2023 Poem-A-Week Discussion Thread

[Angeline]

re your 'wow', Angeline, on my koala poem... it's horrific, right? as an adult, i am genuinely disgusted these marsupials were ever permitted to be hunted and skinned and made into toys and tourist keepsakes. at the same time, i perfectly recall how i loved it, not knowing any better.

in my thinking, it's akin to children brought up with racism or deep religious views that, today, are often (rightly) looked upon as 'wthf???!'

Yes I was horrified but not totally surprised. I lived near Miami for a year as a young child (like preschool age) and I remember having a very realistic-looking stuffed baby alligator. I assume it was synthetic (and not some weird taxidermy) but I'm not sure. It felt real right down to the leathery skin and sharp teeth. And I recall they sold these things in all the souvenir shops. They were very popular. Who the hell would give such a thing to a little kid, I know! And yet I'd see other kids with them. Go figure. It was another time.

But to put the focus back on poetry your poem is excellent. When I read something that evokes a strong, visceral reaction like that from me I know it's the good stuff!

 

[Wonderer67]

Wonderer67, I love your 4H Fair poem. I'm NJ born and raised. My sister was a 4H kid though we were no farm family! Still your poem is so evocative of those county and state fairs I attended as a kid: walking through the displays and looking to see who won a ribbon, the animals, tractor parades, smells, food, the midway.

Thanks Angeline. I really love the fair.

I’m glad it brought back some memories!!

We took three first place ribbons and three second place ribbons! Was a good year, Altho I miss the old flemington fair, which ended on Labor Day Monday. Then school started… it felt like the real end of summer.

 

[Angeline]

Thanks Angeline. I really love the fair.

I’m glad it brought back some memories!!

We took three first place ribbons and three second place ribbons! Was a good year, Altho I miss the old flemington fair, which ended on Labor Day Monday. Then school started… it felt like the real end of summer.

Congratulations on your wins!

I remember the Flemington Fair. I also remember (and loved) the NJ State Fair when it was in Trenton when I was a kid. And when my kids were little we always went to the county fair in PA. I forget the name but it was in Bucks County, past Newtown...near Richboro, I think. Great memories!

 

[Wonderer67]

Congratulations on your wins!

I remember the Flemington Fair. I also remember (and loved) the NJ State Fair when it was in Trenton when I was a kid. And when my kids were little we always went to the county fair in PA. I forget the name but it was in Bucks County, past Newtown...near Richboro, I think. Great memories!

I remember going to the Trenton speedway once. I was just a kid, but it was not during the NJ state fair.

Flemington fair was great - had a great vibe with the race track and all. Warren county fair still is good too. Good times.

 

[butters]

damn, Wonderer's latest is a must-read... not easy but important

A Nighttime March
or Iraq and Back

 

[Wonderer67]

Thank you butters.

 

[Angeline]

This year has been rather quiet on the old PF&D forum, eh? Still, poetry is managing to thrive here. We've recently had some lovely new poetry in the Passion thread thanks to our old buddy 4degrees and some new folk. Moochie, who usually hides from the light in the Hangout, is taking on a new 30/30 (her eighth!), so big props to her. Of course 3 Words or Less always pulls folks in for brief and random poemlets (yeah I made that word up, sue me lol). We've seen occasional gems from Snow and others (even Remec!) In the Five Senses thread and Winter_Fare and others are writing some lovely sonnets. Oh and Piscator has revived his excellent Second Cummings thread, where you can make a poem from *any* prompt list in the Five Senses challenge. Awesome idea, P'tor.

And then there are those of us slogging along in the Poem A Week thread. There's a lot of good stuff to read both from old timers and wonderful newer (to me) poets like Wonderer, Ambient, Other_Man and folks I'm no doubt forgetting. I apologize.

I've been thinking about all this poetry that, even in a quieter year, we manage to produce and feeling grateful to all of you who show up and write.

But what about next year? Are y'all interested in another group project? It's almost October so the new year will be here before we know it. Ok maybe the thought of another poem a week makes you want to throw a thesaurus and run away. Or maybe that's just me, ahem. What about some kind of workshop where you edit an older poem of yours (or new) and receive feedback and give feedback to others? We could figure out the details. Or maybe people could sign up to give a prompt every week or two that participants have to use for a poem. Maybe you have other ideas or suggestions. It's not too soon to think about this. So speak up. Please. Anyone? Bueller?

 

[29wordsforsnow]

Maybe a monthly prompt challenge to take it easy, and have some other [form, theme] challenges as well?

 

[Ambient4190]

Hi Angeline

3rd quarter is complete! OH MY GOODNESS!! CRAZY!!

Poem A Week challenge is exactly that - a challenge. For me, due to time constraints ie work, travel, I feel as if I am posting drafts. I have plenty of ideas but as Butters alluded to in poem #28 "should I slice myself wide open.." That's what is so difficult for me. I admire Wonderer, Snow, Goddess of Glee - you, Paladin, Other Man, Tzara, Butters, Ashesh and those who fell by the wayside due to Life events I'm sure. I wonder about GP? There were mentions of health issues - I hope they are OK.

Anyhoo - I would suggest something with definitely a shorter time frame. Allow comments. Perhaps a fun thread : Write a Poem about Dogs or Blowjobs or Sex in a car or Suntanning naked or Big Boobs or A fantasy lover ... (in my defense, this is a porn site)

 

[Angeline]

Thank you Snow and Ambient. I really appreciate the feedback and I also kinda can't believe we've made it through three-quarters of the challenge. And Ambient I feel like most of what I write here (overall, not just this challenge) is at the draft stage. That's one of the reasons I mentioned a possible workshopping thread where we give and get feedback. Maybe we can help each other improve poems as well as improve at giving feedback. But, admittedly, that is not popular with everyone.

I'm also hearing that folks prefer writing to prompts/themes over open-ended "just write a poem" type challenges. And maybe weekly is too often. Snow you mentioned once a month. We could do that.

As far as erotic versus non-erotic poems, we do currently have ongoing challenges in the Everyday Erotica and Just Porn threads. I personally like to keep challenges open to whatever type of writing is comfortable for the most people. But maybe we could run two monthly challenges, one erotic and one whatever but both theme based.

In the meantime I hope (fervently lol) to hear more opinions on what would interest people enough to participate. Maybe by like mid November I can post a poll for folks to choose what we do in 2024. But the main thing is that we keep writing together.

Keep those opinions coming please!

 

[29wordsforsnow]

Hmm, monthly. With each having four weeks, why not dedicating those weeks to certain kind of challenges. Like every first weeks for the first prompt coming to your head, the seconds for sloppy...forms, thirds for group...writing, fourth for some some seasonal - or seasoning?, and if the month has fifth: happy endings poetry

 

[butters]

i loved the same title thingies and prompts.

also, feedback and discussion is the lifeblood (imho) of any writing forum based on improving one's skills but a lot of people aren't keen on any form of critique: they take it as a rejection of what they've created, some insulted, some hurt. I wish people would understand that seeing how others read your work is a great learning tool...you don't have to agree with the opinions and can explain reasons why you chose to go with what you did, or not, but it's still valuable to see where your poem's intent, its message, got across the way you wanted it to. Added to that, the time taken to look at someone else's work with a critical eye strengthens one's own understanding of strengths and weaknesses in our own work.

 

[Angeline]

Hmm, monthly. With each having four weeks, why not dedicating those weeks to certain kind of challenges. Like every first weeks for the first prompt coming to your head, the seconds for sloppy...forms, thirds for group...writing, fourth for some some seasonal - or seasoning?, and if the month has fifth: happy endings poetry

I like your ideas but my sense is that most people want a break from the weekly Sword of Damocles hanging over them. Though, again, that might just be me. In the past we did form "teach-ins," run by the late and much missed UnderYourSpell. They were great fun but rarely drew more than the handful of regulars who don't mind trying them out. And of course Tzara's Thread of Forms is one of our best resources (and a real labor of love from him) that people can use anytime.

I do love your idea of different types of challenges throughout the month. I'm thinking maybe two (and no more than three) a month, so people won't feel burdened by too many imperative poemings lol. And even better if we have different people come up with the challenge ideas. So for example one week butters comes up with a same title challenge; two weeks later you do a "first draft" challenge with your choice of theme; and two weeks after that Ambient does an erotic poem challenge on his choice of theme and so on. Or they could start one week apart though my sense is that would be more than most people want if they also want to try out other, ongoing challenges. I'm just thinking out loud. My overall goal is to get the most participants writing together. That's always good for the forum.

 

[Angeline]

i loved the same title thingies and prompts.

also, feedback and discussion is the lifeblood (imho) of any writing forum based on improving one's skills but a lot of people aren't keen on any form of critique: they take it as a rejection of what they've created, some insulted, some hurt. I wish people would understand that seeing how others read your work is a great learning tool...you don't have to agree with the opinions and can explain reasons why you chose to go with what you did, or not, but it's still valuable to see where your poem's intent, its message, got across the way you wanted it to. Added to that, the time taken to look at someone else's work with a critical eye strengthens one's own understanding of strengths and weaknesses in our own work.

My dear poetry sister your willingness to give people clear, specific feedback always impresses me. You are very, very good at it. I have to admit I burned out on doing that years ago because, as we both know, giving detailed feedback is an investment of time and effort. And to do that and be met with defensiveness or worse yet nothing, not even a thanks, can be very discouraging. I so agree with you that people shouldn't see critique as a personal attack on their precious word baby but they often do. And as you said, they need to realize that they don't need to agree with the feedback: just be open minded and willing to learn. Personally I don't care if someone thinks my poem sucks and wants to say so. I just want them to tell me why so I can maybe learn from it. But, as someone who made a living as an editor, I have pretty thick skin about critiques. I wish we could find a kind and gentle way to get more folks interested in the workshop process.

Oh and I may have volunteered you to do a same title type challenge.

 

[Winter_Fare]

most people want a break from the weekly Sword of Damocles hanging over them.

I lasted less than a month I am super impressed with how the poem a week has caught on, but consistent effort isn't one of my strengths.

 

[Angeline]

I lasted less than a month I am super impressed with how the poem a week has caught on, but consistent effort isn't one of my strengths.

Lol I'm doing it but you should hear me bitching to my daughter about how I have to figure out another poem every week!

 

[Wonderer67]

I am open for just about anything.

I liked the poem a week challenge because it helped discipline me to write. There were weeks that I was dry and nothing was in me and there were times that poems and poetic ideas were pouring outta me.

I’d never written poetry before last year. I still have no idea what I’m doing but I think I’ve found my voice. Thanks to all of you who voiced and gave support. I feel like I have a new group of lit friends - ones who are not (total) perverts.

I would be up for any of those ideas: different/rotating themes.

I am against feedback bcz I don’t think I could really offer any constructive feedback. What you guys all create seems so fucking good. I don’t think anyone is mailing it in or providing drafts. I like the rawness of creating. Perfection is the enemy of getting anything done. I want to be punched in the face with your guys words.

And besides. This is art. You are creating something. Fuck what other people think. These poems are for me. JMO.

I would like to expand my horizons with challenges, different Therese and styles. I get scared off by the word “sonnet” but can do haiku.

Looking forward to other thoughts and opinions. And continuing to write. It’s been a really cathartic experience for me.

 

[Lyricalli]

I am against feedback bcz I don’t think I could really offer any constructive feedback. What you guys all create seems so fucking good. I don’t think anyone is mailing it in or providing drafts. I like the rawness of creating. Perfection is the enemy of getting anything done. I want to be punched in the face with your guys words.

And besides. This is art. You are creating something. Fuck what other people think. These poems are for me. JMO.

I know I've been out of sight for quite a while, but this conversation caught my eye, so thought I'd chime in. There are lots of ways of giving feedback, and it doesn't always have to be what you might think of as constructive. For instance, you can tell someone why a poem, or line or verse, resonated with you, and let them know how it was interpreted. It's pretty interesting to hear whether or not what you were putting into the poem is what someone else got out of it. Seeing your own writing through someone else's eyes can open your eyes to facets of your piece that you may not have known were there. Feedback doesn't have to be about word choices, different ways to edit, or other more technical aspects of writing that may not be of interest to either the writer or the reader.

Some people might make art just for themselves and really don't care what others think, and some might make it as a way to share something about themselves and to communicate with others, so understanding how their art is interpreted is an important part of that process. There are so many ways to art and to share art with others, and they all have their place, I think.

 

[Lyricalli]

I think perhaps two challenges a month, whether posted both at the beginning of the month or posted every couple of weeks sounds comfortable and doable as a general idea. I've barely written more than a grocery list in the last I don't know how long, so take that with a grain of salt. But, challenges do seem to get people to write more, even if not consistently, and keeps at least a little momentum going in the forum.

It's a good idea, too, to have several people coming up with challenges, because even in our quiet little forum, the pressure of coming up with new challenges once a month, much less twice, can feel a bit much.

I'm going to try, eventually, to be around a bit more. Some words have started floating around in my head a bit, so I'll see where they go. I hope you're all doing well, and it's good to see that poetry is still happening here when I peek in, and that some of our newer poets have stayed and keep writing.

 

[Wonderer67]

I know I've been out of sight for quite a while, but this conversation caught my eye, so thought I'd chime in. There are lots of ways of giving feedback, and it doesn't always have to be what you might think of as constructive. For instance, you can tell someone why a poem, or line or verse, resonated with you, and let them know how it was interpreted. It's pretty interesting to hear whether or not what you were putting into the poem is what someone else got out of it. Seeing your own writing through someone else's eyes can open your eyes to facets of your piece that you may not have known were there. Feedback doesn't have to be about word choices, different ways to edit, or other more technical aspects of writing that may not be of interest to either the writer or the reader.

Some people might make art just for themselves and really don't care what others think, and some might make it as a way to share something about themselves and to communicate with others, so understanding how their art is interpreted is an important part of that process. There are so many ways to art and to share art with others, and they all have their place, I think.

Thank you for this. I don’t think I articulated this very well yesterday. I don’t know if I will do any better now, tbh.

Being open to feedback:
I am certainly open to feedback. One of you helped me with punctuation earlier this year and it was hugely freeing. I just stopped using it. And I would certainly be open to constructive feedback. May not take it all into account, but feedback is just that: someone’s perspective. I would love for someone to say, I think you could have changed this line, or used some more powerful language, or made a comparison here or there. That would be welcome.

This writing is intensely personal for me. I write to convey an experience, a moment in time, my own feelings, my perspective of (whatever). If someone were to suggest major changes, it would probably feel like they are invalidating my experience. I don’t know how or why, but I just started journal writing to help me thru an intensely difficult time in my life and had to start therapy. I started journaling before therapy but it’s taken on a life of it’s own thru this challenge. It’s been a great outlet for me on many different levels.

I don’t know if I care so much to change what I am doing. I am certainly not an artist. Maybe I am. I am just vomiting shit out that’s in my head. And it feels good to do so.
Providing feedback?
I don’t know if I could help others, tbh. With stories, yes, and I have. But with your poems? I don’t know… They seem personal too. Your art…something you’ve created. Your experience. Your perspective. Your moments in your life.

BTW- I would like to thank this whole community. I didn’t even know what poetry was this time last year, but in my therapy it has been really helpful writing about things. I appreciate you as fellow poets/writers/journalers etc. Your encouragement, your hellos, sharing some of your personal lives w me – I feel like I know some of you now. And as for the challenges, I am up for anything. I will still probably be writing something for myself once a week just cuz it’s been a great outlet.

Guide me. I am along for the ride. (I am submissive at heart.)

 

[Tzara]

On workshop threads and workshops in general: The peer workshop is considered the core element of most graduate writing programs, but (1) this is not a graduate writing program and (2) having been in one, I didn't find it personally helpful either as the giver or receiver of peers' comments. To take it seriously involves as Angie said, a lot of work on the part of the commenter and my experience here and elsewhere is that the receiver, with notable exceptions, rarely finds it useful.

On the other hand, people are always welcome to comment on my poems, if they have something they want to say about them. But I don't know that I'd be especially interested in participating in a formal workshop thread.

I do often change my mind about things, though.

As far as challenges are concerned, I like the idea of some kind of rotating challenge, where both the theme/prompt changes and the person issuing the challenge changes. With rotating challenges, I could ignore ones that don't inspire me (or which I don't have time for, for whatever reason). Having to come up with something every week isn't difficult, but I'm quite often just writing something to write something, which has its value but isn't always especially rewarding.

Finally, I've been thinking for some time about starting a thread to talk about different elements of poetic technique. It will probably mostly be me talking to myself, but I find that writing things down helps me clarify my thinking on a topic. For example, Wonderer's comment about leaving out punctuation (inspired by a comment from Ambient, I think?) has had me thinking about the uses of punctuation in poems, and there are a couple examples I'd like to look at.

Anyway, let me just say it's always interesting reading what other people are writing about. I do appreciate you all.

 

[Angeline]

Thank you all for sharing your opinions (also yay Calli is back!). Sorry to have been AWOL in this thread for a few days. My doctor put me on a short course of a med that made me sleepy and spacey. No bueno for poetry or any discourse really.

So I'm hearing that most folks would be comfortable with two challenges per month, with different people choosing the challenge content (e.g., same title, erotica, specific form, and whatever we can dream up). I love the idea of different people deciding what the challenge will be: it's more interesting imho when more people are involved. Does that sound like a plan? Please speak up if you disagree or want to add thoughts or think I've misunderstood what y'all want. I just want the most people to write here. That's good for everyone. And, of course, if you don't like a particular challenge there are plenty of ongoing ones here or opportunities to write whatever moves you.

Wonderer thank you for reminding me that people write here for different reasons. I get focused on revising ad nauseum cause that's my thing and forget that some of us are using the forum as a form of journaling or just writing for oneself. I do, however, think of you as a poet and one who writes stuff I really look forward to reading. There are times when I've wanted to suggest ways to break your longer poems into parts to make them stronger, but I've noticed you're doing that already with some of them.

And Tzara you know I think you're a fabulous teacher so I really hope you do the poetic techniques thread (or threads). I very much look forward to reading that.

Keep those opinions coming. I'll create a sticky thread for the 2024 challenges probably in early December, once we've had more time to think about and discuss ideas and agree on details.

 

[Piscator]

In the past year and a bit, I've taken a series of 3 creative writing courses and found the workshop approach to be useful. In my case the suggestions were helpful or neutral but sometimes opened new points of view to my poetry or story. The core group of us tried to keep in touch in a Google group but is disappeared over the summer. I've also ventured into a local writers groups that meet once a month at a friendly bar and a poetry group that meets once a month either in person or mostly virtually. All have been positive experiences.

I'm a bit in awe of Tzara and would welcome an introduction/discussion on about different elements of poetic technique of which I am largely ignorant.

I'd be happy to take part in future challenges as they come up and two a month would be good,

 

[Broken_paladin]

Write a Poem about Dogs or Blowjobs or Sex in a car or Suntanning naked or Big Boobs or A fantasy lover ... (in

Challenge excepted lol

 

[Ambient4190]

HA! HA! HA!
Broken_paladin!
You used all topics in ONE SINGLE POEM!!

GEEZ!!!!!

....maybe I need to come up with a 'Starts with This' and I write the first line....or something like Snows amazing shapes of poems.....hmmm....