NRA bans guns at their forum attended by Mike Pence

[KeithD]

You can thank Scalia that it’s now law of the land that the Constitution provides an individual right to an individual citizen to possess a firearm. He achieved his life long dream and got the SCOTUS to toss the “well-regulated militia” language of the 2nd Amendment out about a decade before he croaked.

Ownership of an AR-15 being against the law hasn't come to the Supreme Court yet. The Supreme Court has not ruled on the type of gun a civilian can own. If legislatures passed laws against AR-15 ownership and someone sues, that's where that question starts getting answered.

 

[EllieTalbot]

But doesn't it seem odd to you that a group pushing for concealed carry reciprocity and open carry blanch at the idea of having to keep their guns at home because they were asked?

Well, that's impossible to answer since I don't know (and neither do you) if every attendee "blanched" at the prospect of being asked to keep their guns at home.

Your point is imaginary, because it hinges on your imagination.

I suspect that it's likely many would imagine something unflattering no matter what their decision was.

Say they'd done the opposite, and Pence couldn't attend because of it. Then this thread wouldn't be about how hypocritical they are to eschew guns at their convention. It would be more along the lines of:

"NRA picks AKs over Pence

That's right! The VP wanted to attend the NRA convention, but the Secret Service said there couldn't be firearms (imagine that!). Naturally, the AK-addicts said 'Hell Naw! We're gonna have our bullet-spitters around and you can't stop us. Heil the 2cd Amendment!' These freaks can't even put their guns down long enough to ensure the safety of the Vice President of the US, who happens to agree with them! *&$%^ lunatics."

...or something along those lines.

If reasonable people were having this discussion, they might even take it as a good sign that the NRA displayed a lack of dogmatism in their decision.

But, as many of us have lamented, reasonable people aren't the ones initiating this discussion.

Sighing in Saipan,
Ellie

 

[Hypoxia]

USAnians supposedly possess rights to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, yada yada. The operational reality: you have the right to kill or be killed, so no other rights exist. Shoot or be shot, nothing more. Argue all you want. A bullet in the brain ends the discussion.

 

[EllieTalbot]

USAnians supposedly possess rights to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, yada yada. The operational reality: you have the right to kill or be killed, so no other rights exist. Shoot or be shot, nothing more. Argue all you want. A bullet in the brain ends the discussion.

Are you even sober?

I'm serious.

 

[Hypoxia]

Are you even sober?

I'm serious.

Terribly serious. If anyone can shoot you dead whenever they want, your 'rights' to live, speak, vote, or work don't exist. You're dead or not. All else are fantasies. I HAVE A RIGHT TO WORSHIP! Bang. Not any more. I HAVE A RIGHT TO [WHATEVER]! Bang. No you don't. You can live; or you can die; and nothing else matters. A bullet erases all rights.

 

[JackLuis]

What If...?
What if someone shot Pence at the NRA Convention and that made Ryan VP, and if Trump is convicted, Paul Ryan could be Prez!

Scary, Hunh?

 

[Veroe]

What If...?
What if someone shot Pence at the NRA Convention and that made Ryan VP, and if Trump is convicted, Paul Ryan could be Prez!

Scary, Hunh?

Oh my god Jack you're gonna give me nightmares.

 

[KeithD]

What If...?
What if someone shot Pence at the NRA Convention and that made Ryan VP, and if Trump is convicted, Paul Ryan could be Prez!

Scary, Hunh?

The death of a vice president doesn't automatically move the speaker of the house up, so that's not something to worry about. By the 25th Amendment, the president appoints a replacement.

Ryan was just the votes away from being vice president already and he no doubt is trying to get out of D.C. to run for president when the voters forget what he did in Washington.

 

[phrodeau]

What If...?
What if someone shot Pence at the NRA Convention and that made Ryan VP, and if Trump is convicted, Paul Ryan could be Prez!

Scary, Hunh?

What if someone shot him in the head and didn't kill him, but turned him into a gun control advocate?

 

[EllieTalbot]

Terribly serious. If anyone can shoot you dead whenever they want, your 'rights' to live, speak, vote, or work don't exist. You're dead or not. All else are fantasies... You can live; or you can die; and nothing else matters.

You're aware we're not living in a zombie apocalypse, right?

I HAVE A RIGHT TO WORSHIP! Bang. Not any more. I HAVE A RIGHT TO [WHATEVER]! Bang. No you don't... A bullet erases all rights.

Erm, no.

Someone who shoots you doesn't erase your rights, they violate your rights, and it's no more heinous than if they stabbed, drowned, or beat you, or ran you over or set you on fire.

I take that back. Being shot is probably less heinous than being stabbed or beaten,
which are more existentially terrifying, and much less painful than being set on fire.

But that's arguable.

Subjective in Sussex,
Ellie

 

[Wrong Element]

You're aware we're not living in a zombie apocalypse, right?

It would certainly explain a lot.

 

[Blue]

What if someone shot him in the head and didn't kill him, but turned him into a gun control advocate?

I heard an anecdote from a guy once who claimed that his ultra-religious and ultra-conservative father, a'kill all the Muslims'/'obama's coming to take yer guns'/'gays should have no rights' type of guy, had a stroke and turned into a liberal live-and-let-live social democrat.

 

[ausfet]

I don't see hypocrisy at all. Normally, firearms are allowed at NRA convention venues. The NRA invites the President and VP to speak. However, the Secret Service does not allow anyone, other than SS or LE to have firearms at functions where the POTUS or VP are. SS rule, not NRA. So, NRA can either cancel the speeches or let members know that there are no firearms allowed at the speech. The NRA really wants them to speak so they so inform members. 99.9% of NRA members fully understand and are ok with that. If someone is not ok, they are of course free to not attend. Why is this a problem? Its not for the NRA. Anti-NRA folks are trying very hard to make it appear that this is some sort of hypocrisy when there is none. Even though AP corrected its original story the other day, many media outlets today are still reporting that the NRA is banning firearms at the event. This is a classic example of "fake news." A non-story that is being misrepresented as a huge story.

If your President and VP had any balls whatsoever they'd revoke SS rules and do away with bodyguards and no firearm rules. But they don't because....drumroll.... they know that there are too many dipshits with guns and vendettas, with nothing to lose, who will start taking pot shots at them. And the NRA have supported the President and VP in going 'yeah, well, them rules... can't change them' because they KNOW they can't be moseying around unarmed, even at conventions filled with their own supporters.

 

[dan_c00000]

I suspect that it's likely many would imagine something unflattering no matter what their decision was.

Now you're the one imaging things.

Let's put it another way: if you were a pro-gun person who voted for candidates who shared your views, paid dues to the NRA, and were very much in favor of open carry and you received a letter in the mail saying that the event you plan on attending which features a very important (also pro-gun) person has asked you leave your gun at home how would you feel? What would you do?

 

[EllieTalbot]

Now you're the one imaging things.

Let's put it another way: if you were a pro-gun person who voted for candidates who shared your views, paid dues to the NRA, and were very much in favor of open carry and you received a letter in the mail saying that the event you plan on attending which features a very important (also pro-gun) person has asked you leave your gun at home how would you feel? What would you do?

Your question assumes that everyone in that situation would feel and think the same way, as if they're all alike... which makes you a bit of a bigot.

If it were me, I'd have a silent chuckle at the irony of the world in which I live, leave my firearms at home, go to the event, and have a not-so-silent chuckle at the petty nitwits hissing the word "hypocrite" at me.

Bemused in Bedford,
Ellie

 

[Carnal_Flower]

First of all, who are these "celebrities?" Name one.

Second of all, advocating for gun control does not mean "everyone is safer without guns." Being pro gun control does not mean being "anti-gun." No, that's not what sensible gun control advocates say. Just ask the Parkland kids. Pro 2nd Amendment. Some of their dads own guns. Some of their dads are cops, FBI Agents. I don't hear them making blanket general statements that "everyone is safer without guns."

Give us an example. Name one.

Thirdly, who are these supposed "anti-gun" celebrities "making gun violence cool onscreen?" Give an example.

Conclusion: you just spewed a bunch of bull trying to make an analogy that doesn't hold up. "As far as hypocrisy goes" your whataboutism is useless.

Then you're also obliged to sneer at anti-gun celebrities because their entire argument is that everyone is safer without guns, but their actions contradict what they claim to believe. They're fine with making gun violence cool onscreen and surrounding themselves with armed guards. If they actually believed what they say they wouldn't allow guns in their lives, much less use them to boost ticket sales.

As far as hypocrisy goes, it's a draw, and therefore a useless observation.

Just Sayin' in Joliet,
Ellie

 

[EllieTalbot]

First of all, who are these "celebrities?" Name one.

Second of all, advocating for gun control does not mean "everyone is safer without guns." Being pro gun control does not mean being "anti-gun." No, that's not what sensible gun control advocates say. Just ask the Parkland kids. Pro 2nd Amendment. Some of their dads own guns. Some of their dads are cops, FBI Agents. I don't hear them making blanket general statements that "everyone is safer without guns."

Give us an example. Name one.

Thirdly, who are these supposed "anti-gun" celebrities "making gun violence cool onscreen?" Give an example.

Conclusion: you just spewed a bunch of bull trying to make an analogy that doesn't hold up. "As far as hypocrisy goes" your whataboutism is useless.

What a silly post.

You should probably read follow-up posts to the one you quoted (like the one that includes a link), and the ones in which I address the points you probably think you just made for the first time.

When you have an argument no one else has tried yet, get back to me.

Rebuffing Redundancy,
Ellie

 

[dan_c00000]

Let's put it another way: if you were a pro-gun person

Weird, I used the word "you" in there and asked specifically for your feelings and reaction. I mean I wouldn't want to go around declaring people bigoted randomly and without evidence. That'd be like me saying that all NRA people are pro-child killing! I mean they are but, you know, they'd rather not have the reality of their actions shoved down their throats by East coast, liberal elitists like me!

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Can't name any examples, noted

What a silly post.

You should probably read follow-up posts to the one you quoted (like the one that includes a link), and the ones in which I address the points you probably think you just made for the first time.

When you have an argument no one else has tried yet, get back to me.

Rebuffing Redundancy,
Ellie

 

[EllieTalbot]

Weird, I used the word "you" in there and asked specifically for your feelings and reaction.

Weird - I included what my specific feelings and thoughts would be. But of course you wouldn't just ignore that, I'm sure.

I mean I wouldn't want to go around declaring people bigoted randomly and without evidence.

That's nice! And I woudn't either. So perhaps the vehemence of your reaction is a good sign that you're not bigoted after all, even though you automatically envisioned every invitee of that convention "blanching" at the prospect of leaving their guns at home and have been rabidly trying to defend that xenophobic sentiment since uttering it.

That'd be like me saying that all NRA people are pro-child killing! I mean they are but, you know, they'd rather not have the reality of their actions shoved down their throats by East coast, liberal elitists like me!

Irony indeed.

You aren't much of a liberal, "Dan."

Elitist, likely. Orthodox alt left, probably.

Liberal?

Doubtful about the Dogmatic,
Ellie

 

[EllieTalbot]

Can't name any examples, noted

Too lazy to read and follow links, noted.

Appreciative when the Addle-brained are Abbreviated,
Ellie

 

[Carnal_Flower]

True. Too lazy to go looking up where you walked back your silly first post.

Too lazy to read and follow links, noted.

Appreciative when the Addle-brained are Abbreviated,
Ellie

 

[dan_c00000]

Elitist, likely. Orthodox alt left, probably.

I'm very alt-left. I'm the most alt-left. I only uses non-gendered pronouns in my super liberal indoctrinating courses wherein I teach capitalism and white male privilege is the root of all evil!

 

[EllieTalbot]

True. Too lazy to go looking up where you walked back your silly first post.

I'm very alt-left. I'm the most alt-left. I only uses non-gendered pronouns in my super liberal indoctrinating courses wherein I teach capitalism and white male privilege is the root of all evil!

It''s always fun when they just dissolve into utter silliness.

Snickering at my Snacks,
Ellie

 

[Hypoxia]

Someone who shoots you doesn't erase your rights, they violate your rights, and it's no more heinous than if they stabbed, drowned, or beat you, or ran you over or set you on fire.

So rights are not erased by death? Please explain my posthumous rights.

And while various forms of murder may be equally heinous, shooting is easier, hence its popularity. Strangulation is just *SO* tedious...

I repeat: If you haven't the right to live as a person born, you have no rights.