"Fantasy" VS "fantasy"

[Djmac1031]

Just some musings really...

Let's face it: all my stories are fantasies. More specifically, sex fantasies, obviously.

But what I wanna delve into are my few attempts at Fantasy, with a capital F.

IE stories that go beyond "guy meets girl."

My very first foray into the Fantasy genre was The White Room, about two strangers that wake up naked in what turns out to be an alien testing lab.

I posted that in Sci Fi / Fantasy, of course, and despite being told it's a "low read" catagory, it got a great response.

My second attempt at Fantasy was The Devil And Angel Em; the story of a self centered man who sells his soul to the Devil, only to later renegotiate. The cost to get his soul back? Seduce a beautiful young Nun.

That one was a collaboration with @EmilyMiller, and an excuse for me to write something very different when it came to the sex stuff.

I originally considered posting it in SF/F but due to the nature of the sex went with BDSM instead.

While the story has a great rating and lovely feedback, it didn’t get a lot of views, let alone readers.

In retrospect I think it was a mistake to post it in BDSM.

It's not a HARDCORE BDSM tale, and perhaps categorizing it as such threw off fans of that genre.

My third attempt at a Fantasy tale was Pornville; the story of an amateur porn writer waking up in the world of the stories he created and being forced to live them out.

I threw in so many variables with the sex stuff, some more detailed while others only briefly mentioned, but wound up putting it in EC instead of SF/F which again, I now regret.

Again, great rating, nice comments. But really not a lot of readers.

I can't help but wonder if the Average Reader was put off by the last two having a Fantasy premise, whereas if I'd have posted them in SF/F I would have at least drawn a crowd that appreciates the more otherworldly Fantasy elements.

Part of me wishes I could go back and publish those two under SF/F and see what the response would have been, whether I'd have gotten a larger audience or not.

I guess I just have to consider it a lesson learned.

Curious if anyone else has had similar experiences, or your thoughts as a reader.

I suppose I get it: if someone isn't into Fantasy stories, stuff with magic or aliens or whatever, and they stumble on one in a different category, they're probably just gonna bail, right?

Whereas a Fantasy reader would at least be seeking those stories out specifically.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

My favorite category. In my opinion, there are plenty of readers from all categories who will read some standalone stories with a touch of fantasy in them - some magical ring that makes people horny, a magical lamp that fulfills desires, a story set on some spaceship without delving into the worldbuilding itself, and so on. That story should have no problem finding the audience no matter in which category you put it.
Then there are some more hardcore SciFi&Fantasy readers who love long series and expect interesting characters, ample worldbuilding, plenty of fantasy or sci-fi elements, and so on. What is even more interesting is that, in my experience, they are even willing to ignore the sex parts and forgive the sexual content that isn't to their liking, as long as you deliver with the fantasy or sci-fi story. There aren't that many of them, but it is still a respectable number.

 

[Djmac1031]

My favorite category. In my opinion, there are plenty of readers from all categories who will read some standalone stories with a touch of fantasy in them - some magical ring that makes people horny, a magical lamp that fulfills desires, a story set on some spaceship without delving into the worldbuilding itself, and so on. That story should have no problem finding the audience no matter in which category you put it.
Then there are some more hardcore SciFi&Fantasy readers who love long series and expect interesting characters, ample worldbuilding, plenty of fantasy or sci-fi elements, and so on. What is even more interesting is that, in my experience, they are even willing to ignore the sex parts and forgive the sexual content that isn't to their liking, as long as you deliver with the fantasy or sci-fi story. There aren't that many of them, but it is still a respectable number.

I agree, I know I myself wouldn't make a thing over finding a "Fantasy" story published in a non Fantasy catagory.

I'm just thinking my targeting was off. With The Devil And Angel Em, I tried to target the BDSM crowd even though, when you boil the story down, it's not REALLY a BDSM story in the traditional sense.

And I think I had some bad luck in the timing when I published Pornville. It had a really strong start but got buried quickly to the back pages under a bunch of new stories published the next day.

I don't wanna come of as complaining; "oh woe as me, no one read my stories."

I have other non Fantasy stories with low views as well.

Just musing over my marketing approach I suppose.

We all want our stories read, and besides writing (what we at least hope is) a good story, we then gotta market it to the right audience, right?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I agree, I know I myself wouldn't make a thing over finding a "Fantasy" story published in a non Fantasy catagory.

I'm just thinking my targeting was off. With The Devil And Angel Em, I tried to target the BDSM crowd even though, when you boil the story down, it's not REALLY a BDSM story in the traditional sense.

And I think I had some bad luck in the timing when I published Pornville. It had a really strong start but got buried quickly to the back pages under a bunch of new stories published the next day.

I don't wanna come of as complaining; "oh woe as me, no one read my stories."

I have other non Fantasy stories with low views as well.

Just musing over my marketing approach I suppose.

We all want our stories read, and besides writing (what we at least hope is) a good story, we then gotta market it to the right audience, right?

I understand the sentiment, and yeah, not all categories are equally friendly. Sci-Fi&Fantasy is definitely one of the friendlier categories here. My "The Apprentice" series still has quite decent scores, even though it is considerably "femdom" themed in the sexual sense. In my experience, femdom is far, far less popular than maledom, but this is one of the categories where that fact doesn't have a huge impact in the sense of scores. The number of views is a whole different story though

 

[Bramblethorn]

My limited experience lines up with others here - SF/F is a relatively easy-going category in terms of crossover and genre expectations, readers are much less likely to complain "you put X in my Y!" than other categories where you might expect "you put Y in my X!"

 

[Djmac1031]

My limited experience lines up with others here - SF/F is a relatively easy-going category in terms of crossover and genre expectations, readers are much less likely to complain "you put X in my Y!" than other categories where you might expect "you put Y in my X!"

That makes sense.

It's far easier to target other categories, Incest, LW etc.

Put a story in those categories, readers know exactly what to expect.

But, back to my personal example, writing a Fantasy story but putting it in BDSM was probably the wrong move.

The BDSM crowd didn't go for it, meanwhile Fantasy readers who might have actually enjoyed it skipped it because the catagory threw them off.

But yeah I'd be willing to bet Fantasy readers would have read it if it was in the proper catagory regardless of the sex acts depicted which, frankly, we're tame compared to most BDSM lol.

 

[EmilyMiller]

FWIW - I’m having a lot of fun with Fantasy : Non-human in an / kinda way.

It’s almost sexy without trying,

Em

 

[Djmac1031]

FWIW - I’m having a lot of fun with Fantasy : Non-human in an / kinda way.

It’s almost sexy without trying,

Em

You know I'm a huge fan. Eagerly waiting for you to finish the new one.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Looking at the stories in question, I would suggest they’ve done pretty well, both in terms of readers and scores. There are a lot of people here who would be thrilled. Putting it another way, they look like well-received tales with solid plots and such. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

 

[Djmac1031]

Looking at the stories in question, I would suggest they’ve done pretty well, both in terms of readers and scores. There are a lot of people here who would be thrilled. Putting it another way, they look like well-received tales with solid plots and such. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

Oh, I'm not. Again this isn't some pity party.

Because you're right, both stories were very well received by those who actually read them.

It's more about just finding a wider audience I guess and second guessing my choices on where I published them.

And just trying to figure out the reception to the Fantasy style story in general. Because I'm considering a few more and thinking from now on just committing them to Fantasy instead of trying to cross market them.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You know I'm a huge fan. Eagerly waiting for you to finish the new one.

Haven’t had time to write in ages. But I’ll get there .

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

fantasy:

"I will take the ring, though I do not know the way." (JRR Tolkien)

Fantasy:

"Every man has a place
In his heart, there's a space
And the world can't erase his fantasies
Take a ride in the sky
On our ship, fantasy
All your dreams will come true right away" (Earth, Wind & Fire)

 

[Seadog777]

As a reader..... I do not go out of my way to read them. I do not go out of my way to not read them either. I've never really had "fantasies" of fairies, werewolves, vampires, etc, etc.
I treat stories of this genre, like I do all the other ones.
If you don't capture me on Page 1, I do not continue to page 2.

On the other hand..... I'm a god damn man, of course I've had "fantasies" of being with 2 women or a celebrity.
That's simply human nature.

 

[RejectReality]

Anything with sci-fi/fantasy elements will struggle outside those categories. It's simply not what people are looking for in the mainstream categories.

On the flip side, the readers in the fantasy categories are far more tolerant of wide-ranging kinks than is common elsewhere. You can slip in incest, ( GoT, anyone? ) non-con, weird fetishes, and even GM/Bi Male without losing a significant portion of the audience. Readers are willing to skip over sex scenes that don't turn their crank so long as the story surrounding them continues to be engaging. They by and large heed content warnings rather than using them as rallying points for attacks, as is common in some other categories.

Sci-Fi/fantasy should be considered a trump IMO. It's a small readership when compared with most categories, but you'll instantly lose so many people in the real world categories with anything short of a masterpiece that it's practically a wash.

 

[Djmac1031]

Anything with sci-fi/fantasy elements will struggle outside those categories. It's simply not what people are looking for in the mainstream categories.

On the flip side, the readers in the fantasy categories are far more tolerant of wide-ranging kinks than is common elsewhere. You can slip in incest, ( GoT, anyone? ) non-con, weird fetishes, and even GM/Bi Male without losing a significant portion of the audience. Readers are willing to skip over sex scenes that don't turn their crank so long as the story surrounding them continues to be engaging. They by and large heed content warnings rather than using them as rallying points for attacks, as is common in some other categories.

Sci-Fi/fantasy should be considered a trump IMO. It's a small readership when compared with most categories, but you'll instantly lose so many people in the real world categories with anything short of a masterpiece that it's practically a wash.

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well.

Maybe my stories would have had the same response / number of readers if I'd posted them under Fantasy, but ultimately I think I did them a disservice by not posting them there.

I've considered at least changing the catagory and resubmitting them.

I suppose it can't hurt, although I think it's probably too late for that.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Sci-Fi/fantasy should be considered a trump IMO. It's a small readership when compared with most categories, but you'll instantly lose so many people in the real world categories with anything short of a masterpiece that it's practically a wash.

Agreed, which makes the challenge one of writing well enough to keep them happy.

I too have a dream.

 

[PennameWombat]

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well.

Maybe my stories would have had the same response / number of readers if I'd posted them under Fantasy, but ultimately I think I did them a disservice by not posting them there.

I've considered at least changing the catagory and resubmitting them.

I suppose it can't hurt, although I think it's probably too late for that.

It doesn’t get ’resubmitted,’ it simply gets moved into the new Category. Doesn’t go in as ‘New’ and carries existing stats. But I’ve moved a handful of stories to different categories, and in a couple of cases it did help on scores a bit, after time. Not much on view trajectory.

Another aspect of F&SF is if it’s a good story that fits the category, minimal sexual content doesn’t bother readers. I warned readers on one of my Winter Holidays entries that there was almost no explicit sex and it remains one of my higher rated stories.

 

[alohadave]

Doesn’t go in as ‘New’ and carries existing stats.

My experience is that when my story changed categories, it was placed on the new list. It got a ton of new views from it. It kept all the stats and comments.

It may be that it's because I had submitted a sequel to it at the same time I requested the category change, and they both posted at the same time.

 

[Djmac1031]

My experience is that when my story changed categories, it was placed on the new list. It got a ton of new views from it. It kept all the stats and comments.

It may be that it's because I had submitted a sequel to it at the same time I requested the category change, and they both posted at the same time.

I may try a catagory change just for the hell of it; I try not to submit edits too often just to fix some silly mistake or something, but as long as it doesn't change the existing status of the story, it can't hurt.

I'll make to to put a note for the administrator and make sure it's not a problem.