Abandoned series.

[jhealy55]

We have this discussion periodically. Personally, I'd like there to be a discussion room open only to story authors here, but each time this comes up, the preponderance of opinion (some citing how the room is tagged) is that those wishing to interact with Lit. authors whether or not they are authors themselves should be welcome to the AH.

Yep. I can see that.

Not saying there isn't a place for everyone to chime in. Just at the point where I'm not overly concerned about talking over/past those who don't have any (visible) skin in the game or don't demonstrate the minimum level of concern/respect for the opinions of those who do.

Hemingway's list of things that you have to do as a man lean way more heavily on investing yourself in something that creates additional vulnerability than it first appears. Once you plant a tree or have a child, you become invested in the outcome. You are exposed and less mobile than you were before. There is more to defend.

That level of commitment should elicit a certain degree of restraint and common cause with others who have likewise put something they love at risk. That it also provokes less patience with the attention of those who feel no compunction about lifting a leg on anything not worth scavenging is just a natural byproduct of the same.

 

[lovecraft68]

We have this discussion periodically. Personally, I'd like there to be a discussion room open only to story authors here, but each time this comes up, the preponderance of opinion (some citing how the room is tagged) is that those wishing to interact with Lit. authors whether or not they are authors themselves should be welcome to the AH.

I'd like to double down on that with the discussion room being limited to writing topics, not "hey ladies what does cum taste like" and a bunch of nonsense and attention seeking threads. There's the playground, General Board, and personals for that, as well as the fetish forum for all the "I'm a pervert and want women to talk about sex with me" threads.

 

[KeithD]

That level of commitment should elicit a certain degree of restraint and common cause with others who have likewise put something they love at risk. That it also provokes less patience with the attention of those who feel no compunction about lifting a leg on anything not worth scavenging is just a natural byproduct of the same.

This basically is why I cannot take anyone's claim to be a writer seriously if they don't also accept a responsibility to be as concerned about the proprietary rights of other writers as they are about their own rights.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Which raises the question, at least for me, in what context is it appropriate to post comments in an "authors hangout" if you're still unpublished on the site?

I think anything along the lines of, "Hi, I'm just finding my way around" is totally in bounds. Certainly advice about the tips and tricks that others have learned, and wish they knew before their first story was published here, would fit the bill.

That's always been my stance. If a newbie wanders in with a genuine question, I don't care how many times it's gone around before, I'll give them a response. That's common courtesy to someone finding their way.

If long timers don't like the repetitive threads, don't read them. That's not hard to do.

In terms of those new parties unpublished on the site, for me it comes down to their attitude. For example, you're new here, but you're civil, you've got something sensible to say, so you're welcome. I have no idea how many stories you have, your courtesy serves you just as well.

But when other new posters turn up with a holier than thou attitude, start telling us what we should or shouldn't do, or spruik some self-appointed fountain of absolutist "knowledge", that's when I'll go look at their "body of work". There's rarely ever a surprise - there's usually nothing. That's when I shrug and don't bother reading their posts anymore, or if they're already tedious, I'll pop them on Ignore. Life's so much more peaceful that way.

 

[Voboy]

Which raises the question, at least for me, in what context is it appropriate to post comments in an "authors hangout" if you're still unpublished on the site?

It's always tricky to "regulate the internet." Any limitation requires rigorous, consistent, and prudent enforcement, and volunteer mods who can do that well are few and far between. And even if enforced, such a site runs the risk of becoming an echo chamber, which isn't desirable either.

In general, if the two useful choices are "frequent crackdown" or "free-for-all," then I'd err on the side of free-for-all; you never know when good contributions will emerge from unlikely sources. And I'd not ban non-published writers from posting here, for the reasons posted here already; also, because this is a great source of information for people in the formative stages of their writing. They might be cranking out stories and contributing here, but still trying to gather the courage to publish. I don't think it's in the site's interests to discourage such people from getting involved.

What I do appreciate is that, when shitheads show up to clog the subforum, they're usually not suffered gladly, and they slouch off sooner or later. Or they're ignored. I don't think they're a massive problem.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The forum is not the problem. At least AH and SF aren't. There is plenty of noise in these threads, both from regular folk and new people. There are plenty of nonsense posts too, but it's not that hard to sift through them or use the forum functionalities to reduce the noise.
The story side of Lit is the true problem, in more ways than one.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The story side of Lit is the true problem, in more ways than one.

How do you set up whatever screening is needed to filter out what you think needs filtering out, though? If that's what you're talking about - I don't know whether you're on about content or comments, or something else.

The site's content policy are straightforward (I have no problem with them - some are a bit flaky, but, "Don't like, don't read," so that solves that problem for me). Same with comments - the site gives us enough tools and options to cope.

I reckon the main issue right now, in terms for content, is to get a landing on AI content, which I think is going to get worse before it gets better. I suspect the site is being flooded by junk.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

How do you set up whatever screening is needed to filter out what you think needs filtering out, though? If that's what you're talking about - I don't know whether you're on about content or comments, or something else.

The site's content policy are straightforward (I have no problem with them - some are a bit flaky, but, "Don't like, don't read," so that solves that problem for me). Same with comments - the site gives us enough tools and options to cope.

I reckon the main issue right now, in terms for content, is to get a landing on AI content, which I think is going to get worse before it gets better. I suspect the site is being flooded by junk.

I am 100% on board with Lit's policies. I've said it many times, Their site, their rules. To repeat myself, there are two major issues with Literotica, and both are very, very frustrating for authors mostly, which is probably why Laurel doesn't seem to give a shit about them.

1. This policy of zero communication with the authors, no matter how important the questions being raised are and no matter how helpful even a short answer would be. It tells me that Laurel doesn't really give a fuck about authors. It's her choice of course, but I think it is worth mentioning in this sense.

2. Even before the flood of AI-suspected stories, Literotica seemed heavily undermanned and many things took ages to get answered or done, be it some direct messaging with Laurel, some issue with stories, some technical problem, or whatever else. Now, it is literally impossible to get through to her.

I can already anticipate some people saying how they chat with her on a daily basis, exchanging gossip like the best of friends, yet I am speaking from my own experience and apparently the experience of many authors who had AI-related problems, or some other issues with their stories. For two fucking months she has been completely ignoring my very polite requests in DMs, answering two or three times in total only to make me jump through some hoops, hoping that I drop the issue, but then going back to ignoring me when I actually make those jumps. Two months, I kid you not. Now, I am truly wondering what would happen if I stopped being polite. Would she answer, if only to tell me that I've been banned? It would be something, at least.

There are other issues too, but I guess they would also fall under Lit being undermanned issue.

 

[ElectricBlue]

1. This policy of zero communication with the authors, no matter how important the questions being raised are and no matter how helpful even a short answer would be. It tells me that Laurel doesn't really give a fuck about authors. It's her choice of course, but I think it is worth mentioning in this sense.

I've said this before: Laurel doesn't weigh in often, but she does post publicly from time to time. Not often, but she does.

She's positively responded to me whenever I've had a query, most recently when I thanked her for breaking loose my last story. I don't know, maybe she reads the forums...

2. Even before the flood of AI-suspected stories, Literotica seemed heavily undermanned and many things took ages to get answered or done, be it some direct messaging with Laurel, some issue with stories, some technical problem, or whatever else. Now, it is literally impossible to get through to her.

See comment above - just after New Year.

I can already anticipate some people saying how they chat with her on a daily basis, exchanging gossip like the best of friends, yet I am speaking from my own experience and apparently the experience of many authors who had AI-related problems, or some other issues with their stories. For two fucking months she has been completely ignoring my very polite requests in DMs, answering two or three times in total only to make me jump through some hoops, hoping that I drop the issue, but then going back to ignoring me when I actually make those jumps. Two months, I kid you not. Now, I am truly wondering what would happen if I stopped being polite. Would she answer, if only to tell me that I've been banned? It would be something, at least.

I agree there needs to be consistency - but I can only cite my own encounters. My suggestion though, keep being polite, and don't think she's not watching.

There are other issues too, but I guess they would also fall under Lit being undermanned issue.

I'm with you on that one - clearly running a site with the volume of content this one has would be a constant workload. But I have no idea of the real volume, nor what happens when she sleeps (which one assumes, she does).

 

[Voboy]

But I have no idea of the real volume, nor what happens when she sleeps (which one assumes, she does).

Plot twist: Laurel is, herself, an AI.

Anyone who wants to tackle that plot bunny can have it, for free.

 

[KeithD]

I've said this before: Laurel doesn't weigh in often, but she does post publicly from time to time. Not often, but she does.

I'll do a riff on your account name to note that it's once in a blue moon when she posts.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

For this ungrateful task, she sent you her beloved son--the one who holds the mirror, the shield of truth, the holy fist of karma.

Well, if Laurel is your mother, Tilan has to be your father.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

She's positively responded to me whenever I've had a query, most recently when I thanked her for breaking loose my last story. I don't know, maybe she reads the forums...

I guess it would explain her attitude towards me in a way. I do often rant about Lit's moderation and policies.
Then again, if she actually lurks on the forums but chooses not to respond, if she chooses not to involve herself in any way, then all my criticism from (1) stands. Not having the time for any involvement on the forums might be hard for us to buy, but it is a legitimate reason for avoiding any communication, if true. But if she actually does lurk on the forums and just chooses to ignore us all, then I think my criticism so far has been too mild, if anything.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Five pages since the last time I took a gander at this thread. It's still going strong with (I assume) no consensus in sight. I stand by my early views; just don't do it. I repeat, don't do continuations of stories started by others without their expressed consent.

 

[CJLahrainn]

I didn't read all the pages of responses. Saw lots of talk about copyright. Everyone seems to be acting like fanfic doesn't exist, and that a fair amount of it either continues a story or re-imagines an ending the writer didn't like. No one ever wrote a continuation of Firefly? No one ever said, "I loved PLL through season X, but then it got stupid. This is how it should have gone," and proceeded to write 98269572583 words about it? There's a category for fanfic right on this site, which is a giant green light to use other people's characters and worlds. Do a tag search for Modern Family, for example. How is the OP's question any different? It isn't. It would just be more fanfic.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Fanfac only exists because the copyright holders allow it. This is about FanFic; it's about taking the work of a writer who publishes here and continuing it without asking permission. Fanfic here can be shut down with a cease and desist letter by any copyright holder to Laurel.

To your point, no one ever wrote a continuation of Firefly. Well, they have, not the copyright holders, but Fan Fiction writers, and with the full blessing of said copyright owners, at FanFiction.netT!

 

[CJLahrainn]

How is it any different than fanfic? The original question is really about which category to place it in. If the copyright holder objects, the same would apply to this fanfic as to any other, as you said.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There's a category for fanfic right on this site, which is a giant green light to use other people's characters and worlds. Do a tag search for Modern Family, for example. How is the OP's question any different? It isn't. It would just be more fanfic.

No, it's not a green light at all.

The discussion is about not wanting anyone to continuing stories which have been published here on Lit, without an author's explicit permission.

Sure, Fan-Fic exists, and good luck those creators who allow it, and those writers who get into it. But that's another thing entirely. This discussion is about continuing stories here on Lit, and the consensus from the writers here in this thread, is don't do it unless you have permission.

 

[MillieDynamite]

It's totally different than fanfic. But if you don't understand that, I won't be able to explain it to you.

Let me state this here and now: I do not give permission to anyone to add to, detract from, continue on, or reimagine any of my work.

How is it any different than fanfic? The original question is really about which category to place it in. If the copyright holder objects, the same would apply to this fanfic as to any other, as you said.

 

[CJLahrainn]

It's totally different than fanfic. But if you don't understand that, I won't be able to explain it to you.

Let me state this here and now: I do not give permission to anyone to add to, detract from, continue on, or reimagine any of my work.

Yes, I know you can't explain the difference. That was rather the point. I could be wrong, of course, and using characters and settings that someone else came up with isn't fanfic, but to me that sounds like the definition of it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

This isn't about any of that, and because you don't see the difference between homages and theft, no one can explain it to you. I have a story inspired by Dracula, but it isn't Dracula; what it is is what I made it. I don't worry about anyone stealing from me. I know I'll never make a vast fortune. But whoever created the story has a right to say if someone is going to continue it or not as long as they are alive or their copyright still exists. Said copyright extends 100 years from the publication date, so fifteen years is far short of public domain.

Yes, I know you can't explain the difference. That was rather the point. I could be wrong, of course, and using characters and settings that someone else came up with isn't fanfic, but to me that sounds like the definition of it.

It's hard to talk sense to people who think their bloats smell like rosewater. They're trapped in a bad dream where everyone's trying to steal from them and amass fortunes. They check their homepage dozens of times a day while we're talking about someone who abandoned their work fifteen years ago.

Let them dream; it's all they have.

 

[alohadave]

Said copyright extends 100 years from the publication date

Personal copyright lasts for 70 years after your death. Corporate copyrights are 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter

 

[StillStunned]

I have a story inspired by Dracula, but it isn't Dracula

And Dracula itself was heavily inspired by Le Fanu's story "Carmilla" (which contains some quite steamy lesbian vampire porn, considering when it was published).

 

[jhealy55]

Five pages since the last time I took a gander at this thread. It's still going strong with (I assume) no consensus in sight. I stand by my early views; just don't do it. I repeat, don't do continuations of stories started by others without their expressed consent.

Come for the high minded ethical debate, but by all means hang around for the trolling. Its kept us going long past the sell-by on this thread.

 

[SimonDoom]

How is it any different than fanfic?

There's a big difference between writing "fanfic" stories based on famous properties by famous, successful authors, and writing stories based on stories written by Literotica authors.

First of all, the most important thing to understand is that the existence of fanfic is not proof of its acceptability under the law. For the most part, it is NOT fair use. If legally challenged, most of the authors of fanfic would lose, regardless of whether they are making money or not. Fanfic is a form of widespread copyright infringement that is nonetheless accepted by many famous authors for a variety of reasons, including that it's not worth pursuing financially and it's possible that it adds to, rather than detracts from, the value of their body of work by drumming up further interest in the worlds they've created in a way where nobody is actually making money off those worlds.

The considerations for allowing fanfic in the case of world-famous authors like Stephanie Meyer do not apply in the case of stories by pseudonymous authors who make no money from their works at Literotica. Our "success" is more limited and more tenuous here. Money is not the currency. Views, likes, comments, favorites, and reputation are. It should be fairly clear by now from the passionate comments given by many authors in these oft-raised threads that many authors STRONGLY oppose the unauthorized reproduction of their works, or the authorship of derivative works of their works. There is no presumption here that it's "acceptable" notwithstanding dubious legality.