Abandoned series.

[Voboy]

Threads like this make me want to set up an alt that posts nothing but incomplete series, just out of spite.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Keep it coming! Silly GIFs and pics are the local unwritten sign that says, "I'm not sure how and why, but you've really managed to unsettle me."

Or a symbiotic means of communicating with lower forms of intelligence

 

[jhealy55]

The Troll Self-Outing is now complete.

WIthout any reasonable case to make, we are now down to arguing with Rocket Raccoon about whether stealing is still wrong, even if he wants it MORE than the rightful owner.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Right there! There's a big misconception in this seemingly simple statement. A derivative sequel is NOT YOUR story!

The premise, names, and settings of a story are merely a mold, an empty shell. Filling that shell with decent content is trickier than starting from scratch. The heart of the story is not its outline but the plot, dialogues, emotions, and conflicts--all these must feel fresh.

Spinning an intriguing and believable sequel while staying true to the original characters and style is almost an impossible task, as you don't have all the keys to the hidden locks.

Contrary to what's been said, readers don't wish to continue series or stories to attract followers or gain a reputation; that's BS. They fall in love with the characters and wish to make amends for them.

Some stories have a deeply built-in thematic flaw that bothers loyal readers enough to feel they need to fix it. I know this because I tried--twice but couldn't do it. I'm not just talking about the difficulty of sticking to the unique style and voice of the characters; I'm talking about an inherent contradiction in the original piece that cannot be resolved by a sequel.

What you're talking about is termed "fix-fic", and I do think fix-fic can be a legitimate form of criticism/commentary on the original. If somebody has problems with (e.g.) Tolkien's handling of female characters, sometimes the best way to express that criticism might be in the form of a story set in his world which draws out what he did wrong or how he could've done it better. The point of fix-fic is not to save the writer effort by piggybacking on the original material, but to set them that challenge of fixing things within somebody else's rules.

But even where fix-fic is legitimate, people who write it shouldn't kid themselves that they are "loyal" readers or that they're doing the original author a favour. The point of fix-fic is to assert that the original author Got It Wrong, and that the fan-author feels strongly enough about this to write an entire story on it. Even when that is motivated by love for the original work, it's unlikely that the original author would welcome it.

It's no coincidence that all the wordsmiths, who are so firmly against sequels, didn't bother to state in their bio that they don't allow sequels to their stories as they are fully aware of the implications for their long-term legacy.

Not everybody here is writing solely for the sake of getting attention. I didn't come here with the intention of creating a "long-term legacy" and I'd rather have no legacy at all than the wrong kind of legacy.

My first story here is about two women who hook up, fall in love, hit some obstacles, but eventually get past them and embrace one another as partners. Some readers wanted me to finish with a wedding scene, but I wrote that story in a time when same-sex marriage wasn't legal in Australia, and the fact that they couldn't marry was part of the challenges Phoebe and Yvonne had to deal with.

If somebody were to write a fan sequel showing Phoebe and Yvonne on the day of the public vote that gave them the right to marry, I'd probably be touched that somebody cared enough about my characters to imagine that continuation of their story.

OTOH, if somebody had written a fix-fic that had them getting married in 2013, ignoring the laws of the time, I would've been unimpressed. To them it might have been a "better" story with a wedding at the end, to me it would've been erasing the real-life discrimination that I was opposing in that story.

And if somebody had written a fix-fic that had them both realising that same-sex love was wrong, breaking up, and marrying guys instead, I would've been absolutely pissed. I'd much rather have no kind of attention than that kind.

Publishing content on an open platform like this, where anyone can download any content in a split second, is like parking your car on a main street in a bad neighborhood with the keys inside and the engine running. The least you can do is leave a note saying "I'll be right back."

What on earth would such a note achieve?

You don't leave your car running and disappear for years if you value it! The fuel will eventually run out, and the engine will die, but some passers-by will still cry "Don't touch it! Don't check it, and don't protect it; let the dust and rust crumble it completely."

...and here we have passed the limits of useful analogy.

I get that as long as you're active, you expect to be asked first, but why do you care what happens after you kick the bucket? After others kick the bucket...

Why do people make wills?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Threads like this make me want to set up an alt that posts nothing but incomplete series, just out of spite.

Every series is "incomplete" in some reader's eyes, no matter how complete the author might think it.

 

[Voboy]

What you're talking about is termed "fix-fic", and I do think fix-fic can be a legitimate form of criticism/commentary on the original. If somebody has problems with (e.g.) Tolkien's handling of female characters, sometimes the best way to express that criticism might be in the form of a story set in his world which draws out what he did wrong or how he could've done it better.

Every time I read LOTR (once every few years), I get the urge to rewrite it with punched-up verbs.

It was (and is) the formative element in my reading and writing life, and yet? The Professor used the verb "to be" waaaay too much. Once I realized it, I couldn't unsee it.

More to the point, there are those who'd see his works as "abandoned series." Tacking on an unauthorized sequel? Unthinkable.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Every time I read LOTR (once every few years), I get the urge to rewrite it with punched-up verbs.

It was (and is) the formative element in my reading and writing life, and yet? The Professor used the verb "to be" waaaay too much. Once I realized it, I couldn't unsee it.

More to the point, there are those who'd see his works as "abandoned series." Tacking on an unauthorized sequel? Unthinkable.

Inconceivable!

 

[Voboy]

Inconceivable!

Ouch. I just read a bit of that.

Painful.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Ouch. I just read a bit of that.

Painful.

More pain here: https://books.google.com/books?id=iH6iEAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's not the worst fanfic I've read, by a long stretch. But it's a very long way from good, and it's amazing to think this guy expected the Tolkien rights owners to embrace it, let alone that he thought he could sue them.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Probably a dumbass question, but is there any way within Literotica's rules, that I can finish a series begun (and now abandoned) by another author?

The series in question started in 2007 and the author has not been active on Literotica since 2009. I have my own ideas as to how the stories would progress but I don't want to just dive in and end up being banned or something. I tried to contact the author but there was no response and after 15 years, it's obvious he is no longer a member. Can anyone help?

I have commented on this thread, and it has been circling inside my head.
I have one thing to add to the conversation.
There's no such thing as an abandoned series.
The original writer didn't abandon it. they stopped writing it. End of story, full stop.
If you didn't like the way they ended it... Tough cookies.
They haven't responded to your attempts to talk to them...Tough.
The ethical thing to do is walk away and say "Oh well."

Cagivagurl

 

[Voboy]

More pain here: https://books.google.com/books?id=iH6iEAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's not the worst fanfic I've read, by a long stretch. But it's a very long way from good, and it's amazing to think this guy expected the Tolkien rights owners to embrace it, let alone that he thought he could sue them.

Yes. His exposition is not stilted, at all! Everything is very, very fluid.

 

[jhealy55]

I have commented on this thread, and it has been circling inside my head.
I have one thing to add to the conversation.
There's no such thing as an abandoned series.
The original writer didn't abandon it. they stopped writing it. End of story, full stop.
If you didn't like the way they ended it... Tough cookies.
They haven't responded to your attempts to talk to them...Tough.
The ethical thing to do is walk away and say "Oh well."

Cagivagurl

Came to the same conclusion. 'Abandoned' is a loaded term that assumes facts not in evidence.

There are unfinished stories, stories waiting for authors to get back to them and stories that the original creator grants specific authors permission to continue, but there are no "abandoned" stories unless the original author themselves apply that designation.

Because there are no time limits on creativity, nor penalties applied for taking longer than anyone else believes is appropriate to complete a story. It is where the author left it until such time as they choose to pick it back up again. Or not. No explanation or reply is required and a lack of either does not imply a change in that status.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes. His exposition is not stilted, at all! Everything is very, very fluid.

It matches Tolkien's talent for linguistics:



And poetry:


It's not all bad. The guy clearly has a very good knowledge of the original source material and a lot of the story is driven by minor details in the original, sometimes trying to address continuity issues there. He obviously had put a lot of work into it, which makes it all the sadder that he has such awful prose and judgement.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The real question is why our people refuse to make one.

Wills are legally enforceable. An author putting "please don't write continuations to my stories" in their bio is not.

If one supposes that such continuations are "fair use", then people have the right to publish them no matter what the author says about it. If one supposes that they're not "fair use", then would-be sequel-writers don't have that right unless and until the author consents to it.

The idea that authors are assumed to consent unless they specifically say otherwise is a big part of what people are objecting to here. And of course, if a few authors did add such a note, that'd just be seized on as "evidence" that everybody else is okay with it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This endless loop is tiresome, and no one's gonna change their minds, so I'll conclude with this:

You should not be threatened by a sequel, but flattered.

Having spent so many years labouring under the burden of having to decide for myself how I ought to feel about things, at last a stranger on the internet has shown up to tell me what my reactions ought to be. My delight is truly unmeasurable.

No one can follow your steps; no one can imitate your special voice, characterization, creative process, and distinctive ways of expression. If a sequel is bad, it will highlight your achievement,

That seems like a very small and sad kind of "highlight" and not one I would be grateful for. What kind of person finds validation in other people's failures?

and if it's excellent, it will gain you attention. Either way, you win.

Oh man, it's been months since I saw an actual "you should be grateful for the exposure" in the wild! I was beginning to worry they might have been mocked into extinction.



As I've already said twice in this thread, not everybody here is so attention-starved that we need to feel grateful to everybody who offers it.

Coming to terms with your stance means accepting the existing norm, in which many do write derivative pieces but don't give credit; they simply change the names.

Not especially, no.

 

[onehitwanda]

@Bramblethorn I don't say this often enough, but I love you.

 

[Voboy]

TBH, I initially phrased it as "One should not be threatened," but then changed it to "You." A skilled puppeteer should know which chord to pull and when to achieve the right result.

Some people are like AI; with short prompts, you can extract thousands of words from them. They can't help it; they're programmed to react. It follows a known online rule of thumb: short prompts---long threads.

*cord

 

[onehitwanda]

*cord

he cawed.

 

[lovecraft68]

Just to reiterate for those who missed it; the rough circle on my screen shot of the ‘Post Thread’ button was a death spiral..

I think you need to edit the tag line to "A place to post the same thread over and over."

 

[jhealy55]

I think you need to edit the tag line to "A place to post the same thread over and over."

Which raises the question, at least for me, in what context is it appropriate to post comments in an "authors hangout" if you're still unpublished on the site?

I think anything along the lines of, "Hi, I'm just finding my way around" is totally in bounds. Certainly advice about the tips and tricks that others have learned, and wish they knew before their first story was published here, would fit the bill.

Weighing in, up to the point of taunting or trolling published authors about how they should feel about protecting their own work, feels way out of bounds. I don't doubt that
a brand new user, jumping into a thread like this, is a MULT (can't help picture a tank top and a mullet every time I key that). But then they're just hiding (and sniping) without risk of exposing their own work, and previous comments, to scrutiny, aren't they?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and should be welcome to add their voice to the discussion, but until I see multiple posters with an established body of work on each profile, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that its just one voice, who has already lost the point on the merits, pretending to be a Greek chorus in support of a failed position.

So in all these, (is 'debates' too lofty a term given some of the posts?) my part in the discussion will always be directed toward the established authors here, who risk reputation, and retribution, by taking a side. Everything else is just static.

 

[lovecraft68]

Which raises the question, at least for me, in what context is it appropriate to post comments in an "authors hangout" if you're still unpublished on the site?

I think anything along the lines of, "Hi, I'm just finding my way around" is totally in bounds. Certainly advice about the tips and tricks that others have learned, and wish they knew before their first story was published here, would fit the bill.

Weighing in, up to the point of taunting or trolling published authors about how they should feel about protecting their own work, feels way out of bounds. I don't doubt that
a brand new user, jumping into a thread like this, is a MULT (can't help picture a tank top and a mullet every time I key that). But then they're just hiding (and sniping) without risk of exposing their own work, and previous comments, to scrutiny, aren't they?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and should be welcome to add their voice to the discussion, but until I see multiple posters with an established body of work on each profile, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that its just one voice, who has already lost the point on the merits, pretending to be a Greek chorus in support of a failed position.

So in all these, (is 'debates' too lofty a term given some of the posts?) my part in the discussion will always be directed toward the established authors here, who risk reputation, and retribution, by taking a side. Everything else is just static.

lit added the feature where when you start thread similar threads show up.

The purpose of that feature was to stop endless threads on the same topic by directing newbies to past discussions.

Meaning there is no reason for the same topic to continue to manifest in new threads, and nothing new is ever said from when this was discussed three months ago to now.

The site should start deleting repetitive threads.

Instead, its a matter of days before we see another question about underage being allowed here.

 

[lovecraft68]

The moth is complaining about the fire. It's a novelty.

Troll your way, I'll troll mine.

 

[KeithD]

Which raises the question, at least for me, in what context is it appropriate to post comments in an "authors hangout" if you're still unpublished on the site?

We have this discussion periodically. Personally, I'd like there to be a discussion room open only to story authors here, but each time this comes up, the preponderance of opinion (some citing how the room is tagged) is that those wishing to interact with Lit. authors whether or not they are authors themselves should be welcome to the AH.

 

[Bramblethorn]

*cord

Also doesn't know what "conclude" means.

 

[lc69hunter]

Two authors no longer posting here, have given me approval to take their stories in a totally different direction. I have not yet done so, but would not do it without the author's permission.