A wish ...

[lovecraft68]

[No personal attacks or trolling - including creating accounts for this specific purpose. Heated discussions are fine, even welcome. However, personally attacking / kink-shaming a fellow author or reader is not allowed within the Author's Hangout. Threads which devolve into the exchanging of insults will be closed and repeat offenders will be given a timeout, per the AH rules.]

 

[NoTalentHack]

I like you, lovecraft, but I will defend Tilan. This is simply not true. "Scream" isn't anything like "Incel". Plus, "Incel" is half his current catalogue. Kinda unfair to call it all cookie-cutter when you're literally dealing with a sequel situation there.


This is also untrue. I appreciate him.

It’s half his current catalog, but he flounced off the forums about half a year ago and nuked his account; he had maybe a dozen more stories on there then, most of them more in line with Incel than Scream. He did have Cuckroach on there, though, a broadside against the readers/commenters of LW with racist/misogynistic attitudes.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'd be interested to see how what % of commenters they lost once they added that requirement.

But in any case - Literotica is not a news site. Many people are more sensitive about their porn-reading habits than their news-reading habits, and I have more faith in a major newspaper's ability to protect that kind of account info than I do for Literotica.

I'm not an expert on online consumer activity and behavior, but I have some experience with my own professional website and with websites of others I have known, as well as doing some reading on the subject, and everything I've read and seen leads me to believe that online consumer demand is extremely elastic in response to inconvenience. Make things just a tiny bit more inconvenient, and consumers bug off. It would make sense that this would be especially true in the case of a website that involved content that is widely perceived as controversial, embarrassing, and possibly reputation-injuring, like this one. I imagine this Site is extremely sensitive to this fact and is not going to do one tiny thing that might scare its customers away.

I personally welcome anonymous comments. If I don't like them, I reserve the right to delete them, although I seldom do. By advocating keeping anonymous comments, I'm not impinging on the rights of those who don't like them, because they can choose to get rid of them. But those who want them abolished ARE advocating impinging on my right to see them. The positions aren't symmetrical.

 

[madelinemasoch]

[No personal attacks or trolling - including creating accounts for this specific purpose. Heated discussions are fine, even welcome. However, personally attacking / kink-shaming a fellow author or reader is not allowed within the Author's Hangout. Threads which devolve into the exchanging of insults will be closed and repeat offenders will be given a timeout, per the AH rules.]

Okay, well, I don't know what you said, but alright.

 

[MelissaBaby]

So I’m struggling with the notion that disaster could ensue, that there’s great risk.
The upside would be that identifying and reacting to honest-to-God troll behavior would be vastly simpler from a technical standpoint.

I think that if you banned all anonymous comments, comments would dwindle down considerably, and without that input, many author's would go elsewhere.

I could be wrong, but still, why risk it? Comment abuse is not a widespread problem.

 

[AH_Mod]

The flame war has been removed from the thread because it was off-topic and riddled with personal attacks. The three people involved should consider themselves on notice to refrain from such behavior, as Laurel's earlier warning says:

[No personal attacks or trolling - including creating accounts for this specific purpose. Heated discussions are fine, even welcome. However, personally attacking / kink-shaming a fellow author or reader is not allowed within the Author's Hangout. Threads which devolve into the exchanging of insults will be closed and repeat offenders will be given a timeout, per the AH rules.]

Tilan, you are once again treading on thin ice beyond just the exchange here.

 

[LexxRuthless]

Ugh. I got a lengthy comment from someone with a very high opinion of his own opinion. Somewhere in the middle of that page of garbage review, he admitted he hadn't even read the story. Looks like he read half a page of a 5-page short story and decided it was awful. Whatever. I deleted the comment. Now I see that story has been repeatedly downvoted.

If you're going to downvote my story, at least finish reading it, nimrod.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Ugh. I got a lengthy comment from someone with a very high opinion of his own opinion. Somewhere in the middle of that page of garbage review, he admitted he hadn't even read the story. Looks like he read half a page of a 5-page short story and decided it was awful. Whatever. I deleted the comment. Now I see that story has been repeatedly downvoted.

If you're going to downvote my story, at least finish reading it, nimrod.

That really sucks. What a turd!

 

[PrincessArianrhod]

...trying to imagine how lonely, and desperate someone must be to lash out at strangers.

Lashing out at strangers has become fairly commonplace for people with no more disfunction that having a spoiled, entitled childhood and being told consistently by advertising and social media that they can do, be and say anything they want. The internet also provides the perfect arena for doing so without tangible repercussions.

 

[lanceGibs]

Lashing out at strangers has become fairly commonplace for people with no more disfunction that having a spoiled, entitled childhood and being told consistently by advertising and social media that they can do, be and say anything they want. The internet also provides the perfect arena for doing so without tangible repercussions.

I endorse your views

 

[lanceGibs]

Lashing out at strangers has become fairly commonplace for people with no more disfunction that having a spoiled, entitled childhood and being told consistently by advertising and social media that they can do, be and say anything they want. The internet also provides the perfect arena for doing so without tangible repercussions.

Bad upbringing never goes away
The better amongst us are always considerate, humble and polite.

Some people with poor upbringing discover that towards the end of their lives others die a sad unwept and unhonoured death

 

[NoTalentHack]

Lashing out at strangers has become fairly commonplace for people with no more disfunction that having a spoiled, entitled childhood and being told consistently by advertising and social media that they can do, be and say anything they want. The internet also provides the perfect arena for doing so without tangible repercussions.

The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory: Normal Person - Consequences + Audience = Total Fuckwad

 

[lovecraft68]

Lashing out at strangers has become fairly commonplace for people with no more disfunction that having a spoiled, entitled childhood and being told consistently by advertising and social media that they can do, be and say anything they want. The internet also provides the perfect arena for doing so without tangible repercussions.

Anon gives even more bandwidth courage, even a made up username is to much of a risk for them. Lit is the worst site for trolling by far. Part of that of course is being the largest site so there's probably 'more' of everything here, but other sites are far better moderated. You let the bad crowd into a neighborhood it goes downhill. The fact that crowd knows there's no repercussions-other than an author deleting their comment-they're not going to get better and they're going to draw more of their kind in here because by nature of the set up here this is a safe place to spew unsafe things.

Society as a whole these days has been preached fear and hate mongering by media and politicians, taught to hate anyone with different opinions, and sad to say as a whole, people fell into it with frightening ease. The stuff that goes on here is just a microcosm for everything else out there. In the end, trolling is base human nature.

 

[LexxRuthless]

Lashing out at strangers has become fairly commonplace for people with no more disfunction that having a spoiled, entitled childhood and being told consistently by advertising and social media that they can do, be and say anything they want. The internet also provides the perfect arena for doing so without tangible repercussions.

You're not wrong, but you are stereotyping. When the behaviour can be defined as sociopathic, then the person engaging in that behaviour is by definition a sociopath. Sociopaths come from all walks of life. Their parents and upbringing are rarely to blame for the kid growing into the kind of person who enjoys the suffering of others. Does it happen? Sure. However, many of the more famous sociopaths and psychopaths seem like perfectly well-adjusted people -- until someone stumbles across the bodies.

The internet merely provides those particular "broken toys" with a safe, anonymous outlet for those impulses. Maybe that's a good thing? I'd much rather have some psychos spend their time downvoting and posting negative comments on stories here, even if those are my stories, than out in the world hurting people and animals.

Where I completely agree with you is the lack of repercussions. I'm reminded of the wonderful quote from the late, great Stan Lee: "With great power comes great responsibility." Well, the internet provides power at our fingertips the likes of which past generations could never have imagined. Instantaneous communication with people around the world. Access to nearly limitless information in the blink of an eye. And...zero responsibility. It's like handing a bunch of toddlers loaded handguns. Someone's going to get hurt.

Unfortunately, I cannot offer any sort of reasonable solution. Any effort to make some random sociopath out there in the world take responsibility for his words on the internet can only come with a far greater cost to everyone else. Literotica has been a fierce proponent of free speech ever since its inception, and I have always applauded that choice.

 

[NoTalentHack]

To the ignore list, sockpuppet!

 

[SimonDoom]

Unfortunately, I cannot offer any sort of reasonable solution. Any effort to make some random sociopath out there in the world take responsibility for his words on the internet can only come with a far greater cost to everyone else. Literotica has been a fierce proponent of free speech ever since its inception, and I have always applauded that choice.

I agree there's no reasonable solution in the sense of preventing bad behavior from happening. This Site takes some responsibility for deleting comments that step over the line into personal attacks, which I think is appropriate. But for the most part the answer is self-regulation. You can't stop others from being turds, but you can modify your own behavior to minimize the cost to you of living in a world where there are turds. It may mean choosing not to interact with turds. For some it means deleting comments, and that's fine. Others don't care as much, and keep the comments, and that's fine too. Another thing we can do is to encourage forum participants voluntarily to abide by certain minimal standards of conduct. It's impossible to enforce absolutely, but it still counts for something.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I agree there's no reasonable solution in the sense of preventing bad behavior from happening. This Site takes some responsibility for deleting comments that step over the line into personal attacks, which I think is appropriate. But for the most part the answer is self-regulation. You can't stop others from being turds, but you can modify your own behavior to minimize the cost to you of living in a world where there are turds. It may mean choosing not to interact with turds. For some it means deleting comments, and that's fine. Others don't care as much, and keep the comments, and that's fine too. Another thing we can do is to encourage forum participants voluntarily to abide by certain minimal standards of conduct. It's impossible to enforce absolutely, but it still counts for something.

We can encourage them to, but if all they do is troll all day and make more sockpuppet accounts to troll with and flounce but keep posting with a sockpuppet account, and the mods do nothing but shake their finger and say “No! Bad dog! Next time I might actually do something!” then all the encouragement in the world ain’t gonna go shit.

Block/ignore and warn newbies. That’s all you can do if mods can’t/won’t do anything. And, of course, warning newbies can be called “abuse” if the mod decides it is.

 

[SimonDoom]

We can encourage them to, but if all they do is troll all day and make more sockpuppet accounts to troll with and flounce but keep posting with a sockpuppet account, and the mods do nothing but shake their finger and say “No! Bad dog! Next time I might actually do something!” then all the encouragement in the world ain’t gonna go shit.

Block/ignore and warn newbies. That’s all you can do if mods can’t/won’t do anything. And, of course, warning newbies can be called “abuse” if the mod decides it is.

Unfortunately, you are right, but I think you can avoid "abuse" as long as you don't make it personal. That's what poisons everything. There's nothing wrong with opinions, even strong and negative ones. But there's no need to get personally nasty.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Unfortunately, you are right, but I think you can avoid "abuse" as long as you don't make it personal. That's what poisons everything. There's nothing wrong with opinions, even strong and negative ones. But there's no need to get personally nasty.

I mean... if someone is acting like a total asshole, saying "you're a total asshole" isn't abuse. It's accurate. I agree that opinions are fine. "I don't like your work" or even "Your work is bad" are opinions. Those are fine. "Your work is like a child's scribbles" is personally nasty. It's intended to provoke a response. The genteel yet snide persona is just that: a tool to provoke a response. It's a troll trying to get someone else in trouble. That type of person needs to be removed from the forums.

I know you're a big free speech advocate. I (mostly) am. But there's a saying I like: "tolerance is a peace treaty, not a suicide pact." The longer you let trolls stay, the closer and closer any board edges towards the latter. Eventually, the board is 90% trolls and their sockpuppets.

 

[SimonDoom]

I mean... if someone is acting like a total asshole, saying "you're a total asshole" isn't abuse. It's accurate. I agree that opinions are fine. "I don't like your work" or even "Your work is bad" are opinions. Those are fine. "Your work is like a child's scribbles" is personally nasty. It's intended to provoke a response. The genteel yet snide persona is just that: a tool to provoke a response. It's a troll trying to get someone else in trouble. That type of person needs to be removed from the forums.

I know you're a big free speech advocate. I (mostly) am. But there's a saying I like: "tolerance is a peace treaty, not a suicide pact." The longer you let trolls stay, the closer and closer any board edges towards the latter. Eventually, the board is 90% trolls and their sockpuppets.

I don't disagree with you about that. There are several contributors to this forum who routinely engage in personal attacks and excessively nasty criticisms of the work of others. I wouldn't mind seeing those kinds of comments categorically eliminated. My understanding is that a little while before I started contributing here at the end of 2016 things got very bad, and the mods stepped up and reduced the nastiness, so it can be done.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Looks like a couple sockpuppets got banned, including our very, totally, oh-so-real critic. And a regular (and regularly unwelcome) contributor seems to have fallen silent for more than 24 hours; first time that happened since they deflounced. What a curious coincidence!

 

[Voboy]

Lol.

"Deflounced."