Not allowed to be submissive

Nezhul said:

Notice, there isn't one person here who went "Oooh, maybe he doesn't want to dominate you, and you are forcing him to do that! Poor guy! Maybe he has his reasons! He is free to choose what he wants to and with whom he wants it!"
If you were a guy and talked about a woman who wouldn't let you be her submissive - this would be the first thing you'd get.
Knowing this, I would take all the negative replies here with a grain of salt.

Click to expand...

Hey, I did list several reasons like that. Maybe not in the way of 'poor guy', because...well, he's obviously not the one suffering in this scenario. He is already doing what he wants and not willing to discuss it. Of course he has his reasons, whatever they may be, and he CAN do what he wants with whom he wants it. He already is. Doesn't matter if he was the guy or the girl in this situation.

My advice was to hash it out (put all your cards on the table) and decide from there where you want things to go. But I will say that everytime someone tries to give this guy the benefit of doubt or list a good reason things might be as they are, the OP comes back with another post that basically points to the fact that the guy is just a dick.

To the OP - not sure what advice you're looking for here. It sounds like you already have the answers, you just don't want to face the truths. The writing is on the wall. "They've been frIends for a while. Then they had sex. Now he has feelings for her. He gave her a collar (something you wanted). He gets mad when you want to talk about it. He dismisses your feelings and desires." What else needs to be said? Ten years might seem like a lot, but what would ten more years of being 'second place' feel like? You decide. Be brave and do what you need to do.

Nezhul said:

yeah well. He sounds like a dick you should dump. Or find someone else to play with if otherwise the relationship suits you.

But there may be a lot of undercurrent that I'm missing in your relationship.

Also, "too soon" is a subjective thing. It's not about the time, the counter on the clock. It's about many things, when it comes to the collar. Until you find out EXACTLY his reasons for not indulging you - too soon is as valid option as any. Too soon for you, in his mind, or too soon for him as he is now. Maybe it was OK to buy one for someone he was just messing around with, but he loves you and it's a much harder decision.

There's literally as many good explanations to his behavior as there are bad ones, and without knowing we can't tell. People in this forum often assume the worst - or rather, that the guys always tend to be abusive and girls always tend to be victims. When you post about a problem in a DS relationship, 90% of people here will assume that a submissive gets abused and the dominant is a dick. When it's a vanilla relationship. then a husband is automatically a dick.

People in this forum tend to have double standards.
If a girl is dissatisfied with her man, then he clearly doesn't do enough or is a motherfucker to begin with.
If a man, however, is dissatisfied with his woman, then he's asking her too much, and if he dares to seek advice how to fix his life the way he wants - he's an abuser, because he's forcing the poor girl to do what she doesn't want to do.
The truth? It's never so easy.

Notice, there isn't one person here who went "Oooh, maybe he doesn't want to dominate you, and you are forcing him to do that! Poor guy! Maybe he has his reasons! He is free to choose what he wants to and with whom he wants it!"
If you were a guy and talked about a woman who wouldn't let you be her submissive - this would be the first thing you'd get.
Knowing this, I would take all the negative replies here with a grain of salt.

Again, we don't know almost anything about you guys. Way you post, he comes along as an awful, abusive partner and I really can't fathom why you stayed with him at all. Like, you get almost nothing from it - that's how it sounds. But you obviously do.

The only real advice has already been given. Talk about it and get your answer as to the exact reasoning behind his actions. Then make up your mind. Maybe you are just incompatible. Maybe

Click to expand...

What the fuck?

This has nothing to do with the fact he's a guy.

She stated her needs, several times, in a pretty straightforward, honest manner. You know, how couples who value their partner's needs do.

Rather than have an on-going conversation about it or even try it, he said nope, you're not submissive enough.

Then went out and had (is having?) an emotional, D/s relationship with another woman. Lies about it but puts pictures out there for the world to see and gets caught.

In fact, we've had a couple of threads from guys who've asked similar questions about their partners and we've given similar suggestions.

No one here said he is an "abuser" as you've suggested... other than you. Toxic, weird, creepy, liar. Sure. Your sweeping generalizations get old when they're obviously pointed at one or two people.

Why does everything have to be about gender with you, Nehzul?
Well, you're asking for an argument, so let me indulge ye'.

Summary:

Nehzul said:

Most people on this forum are dumb because they always make generalizations.

Click to expand...

Well, aside from that gem of logic, I'm a guy who argued against a woman specifically because we didn't know the husband's reasons at the time, because the sex of the people in question is irrelevant...But you're selectively ignoring that because that doesn't fit into your arrogant I'm-so-enlightened mentality I guess.

cookiecat said:

You can't force him (interesting choice of words considering we're talking Dom/sub) to be interested in this kind of relationship with you. In fact, he made a choice and it WASN'T you.

Click to expand...

Nezhul said:

Notice, there isn't one person here who went "Oooh, maybe he doesn't want to dominate you, and you are forcing him to do that! Poor guy! Maybe he has his reasons! He is free to choose what he wants to and with whom he wants it!"

Click to expand...

Adding to the ?????????

Pergatory, the way this thread is going happens from time to time and your specific situation is not at all why it has derailed a bit. You have to decide what you're going to do. Do you want to spend another 10 years with a cheater and liar that tells you you're not what you believe you are? Think about it to yourself, we don't need to hear your answer.

We have a lot of information here on d/s, BDSM, and relationships in general. There are good people here that genuinely want to help, so I hope you'll stick around and explore the board a bit. Get yourself together and do what is best for you.

So, we have what? Let's check

Consilience perverting my post into an offensive quote so he could argue that.
Also ignoring the word "most" that clearly left room for his existence - and bitching about his opinion not being mentioned in my post.

Elle playing question marks game with kittens, and all innocence of an angel.

And oh, one other post that even made some points and that I can answer.

What the fuck?

This has nothing to do with the fact he's a guy.

She stated her needs, several times, in a pretty straightforward, honest manner. You know, how couples who value their partner's needs do.

Rather than have an on-going conversation about it or even try it, he said nope, you're not submissive enough.

Click to expand...

Yeah. How many times have I seen on this forum when a man comes by and says:
"Hey, I want to do this and that, but my wife won't agree. How can I persuade her?"
And a lot of people instantly go off the rails telling him to stick his wants where the sun doesn't shine because he's an awful partner for wanting to force the poor woman into something that she clearly said "no" to.

Well, here we have a man saying "no" to his woman. We don't know enough to know the details of their personalities and we don't have any real picture of the situation.
Yes, from what is written here - the man is probably a dick.
But that doesn't change the fact that this community is much more predisposed to blame him, than if the genders were reversed.

This community, for better or worse, is very protective and forgiving to woman's screw-ups, but is intolerant when a man MAY have done something wrong.

Just watch the forum for awhile and see for yourself.

If a female comes along and starts complaining about her guy - then first reaction is to blame him. Then to tell her she should dump him because she's a moron. Then blame him some more. Then comfort her that she's doing everything right and she should always stay true to her feelings and stay who she is, and if he doesn't like something - screw him.
That's the direction this thread instantly took, by the way.

If a man comes and complains about the girl - first reaction protect her. Tell him to learn to live with her. Depending on the mood and the severity of the complaints - tell him she should dump him and that he should die alone.
BEST CASE SCENARIO - tell him how he should change himself and what efforts he can take to swoon her whimseys his way, but they will be very specific that should she say no - he must immediately back up and just accept her desires for what they are.

I started paying attention to this shit about half a year ago. Very rarely there will be an exception of either of the rules.

I'm going to go through the last years worth of threads, document instances of that occurring and come back with the results and sources.

Also you said '90%' of the time the responses would, apparently with no reasoning behind it, automatically presume an abused partner is the submissive one. That's most.

I would walk away.

1) He clearly doesn't care about your sexual desires/needs.
2) He's dishonest - he told you there wasnt anything going on with her, and you discovered his lie, and
3) He gets pissed off when you try to discuss it with him.

How many more reasons do you need? For me, the refusal to communicate to work through it is the biggest deal breaker. But he sounds selfish and immature anyway, so I'm not sure what point there is in you sticking with him.

Find yourself a real Dom - someone who treats you as a sub, but also values you and cares about your fulfillment.

MeekMe said:

Pergatory, the way this thread is going happens from time to time and your specific situation is not at all why it has derailed a bit. You have to decide what you're going to do. Do you want to spend another 10 years with a cheater and liar that tells you you're not what you believe you are? Think about it to yourself, we don't need to hear your answer.

We have a lot of information here on d/s, BDSM, and relationships in general. There are good people here that genuinely want to help, so I hope you'll stick around and explore the board a bit. Get yourself together and do what is best for you.

Click to expand...

This.

Life is messy. And so are the threads, sometimes.

Good luck, Pergatory.

Pergatory said:

I just "piss him off" when talking about it.

Click to expand...

I get him. I hate to repeat myself, too. I hate it also when other people repeat themselves, too, as if I would change my opinion just because someone behaves like a broken record.

You don't take it serious when he tells you that you are not going to be his submissive and waste your time with daydreaming.

!! IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN !!

What you have left is: options. Pick one you think is right.

Nezhul said:

Just watch the forum for awhile and see for yourself.

Click to expand...

Are 10 years enough, you little butthurt wanker?

MeekMe said:

You say "not allowed to be submissive," does that mean you can't even have that fulfilled on the side? Why not find a guy that wants to be your d-type? If the 10 year relationship dude doesn't want to and won't even talk about it with you, find someone who will.

Click to expand...

I found this, and what Consilience was saying to be spot on exactly.

Consilience said:

I'm going to go through the last years worth of threads, document instances of that occurring and come back with the results and sources.

Click to expand...

'Ware ye the bullshit asymmetry principle. You can spend hours amassing the evidence to prove that Nezhul's claims are nonsense, but it only takes him seconds to pivot to some new nonsense.

Bramblethorn said:

'Ware ye the bullshit asymmetry principle. You can spend hours amassing the evidence to prove that Nezhul's claims are nonsense, but it only takes him seconds to pivot to some new nonsense.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I got through about 50 days and then realized it's probably not worth the time since his previous citations have been fabricated so it's likely that one was too.

Consilience said:

Well that's not what I just read. I thought I just read a sexually repressed person not wanting to talk about their abnormal preferences.

[Insert emphasis on lack of information]

We just read an example of a guy with abnormal sexuality refusing to share his preferences with his partner for undisclosed reasons. I'm not going to defend his secret affair, that's agreeably very toxic behaviour, but we don't know to what extent they have, if they even have, talked about the affair and the underlying factors. No information given, I can't make a judgement on an effective solution.

Click to expand...

bdsm is NOT abnormal, there's nothing bad about it. it's just a different way to be, a different way to love

learningslut said:

bdsm is NOT abnormal

Click to expand...

Of course, this statement is made by BDSM practitioners. This is called 'conflict of interest'.

learningslut said:

bdsm is NOT abnormal, there's nothing bad about it. it's just a different way to be, a different way to love

Click to expand...

Primalex said:

Of course, this statement is made by BDSM practitioners. This is called 'conflict of interest'.

Click to expand...

Some of my favorite parts of BDSM are abnormal and bad.

learningslut said:

bdsm is NOT abnormal, there's nothing bad about it. it's just a different way to be, a different way to love

Click to expand...

By my reading, less than 8% of people consider power exchange to be a fundamental aspect of their sexuality, that's definitively abnormal. Personal opinions on its moral standing are irrelevant.

Miles Long said:

Some of my favorite parts of BDSM are abnormal and bad.

Click to expand...

my point to consilience is that being submissive Dominant or switch is not inherently bad, as that sounds like what he was saying about it. yes it's bad to break limits or disrespect them or push them too far (either partner) but saying that it's out and out bad is looking at it through ignorant, probably vanilla eyes. i know if i had to go to the gyno for example, im sure if id recently served and still had a red ass, or other marks, an almighty stink would be raised "tell us who hurt you", "I'll call the police for you" *handing you a safe harbors/rainn business card and brochure regarding domestic violence* "the police are coming to take your statement and I'll take pictures of your injuries for their case". meanwhile my pussy floods when i think of how happy and well sated He and i are

*note: quotes based on the responses of two doctors i saw for injuries when i was a legitimate d.v. victim

learningslut said:

my point to consilience is that being submissive Dominant or switch is not inherently bad, as that sounds like what he was saying about it. yes it's bad to break limits or disrespect them or push them too far (either partner) but saying that it's out and out bad is looking at it through ignorant, probably vanilla eyes. i know if i had to go to the gyno for example, im sure if id recently served and still had a red ass, or other marks, an almighty stink would be raised "tell us who hurt you", "I'll call the police for you" *handing you a safe harbors/rainn business card and brochure regarding domestic violence* "the police are coming to take your statement and I'll take pictures of your injuries for their case". meanwhile my pussy floods when i think of how happy and well sated He and i are

*note: quotes based on the responses of two doctors i saw for injuries when i was a legitimate d.v. victim

Click to expand...

This is why I always ask "do you have any medical appointments coming up?" before I beat a woman.

Miles Long said:

This is why I always ask "do you have any medical appointments coming up?" before I beat a woman.

Click to expand...

I'm serious

learningslut said:

I'm serious

Click to expand...

For all my facetious tone, I'm serious too.

It is the subversive, taboo nature of many aspects of bdsm that make up a part of the appeal for me. And of course much of bdsm is abnormal in the sense that it is not mainstream. I don't think that makes it morally wrong or a less valid way to express love. In fact, for me it is one of the key ways I express love.

And I absolutely do ask play partners what areas they need to not be bruised, for the exact kinds of scenarios you mentioned.

I agree with your points, but the Internet would be far less fun if we all just said "yes that's true" all the time.