"Because it's there."

[MisterEdMe]

Common sense is a mythical thing that stupid people such as yourself made up to make themselves feel better and to pull out of thier asses when they felt overwhelmed by the intelligence of others, so they could rave on about "educated fools".

Point taken. But your arguement is right in line with those whom feel they possess a superior intellect and allways feel the need to quote some 'General' overused phrase or metaphor. Often the original authors are fine people whose quotes are poorly used by others. Most persons with common sense try to keep it at a comfortable level for 'ALL' involved so as not to offend others. But if it makes you happy we'll change the words 'common sense' to 'generation stupid' so you too can be included.

Unlike yourself, I never assume my intelligence is above others. Being right or wrong is not the point: throwing it into someone elses face is rather stupendous and arrogant. The 'lording' of intellectual knowledge is often prompted by someone whom has no others means to contribute or feels intimidated in someway. It's often best to stay on point of the subject instead of focusing on the ASSUMED background of an individual whom only means well. Let's try to stay in the 'Big Picture' and not just parts of it.

 

[MisterEdMe]

heh.

i bet you've adopted the dog from the pound that no one else wanted, at some point in your life, too.

I like this response.

 

[Peregrinator]

To contrast with the above, climbing can be pretty casual and relaxing. This is a pic I took of a couple former colleagues. The one who's pulling hard willl be happy if he can climb to the point where he has his hands on top of the rock, where the other one is lying. He's attempting a "boulder problem," a couple or three very hard moves from a sitting start. Bouldering can be a great way to while away an afternoon with friends, chatting, smack-talking, learning a new way of moving, getting stronger and better, chilling in the great outdoors, and not relying too much on equipment. A pair of climbing shoes is really the only essential if you stay near the ground. Chalk to help your hands stay dry is a good idea, too, and if you decide to go for some "high-ball" problems--say, climbing so your feet are head height or higher--you should have a "crash pad" as well, a sort of mattress designed to keep your ankles from breaking. Some boulderers use toothbrushes and such to clean off holds as well, especially in popular areas where a kind of gunky paste made of sweat and chalk can build up. Otherwise, bouldering is what you make it; there are no rules other than survivng to drink a beer at the end of the day.

 

[Peregrinator]

I like this response.

Me. too.

 

[MisterEdMe]

I do okay. I'm not sure how to demonstrate that to you in a post. I don't tend to climb above my ability, and I don't ever think a summit is more important than a safe descent. I'm willing to back off, to stop short, to bag the whole thing if the weather or conditions are bad. If you have a specific question that will serve as a yardstick, I'm more than happy to answer.

OK. Now I see what your getting at. I apologize for the common sense pun.
Originally, I was thinking of the phrase 'Because It's There' in general terms. As in mankinds unswerving desire to conquer, analyze, control, etc. Like, Why do we climb mountains?' or Why go to the moon? = Because it's there.

 

[Peregrinator]

OK. Now I see what your getting at. I apologize for the common sense pun.
Originally, I was thinking of the phrase 'Because It's There' in general terms. As in mankinds unswerving desire to conquer, analyze, control, etc. Like, Why do we climb mountains?' or Why go to the moon? = Because it's there.

Meh, that was a bon mot uttered by a famous climber in an age when climbing was a fairly marginal endeavor. Some journalist asked him why he wanted to climb Everest.


I see what you mean, and actually I agree; mankind does seem to have an innate drive to be first, to boldly go where no man has gone before, to conquer. Philosophical positions emphasizing peace and harmony are quickly marginalized, as peace activists are in Iraq.

 

[MisterEdMe]

A) I'm sure Taltos was kidding. Sofa-itis=sitting on the sofa.

B) I agree with you and I admire your attitude.

I now agree with you on 'A'. Sometimes I take things too literally. And thanks on 'B'

 

[Peregrinator]

I now agree with you on 'A'. Sometimes I take things too literally. And thanks on 'B'

Lol. I like that you're so quick to recognise when you've made a mistake. I was just admiring your quick reconciliation in ourladyofthehighways's "IM" thread.

 

[John Doe]

Point taken. But your arguement is right in line with those whom feel they possess a superior intellect and allways feel the need to quote some 'General' overused phrase or metaphor. Often the original authors are fine people whose quotes are poorly used by others. Most persons with common sense try to keep it at a comfortable level for 'ALL' involved so as not to offend others. But if it makes you happy we'll change the words 'common sense' to 'generation stupid' so you too can be included.

Unlike yourself, I never assume my intelligence is above others. Being right or wrong is not the point: throwing it into someone elses face is rather stupendous and arrogant. The 'lording' of intellectual knowledge is often prompted by someone whom has no others means to contribute or feels intimidated in someway. It's often best to stay on point of the subject instead of focusing on the ASSUMED background of an individual whom only means well. Let's try to stay in the 'Big Picture' and not just parts of it.

Actually I do posses a superior intellect, and if you'de read even a small amount of my or just about any of the other regular posters' comments, you'd realize that all that shit you just spewed is nonsense.

I don't assume my intelligence is above all others, just yours.

 

[MisterEdMe]

Meh, that was a bon mot uttered by a famous climber in an age when climbing was a fairly marginal endeavor. Some journalist asked him why he wanted to climb Everest.


I see what you mean, and actually I agree; mankind does seem to have an innate drive to be first, to boldly go where no man has gone before, to conquer. Philosophical positions emphasizing peace and harmony are quickly marginalized, as peace activists are in Iraq.

Hah! I often wondered where that phrase came from and why it came to be so useful at times. Who was the climber? (My recall on history is a little rusty here). Star Trek was the first time it actually caught my attention and stuck to me. It's one of my favorite quotes.

 

[Peregrinator]

The sport of ice climbing developed over a couple centuries, from people walking up steep snow slopes to folks wanting to move over gentle icy patches to more rigorous ascents that required chopping steps into a steep slope to the modern technique of "front-pointing," familiar to most people. The place in the US where ice climbing began was on the flow shown in this picture, a climb known as Pinnacle Gulley on Mt Washington in NH. Resizing assistance gratefully accepted....

 

[Peregrinator]

Hah! I often wondered where that phrase came from and why it came to be so useful at times. Who was the climber? (My recall on history is a little rusty here). Star Trek was the first time it actually caught my attention and stuck to me. It's one of my favorite quotes.

I meant "because it's there," which was uttered by George Mallory. As far as I know, the famous split infinitive came from Star Trek.

 

[MisterEdMe]

Actually I do posses a superior intellect, and if you'de read even a small amount of my or just about any of the other regular posters' comments, you'd realize that all that shit you just spewed is nonsense.

I don't assume my intelligence is above all others, just yours.

You just both proved and missed my point. (sigh). Let's just agree to disagree. Obviously neither of us are going to budge on this. But it would make a good survey, huh?

 

[John Doe]

You just both proved and missed my point. (sigh). Let's just agree to disagree. Obviously neither of us are going to budge on this. But it would make a good survey, huh?

'tard.

 

[Peregrinator]

Hueco Tanks State Historic Park in Texas is a classic climbing destination with a cautionary tale for climbers. For a long time it was the wintering spot for the hardcore dedicated "dirtbag" climber, the type who lives in his car and does a little work here and there to earn enough money to climb hard. It's mostly know for its amazing bouldering, shown below, and its perfect weather and easy access. However, several years ago, a big section of the park was closed to bouldering, a result of the abuses of climbers and what was seen as historically important terrain. Some sections are only accessible with a guide now. A great climbing resource was lost to the community, probably irretrievably. What's known as "Access Issues," times and situations when a place to climb is off-limits to climbers, are increasingly common as climbing gains popularity. Many land-owners are reticent to let people climb on their property, understandably concerned about impact and litigation in case of accidents. Climbers have the option to contribute to The Access Fund, a non-profit advocacy organisation which works to preserve or gain access by negotiating with landowners and through education of climbers and non-climbers alike.

 

[Peregrinator]

Climbers make a distinction between "aid" and "free" climbing. In this pic a climber is practicing aid climbing on a boulder somewhere. You can see the rope from his harness running through the bolt below him, which will keep him safe if he should fall. In order to make upward progress, he's employing a pair of "etriers," sort of short rope ladders. He clipped the lower one to a bolt and climbed up it until he could reach up and clip the other one to the higher bolt. In the picture, he's in the middle of transferring his weight from the lower one to the higher one. Once he's on the higher one, he'll unclip the lower one and climb until he can clip it higher. At some point soon, he'll pull the rope up and clip it through the next bolt, so he won't fall any further than absolutely necessary. This technique is usually employed on faces that are too steep--overhanging in this case--or smooth to "free climb."

 

[Peregrinator]

Here we see a climber leading a traditionally-protected free climb. He's making upward progress only with his hands and feet--so, not aid climbing--but still is roped up for protection in case of a fall. he is using "traditional protection," aka "trad climbing," which means that as he climbs, he "places pro" whenever he can. After placing a piece, he attaches a couple of carabiners seperated by a loop of webbing, and clips the rope through it, so if he falls, the last piece becomes a high anchor and catches him. There are a couple of psychological games here; will the pro he placed hold him in case of a fall, and how far will he fall? If the last piece of pro is at your feet, you will fall your body height plus a little rope stretch. If you climb ten feet above your last piece, you'll fall a little more than twenty feet. That's called "running it out," a gamble taken by climbers occasionally, either because they are totally comfortable on the terrain, or because they're trying to climb faster, or because the rock doesn't offer any place to put stuff.

 

[Peregrinator]

For a long time, you either placed protection, or you climbed without it, or you didn't climb. The idea of drilling a hole in the rock and placing a bolt in it for protection arose slowly, and was castigated by some climbers as unethical, but is quite prevalent now. It allowed people to stop worrying about protection--bolts are generally "bombproof"--and focus on the movement of climbing. The rise of bolted routes allowed climbers to climb much harder than had been done thus far except by really elite athletes, and was responsible for the kind of climbing now known as "sport climbing," in which the point is not so much to get to the top of a cliff or mountain as to accomplish a supremely difficult challenge. Some sport routes take radically overhanging lines or ascend stretches of impossibly-blank-looking slabs.

 

[Peregrinator]

Arguably the safest form of climbing is toproping, in which there is an anchor at the top of the cliff. The rope runs from the climber to the top of the cliff to the ground. Properly managed, a climber who falls on top rope will only fall a few inches, as much as the rope stretches. Top ropining is almost universally the way beginners prsctice, and is also used by high-end climbers who are "rehearsing" a climb prior to leading it--described above--or soloing it--described below. Top roping is also used by many climbers just to go out and have a casual day at a crag, playing with movement, trying a climb that's a little beyond their ability.

 

[Peregrinator]

For a few elite climbers--and in some cases less capable ones--"free soloing" is another expression of the climbing game. You, the rock, a pair of shoes, and a chalk bag. Falling means death or serious injury. There is an awesome purity of challenge to free soloing, as well as an appearance of being a member of some sort of lunatic fringe. It's often overlooked that to an elite climber, moderate terrain that would present a challenge to a medium-talent hack like me is no more difficult than walking to the rest of us. For the elite, the true level of risk in free soloing a realtively easy climb is actually quite low.

 

[Moonlust]

For a few elite climbers--and in some cases less capable ones--"free soloing" is another expression of the climbing game. You, the rock, a pair of shoes, and a chalk bag. Falling means death or serious injury. There is an awesome purity of challenge to free soloing, as well as an appearance of being a member of some sort of lunatic fringe. It's often overlooked that to an elite climber, moderate terrain that would present a challenge to a medium-talent hack like me is no more difficult than walking to the rest of us. For the elite, the true level of risk in free soloing a realtively easy climb is actually quite low.

Thinking about this makes my hands sweat a little. Does anyone spot you at the bottom or top, so they can at least tell where the body flops off to if you fall?

Edin: I need a widescreen monitor for this thread.

 

[Peregrinator]

Soloing ice climbs can be seen as safer than soloing rock by some; every time your ice tool goes "Thunk," you essentially are protected from falling. Crampons, the spiky things on your feet are really secure as well. One danger inherent to ice climbing which is less of a concern than on rock is that ice is a highly changeable medium; it breaks, melts, drips, pieces of it fall on you, it freezes and can be really hard to whach a tool into.

 

[Jennifer Kaye]

The words of great climber George Leigh Mallory, asked by a reporter why he wanted to climb Mt Everest. perhaps the most famous quote ever on climbing, and certainly the one that gets the most play among non-climbers.

In this thread, I will attempt to answer your questions about the craft of moving on technically challenging terrain in the mountains. Rock, Ice, Snow, Altitude...what do you want to know?

I started rock climbing a little over ten years ago, actually the week of the Oklahoma City bombing, by taking four days of lessons with other litsters and great friends atmas and HungryJoe. I started ice climbing maybe a year or two later, and I've been hiking all my life; I've climbed some technical snow and some high stuff. I certainly don't know it all, but I like it, and I like to talk about it.

Ask away.

I am scared to death that my son will take up such activities. My fear is that he will fall and get seriously injured or die, which would absolutely devistate me. Is it so wrong of me to in no way encourage him to take up such extreme / dangerous activities?

 

[Peregrinator]

Thinking about this makes my hands sweat a little. Does anyone spot you at the bottom or top, so they can at least tell where the body flops off to if you fall?

Edin: I need a widescreen monitor for this thread.

I didn't think anyone was reading all this stuff.

Spotting someone who's more than ten feet or so off the ground is generally a no-no; when they land on you there's not a helluva lot you can do about it. It's sort of up to the individual, but it's always good practice to let someone know where you're going and what you plan to do. I only very, very rarely solo anything; it's terrifying.

Sorry about the screen-stretchers; I don't have the ability to resize.

Those sweaty palms of yours are the reason gymnast-turned climber John Gill, one of the greatest climbers ever, introduced athletic chalk to climbing. In the top soloing pic, you can see the chalk bag hanging off the climber's hip. he'll find a secure stance and dip his hands in there to keep them dry.

 

[Peregrinator]

I am scared to death that my son will take up such activities. My fear is that he will fall and get seriously injured or die, which would absolutely devistate me. Is it so wrong of me to in no way encourage him to take up such extreme / dangerous activities?

Well, I would never tell a mom it's wrong to discourage her children to do dangerous things. Having said that, I'd remind you that by and large, climbing is a very, very safe sport; there are few deaths or serious injuries compared to many other sports and activities we let kids do regularly, like bicycling. For two seasons, my summer job was teaching climbing at a camp; the systems are incredibly redundant and safe, and there's only a tiny margin for pilot error. If he does become interested, sign him up for some lessons with a competent climbing school. You can look into reccomendations by contacting the American Mountain Guides Association. They have a registry of accredited climbing guides and schools, and any of them will steer him toward the safest practices.

Alternately, you could just hire me. I like kids.