If you love the kids, you’ll arm the teachers!

[HisArpy]

Many of these kids are from white affluent conservative families.

I can cite to news reports in Chicago, NYC, Dallas, Miami, Los Angeles, and so on that say otherwise. World news will also tell us otherwise.

Killing isn't a "white affluent conservative family" thing.

 

[bestone4ever]

I can cite to news reports in Chicago, NYC, Dallas, Miami, Los Angeles, and so on that say otherwise. World news will also tell us otherwise.

Killing isn't a "white affluent conservative family" thing.

We're talking about mass school shootings, not random gun violence committed in violent cities in America.

Why do people keep comparing gun violence n America to atrocities in Syria, Palestine, etc.? We're not a 3rd world nation so quit putting us on their level.

 

[Rightguide]

Many of these kids are from white affluent conservative families.

Yeah? Name'em. If true and it isn't, so what?

 

[bestone4ever]

Yeah? Name'em. If true and it isn't, so what?

Pretty much every last school shooting even going back to Columbine.

 

[jomar]

Hey, a guys gotta reach for the stars. Or something like that anyway.

But, back to the thorny issue. When you say things you are subject to being challenged for them. One of the things you said I challenged.

You say there are studies that show the US has a gun problem. I say those studies are flawed because they all start from the same place - the US has a gun problem - and work backward to create support for their conclusions.

Where is your rebuttal? Other than being a jerk that is.

Be aware that for every study you show that has that conclusion I can show one that refutes it with documentary facts that show otherwise. That's a null sum equation because citation to outside sources isn't argument. We know there are studies on both sides of the issue, that's not the question. The question is: Can you defend your theory with logic and reason in a manner which shows you actually thought about it rather than simply parroting the work of others?

If all you have to respond with is "NRA bad, you bad" then you have no debate support for your assertions beyond the initial claims. Your job is to back up what you say. That you didn't, or couldn't, means you lost in this exchange of ideas and concepts.

LOL, you are claiming your assertions are facts?

Google worldwide study on gun violence...the link isn’t working for me here. Research most certainly is in the mix with a ton of studies from a variety of independent sources pointing to the amount of an ease of access accounting for more gun deaths in America vs other countries other things being equal.

Why won’t our government allow the CDC to study/track gun related incidents? We did not want to know, apparently.

 

[HisArpy]

We're talking about mass school shootings, not random gun violence committed in violent cities in America.

Why do people keep comparing gun violence n America to atrocities in Syria, Palestine, etc.? We're not a 3rd world nation so quit putting us on their level.

*sigh*

At any rate, it certainly wasn’t true—as many argued then, and many do today—that mass shooters were “almost exclusively” or “disproportionately” or “nearly all” white.
Article on demographics

This may be an attractive, tidy take for explaining mass shootings — one guaranteed to generate controversy and clicks. It’s also an extremely inaccurate, overly reductive, and misleading approach to a serious societal problem. People should really stop making such a glib and substance-free argument.

At the most basic level, they should stop making it because it stands on a very rickety foundation. It isn’t even clear that whites do commit mass shootings in quantities disproportionate to their overall demographic representation.
Whiteness doesn't cause mass shootings

These are facts. Not myths, not hyperbole.

And the reason people compare the US to the rest of the world's death toll is that here in the US we are an amalgamation of all races and creeds yet we don't see the violence that other places have. Places that are predominantly NOT "white".

But, according to you and others, it's all the white man's fault.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

You're both wrong and you're both right - on technicalities.



Maybe if you both weren't hellbent on claiming internet victory, you could learn something about the topics of which you speak.

Sy's links backed me up, and I appreciate Sy providing them.

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

Sherlock Holmes - How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

 

[Taint_mAnn]

We're talking about mass school shootings, not random gun violence committed in violent cities in America.

Why do people keep comparing gun violence n America to atrocities in Syria, Palestine, etc.? We're not a 3rd world nation so quit putting us on their level.

You're a first world shithole.

 

[bestone4ever]

*sigh*





These are facts. Not myths, not hyperbole.

And the reason people compare the US to the rest of the world's death toll is that here in the US we are an amalgamation of all races and creeds yet we don't see the violence that other places have. Places that are predominantly NOT "white".

But, according to you and others, it's all the white man's fault.

What?

Sy's links backed me up, and I appreciate Sy providing them.

Yeah, he would have done better to read his own shit first.

 

[bestone4ever]

You're a first world shithole.

 

[HisArpy]

LOL, you are claiming your assertions are facts? Do you think before posting?

Google worldwide study on gun violence...the link isn’t working for me here.

Like I said, for every study you can find saying that guns are the problem I can cite to one that says differently. Like this:

Short article

Based on research, the data suggests that availability of guns doesn't contribute to mass shootings or killings. It is a factor because without the weapon being obtainable the killing wouldn't occur in that fashion. But, it is not the gun that causes the killing. Nor would removing that method end the shootings because the killers would change the way they execute their plan rather than stop.

The alternative methods the killers would/could use would have more destructive power and would cause more deaths and casualties than a single person with a firearm can achieve.

This is what the data shows without manipulation or political posturing. Nor does it suggest (as some here will instantly claim) that we "accept" the death toll because we like our guns. What it says is that there is a valid substantiated reason for these events and we are not talking about, or doing anything about, it.

Where's your counterpoint? Or are you just going to go directly to name calling?

 

[IG_88]

What?



Yeah, he would have done better to read his own shit first.

Did I miss something about the younger kids? I didn't read it all. Shit happens.

 

[bestone4ever]

Did I miss something about the younger kids? I didn't read it all. Shit happens.

Should we jump all over your ignorant ass like you did this morning with that "cherry" woman?

Don't fret, all bullies get the shit kicked out of them eventually, nothing to be embarrassed about. Today was your day.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Like I said, for every study you can find saying that guns are the problem I can cite to one that says differently. Like this:

Short article

Based on research, the data suggests that availability of guns doesn't contribute to mass shootings or killings. It is a factor because without the weapon being obtainable the killing wouldn't occur in that fashion. But, it is not the gun that causes the killing. Nor would removing that method end the shootings because the killers would change the way they execute their plan rather than stop.

The alternative methods the killers would/could use would have more destructive power and would cause more deaths and casualties than a single person with a firearm can achieve.

This is what the data shows without manipulation or political posturing. Nor does it suggest (as some here will instantly claim) that we "accept" the death toll because we like our guns. What it says is that there is a valid substantiated reason for these events and we are not talking about, or doing anything about, it.

Where's your counterpoint? Or are you just going to go directly to name calling?

So why are all these killers choosing guns?

 

[IG_88]

Should we jump all over your ignorant ass like you did this morning with that "cherry" woman?

Don't fret, all bullies get the shit kicked out of them eventually, nothing to be embarrassed about. Today was your day.

You can do whatever you want. No skin off my ass.
You also don't know my motivations. Might wanna think about that.
Don't you wonder why I go after some but not others? No clear reason like politics or sex or interests. Others post equally stupid things but I never say word.

Something to chew on. I gotta go mow. Enjoy.

 

[bestone4ever]

You can do whatever you want. No skin off my ass.
You also don't know my motivations. Might wanna think about that.
Don't you wonder why I go after some but not others? No clear reason like politics or sex or interests. Others post equally stupid things but I never say word.

Something to chew on. I gotta go mow. Enjoy.

You should have been Ackbar or something. At least he was funny in his ineptitude.

 

[HisArpy]

So why are all these killers choosing guns?

Perhaps it is because they are indoctrinated by culture to believe that a gun makes them all powerful and that with a gun they can achieve mighty victory over the forces of evil?

Maybe if more movies and video games used pipe bombs by the hero we'd see a rise in those uses. And rap music. We need more gangsta rap about blowing up the white house with a bomb. that way we would have correlating data to determine IF it is the availability of guns or social norms that instill certain behaviors in some individuals.

 

[beew]

All it takes is one deranged kid, one damaged little mind, out of millions upon millions of students to cause a social catastrophe. This is why we aren't going to solve this problem, no matter how many of our civil rights the left demands we surrender.

We'd be better off going after their parents in a big way, after all this aberrant behavior is instilled and nurtured in the environments they create in their homes. We should look into the totally undisciplined learning environments inside our public school systems as well.

I think that it's the opposite of that.

I was listening to this podcast the other day, which said that the schooling system is much more stressful for kids nowadays. On the one hand they are constantly measured and under pressure to perform, on the other hand they feel in limbo about their future in an economic system in which they are more likely to become "losers" than "winners."
Add school and online bullying to the picture.

It's sometimes harder for boys, because the sense of shame is at odds with their sense of masculinity.
I know how hard my nephews took it when they were rejected and picked on as newcomers to their school. So what did their parents do? They packed their after-hours with sports. They excelled in sports and made frieds there, which also improved both ther self-esteem and their social standing at school.

But not all kids have the advantage of an alternative source of stability and meaning or of support, so it's easy to get lost.

 

[jomar]

Like I said, for every study you can find saying that guns are the problem I can cite to one that says differently. Like this:

Short article

Based on research, the data suggests that availability of guns doesn't contribute to mass shootings or killings. It is a factor because without the weapon being obtainable the killing wouldn't occur in that fashion. But, it is not the gun that causes the killing. Nor would removing that method end the shootings because the killers would change the way they execute their plan rather than stop.

The alternative methods the killers would/could use would have more destructive power and would cause more deaths and casualties than a single person with a firearm can achieve.

This is what the data shows without manipulation or political posturing. Nor does it suggest (as some here will instantly claim) that we "accept" the death toll because we like our guns. What it says is that there is a valid substantiated reason for these events and we are not talking about, or doing anything about, it.

Where's your counterpoint? Or are you just going to go directly to name calling?

LOL, you do realize you started the name calling in your first response to me, right?

Your citing Lott certainly does reinforce your biased outcome claim since he is a gun advocate, put out flawed research and his “more guns, less crime” idea has been pretty much shot down.

You do have to consider the source, I agree, but there are plenty of unbiased studies that suggest gun control works and less guns generally leads to less gun violence. I’m not against guns by the way, and have a concealed carry permit...just saying that to show I don’t have a no guns at all agenda, but prefer to follow the data.

 

[Rightguide]

I think that it's the opposite of that.

I was listening to this podcast the other day, which said that the schooling system is much more stressful for kids nowadays. On the one hand they are constantly measured and under pressure to perform, on the other hand they feel in limbo about their future in an economic system in which they are more likely to become "losers" than "winners."
Add school and online bullying to the picture.

All of this was in existence for every generation of American male. Life in general is much like the above.

It's sometimes harder for boys, because the sense of shame is at odds with their sense of masculinity.
I know how hard my nephews took it when they were rejected and picked on as newcomers to their school. So what did their parents do? They packed their after-hours with sports. They excelled in sports and made frieds there, which also improved both ther self-esteem and their social standing at school.

But not all kids have the advantage of an alternative source of stability and meaning or of support, so it's easy to get lost.

The only thing we see radically different today are boys being encouraged not to be boys or not being allowed to be boys. There's no doubt the schools are harming our male children but there's a lot of parents sitting back and letting it happen too.

 

[bestone4ever]

Don't you wonder why I go after some but not others?

LOL! Yes, because you're trying too hard to show off and you go after people you perceive as weak. Impressive, you are. <--- Star Wars reference, just for you.

 

[beew]

1. All of this was in existence for every generation of American male. Life in general is much like the above.

2. The only thing we see radically different today are boys being encouraged not to be boys or not being allowed to be boys. There's no doubt the schools are harming our male children but there's a lot of parents sitting back and letting it happen too.

2. It could be that too.
I only know about the boys of my family and friends, who are good kids.

And in no way am I excusing those narcissistic brutes (teens or not) who took their hurt and suffering on innocent kids instead of themselves.

I'm hypothesizing and continuing the conversation from where you started it.

Most of these threads are about guns and NRA. We've established that the two parties have irreconcilable views on that. So discussing the other contributing factors seems more interesting.

 

[HisArpy]

LOL, you do realize you started the name calling in your first response to me, right?

Your citing Lott certainly does reinforce your biased outcome claim since he is a gun advocate, put out flawed research and his “more guns, less crime” idea has been pretty much shot down.

You do have to consider the source, I agree, but there are plenty of unbiased studies that suggest gun control works and less guns generally leads to less gun violence. I’m not against guns by the way, and have a concealed carry permit...just saying that to show I don’t have a no guns at all agenda, but prefer to follow the data.

Those "unbiased studies" you're referring to were bought an paid for by ANTI GUN groups or groups with an anti-gun agenda for political purposes.

There are no "unbiased" participants in this debate. The data shows what it shows. EVERYTHING ELSE is a projection from that data. Based on the data, gun control doesn't work because it doesn't target the root of the problem. All it does is shift the problem into other categories and claim that "GUN violence" went down while ignoring the FACT that other types of violence rose. Thus the conclusion is not accurate and those who support it delude themselves.

Your personal anecdotes are meaningless in the overall debate because they are personal choices, not argumentation.

You misunderstood the words in my post in the beginning. Not my problem if your reading comprehension is lacking. Trust me, if I call you names you won't have to wonder if I mean them or not.

 

[Rightguide]

Most of these threads are about guns and NRA. We've established that the two parties have irreconcilable views on that. So discussing the other contributing factors seems more interesting.

And more useful as the NRA has ZERO to do with any of these shootings.