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HandsInTheDark

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In a recent story, a dominant male and submissive female revealed they were both fond of having the female required to sexually serve other men. I followed it up with a scene of that sort. This was in BDSM, not LW, and I didn't expect much backlash, and indeed I didn't get any. It's the highest rated chapter I've ever written. Another story of mine in which the theme comes up was also very highly rated, by my standards.

Which surprises me, very slightly. I do a lot with dominant and submissive themes, sometimes consensual and affectionate, sometimes edgier than that. (This was a very affectionate pair). A lot of my readership, judging by my email, is female. This leads me to suspect that, at least within the context of a trusted relationship, an awful lot of females have the fantasy of being required to sexually serve men they don't know. It doesn't surprise me at all that it's a hot thought in a non-con setting, for those into non-con. But in a consensual arrangement it apparently retains the hotness, despite (or because of) the violation of the secret, safe D/s space it implies.

Females, comment. Females with a submissive mindset, especially remark on how you'd feel in real life (and yes, I know fantasy is different) if you were told to serve another man while the dominant observed. If this turns out to be a significant fetish for a lot of readers, I could easily see trying a story in which it was a major theme.
 
It's amazing, the number of submissive females out there...

I've been a bachelor for a long time so I've dated quite a few women and I always find it surprising how many have asked to be tie up while in bed. :)

I wouldn't brag about your high scores though, that's the fastest way possible around here to get your very own troll.
 
If that was required, that would be the end of the relationship for me. For me, personally, that is a hard limit and I will not negotiate it. I'm submissive to one person and only that person and I will not be "shared." Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
MeekMe said:
If that was required, that would be the end of the relationship for me. For me, personally, that is a hard limit and I will not negotiate it. I'm submissive to one person and only that person and I will not be "shared." Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Beautiful and accurate as far as real life goes.

A true master does not share his sub because there is a degree of affection there. If they do share then it is simply an arrangement built on sex and that's it.

In other words the "porn" version of D/S which is what rules here.

I've looked at enough of the OP's work to know it goes over well here in fantasy land, but in reality they don't have a clue.
 
I'm convinced 99.99% of LIT readers and writers are lost at sea with what D/s is all about. What's expressed reminds me of what most people believe about domestic violence orders. Not one ever stopped a bullet or knife or baseball bat tho most people think the order is Superman. The soul of D/s is a male infantilizing a female.
 
So far this post has gotten one useful reply, and some off topic blathering about how people don't know what D/s is in real life. (For the record, what a D/s relationship is, is defined by exactly two people, the D and the s in question, and anyone who argues otherwise has never been either.)

If the rest of you want a thread on how story D/s and real D/s differ, go for it; I'm certain it would attract a lot of opinions from "experts" interested in establishing their credentials by trying to define dominance for the rest of us.

If any actual females, ideally practicing submissives, would like to comment on the original question, I'd be appreciative.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
A lot of my readership, judging by my email, is female. This leads me to suspect that, at least within the context of a trusted relationship, an awful lot of females have the fantasy of being required to sexually serve men they don't know. It doesn't surprise me at all that it's a hot thought in a non-con setting, for those into non-con. But in a consensual arrangement it apparently retains the hotness, despite (or because of) the violation of the secret, safe D/s space it implies.

Females, comment. Females with a submissive mindset, especially remark on how you'd feel in real life (and yes, I know fantasy is different) if you were told to serve another man while the dominant observed. If this turns out to be a significant fetish for a lot of readers, I could easily see trying a story in which it was a major theme.
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I think this fantasy sounds like a twisted cuckold situation.

I can't answer for all submissive womankind, but strange dick isn't usually at the top of the list of fantasies for most. If it's someone she knows and trusts, that's a little different (some have arrangements like that). But, if the dominant party just brought in a random guy from the street, I'd question his sanity. Even if it was someone he knew that she didn't, that's a lot of trust you'd have to have.

In fantasy, you don't have to worry about pregnancy, STDs, or bad sex. In reality, women often draw the short straw. So the reality of this fantasy totally makes it a non-fantasy for me (*and many others).

*I gathered this from a women's group discussion about fantasies involving strangers

lovecraft68 said:
Beautiful and accurate as far as real life goes.

A true master does not share his sub because there is a degree of affection there. If they do share then it is simply an arrangement built on sex and that's it.

In other words the "porn" version of D/S which is what rules here.

I've looked at enough of the OP's work to know it goes over well here in fantasy land, but in reality they don't have a clue.
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Thanks. :eek:

I can't comment on what's true or not (for others), but I'm of the monogamous mindset (so no sharing). I'm sure there are others that feel differently. Some may actually want that to be a reality. I think though, you're right about the fantasy vs. reality. Something that sounds hot in my head, is horrendous in reality (think alien abductions).


HandsInTheDark said:
So far this post has gotten one useful reply, and some off topic blathering about how people don't know what D/s is in real life. (For the record, what a D/s relationship is, is defined by exactly two people, the D and the s in question, and anyone who argues otherwise has never been either.)

If the rest of you want a thread on how story D/s and real D/s differ, go for it; I'm certain it would attract a lot of opinions from "experts" interested in establishing their credentials by trying to define dominance for the rest of us.

If any actual females, ideally practicing submissives, would like to comment on the original question, I'd be appreciative.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it was "off topic blathering." It was simply commenting on the fantasy vs reality aspect of your post. You're right that the relationship is only defined by those in it.

You can't stop people from commenting here, open discussion board and all.
 
I'm a r/l submissive. The concept of being handed over to a stranger without any prior preparation or discussion horrifies me. I would do it, because Master requested it of me, and I would trust him to know much more about the person than I would, but it would rock my world in a bad way. Knowledge and a degree of consent are important to me.

Now, if it were discussed beforehand, that would be completely different. I would still hope that I would be allowed a voice in the arrangements, and I would seek to understand why he was making this change in our relationship.
 
Somebody really into BDSM doesn't sit down and read anyone else's "rules" about what is legitimate BDSM and what is not. They just do what they want and can get away with. They probably don't even catalog it in their mind. If you tie someone up, it's called bondage, no matter what some BDSM clubbist wants to rule it is. And if you whip somebody during sex, it's S&M, again no matter what some BDSM clubbist wants to rule it is. What it's labeled is determined by what it is, not a BDSM's club rule list; and there's no "rule book" constraint on doing whatever it is that gets you off sexually. If you control someone well enough that they'll have sex with someone else on command, a BDSM clubbist can certainly blow a whistle and call it a foul, but you can just flip them the finger. Because there are no rules for this either--either in doing it or writing it up in a story.
 
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HandsInTheDark, I think it is relevant to note that in your latest story, "Why I hate my roommate", the sub being shared with strangers was in that...lifestyle? prior to meeting her dom. He was one of the strangers she was with.

I think that explains a lot about why she wouldn't freak out about it and why, as a reader, I don't think she'd freak out about.
 
Female, not a submissive, but it sounds like a hot fantasy to me. Then again, I usually hang out with my fellow degenerates in NonCon, so... yeah.
 
I know exactly what you mean.

I started writing bdsm stories these past few months, and I've noticed that many of profiles and private messages are women.

It wasn't a huge surprise since I already knew it was a big fantasy for women. Someone even did a study on Literotica and found that bdsm has many female readers

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/most-erotic-word-psychologist-reveals-5018179

As for popular themes in the category, the essence of bdsm, in my view (and most others) is the mindset. One person gives up control of their body to another person. If you understand the psychology, then you're in the right direction.
 
HeyAll said:
It wasn't a huge surprise since I already knew it was a big fantasy for women. Someone even did a study on Literotica and found that bdsm has many female readers
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There can be no such conclusions. You can only take what gender Lit. posters claim to be (and many make no claim at all), not what they really are. So all such studies are fallacious.
 
HeyAll said:
I know exactly what you mean.

I started writing bdsm stories these past few months, and I've noticed that many of profiles and private messages are women.

It wasn't a huge surprise since I already knew it was a big fantasy for women. Someone even did a study on Literotica and found that bdsm has many female readers

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/most-erotic-word-psychologist-reveals-5018179

As for popular themes in the category, the essence of bdsm, in my view (and most others) is the mindset. One person gives up control of their body to another person. If you understand the psychology, then you're in the right direction.
Click to expand...

I've gotten positive comments on my stories from male and female readers. :)
 
I'm male but I've had more than one female tell me that, under the right circumstances, they could find it hot to have their favors given to another. Or others...
 
How would I feel in real life if I was "told to serve another man while the dominant observed?"
Shocked

I would do as my D-type friend requested, but I doubt he would ask this of me... he's said on numerous occasions that he'd prefer not to have another man's cock anywhere near me ... he [like most men?] would like to include another woman in our play, *not* another man.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
A lot of my readership, judging by my email, is female. This leads me to suspect that, at least within the context of a trusted relationship, an awful lot of females have the fantasy of being required to sexually serve men they don't know.
Click to expand...

What you're describing is called pimping (and it's the same basic dynamic whether money is exchanged or not). RL conensual subs are horrified by it because RL D/s relationships are not about pimping, they're about romantic roleplaying. Pimping is about a much baser form of predatory exploitation of fear, insecurity and Daddy/daughter psychology (as another poster said, infantilization*) in order to get a woman to cross boundaries they would or could not otherwise cross. It's essentially a variant of male dominance fantasy centred around manipulation / deception / intimidation, or IOW a variant of noncon fantasy, and the aspect of your readership that's into it is probably zeroing in on that.

It's not uncommon to find noncon fantasy overlapping with BDSM fantasy, of course. This very trope occurs in The Story of O, a classic of BDSM lit. But you should only employ it if you're not concerned about the RL niceties of your fiction's connection with actual BDSM practice.

(* And I mean, the language really isn't coincidental. A pimp is always "daddy" or some variant thereof because that's specifically the psychological role he's assuming / usurping. The hooker is usually a "bitch" because bestializing and devaluing her is a way of withholding fatherly approval, which has to be operative 90% of the time to make the predatory relationship work. The rare moments in which she's called "baby" or "baby girl" are all the more precious to her as a result, and part of the manipulation.)
 
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I've edited a few BDSM series. One was in the Erotic Couplings category, the other in Mind Control. I thought they both belonged in SciFi/Fantasy, but it wasn't my call to make. Both series, though, did well in their categories and received decent scores and comments. I enjoyed editing both series and although I found the BDSM themes appealing sexually, the stories would have succeeded without any sex. And if the BDSM themes had been about making the subs infantile or about manipulating them into sex with others, I wouldn't have edited the stories.
 
I personally don't know about not editing something on those grounds, it would depend on the specifics, but I'd probably try to steer someone away from portraying that kind of relationship without its various "tells."
 
CyranoJ said:
I personally don't know about not editing something on those grounds, it would depend on the specifics, but I'd probably try to steer someone away from portraying that kind of relationship without its various "tells."
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I'm assuming you're referring to my comment since you mentioned editing. I'm not sure what you're saying. Could you clarify?
 
Sorry, that was a clumsy way of saying that if this form of "pimping" were to appear in a story I'd want it to be portrayed with some psychological realism.
 
CyranoJ said:
Sorry, that was a clumsy way of saying that if this form of "pimping" were to appear in a story I'd want it to be portrayed with some psychological realism.
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Thanks, Cyrano.
 
CyranoJ said:
What you're describing is called pimping (and it's the same basic dynamic whether money is exchanged or not). RL conensual subs are horrified by it because RL D/s relationships are not about pimping, they're about romantic roleplaying. Pimping is about a much baser form of predatory exploitation of fear, insecurity and Daddy/daughter psychology (as another poster said, infantilization*) in order to get a woman to cross boundaries they would or could not otherwise cross. It's essentially a variant of male dominance fantasy centred around manipulation / deception / intimidation, or IOW a variant of noncon fantasy, and the aspect of your readership that's into it is probably zeroing in on that.

It's not uncommon to find noncon fantasy overlapping with BDSM fantasy, of course. This very trope occurs in The Story of O, a classic of BDSM lit. But you should only employ it if you're not concerned about the RL niceties of your fiction's connection with actual BDSM practice.

(* And I mean, the language really isn't coincidental. A pimp is always "daddy" or some variant thereof because that's specifically the psychological role he's assuming / usurping. The hooker is usually a "bitch" because bestializing and devaluing her is a way of withholding fatherly approval, which has to be operative 90% of the time to make the predatory relationship work. The rare moments in which she's called "baby" or "baby girl" are all the more precious to her as a result, and part of the manipulation.)
Click to expand...

What you're describing is a Master and Slave relationship, not your typical BDSM or D/s relationship. As far as I know, most subs have a safe word, and once it's said, the action stops, because it's all about trust on the sub's part. If the sub doesn't use the safe word, that's them giving their permission to continue.

There are also plenty of women out there that enjoy being with other men. Swingers are one group, among many.

As far as pimps, well you're only using the term as it applies to the monsters that now control the cheep street whores or hookers. In the far past, pimps worked outside brothels, enticing or procuring customers for the whores inside. They were paid by the brothel usually, and had nothing to do with the girls.

Lovecraft would know more about this, but I doubt there are many scenarios where the Dom does this against his/her sub's will.
 
lowphat said:
As far as pimps, well you're only using the term as it applies to the monsters that now control the cheep street whores or hookers.
Click to expand...

Well, I actually think the psychology of the arrangement generalizes beyond just the stereotypical street pimp, they're just the most pop-culture-recognizable form of it. (The form of procurer that worked for a brothel is very specific by comparison.) I wouldn't be surprised to find variants of it that advertise as a "Master/Slave relationship" but I'd contend it's probably all the same basic phenomenon. Granted specifics of terminology will vary... and of course all of this is bracketing out the various forms of trafficker who use even baser and more coercion-based techniques.
 
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