OK. I'll jump right in. Why is rape given special status as a crime?

[AG31]

EDIT four months later: This thread came to life in mid-February and aroused some more harsh feedback. In another thread @Bramblethorn said this: "Unfortunately, people often use the structure of a question ("why do folk do/believe X?") as a way to deliver a statement ("people who do/believe X are WRONG"). It happens enough that "just asking questions" has become a catchphrase for a certain kind of disruptive behaviour." I can see how this happens and want to be very, very clear that this is not what I'm doing in this thread. Thanks for the articulation, Bramblethorn.

Back to my post
************
I'm female. I've wondered this all my life. Let's compare it to assault during a mugging. Terrifying, for sure. Painful, probably. Would possibly engender lasting fear. But the fact that an act that is engaged in voluntarily all the time had been forced.... Why do we assume that there's life long trauma that is so awful that we restrict its depiction in a world that has a category called BDSM?

I understand that some people suffer ptsd more readily than others. But, again, there's that assault comparison.

OK. There's the societal history of not believing rape victims because they're female and it's sexual. That needs tending to. But the reaction I see doesn't seem limited to cleaning up our law enforcement practices. Why is rape treated in a special way in environments like Lit.? I frankly don't know what the rules are, as it's not my thing. But I've seen lots of posts that isolate rape as "special."

From my perspective it's not special in the world of erotica.

Caveats about me.

I'm not empathetic. I'm sympathetic, and in the old terms of Meyers Briggs, I'm highly motivated by justice. I've spent a lot of resources and energy defending people from this or that, but I don't get inside their heads. Still... there's that assault/rape comparison. What's different except for the behavior of law enforcement?

EDIT AFTER ALMOST A DAY OF REPLIES:

A few questions:

• Why was this post created? It’s not really anything to do with here - the OP tries to kinda link it, but - IMO - that’s window dressing

As I said in the OP, I've had this question most of my life. I've been impressed with the intelligent, mostly open, back and forth here on Lit, where I've just gotten active recently. I was sitting on the couch the other day and thought, "Oh! I could ask the forum!" Because I know from experience that this is not normally something discussable. I've gotten two or three attempts to answer the question here, but mostly it's just more of the "What??? How could you possibly not know the answer????"

• Maybe I’m wrong and it’s an in good faith attempt to discuss a difficult and sensitive issue. But it sure doesn’t smell that way.

Yes, you're wrong.

 

[TadOverdon]

I'm female. I've wondered this all my life. Let's compare it to assault during a mugging. Terrifying, for sure. Painful, probably. Would possibly engender lasting fear. But the fact that an act that is engaged in voluntarily all the time had been forced.... Why do we assume that there's life long trauma that is so awful that we restrict its depiction in a world that has a category called BDSM?

I understand that some people suffer ptsd more readily than others. But, again, there's that assault comparison.

OK. There's the societal history of not believing rape victims because they're female and it's sexual. That needs tending to. But the reaction I see doesn't seem limited to cleaning up our law enforcement practices. Why is rape treated in a special way in environments like Lit.? I frankly don't know what the rules are, as it's not my thing. But I've seen lots of posts that isolate rape as "special."

From my perspective it's not special in the world of erotica.

Caveats about me.

I'm not empathetic. I'm sympathetic, and in the old terms of Meyers Briggs, I'm highly motivated by justice. I've spent a lot of resources and energy defending people from this or that, but I don't get inside their heads. Still... there's that assault/rape comparison. What's different except for the behavior of law enforcement?

Because people have feelings?

 

[AlexBailey]

It’s a violation of more than just property or physical pain.

 

[AG31]

It’s a violation of more than just property or physical pain.

And that is what?

 

[AG31]

Because people have feelings?

Of course they do. Are you saying that the victim of an assault during a mugging doesn't have feelings?

 

[AchtungNight]

It involves the act of totally suborning the free will of the victim to the perpetrator. Forcing them to satisfy the person imposing their will on the victim, not caring if they get anything out of it at all. It also can often involve enforced shame, physical harm, waking up in a strange place with unexpected consequences. You may remember what happened to you and not want to but it will often haunt you- the suffering and the surrender. Or you have to remember to explain it and what it does to you. And you have to make a lot of people who can never understand what you’ve been through at least accept it if you want to move on with your life, punish the perpetrator, deal with your circumstances. It’s hard to accept, I know. Challenges even my imagination and I’ve written about sex many times and had it a few too.

All my sex has been consensual and enjoyable however. I’ve been lucky. The one time I was faced with the opposite I was able to fight off the aggressor. Now think about someone who couldn’t fight, who was forced to lie to another person out of fear that such an act was enjoyable for them. Then tell the truth to their friends, family, law enforcement… and make sense of their lives afterwards. It’s not easy. To say the least.

 

[AG31]

Now think about someone who couldn’t fight, who was forced to lie to another person out of fear that such an act was enjoyable for them. Then tell the truth to their friends, family, law enforcement… and make sense of their lives afterwards. It’s not easy. To say the least.

I'm afraid I didn't follow this bit real well. Could you elaborate?

 

[AchtungNight]

I'm afraid I didn't follow this bit real well. Could you elaborate?

Go see the Jodie Foster film “The Accused”. It deals with the subject matter about which you’re inquiring and makes a better illustration of my ideas than I can provide.

 

[AG31]

Go see the Jodie Foster film “The Accused”. It deals with the subject matter about which you’re inquiring and makes a better illustration of my ideas than I can provide.

Will do.

 

[Tigobitties98]

I hope you never have to find out why rape is such a devastating, and intimately violent crime, that it does in fact require a special category of justice. Don't look here. Rather, talk to victims advocates, law enforcement and others in the justice system as to why it is so different. A person in my family was in law enforcement for 20+ years and was retired for cptsd directly related to the years of violent sexual crimes he investigated. It's a horrible crime that steals your personhood in a way few other crimes can.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm glad you mentioned being female, because if this had been a guy's post I'd probably end up having my reply removed for overall nastiness.

You're fortunate to be so clueless.

Unfortunately, I fear you're going to buy into the mansplaining sure to arrive here shortly.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I genuinely and truly hope it's something you never understand.

I'm just going to leave it at that

What she said.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

OK. I'll jump right in. Why is rape given special status as a crime?​

I seriously fail to see how any woman cannot empathize with what it feels like to suffer violent sexual assault.

It’s different to being beaten up for your iPhone. Orders of magnitude different.

Even if you are lucky enough that it never happens to you, can’t you imagine what it might be like?

Em

 

[madelinemasoch]

I think it's because it's sadistic. It's not only violatory but apathetic towards the victim. They don't care about you and your wants and needs at all, and they make that explicitly clear in the action they force on you. They're not even doing it because they want to hurt you, they're doing it because they don't care if you're hurt.

Hope this helps...

 

[EmilyMiller]

It’s come to this. Rape trolling.

It’s fucking unbelievable.

Em

 

[Euphony]

It’s come to this. Rape trolling.

It’s fucking unbelievable.

Em

"I'm just asking questions."

 

[ruddygore]

Don't compare rape to assault. I think it would be better to compare it to slavery for the effect it has on the victim. The victim is not a person, but a thing to be used and discarded. The perpetrators probably don't see the victim as a person, but as a symbol for whatever they want to use to let out their rage and frustration.

 

[YDB95]

Here's a useful mind exercise that I've heard is used for real-life special victims' divisions: get together with someone you barely know, and tell that person all about your best sexual experience. Everything from the color of her bra to how it felt when she rubbed your dick for the first time (I know the OP is female; just reverse the examples as need be) to the noises you made when you came, to the afterglow, to how you felt about one another's bodies - all the details you can remember.

It does not sound like a fun thing to do, does it? I mean, I wouldn't discuss those things with my closest platonic friends, never mind someone I've just met!

Now consider: if it's that uncomfortable to tell one person about your best sexual experience, imagine telling dozens of people about your worst. Because that is what we ask rape survivors to do, at least in the very rare cases where it actually goes to trial (the great majority of rapists are never even arrested, for a variety of reasons). On top of that, imagine being repeatedly accused of actually wanting it to happen, or being told you brought it on yourself because you were wearing a short skirt or you flirted with the guy earlier on. We generally don't accuse mugging victims of wanting to be mugged, even if they did something dumb like walk alone through a dark alley in the middle of the night, and we sure as heck don't ever suggest murder victims wanted to die. But with rape, all too often people do.

That is the difference, just for starters.

 

[AG31]

It's a horrible crime that steals your personhood in a way few other crimes can.

So you're saying I can't understand your position unless I've been raped? And I'm saying I don't think I would react that way... feeling that my personhood had been stolen. I wonder why that is assumed. It may happen, but it may happen under other circumstances.

 

[AG31]

Here's a useful mind exercise that I've heard is used for real-life special victims' divisions: get together with someone you barely know, and tell that person all about your best sexual experience. Everything from the color of her bra to how it felt when she rubbed your dick for the first time (I know the OP is female; just reverse the examples as need be) to the noises you made when you came, to the afterglow, to how you felt about one another's bodies - all the details you can remember.

It does not sound like a fun thing to do, does it? I mean, I wouldn't discuss those things with my closest platonic friends, never mind someone I've just met!

Now consider: if it's that uncomfortable to tell one person about your best sexual experience, imagine telling dozens of people about your worst. Because that is what we ask rape survivors to do, at least in the very rare cases where it actually goes to trial (the great majority of rapists are never even arrested, for a variety of reasons). On top of that, imagine being repeatedly accused of actually wanting it to happen, or being told you brought it on yourself because you were wearing a short skirt or you flirted with the guy earlier on. We generally don't accuse mugging victims of wanting to be mugged, even if they did something dumb like walk alone through a dark alley in the middle of the night, and we sure as heck don't ever suggest murder victims wanted to die. But with rape, all too often people do.

That is the difference, just for starters.

OK. Well, maybe my question goes back a step. I don't think what you describe would necessarily be that devestating. Maybe it is sometimes. Oftentimes. But maybe that's the fault of how society frames things.

 

[AG31]

I will point out that it's one of the few crimes where you have to actually prove you were the victim of it. People just kinda believe mugging victims by default.

With rape there's this added humiliation of having to prove you didn't do anything that provoked the attack. Which is why it's one of the most underrated reported crimes.

I've been mugged, it sucks, it's not an intrusive crime. I didn't have to convince anyone that I wasn't flashing money around to draw the attention of muggers. I wasn't asked if I was walking around with expensive jewelry on display. I wasn't asked if I was sure I didn't misunderstand the situation. Wasn't asked if it was a transactional regret after the fact, either.

Rape is treated at a different level because the people who do it know the burden of proof is on their victim. Not everyone is strong enough to go through the accusations and ridicule that come with making a claim. Some even have family members and friends talk them out of it to avoid destroying the rapists life.

No one does that to a mugging victim. It's just accepted as having happened.

So. It's treated different because the people investigating it treat it differently. They react to it differently. The evidence gathering is a second assault on your body that many can't endure so their rapist gets away with it. Muggings don't require the additional humiliation of having to strip down in front of strangers so photos can be taken and swabs can be collected. The humiliation of knowing everyone who sees those photos are judging where or not they think you're fuckable enough to be raped. Juries included.

A mugging doesn't leave you laid bare in order to even have a hope of a chance at justice that will likely never come.

Right. We need to clean up our law enforcement behaviors. But that wasn't my question.

 

[Djmac1031]

Why do we assume that there's life long trauma that is so awful that we restrict its depiction in a world that has a category called BDSM?

"Assume?"

So if a rape victim claims they are suffering traumatic effects of their rape, you...what, DOUBT them?

More importantly, why is how rape is or isn't allowed to be portrayed in a fictional story here more important to you than actual human empathy for a fellow real world person?

If your right to write a rape story is more important to you than the feelings of a traumatized human being I think maybe you need to reexamine your priorities.

I find this whole thing quite disturbing.

 

[YDB95]

OK. Well, maybe my question goes back a step. I don't think what you describe would necessarily be that devestating.

That's because you've never had to do it.

 

[Euphony]

 

[EmilyMiller]

It’s like rock paper scissors.

Ignore beats trolls.

Em