Landmark Report Concludes Abortion In U.S. Is Safe

[Luk]

Look at the cowardly cunt AJ only quote the half-witted #### and not the bitchslap posts that proved him wrong. I can see why Que looks up to him.

 

[beew]

And that is the problem when using stats subjectively. WK out.

Looks like you have a point. From aboveaverage's link http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

Abortion should be ... % of U.S. adults
Legal in all cases 25
Legal in most cases 33
Illegal in most cases 24
Illegal in all cases 16
DK/Ref 3


We should just drop the Stats. because my head will explode and the trolls will have apoplexy attacks.

Nevertheless, the nationwide pulse is easier to feel: Americans are getting more conservative with regards to abortions. Strange and not good.

Why is this happening?
Bad publicity regarding Plannet Parenthood, a reaction to some of the online propaganda? The 4th turning?
It all parallels other spheres or politics too, where as a reaction to globalism, Americans and some Europeans elected popullist nationalistic parties and are now falling into the other extreme.

.

 

[Luk]

And that is the problem when using stats subjectively. WK out.

Like, your "coming" out?
Like, you've ruined yet another username and have been shamed into creating a new one?

 

[adrina]

Why is this happening?
Bad publicity regarding Plannet Parenthood, a reaction to some of the online propaganda? The 4th turning?
It all parallels other spheres or politics too, where as a reaction to globalism, Americans and some Europeans elected popullist nationalistic parties and are now falling into the other extreme.

.

Right wing conservatives exploiting it as a red meat wedge issue by appealing to people's base emotions. "Save the babies!!!" ramped up to maximum volume.

 

[Chancellor_Palpatine]

So what's the deal about AJ's mathmatics [sic] degree? Did he receive it by mail?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Roughly 20% think abortion should be illegal.

Roughly 25% think Abortion should be "legal in all cases".

Roughly 55% think abortion should be legal but restricted.

So 80% think abortion should remain legal. But those 20% would have you believe they are a majority - for sure.

it's 25% legal in all cases, 33% legal with some restrictions.
That's approximately 58% rounded.
Basically 3 out of 5 Americans support some sort of access to abortion.
Slightly more women than men.

 

[KimGordon67]

Why not? I actually think that they should.

I Am judgmental of that small subgroup of women.

But (contrary to your judgmental view of me) my personal views wouldn't translate into oppressive or further abortion ban on my part
They would translate into more aggressive Education and suggestions for Preventive measures.

Overemphasizing support to the detriment of problem solving and education because you don't want to hurt feelings, can be detrimental in the long run.

No - you also argued for medical intervention in 'extreme' cases

 

[KimGordon67]

I suspect that we have different approaches to these particular debates.

If I'm not mistaken, for you they're about the topic and they intersect with your personal values,
whereas for me they're just about the process.

The things that interest me or I really care about aren't generally discussed in this forum. Yet I still engage in such debates for entertainment or to stimulate my remaining brain cells, or for the posters.
I also enjoy the luxury of being nonPC. Unfortunately, with that comes the inevitable risk of offending someone, risk that I'm prepared to take rather than turn into a Debbie. Especially since these virtual debates have absolutely no impact on real life.

I'm sorry if I offended you or if I came across as callous or flakey. But I hope that my explanation will shed some light on where I'm coming from.

It's cute that you think some random stranger on the internet can offend me or anyone really.
Amd thanks for explaining to me why I choose to engage in particular debates.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

it's 25% legal in all cases, 33% legal with some restrictions.
That's approximately 58% rounded.
Basically 3 out of 5 Americans support some sort of access to abortion.
Slightly more women than men.

Gallup's tracking back to the 70s was interesting and I thought showed a reasonably consistent opinion of the people in the US.

Also interesting that just under half will say "pro-life" but still 80% say that it should be legal:

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

 

[beew]

Unrelated to the arguments in this thread. I was just thinking in general:

I hate statistics.

And while I have no excuse for sucking at it (IQ combined with lazinness) and I agree that there is a huge need for objectivity and statistics nowadays,

I aso despise the cult-like manner manner in which our contemporary society has elevated Statistics to the level of a ruling authority. Everything is fucking measured and research and creativity have been replaced by measuring and collecting things.

 

[beew]

No - you also argued for medical intervention in 'extreme' cases

Well, I still remember vividly a complex and ethically ambiguous case that hit the mainstream many years ago. They said that an (unidentified) woman who had some degree of mental retardation kept having accidental pregnancies due to poor discernment and inadequate contraceptive practices. And she had multiple abortions and the rest of her kids ended up in foster care or cared for by relatives.

It was not ok that it was leaked in the first place , and I assume that heads fell. But I also recall the back and forth discussions, and that nobody from either camp were able to say that Their proposed solution was the most ethical one.

But coming back to our discussion:
I would like to know that there are also much more aggressive education and suggestions for IUD's or reversible vasectomies, if health practitioners from abortion clinics feel that the persons in question are poor at adhering to traditional methods. Instead of this compartimentalization in which that part is passed to the family practitioner.
Maybe abortion clinics are doing it already, I'm not familiar with their practices.

 

[beew]

But coming back to our discussion:
I would like to know that there are also much more aggressive education and suggestions for IUD's or reversible vasectomies, if health practitioners from abortion clinics feel that the persons in question are poor at adhering to traditional methods. Instead of this compartimentalization in which that part is passed to the family practitioner.
Maybe abortion clinics are doing it already, I'm not familiar with their practices.

I'm also having in mind a British article which claimed that, while the abortion rates in UK have declined, the nombers of women having multiple abortions have increased.
(the year was 2014 but unfortunately I can't recall which article it was to check it's validity).

Anyway: based on that information, CoachDB would argue that women as a whole are becoming more irresponsible.

I would argue the contrary: that women as a whole are getting much better at prevention (fewer accidental pregnancies and if so, two at most).
But that there still is a small subgroup of women who generally do poor prevention, and that they need to be targetted aggressively through education and suggestions for IUD or so on.

If those statistics don't improve , it might well be that the Right could use them as their argument for banning elective abortions for All women, including the responsible ones.

 

[KimGordon67]

Well, I still remember vividly a complex and ethically ambiguous case that hit the mainstream many years ago. They said that an (unidentified) woman who had some degree of mental retardation kept having accidental pregnancies due to poor discernment and inadequate contraceptive practices. And she had multiple abortions and the rest of her kids ended up in foster care or cared for by relatives.

It was not ok that it was leaked in the first place , and I assume that heads fell. But I also recall the back and forth discussions, and that nobody from either camp were able to say that Their proposed solution was the most ethical one.

But coming back to our discussion:
I would like to know that there are also much more aggressive education and suggestions for IUD's or reversible vasectomies, if health practitioners from abortion clinics feel that the persons in question are poor at adhering to traditional methods. Instead of this compartimentalization in which that part is passed to the family practitioner.
Maybe abortion clinics are doing it already, I'm not familiar with their practices.

You originally also said something like tubal ligation.
IUDs are, in a significant number of cases, hideous. The surgery did indeed put one in my mother when she had a termination, and it was a total nightmare, and got removed within months.
When you get a vasectomy, the doctor says 'don't consider this reversible - if you think you might change your mind later, don't get the vasectomy now'. The success rate of reversals are very low. (Also, it's adorable that you think you could locate the donor/s of the sperm and get them into a clinic to do this surgery.)

If you're going to make arguments, you need to check that they're correct first.

 

[KimGordon67]

I'm also having in mind a British article which claimed that, while the abortion rates in UK have declined, the nombers of women having multiple abortions have increased.
(the year was 2014 but unfortunately I can't recall which article it was to check it's validity).

Anyway: based on that information, CoachDB would argue that women as a whole are becoming more irresponsible.

I would argue the contrary: that women as a whole are getting much better at prevention (fewer accidental pregnancies and if so, two at most).
But that there still is a small subgroup of women who generally do poor prevention, and that they need to be targetted aggressively through education and suggestions for IUD or so on.

If those statistics don't improve , it might well be that the Right could use them as their argument for banning elective abortions for All women, including the responsible ones.

Interesting how your argument suddenly seems very gendered ...

 

[KimGordon67]

Unrelated to the arguments in this thread. I was just thinking in general:

I hate statistics.

And while I have no excuse for sucking at it (IQ combined with lazinness) and I agree that there is a huge need for objectivity and statistics nowadays,

I aso despise the cult-like manner manner in which our contemporary society has elevated Statistics to the level of a ruling authority. Everything is fucking measured and research and creativity have been replaced by measuring and collecting things.

Stats are a much better basis for policy than people's morality.

 

[schism666]

and still, we argue about it.

 

[Conager]

Like, your "coming" out?
Like, you've ruined yet another username and have been shamed into creating a new one?

That post did not age as well as spam.

Poor Kato the copyboy.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

That post did not age as well as spam.

Poor Kato the copyboy.

Spam ages well
Kato makes more on bad day than Que makes weakly (yes, that was on purpose)
Que is an Uber driver

Que is a fan of masochistic love.

 

[rockcasbah]

Poor luk; still making "copies" of his posts after all these years.

 

[Conager]

Odd how tight-lipped Luk is about his super-secret, highly prestigious new "career" that he qualified for with his curriculum vitae with an incomplete high school education and experience making copies for a couple of decades.

Maybe he went bold and listed the illicit drug sales of his youth on a resume to big pharna?

I'm working out the math, but I am having trouble figuring out how Luk the dropout rates the $300+ an hour he just claimed to be making.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Odd how tight-lipped Luk is about his super-secret, highly prestigious new "career" that he qualified for with his curriculum vitae with an incomplete high school education and experience making copies for a couple of decades.

Maybe he went bold and listed the illicit drug sales of his youth on a resume to big pharna?

I'm working out the math, but I am having trouble figuring out how Luk the dropout rates the $300+ an hour he just claimed to be making.

Did you post this while driving for me?

-points

 

[rockcasbah]

Odd how tight-lipped Luk is about his super-secret, highly prestigious new "career" that he qualified for with his curriculum vitae with an incomplete high school education and experience making copies for a couple of decades.

Maybe he went bold and listed the illicit drug sales of his youth on a resume to big pharna?

I'm working out the math, but I am having trouble figuring out how Luk the dropout rates the $300+ an hour he just claimed to be making.

Maybe his alts have jobs?

 

[pecksniff]

Gallup's tracking back to the 70s was interesting and I thought showed a reasonably consistent opinion of the people in the US.

Also interesting that just under half will say "pro-life" but still 80% say that it should be legal:

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

I expect there are a lot of Americans who feel morally uncomfortable about abortion, but still want the clinics to be there in case their teenage daughters get pregnant.

 

[nowisthetime]

Absolutely, but it shouldn't even get to such a drastic and expensive procedure (unless in cases of emergency, of course). This is 2021, in rich western nation, there are ways to prevent pregnancy. There is birth control including the OTC Plan B pill which taken within 72 hours can prevent pregnancy (and it's not an abortion pill like some dummies claim).

 

[pecksniff]

and still, we argue about it.

Because the anti-abortion movement keeps repeating long-debunked lies over and over, such as "abortion causes breast cancer" or "abortion causes sterility." Such are not at all relevant to their essentially moralistic position, and apparently are invoked only to frighten pregnant women away from getting one.