'Open brawl': House Dems rip Rep. Omar for equating US, Israel, and Hamas

[CornusKousa]

Jewish state =/= religious state.

LOL!!! Whatever you've got to tell yourself.

Israel is a Jewish ethnonational state,

Man they sure do have a lot of ethnically non-Jewish folks they are awfully good too....myself included, for a Jewish ethnonational state.

and a secular republic.

Pretty much ALL the Muslims, and a majority of non-Jewish folks on the planet seem to think otherwise.

I wonder why that is??? Might have something to do with real action speaking louder than words

 

[pecksniff]

Pretty much ALL the Muslims, and a majority of non-Jewish folks on the planet seem to think otherwise.

I wonder why that is??? Might have something to do with real action speaking louder than words

Well, the Israeli government does not have anything analogous to Iran's Guardian Council of mullahs. It simply has an elected parliament, and there is no religious test as such for voting citizenship -- OTOH, the Law of Return automatically grants citizenship to ethnic Jews from anywhere in the world, and there is no such provision for Palestinians.

 

[WillJ8787]

As a prize of war, the Six-Day War of 1967. The WB was once considered part of Jordan, but Jordan has renounced any claim. The Gaza strip was under Egyptian military administration before 1967. A separate Palestinian Arab state was envisioned in the original partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, including Gaza and the WB, but, in the event, no such state was ever organized, and Palestine as such never was recognized as an independent country. The Israelis eventually officially annexed East Jerusalem, and (for purely strategic reasons) the Golan Heights, formerly Syrian territory. But they've never annexed the WB or Gaza -- that would raise the question of whether the non-Jewish residents are voting citizens. Israel does have non-Jewish citizens, but at present they're a small minority, not very important electorally or politically.

As for the Palestinian people, DNA tests show they are closely related to the Jews. In fact the Pals are descended from all the peoples who ever settled in or passed through Canaan. They're just the ones who never left. Usually they accepted, if required, the religion of whoever was the ruling power at the moment, which means most of them are now Muslims, as the land was under Islamic rule at most periods from the 8th Century to the 20th. Part of the reason there have been international wars over it since 1948 is that Muslims believe once territory is part of dar-al-Islam, it must never, ever become anything else, must never be surrendered to infidels.

Thank you...glad to have someone who knows history aboard!

 

[CornusKousa]

Well, the Israeli government does not have anything analogous to Iran's Guardian Council of mullahs.

No, but it doesn't have to.

It simply has an elected parliament, and there is no religious test as such for voting citizenship

Not officially, but effectively they do at the ballot box.

Much the way certain Christian groups have a noticeable influence on politics here, Utah for example, but to a far greater degree.

 

[ll74]

As a prize of war, the Six-Day War of 1967. The WB was once considered part of Jordan, but Jordan has renounced any claim. The Gaza strip was under Egyptian military administration before 1967. A separate Palestinian Arab state was envisioned in the original partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, including Gaza and the WB, but, in the event, no such state was ever organized, and Palestine as such never was recognized as an independent country. The Israelis eventually officially annexed East Jerusalem, and (for purely strategic reasons) the Golan Heights, formerly Syrian territory. But they've never annexed the WB or Gaza -- that would raise the question of whether the non-Jewish residents are voting citizens. Israel does have non-Jewish citizens, but at present they're a small minority, not very important electorally or politically.

As for the Palestinian people, DNA tests show they are closely related to the Jews. In fact the Pals are descended from all the peoples who ever settled in or passed through Canaan. They're just the ones who never left. Usually they accepted, if required, the religion of whoever was the ruling power at the moment, which means most of them are now Muslims, as the land was under Islamic rule at most periods from the 8th Century to the 20th. Part of the reason there have been international wars over it since 1948 is that Muslims believe once territory is part of dar-al-Islam, it must never, ever become anything else, must never be surrendered to infidels.

Israel's annexation has never been truly recognized.internationally. I know it's a complex.situation, but.until country borders can be acknowledged, this will always messy

 

[pecksniff]

One sticking point here is the strip of Jewish-settled territory between the Green Line (internationally recognized as Israel's eastern border with the WB) and the Wall. If Israel ever officially annexes that strip, there will be Hell to pay, because it includes territory an independent Palestine could hardly do without economically.

 

[pecksniff]

Frankly, I think the best solution would be a one-state solution: Let Israel annex the OTs and grant Israeli citizenship to their residents. Then Israel would still be Jewish-majority state, but it would be about 60% instead of 90% Jewish. That solution would allow the Jewish settlements in the West Bank to remain where they are, undisturbed. If those settlements were suddenly part of an independent Palestine, the Israeli Defense Force could not guarantee their safety.

I would even get behind the U.S. using force, military or economic, to force that one-state solution on Israel -- call it "Operation Shotgun Wedding."

 

[CornusKousa]

One sticking point here is the strip of Jewish-settled territory between the Green Line (internationally recognized as Israel's eastern border with the WB) and the Wall. If Israel ever officially annexes that strip, there will be Hell to pay, because it includes territory an independent Palestine could hardly do without economically.

Whatever the case I wish they would just piss or get off the pot already, have a treaty or a fight or whatever, but squash it already so everyone can get on with life.

 

[CornusKousa]

Frankly, I think the best solution would be a one-state solution: Let Israel annex the OTs and grant Israeli citizenship to their residents. Then Israel would still be Jewish-majority state, but it would be about 60% instead of 90% Jewish. That solution would allow the Jewish settlements in the West Bank to remain where they are, undisturbed. If those settlements were suddenly part of an independent Palestine, the Israeli Defense Force could not guarantee their safety.

I would even get behind the U.S. using force, military or economic, to force that one-state solution on Israel -- call it "Operation Shotgun Wedding."

I think outside force would be a terrible idea for all involved.

Authoritarianism is a terrible way of doing business.

 

[pecksniff]

I think outside force would be a terrible idea for all involved.

Generally true, but Israel was created by outside force, i.e., by European Zionists -- before they came in, the Jewish population of Palestine was negligible.

 

[Rightguide]

As a prize of war, the Six-Day War of 1967. The WB was once considered part of Jordan, but Jordan has renounced any claim. The Gaza strip was under Egyptian military administration before 1967. A separate Palestinian Arab state was envisioned in the original partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, including Gaza and the WB, but, in the event, no such state was ever organized, and Palestine as such never was recognized as an independent country. The Israelis eventually officially annexed East Jerusalem, and (for purely strategic reasons) the Golan Heights, formerly Syrian territory. But they've never annexed the WB or Gaza -- that would raise the question of whether the non-Jewish residents are voting citizens. Israel does have non-Jewish citizens, but at present they're a small minority, not very important electorally or politically.

As for the Palestinian people, DNA tests show they are closely related to the Jews. In fact the Pals are descended from all the peoples who ever settled in or passed through Canaan. They're just the ones who never left. Usually they accepted, if required, the religion of whoever was the ruling power at the moment, which means most of them are now Muslims, as the land was under Islamic rule at most periods from the 8th Century to the 20th. Part of the reason there have been international wars over it since 1948 is that Muslims believe once territory is part of dar-al-Islam, it must never, ever become anything else, must never be surrendered to infidels.

^^^
We've already addressed this BS:


"I'll make a couple of points. Prior to 1967 Egypt was illegally occupying Gaza and Jordan was illegally occupying Judea and Samaria. Israel defeated Egypt and Jordan in the 67 War and reclaimed their right to those territories originally granted to Israel in the British Mandate. It was the Israeli court and legal system that ousted these occupiers from "their homes." The bottom line is, Israel has legal dominion over these territories.

Israeli Arabs are those Arabs who did not flee or become expelled in 1948 or their descendants. They are about a fifth of the population. They sit on the Assembly and one presides on the Supreme Court. They have full rights as citizens of Israel. Arab citizens of Israel are separate and distinct from from West Bank Palestinians and and Arab residents of east Jerusalem. West Bank Palestinians have none of those rights. Their plight can be traced directly to the PLO, the PA, and Hamas. They are occupiers. They live under Israeli military control."

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1545145&highlight=Samaria

 

[pecksniff]

Israel defeated Egypt and Jordan in the 67 War and reclaimed their right to those territories originally granted to Israel in the British Mandate.

Those territories were not granted to Israel in the British Mandate; they were granted to a Palestine that never emerged as a state.

Arab citizens of Israel are separate and distinct from from West Bank Palestinians and and Arab residents of east Jerusalem. West Bank Palestinians have none of those rights. Their plight can be traced directly to the PLO, the PA, and Hamas. They are occupiers.

They are not "occupiers," they are the people who were living where they live now, before Zionism was ever heard of. Living in a place a foreign power takes over does not make you the occupier.

 

[Rightguide]

Those territories were not granted to Israel in the British Mandate; they were granted to a Palestine that never emerged as a state.



They are not "occupiers," they are the people who were living where they live now, before Zionism was ever heard of. Living in a place a foreign power takes over does not make you the occupier.

Shut the fuck up you stupid dunce. You, your ignorant lies, and revisionist history are blowing gut wind.

 

[pecksniff]

Shut the fuck up you stupid dunce. You, your ignorant lies, and revisionist history are blowing gut wind.

There is nothing "revisionist" in it. Anything that gave Israel any claim to the OTs other than occupation would be revisionist.

 

[pecksniff]

BTW, in terms of ancient historic territorial claims, there never really was a united kingdom of Israel-Judah. Nor was there ever an Exodus from Egypt. There was a House of David, but it never ruled anything but the territory around Jerusalem. See The Bible Unearthed, by Finkelstein and Silberman.