheated, I wrote two big chapters and then decided at the end that things were moving too quickly and I had to rewrite everything to stretch it out. Cutting 20k words you just wrote sucks but the story is so much better for it. I'm getting better at recognizing how it feels when things are going to get cut though, so hopefully I won't have to scratch 25% of my writing for the next one.

I learnt from it though - important to keep perspective on your over-arching plan, even if that plan is only nine words scrawled on the back of a napkin.

I honestly really enjoyed this experience. I don't think I would've finished this story if it was still going to end the way the original plan was, the characters just didn't want to act that way. I scrapped another huge sex scene early on because it felt wrong, like I was forcing them into situations they didn't want to be in.

And I've read plenty of stories here that I WISH would continue because I've gotten deeply involved with the MCs...and then I look at the publish date and realize it was 20 years ago and I'll never know if they had an HEA or not.

I don't think I could publish anything that wasn't finished. I rewrote tiny parts of the first chapter when I was writing the epilogue. Little stuff like who had a hat on, how long ago they all met exactly, even the name of a few mentioned characters (the only people on screen are my main four, they're really, really far into no man's land).

When you write at novel length and with such intensity, it can be very hard to let go of the characters after. And you send the story out into the world, and you need it to be read, and for readers to understand and love the characters too, and any negative reviews that you read will hurt like hell.

I'm honestly dreading the negative reviews. I want people to read my story and like it, but you're right, if someone hates any of my characters, it'll be heartbreaking.

One thing I'm particularly worried about honestly, is that this story turned out way gayer and more polyamorous than I had intended. There's no animosity or conflict between any of them over "infidelity", and I've heard that that can be an issue on this site / the internet in general.

 

[Altissimus]

I honestly really enjoyed this experience. I don't think I would've finished this story if it was still going to end the way the original plan was, the characters just didn't want to act that way. I scrapped another huge sex scene early on because it felt wrong, like I was forcing them into situations they didn't want to be in.

Yeah, don't get me wrong - there's no reason why you shouldn't run away with your characters. I was merely flagging the pitfalls of consistency in the story if you do, because that was my fuck-up. TBH I often let my characters have their heads, but now I'm a bit more careful about consistency.

 

[AlinaX]

... this story turned out way gayer and more polyamorous than I had intended.

Nice.

 

[AchtungNight]

Infidelity has never been a big issue for me when it comes to fictional characters. Still, if you’re having an issue with it, including some nods to that issue can be nice. Do husband and wife have a prior agreement regarding cheating? Do they make it clear they intend to respect it? Is a wife motivating her temporary lover to be better than her husband and reminding herself she should love her husband more at the same time? Is the husband acting as a gatekeeper by exhausting the wife so she won’t seek the temporary lover and suggesting he fuck her hot daughter who is closer to the temp’s age group instead while still allowing his wife to get aroused by an imaginary fantasy? Is the husband screening people for the wife in some other way? Vice versa? Is your unicorn highly ethical and selective and planning her encounters accordingly? Is the husband respecting the wife’s need for bisexuality? I have used all these techniques in my work. Specific stories- Passion 4 and 5.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

As Terry Pratchett once noted, people don't have stories, stories have people to tell them. My stories merely use me to bring them to life and my choice is minimal.

Congrats on your discovering midwifery. Have fun.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, I intend to. I'm going to do some reading of the forums for some tips on whether I should publish in bulk or space them out. If I go spaced out, I'll have to add some quick recaps and re-explanations to the beginnings of stories. I have it all pretty much done though, other than a couple more editing passes and a final spit shine, so it's very tempting to just dump 13 chapters of story on the site and pray Laurel doesn't hate me for adding so much in one go.

I wouldn't recap at the beginning of chapters, that makes no sense once the story is out there. Do you ever see that in a book? No, you don't. They're chapters within a longer story.

If it's finished, I'd submit all thirteen chapters at the same time, with a Note to the Editor on the first chapter that another twelve are in the queue, right behind the first. That way, Laurel can review the entire story, then release a chapter every 24 or 48 hours (she sets a "go live" clock running).

Whatever you do, DON'T pull back a chapter to tweak it, or you'll completely cock up the release sequence.

 

[Booleanean]

Infidelity has never been a big issue for me when it comes to fictional characters. Still, if you’re having an issue with it, including some nods to that issue can be nice. Do husband and wife have a prior agreement regarding cheating? Do they make it clear they intend to respect it? Is a wife motivating her temporary lover to be better than her husband and reminding herself she should love her husband more at the same time? Is the husband acting as a gatekeeper by exhausting the wife so she won’t seek the temporary lover and suggesting he fuck her hot daughter who is closer to the temp’s age group instead while still allowing his wife to get aroused by an imaginary fantasy? Is the husband screening people for the wife in some other way? Vice versa? Is your unicorn highly ethical and selective and planning her encounters accordingly? Is the husband respecting the wife’s need for bisexuality? I have used all these techniques in my work. Specific stories- Passion 4 and 5.

That's good advice! My concern is more site-related than story related, both couples in my story have an interest in opening things up, everything's above board. I've just heard that open and honest non-monogamy gets a lot of hate on here from Certain Elements™

I wouldn't recap at the beginning of chapters, that makes no sense once the story is out there. Do you ever see that in a book? No, you don't. They're chapters within a longer story.

I meant more along the line of a second book in the series doing two sentence re-explanations, like Sanderson giving a quick recap of Alumancy by explaining some of it to a new character or giving the MC a second to fix her hair so he can describe the color to refresh people's minds. So instead of

Ella woke up and made her way to the beach, not bothering wearing anything.

in chapter four when everyone has been comfortably naked around each other for a couple thousand words you get

Ella woke up, looking around the camp she shared with her partner and two best friends, and made her way to the little pebble beach nearby. After all the fun the four of them had had over the last couple of days, wearing anything just to go wash up seemed entirely superfluous.

Just so that the reader is reminded that we're at a camp, and the characters have been doing things that would make being naked around each other totally expected. I guess it isn't really necessary for a set of chapters though.

If it's finished, I'd submit all thirteen chapters at the same time, with a Note to the Editor on the first chapter that another twelve are in the queue, right behind the first. That way, Laurel can review the entire story, then release a chapter every 24 or 48 hours (she sets a "go live" clock running).

Whatever you do, DON'T pull back a chapter to tweak it, or you'll completely cock up the release sequence.

Thanks for the advice! This is the first time I'm considering publishing something this big, so it's nice to have some first hand advice for how to best submit it.

 

[Booleanean]

As Terry Pratchett once noted, people don't have stories, stories have people to tell them. My stories merely use me to bring them to life and my choice is minimal.

Congrats on your discovering midwifery. Have fun.

That's very much how this felt. Midwifery, love it!

 

[Lifestyle66]

In my experience trying to write chapters of a swinger couple, I'd recommend you limit it to no more three or four chapters. I've found that after chapter five or six, you won't pick up new readers and the views will remain about the same regardless of how well you think that next chapter is written. You will reach a point in your story which you think is a critical event, and nobody will care because it's too far along in the chapters.

I'm now at 32 posted stories (15 chapters and other standalone stories), and I'm finding it easier to write the stand-alone stories at 10-12K words. And even then, if you try writing the same characters in another short standalone series (two chapters in my latest), the readership drops drastically in chapter two.

The standalone stories don't need to be comprehensive about EVERYTHING you want the readers to know about EVERY aspect of the characters. You have your characters firmly developed in your own mind. Now try to pick a few details to emphasize, encapsulate a key scene you need in a prologue to describe them, then write that story event keeping it all within 15k words.

By writing chapters, you will be stuck with past events in the story arc, and you learn from some comments small irritating things which you might have addressed differently. By going the standalone story with prologue approach, you can subtly change and grow those characters a little differently in future stories. And you might find your characters grow even better in your own mind.

BTW: Almost all of my 32 stories are about Ted and Jan, a longtime married swinger couple.

 

[AchtungNight]

It’s also true that some writers have pulled off epic expansive swinging series. Take Summer Camp or Nereids by Nick Scipio or numerous other works by Bluedragon (Book of David, Big Tits Club, Ordinary Sex Life). Or the Keyes Lodge, Journal of an Agent, or Harem series in the Celebrity Hollywood Swinging fanfic genre. My own work in the latter genre aspires to the same level of quality, but I’m first to agree if you say it doesn’t quite get there. Write what you are comfortable writing, hope you do it well. Even the epic swinger stories I listed have a few core characters on which they concentrate and there are many issues with each also. So the advice can go both ways.

 

[Lifestyle66]

In regards to getting into your characters, try reading my humorous story: "Getting Too Close - 750 Words"

 

[Booleanean]

I appreciate the feedback regarding the swinging stories, but the swinging was what I set out to write. It's turned into a very different story, that I just can't tell with only 10-15k words and have it be believable. People fall in love, re-examine decade+ old relationships, confront and discuss trauma, have breakdowns over how their new relationships fit into their old lives...

I'm already leaving so much out some areas of my characters are paper thin where I'd really like to flesh them out more. I just didn't have room on the page for or interest in writing deeper conflicts between the characters. It's them against social constructs, social anxiety, preconceptions of themselves and each other, internalized trauma, morphing self-images, lack of self-esteem. Everyone is great friends at the start, and they truly want nothing but the best for each other.

If the length of the story means I have fewer readers, that's fine. It's going to be way to gay for a lot of readers anyway. At one point, the guys go off while the women stay at camp. I write the time they spend apart twice, once from the POV character's perspective, then again from her partner as he recounts his (steamy) day, swithcing to his POV in a new chapter.

I write because it's a way for me to process my own life and relationship, to explore ideas I can't or might not even want to IRL, to interact with my characters. If people like it, that's a big bonus. I publish because it gives me a reason to polish and finish the story, to give me reasons to write different things to see if I enjoy that style or type of story. Otherwise it's just me sitting in a dark room, fantasizing with extra steps. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I've done that plenty too, I just lose motivation to rewrite and edit if it's going to be just for myself.

At the end of the day, if one person reads this entire thing from cover to cover, I'll be happy. My first story got a pretty good response with almost 4k views (I even got the coveted little red tag), but I'm really not expecting that kind of response for this one.

In regards to getting into your characters, try reading my humorous story: "Getting Too Close - 750 Words"

I gave it a read, it's an interesting take! A lot more direct than my own experience with my characters guiding my work, but definitely fun!

 

[Lifestyle66]

I appreciate the feedback regarding the swinging stories, but the swinging was what I set out to write. It's turned into a very different story, that I just can't tell with only 10-15k words and have it be believable. People fall in love, re-examine decade+ old relationships, confront and discuss trauma, have breakdowns over how their new relationships fit into their old lives...

I'm already leaving so much out some areas of my characters are paper thin where I'd really like to flesh them out more. I just didn't have room on the page for or interest in writing deeper conflicts between the characters. It's them against social constructs, social anxiety, preconceptions of themselves and each other, internalized trauma, morphing self-images, lack of self-esteem. Everyone is great friends at the start, and they truly want nothing but the best for each other.

If the length of the story means I have fewer readers, that's fine. ...

I felt that way about my characters. By the time I got to Chapter 11, commenters were thinking of the wife as a slut. So, I wanted to better define her and show her past which made her the way she is. Last year I wrote chapter 11 as "Lifestyle Ch. 11 - Demons Past" - "Wife returns to hometown, encountering an abusive ex-lover."

But it was disappointing in drawing fewer than 2k views over the subsequent six months and has only risen to 3.3k views recently.

This is why I caution about writing a series. You can get your expectations up with what you believe is the answer to the critics of earlier chapters, only to find that nobody cares to read it.

 

[Booleanean]

This is why I caution about writing a series. You can get your expectations up with what you believe is the answer to the critics of earlier chapters, only to find that nobody cares to read it.

that's really unfortunate that people had such a negative view of your character. It's good advice, but I'm already done with this story. When I'm done editing, it's getting published in bulk, so there's no way I could cave to commenter opinions

 

[Lifestyle66]

that's really unfortunate that people had such a negative view of your character. It's good advice, but I'm already done with this story. When I'm done editing, it's getting published in bulk, so there's no way I could cave to commenter opinions

It's not just about caving to their comments. It's about your own expectations and disappointments. But that too is a learning experience.

You will see numerous authors here discussing the "Red-H" and how much they hate those who even dare to give their stories a mere "4" rating.

I no longer need such validation.

 

[AchtungNight]

Again we sound of similar mentality, Boolean. Glad to see it. Thx to Lifestyle66 for your thoughts also, I will read & review Getting Too Close. I don’t think I will ever not need validation for my work but I’m getting to the point where I accept my sins slash accomplishments. Heh. At least not every author is doing crazy things like I’ve done and basing their fictional swinger network on real life celebrities whose lives are still in progress and trying to keep it in a close to reality but alternate reality! I’m cool with some developments in my characters’ lives but not so much with others’. Aside- Gwen, your target is James Franco on the set of late 90s tv show Freaks & Geeks- go get him but don’t hurt him too badly please. [Busy Phillips in a Gwenpool costume nods and teleports away to accomplish her mission.] That’s just one example.

Hesitate to base your characters on celebrities, swinging saga writers! We can’t all do it comfortably! Not everyone has a good relationship with the Time Dimensional Variance Authority and the Deadpool Corp! Speaking of which, Tara, Chet, how are our funds? [Ach’s accountants both give him thumbs up indicating his virtual currency other than time and inspiration is still virtually unlimited). Excellent!

Good luck, writers. I need recovery time to settle my mind’s free rein.

 

[sapphyrix]

i'm having this issue too lol. trying to write a quick and dirty short story and then the characters got mad at each other and the fmc got sad and i got sad O_O