Why Liberals Should Love the 2nd Amendment

Byron In Exile

Frederick Fucking Chopin
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Posts
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Why Liberals Should Love the Second Amendment
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/7/4/881431/-Why-liberals-should-love-the-Second-Amendment
(submitted for your perusal... ~B.)


by Kaili Joy Gray aka Angry Mouse
Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 10:00:03 AM PDT

Liberals love the Constitution.

Ask anyone on the street. They'll tell you the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is a liberal organization. During the dark days of the Bush Administration, membership doubled because so many Americans feared increasing restrictions on their civil liberties. If you were to ask liberals to list their top five complaints about the Bush Administration, and they would invariably say the words "shredding" and "Constitution" in the same sentence. They might also add "Fourth Amendment" and "due process." It's possible they'll talk about "free speech zones" and "habeus corpus."

There's a good chance they will mention, probably in combination with several FCC-prohibited adjectives, former Attorney Generals John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales.

And while liberals certainly do not argue for lawlessness, and will acknowledge the necessity of certain restrictions, it is generally understood that liberals fight to broadly interpret and expand our rights and to question the necessity and wisdom of any restrictions of them.

Liberals can quote legal precedent, news reports, and exhaustive studies. They can talk about the intentions of the Founders. They can argue at length against the tyranny of the government. And they will, almost without exception, conclude the necessity of respecting, and not restricting, civil liberties.

Except for one: the right to keep and bear arms.

When it comes to discussing the Second Amendment, liberals check rational thought at the door. They dismiss approximately 40% of American households that own one or more guns, and those who fight to protect the Second Amendment, as "gun nuts." They argue for greater restrictions. And they pursue these policies at the risk of alienating voters who might otherwise vote for Democrats.

And they do so in a way that is wholly inconsistent with their approach to all of our other civil liberties.

Those who fight against Second Amendment rights cite statistics about gun violence, as if such numbers are evidence enough that our rights should be restricted. But Chicago and Washington DC, the two cities from which came the most recent Supreme Court decisions on Second Amendment rights, had some of the most restrictive laws in the nation, and also some of the highest rates of violent crime. Clearly, such restrictions do not correlate with preventing crime.

So rather than continuing to fight for greater restrictions on Second Amendment rights, it is time for liberals to defend Second Amendment rights as vigorously as they fight to protect all of our other rights. Because it is by fighting to protect each right that we protect all rights.

And this is why:

No. 1: The Bill of Rights protects individual rights.

If you've read the Bill of Rights -- and who among us hasn't? -- you will notice a phrase that appears in nearly all of them: "the people."

First Amendment:

...the right of the people peaceably to assemble

Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Fourth Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...

Ninth Amendment:

...shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people

Tenth Amendment:

...are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Certainly, no good liberal would argue that any of these rights are collective rights, and not individual rights. We believe that the First Amendment is an individual right to criticize our government.

We would not condone a state-regulated news organization. We certainly would not condone state regulation of religion. We talk about "separation of church and state," although there is no mention of "separation of church and state" in the First Amendment.

But we know what they meant. The anti-Federalists refused to ratify the Constitution without a Bill of Rights; they intended for our rights to be interpreted expansively.

We believe the Founders intended for us to be able to say damn near anything we want, protest damn near anything we want, print damn near anything we want, and believe damn near anything we want. Individually, without the interference or regulation of government.

And yet, despite the recent Heller and McDonald decisions, liberals stumble at the idea of the Second Amendment as an individual right. They take the position that the Founders intended an entirely different meaning by the phrase "the right of the people" in the Second Amendment, even though they are so positively clear about what that phrase means in the First Amendment.

If we can agree that the First Amendment protects not only powerful organizations such as the New York Times or MSNBC, but also the individual commenter on the internet, the individual at the anti-war rally, the individual driving the car with the "Fuck Bush" bumper sticker, can we not also agree that the Second Amendment's use of "the people" has the same meaning?

But it's different! The Second Amendment is talking about the militia! If you want to "bear arms," join the National Guard!

Right?

Wrong.

The United States Militia Code:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Aside from the fact that the National Guard did not exist in the 1700s, the term "militia" does not mean "National Guard," even today. The code clearly states that two classes comprise the militia: the National Guard and Naval Militia, and everyone else.

Everyone else. Individuals. The People.

The Founders well understood that the militia is the people, for it was not only the right but the obligation of all citizens to protect and preserve their liberty and to defend themselves from the tyranny of the government.

And fighting against the tyranny of the government is certainly a liberal value.

No. 2: We oppose restrictions to our civil liberties.

All of our rights, even the ones enumerated in the Bill of Rights, are restricted. You can't shout "Fire!" in a crowd. You can't threaten to kill the president. You can't publish someone else's words as your own. We have copyright laws and libel laws and slander laws. We have the FCC to regulate our radio and television content. We have plenty of restrictions on our First Amendment rights.

But we don't like them. We fight them. Any card-carrying member of the ACLU will tell you that while we might agree that certain restrictions are reasonable, we keep a close eye whenever anyone in government gets an itch to pass a new law that restricts our First Amendment rights. Or our Fourth. Or our Fifth, Sixth, or Eighth.

We complain about free speech zones. The whole country is supposed to be a free speech zone, after all. It says so right in the First Amendment.

But when it comes further restrictions on the manufacture, sale, or possession of firearms, liberals are not even silent; they are vociferously in favor of such restrictions.

Suddenly, overly broad restrictions are "reasonable." The Chicago and Washington D.C. bans on handguns -- all handguns -- is reasonable, even though the Supreme Court has now said otherwise.

Would we tolerate such a sweeping regulation of, say, the Thirteenth Amendment?

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

What if a member of Congress -- say, a Republican from a red state in the south -- were to introduce a bill that permits enslaving black women? Would we consider that reasonable? It's not like the law would enslave all people, or even all black people. Just the women. There's no mention of enslaving women in the Thirteenth Amendment. Clearly, when Lincoln wanted to free the slaves, he didn't intend to free all the slaves. And we restrict all the other Amendments, so obviously the Thirteenth Amendment is not supposed to be absolute. What's the big deal?

Except that such an argument is ridiculous, of course. Liberals would take to the streets, send angry letters to their representatives in Washington, organize marches, call progressive radio programs to quote, verbatim, the Thirteenth Amendment. Quite bluntly, although not literally, liberals would be up in arms.

And yet...A ban on all handguns seems reasonable to many liberals. Never mind that of 192 million firearms in America, 65 million -- about one third -- are handguns.

Such a narrow interpretation of this particular right is inconsistent with the otherwise broad interpretation of the Bill of Rights. And just as conservatives weaken their own arguments about protecting the Second Amendment when they will not fight as vigilantly for protecting all the others, so too do liberals weaken their arguments for civil liberties, when they pick and choose which civil liberties they deem worthy of defense.

No. 3: It doesn't matter that it's not 1776 anymore.

When the Founders drafted the Bill of Rights, they could not have imagined machine guns. Or armor-piercing bullets (which are not available to the public anyway, and are actually less lethal than conventional ammunition). Or handguns that hold 18 rounds. A drive-by shooting, back in 1776, would have been a guy on a horse with a musket.

Of course, they couldn't have imagined the internet, either. Or 24-hour cable news networks. Or talk radio. When they drafted the First Amendment, did they really mean to protect the rights of Bill O'Reilly to make incredibly stupid, and frequently inaccurate, statements for an entire hour, five nights a week?

Actually, yes. They did. Bill O'Reilly bilious ravings, and Keith Olbermann's Special Comments, and the insipid chatter of the entire cast of the Today show are, and were intended to be, protected by the First Amendment.

Liberals are supposed to understand that just because we don't agree with something doesn't mean it is not protected. At least when it comes to the First Amendment. And one's personal dislike of guns should be no better a reason for fighting against the Second Amendment than should one's personal dislike of Bill O'Reilly justify fighting against the First Amendment.

And yet, when discussing the Second Amendment, liberals become obtuse in their literalism. The Second Amendment does not protect the right to own all guns. Or all ammunition. It doesn't protect the right of the people as individuals.

Liberals will defend the right of Cindy Sheehan to wear an anti-war T-shirt, even though the First Amendment says nothing about T-shirts.

They will defend the rights of alleged terrorists to a public trial, even though the Founders certainly could not have imagined a world in which terrorists would plot to blow up building with airplanes.

But we do not quibble about the methods by which we practice our First Amendment rights because methodology is not the point. Red herring arguments about types of ammunition or magazine capacity or handguns versus rifles are just that -- red herrings. They distract us from the underlying purpose of that right -- to ensure a free society that can hold its government accountable. The Second Amendment is no more about guns than the First Amendment is about quill pens.

No. 4: It doesn't matter if you can use it.

Fine, you say. Have your big, scary guns. It's not like you actually stand a chance in fighting against the United States government. The Army has bigger, badder weapons than any private citizen. Your most deadly gun is no match for their tanks, their helicopters, their atom bombs. Maybe two hundred years ago, citizens stood a chance in a fight against government, but not today. The Second Amendment is obsolete.

Tell that to the Iraqi "insurgents" who are putting up a pretty good fight against our military might with fairly primitive weapons.

The Second Amendment is obsolete?

What other rights might be considered obsolete in today's day and age?

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

When was the last time a soldier showed up at your door and said, "I'll be staying with you for the indefinite future"?

It's probably been a while. But of course, were it to happen, you'd dust off your Third Amendment and say, "I don't think so, pal."

And you'd be right.

What about the Twenty-Sixth Amendment? How much use does that get?

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

We all know the youth vote is typically pretty abysmal. Those lazy kids can barely get out of bed before noon, let alone get themselves to the voting booth. If they're not going to use their Twenty-Sixth Amendment rights, shouldn't we just delete the damn thing altogether?

Hell no. And this is why liberals work so hard to get out and rock the vote -- to encourage citizens to exercise their rights. That is our obligation as citizens, to protect against the government infringing upon our rights by making full use of them.

And yet, when it comes to the Second Amendment, liberals do not fight to protect that right. Instead them demand more laws. Regulate, regulate, regulate -- until the Second Amendment is nearly regulated out of existence because no one needs to have a gun anyway.

And that, sadly, is the biggest mistake of all.

No. 5: The Second Amendment is about revolution.

In no other country, at no other time, has such a right existed. It is not the right to hunt. It is not the right to shoot at soda cans in an empty field. It is not even the right to shoot at a home invader in the middle of the night.

It is the right of revolution.

Let me say that again: It is the right of revolution.

Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government.

To alter or abolish the government. These are not mild words; they are powerful. They are revolutionary.

The Founders might never have imagined automatic weapons. But they probably also never imagined a total ban on handguns either.

We talk about the First Amendment as a unique and revolutionary concept -- that we have the right to criticize our government. Does it matter whether we do so while standing on a soapbox on the corner of the street or on a blog? No. Because the concept, not the methodology, is what matters.

And the Second Amendment is no different. It is not about how much ammunition is "excessive" or what types of guns are and are not permissible. Liberals cling to such minutia at the expense of understanding and appreciating the larger concept that underlies this right.

So.

What is the point? Is this a rallying cry for liberals to rush right out and purchase a gun? Absolutely not. Guns are dangerous when used by people who are not trained to use them, just as cars are dangerous when driven by people who have not been taught how to drive.

No, this is a rallying cry for the Bill of Rights -- for all of our rights.

This is an appeal to every liberal who says, "I just don't like guns."

This is an appeal to every liberal who says, "No one needs that much ammunition."

This is an appeal to every liberal who says, "That's not what the Founders meant."

This is an appeal to every liberal who supports the ACLU.

This is an appeal to every liberal who has complained about the Bush Administration's trading of our civil liberties for the illusion of greater security. (I believe I’ve seen a T-shirt or two about Benjamin Franklin’s thoughts on that.)

This is an appeal to every liberal who believes in fighting against the abuses of government, against the infringement of our civil liberties, and for the greater expansion of our rights.

This is an appeal to every liberal who never wants to lose another election to Republicans because they have successfully persuaded the voters that Democrats will not protect their Second Amendment rights.

This is an appeal to liberals, not merely to tolerate the Second Amendment, but to embrace it. To love it and defend it and guard it as carefully as you do all the others.

Because we are liberals. And fighting for our rights -- for all of our rights, for all people -- is what we do.

Because we are revolutionaries.
 
Libs hate the second amendment, but they want their body guards to carry guns.
 
Only the convoluted logic of the American liberal would find, in a catalog of constraints against the government infringement of personal liberty, an Amendment that allows them to keep and bear arms; though such power already exist in the original body of the Constitution, and therefore needs no amendment.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Oh, calm the hell down.

I was an ACLU member, myself, until, one day, a got a letter asking me to send them money for an anti-gun campaign.

That was when I thought... "Is this organization really about freedom?"

So I wrote them this in response:



June 20, 1994

American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California

1616 Beverly Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90026


Dear Friends of Liberty,

Having received your moving letter concerning the flood of guns in which our society is awash, and being, like most Americans these days, frightened nearly into coronary spasms by the crescendo of violence that has saturated my television and newspapers due to our national gun problem, I was all ready to write you a big fat check when I thought I remembered, dimly, some comments made by our country's founders on the subject. A quick check of some dusty old books I hadn't opened in years revealed shocking evidence that your assertions concerning the Second Amendment are exactly the reverse of what is true.

Knowing your concern for our Liberties to be genuine, as I do, I am certain that your letter would have expressed a very different conclusion had you had the facts at your disposal. However, there are those, as you are well aware, who doubt your motives and would seize upon this innocent mistake as an opportunity to accuse your organization of deliberately spreading falsehood.

Here are some brief excerpts which may serve to illuminate the mistakes in your letter, and aid you in re-aligning your group with the founding principles of our nation:

"We established, however, some, although not all its [self-government's] important principles... that all power is inherent in the people; that... they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press..."
- Thomas Jefferson to Major Cartwright, June 1824

"Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense..." - John Adams

"The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. ... Little more can reasonably be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped.

"But if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist. …

"Where in the name of common sense are our fears to end if we cannot trust our sons, our brothers, our fellow-citizens?"
- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist No. 29

"Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
- James Madison, The Federalist No. 46

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American."
- Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, 1788

I am sure you are now as shocked as I was to learn that the intent behind the Second Amendment was exactly the opposite of what was asserted in your recent letter. I could provide many more such statements by our country's founders, but I'm sure that with your resources and research capabilities, and especially now that you are aware of this surprising fact, your campaign to educate lawmakers will find limitless ammunition in the writings of Washington, Adams, Hamilton, and Jefferson with which to combat those who would violate for transient causes freedoms that Americans have fought and died for to preserve for generations.

I look forward with happy anticipation to your next mailing, and to the opportunity which I do not doubt will be afforded me to support an organization committed to defending not just nine-tenths of the Bill of Rights, nor one-tenth for hunters and sportsmen, but all rights of all Americans, in all circumstances, at all times.

Sincerely, Byron



I did receive a response, but it was basically a form letter.

They never sent me any solicitations for funds after that.
 
Though I be a granola eating, tofu-loving, tree-hugger soul, I do like my guns and rifles. Thus the Second Amendment. Just seems so right and logical. Sorry I haven't anything astute to write.
 
Though I be a granola eating, tofu-loving, tree-hugger soul, I do like my guns and rifles. Thus the Second Amendment. Just seems so right and logical. Sorry I haven't anything astute to write.

Me either.

daaad347.jpg
 
Ooo

Ahh.

*feeling too exhausted to go to the gun safe to take pictures, so I could share, too*

I could take a picture of my ammo though... *grins*

I reload mine, so too much ammo to picture.

175669f9.jpg
9cde3713.jpg
 
Golly.

Been way too long since we went to the range.

Sweet, very sweet photos, K Bear.
 
Though I be a granola eating, tofu-loving, tree-hugger soul, I do like my guns and rifles. Thus the Second Amendment. Just seems so right and logical. Sorry I haven't anything astute to write.
This is no country for unarmed people.
 
But tell that to the Brits, whose country is packed with armed bobbies, nightsticks at the ready, fully able to defend the populace against grizzly bears, foxes, and Mexicans with automatic weapons.
 
But tell that to the Brits, whose country is packed with armed bobbies, nightsticks at the ready, fully able to defend the populace against grizzly bears, foxes, and Mexicans with automatic weapons.

Armed with tazers, too.

I suspect the foxes have been looking for the opportunity of a weaponless citizenry for quite the while. Time for some payback.

We are the untamed barbarians holding on to the last vestiges of freedom out here in the backwaters of the world.
 
I wouldn't say "Liberals" - I think there is a world of difference between "Liberals" and "Progressives."

Liberals are statists, they are elitists, they are ready to sacrifice the rights of individuals on their sanctimonious altars.

Sam Smith recently wrote about this on Counterpunch:

Progressives oppose the war on drugs, America’s most masochistic and deadly battle since Vietnam. Liberals treat it with utter indifference...

Progressives respect state and local government; liberals often act like they're a Republican plot. Progressives understand the importance of the devolution of power to the lowest practical level.

Progressives worry about locked doors, liberals about glass ceilings, which is why liberals thought Obama's election would create a post-racial society.Too many liberals are infatuated with symbolism such as electing a black president, while ignoring the real problems most minorities face in everything from the job market to dealing with the law.

Even progressives who don't own guns respect the right of others to do. Besides, why piss them off the way liberals have done, when they could be allies on a host of other issues, beginning with civil liberties.

But then, progressives still defend civil liberties. Liberals seem to have forgotten about them and ignore Obama's abuse of them.

You see the same thing on the so-called Right: real conservatives and Libertarians, people who espouse actual beliefs, people like Ron Paul or Pat Buchanan, are marginalized; the Right is dominated by corporatist propaganda mouthpieces in the media and their equally subservient bitches in government.

These are the sellouts and traitors who are owned by the banking cartel, the war profiteers, and the energy trust: Bush, Hannity, neocons, Rush, etc.

Your point that "Liberals" should embrace the 2nd Amendment is not possible - Liberals support totalitarian government as eagerly as do Republicans. They are all varying shades of totalitarian - fascist, communist, hardly matters.

All this Left - Right dichotomy is nonsense, used to distract from the real problem, which is Up vs. Down, Rich waging unending war against the Poor.

Again, here is another recent article, this time from Dissident Voice -- Don't Fear the Right -- that speaks to that point:

We need to find ways to ally with the grassroots right, whether in tea parties, militias, or elsewhere. As Hedges says, “Hope in this age of bankrupt capitalism will come with the return of the language of class conflict.” Yes, there are some uglies out there in the white working class. There are some racists, but racism been the issue for the working class in America since the beginning.

Former congresswoman and Green Party presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney told Hedges, “I am a child of the South. [Head of DHS] Janet Napolitano tells me I need to be afraid of people who are labeled white supremacists, but I was raised around white supremacists. I am not afraid of white supremacists. I am concerned about my own government. The Patriot Act did not come from white supremacists, it came from the White House and Congress. The Citizens United decision [granting corporations full political personhood] did not come from white supremacists; it came from the Supreme Court. I am willing to reach across traditional barriers that have been skillfully constructed by people who benefit from the way the system is organized.”

She is absolutely right and fearless about it.

Finally I would commend Chris Hedges' older but still must-read piece called "Liberals Are Useless" that shows just why the working class of this country has turned on the pampered elites who call themselves Liberals, and those foolish enough to follow their icons.

It comes down to betrayal:

Anyone who says he or she cares about the working class in this country should have walked out on the Democratic Party in 1994 with the passage of NAFTA. And it has only been downhill since. If welfare reform, the 1999 Financial Services Modernization Act, which gutted the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act—designed to prevent the kind of banking crisis we are now undergoing—and the craven decision by the Democratic Congress to continue to fund and expand our imperial wars were not enough to make you revolt, how about the refusal to restore habeas corpus, end torture in our offshore penal colonies, abolish George W. Bush’s secrecy laws or halt the warrantless wiretapping and monitoring of American citizens? The imperial projects and the corporate state have not altered under Obama. The state kills as ruthlessly and indiscriminately in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan as it did under Bush. It steals from the U.S. treasury as rapaciously to enrich the corporate elite.

Liberals have surrendered their credibility, sold it to the corporations for a cushy job and a scolding tone of voice. Progressives carry on the necessary work of speaking truth and defying power.
 
The United States Militia Code:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Aside from the fact that the National Guard did not exist in the 1700s, the term "militia" does not mean "National Guard," even today. The code clearly states that two classes comprise the militia: the National Guard and Naval Militia, and everyone else.

I've done some research on that statute, and, so far as I have been able to determine, not only is there no case law whatsoever construing it, but it has never, ever been used. Why it even exists is a mystery.
 
I've done some research on that statute, and, so far as I have been able to determine, not only is there no case law whatsoever construing it, but it has never, ever been used. Why it even exists is a mystery.
Perhaps, not directly used, but I carry a Vietnam Era Draft card in my wallet that ways it HAS been used. The definition of who constitutes the militia of the United States defines who is subject to "Call Up The Militia," The selective service act (and subsequent modifications) just establishes procedures for calling up the militia, but Title 10 is the legal foundation for enacting those procedures and regulations.
 
Perhaps, not directly used, but I carry a Vietnam Era Draft card in my wallet that ways it HAS been used. The definition of who constitutes the militia of the United States defines who is subject to "Call Up The Militia," The selective service act (and subsequent modifications) just establishes procedures for calling up the militia, but Title 10 is the legal foundation for enacting those procedures and regulations.

If that's true, it ought to be repealed.
 
If Cynthia McKinney is your best spokesperson, it suggests it's time to get some new spokespeople.
 
I'm all in favor of the 2nd Amendment. It should be every person's right to arm themselves as they see fit, for protection against those that wish them harm - be it lions and tigers and bears, their neighbors, their rulers or zee Germans.

That being said...

People who feel affection towards guns are sick in the head.
 
Arguing the meaning of 'militia' is meaningless. The phrase in which the term is contained is meaningless as far as the reading of the amendment to begin with.

The 'right' belongs to the people as a whole, the SCOTUS has ruled as such. Even Laurence Tribe, the Harvard darling of the left, has opined the same.

Ishmael
 
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