The Shopkeeper

embarrassedBut said:

It wasn't you MelissaBaby; someone sent a criticism that hit too close to home. In my every day life, I do not use the explicit language that appears in my stories. The person said I used the P word and C word too much. I read other stories where they use synonyms but I'm not sure it makes it better. Is it erotica or is it smut? He said definitely smut.

I don't think the story actually starts to come together until chapter 4. I guess I will see how it goes now that chapter 2 is up. ElectricBlue66 said my paragraphs were too long. Chapter 1 had too little dialog. Chapter 2 has a lot fewer long paragraphs.

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I didn't think it was directed at me.

I said I didn't buy into what you said about not controlling your stories, but that's just my opinion. If thinking of it that way works for you, that's great. I do think, however, that you might want to consider how such a claim reads to those of us who work hard at plotting out our stories, developing the characters, imaging the settings and all the other things that go into our writing. Hell, I spent an hour just trying to figure out what to name a boat in one of my stories. No voice in my head said "Name it the Moneta." I had to make clear to myself what the purpose of having the character travel in the boat was to begin with and what the journey represented to him. When I understood that it was about him revisiting a similar voyage in his past, I knew the boat's name had to reflect that, that it must relate to memory. I researched mythology about memory and found that the Greek goddess of memory is Mnemosyne.But, who is going to name a frickin' boat Mnemosyne? So I dug further and found that the Roman equivalent is Moneta.

A voice in my head could have saved me some trouble, huh?

As for your content, if it passes Laurel's bar, fine. If it doesn't, deal with it. Maybe you won't be able to post here. Wherever it comes from, write what you feel you must write.

That's good. The anonymous criticism came via email.

If you work hard to produce your stories, I expect you enjoy it. I do not! In the movie Ghost, Sam harasses Ida Mae until she helps him. That's what my voice does. It takes up my evenings and kills my weekends. And leaves me exhausted all the time. And then there's the point where I reach a really good ending. I think it's over. But it continues. This story and another doesn't have a clean ending; it just reached a point where nothing new came.

Have you ever read Auel's Earth's Children series. It's really good with lots of explicit sex. I tend to skip over the sex; it's pretty superfluous to the story and the story is really good. After a few years have passed and I look over the stories I have written down, I liked it. I loved the way the relationships developed and grew. I became curious if other's would like it. The story is from the voice in my head. But the story is visual; I have to translate the visual into words. And format it.

So I continue to question whether this is smut or erotica. The Supreme Court ruled some time ago that that answer to that was a community decisions. At the beginning of the internet, some communities tried to impose their standards on the entire internet. Those were interesting times.

Thank you for pointing out the bit about writers like you that work hard on plotting out your stories. I'm sorry that I don't put any effort like that; it just flows out of my head. I'm most interested in feedback on shopkeeper. Right now, I think he seems a little creepy. You'll learn a lot more about him in chapter 4. There's a good chance I'll submit chapter 3 tonight.

You're starting to lead your own chorus here. You're asking folk to comment on material they won't see for another two chapters, but you've got people like me who can't get past chapter one.

Maybe you should focus on advice like Melissa has given (she too has embarked on a long, wide ranging story) and concentrate on the craft, discipline and slog of writing, and get polished content out there.

At this point, this thread is all trailer, no feature. Your opening post was interesting to me, which is why I responded. Now I just think you need to get on with it, and come back when you're done.

If I wrote my stories as they flowed out of my head, no one would read them.

I usually write on outline of what like to see covered within the chapter: details, mood, etc. Then, I write all the dialogue for the chapter before I move to writing the narrative around the dialogue. By the time I’m finished, I have an idea of my chapter length. Once that is in a rough drafted form, I begin editing it for mistakes(and we all make them)

As far as being a man writing from a woman’s point of view. Hogwash! I’m a transvestite and I write my stories from that perspective. Granted, I’ve had a lifetime to hone my craft, but it’s doable. What’s hard is to convince the reader that the transvestite character is not a woman because some people get into my stories and realize the “woman” is a transvestite. Sorry.

As for huge block walls of text, I don’t do that. It’s painful to read and sounds like some long winded college professor lecturing a class. Break things up. Instead of having to say a character “thinks”, consider having the character mumble, murmur, thought aloud, etc.

Example from one of my stories:

“This sucks,” I mumble, turning off the computer,
stepping away from it.

“I need to get out of the house tonight and get laid,” I sigh,
sliding my ankle-high boots off my feet, stripping myself
naked, “before I go fucking crazy.”

“So jerking off is not an option - not tonight,” I add, sifting
through my wardrobe for something slutty to wear.

The same person (I) is speaking, but what I’m saying is in in different locations, at the computer, at my wardrobe. I’m speaking aloud, to myself. No huge wall of text.

Others on this thread have given great pointers. Take what you can use, but don’t assume we all aren’t giving good advice. How the story flows from your head will never translate into an exact rendition from imagination to text. That’s an unrealistic expectation you should eradicate from your thinking.
Kant

I submitted chapter 3 without putting much work into it. I am putting the work into chapter 4. I don't really like the first 3 chapters; nothing but gratuitous sex. Chapter 4 is where the relationships start forming.

I like the relationships. I like stories like BlewWater69 writes. Especially Nurse Jenny. I wish my stories were like that. Maybe it is. Although this story starts with sex, I still have a couple of chapters to go before my main character is introduced.

I just wanted the people who posted here to know that I appreciate the feedback. Chapter 2 had already been submitted. Chapter 3 was as ready as chapter 2 had been. I could have put the time into it but I got discouraged and just submitted it thinking I was done. But I had also typed out chapter 4. It still needed a spell and grammar check. But I like chapter 4 so I read it. And noticed things I bet were in the previous chapters. I'll hold off submitting it until I've read it though it a final time.

I've gotta say, you're not doing the best sell job on your work, here. If you don't give a fuck about it, and post it slap-dash without editing it as best you can, why on earth do you expect any readers to care?

You do realise you've got to put a bit of effort into this writing caper?

electricblue66 said:

I've gotta say, you're not doing the best sell job on your work, here. If you don't give a fuck about it, and post it slap-dash without editing it as best you can, why on earth do you expect any readers to care?

You do realise you've got to put a bit of effort into this writing caper?

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I think you underestimate how much effort went into getting started. I've thought about it off and on over the past year. Sometimes, you just have to jump into the water.

There is that! It was a frustrating start. I had 2 chapters of a story ready to go before I signed up. But the sign up got delayed because I never got the activation email. Nor did I get a response when I tried support a couple of days later.

Eventually, I gave up on that username and created another id with another email address. And that worked. It was then that I proofread it one last time and posted it. And then waited. The weekend passed with no action. I'm not complaining; this is what happened. It was my first posting and I didn't know what to expect. And then came the rejection.

Although it was formatted as I had been taught, it was not formatted correctly for this site. Or for internet consumption I am now told. That was easy. The big problem was as I stated earlier in the thread; that story starts when the characters are in high school and only one is actually 18. I spent a couple of weeks trying to figure out how to fix the age problem; and failed.

I was about to give up when I remember that The Shopkeeper only has adults. Eventually, the children of the characters will begin experimenting with sex and the characters will have to deal with that. But that can probably be dealt with in an manner that is acceptable.

I did rush it but I do have a few thousand views and been tagged as favorite a few times. I find some encouragement from that. So I will see how well chapter 4 is received.

Start off easy

I think the advice to start off with writing a short(ish) stand alone story is a good one. I would think that because that’s what I did with my first story that came out 7 days ago and initially got rejected.

The main reason for rejection was because I didn’t think it necessary to do anything but merely glance at the guidelines rather than actually read them. Stupidity on my part.

I wrote it as if it was an essay at school and it was then pointed out to me that it didn’t fit in with what was required for Literotica. So it was rejected. It was also rejected because it contained rape in which the victim did not receive any gratification. So it was rejected. I took the advice on board and altered the story accordingly and it was accepted. Really quite simple and the story didn’t suffer at all.

As for the voices in your head all writers have that happening. It’s called imagination and without it you cannot write any stories and the best writers are those with great imagination and the ability to convert their thoughts into an enjoyable read. But you also have to control those “voices” because otherwise what comes out is an unintelligible mess.

Emirus said:

I wrote it as if it was an essay at school and it was then pointed out to me that it didn’t fit in with what was required for Literotica. So it was rejected. It was also rejected because it contained rape in which the victim did not receive any gratification. So it was rejected. I took the advice on board and altered the story accordingly and it was accepted. Really quite simple and the story didn’t suffer at all.

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What do you mean, you "wrote it as if it was an essay at school?" What school encourages students to write such hateful material as your story? That's just horrible.

Emirus said:

I think the advice to start off with writing a short(ish) stand alone story is a good one. I would think that because that’s what I did with my first story that came out 7 days ago and initially got rejected.

The main reason for rejection was because I didn’t think it necessary to do anything but merely glance at the guidelines rather than actually read them. Stupidity on my part.

I wrote it as if it was an essay at school and it was then pointed out to me that it didn’t fit in with what was required for Literotica. So it was rejected. It was also rejected because it contained rape in which the victim did not receive any gratification. So it was rejected. I took the advice on board and altered the story accordingly and it was accepted. Really quite simple and the story didn’t suffer at all.

As for the voices in your head all writers have that happening. It’s called imagination and without it you cannot write any stories and the best writers are those with great imagination and the ability to convert their thoughts into an enjoyable read. But you also have to control those “voices” because otherwise what comes out is an unintelligible mess.

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Okay, you mentioned it contains “rape”. Granted, there are a few words you can’t use as tags to your stories that delve into the realms of non-consent / reluctance, but you can get away with more putting a story that contains a rape scene in it by submitting in the “non human” category.

I wrote a story when I first started submitting to Lit 2 years ago. “My Brother’s Ghost” it’s in Non -human and the only sex scene is a rape scene located in chapter 5. It’s not my best writing material example, but it wasn’t rejected either. Then again, is it even possible to rape a ghost?

Every time I reread chapter 4, I see something I left out, something that could be better, or something that is just wrong. I'm getting tired of reading that same thing over and over again! In school, I had a deadline. I had to turn it in no matter how imperfect it was.

And proofreading didn't do any good if it was typed; no practical way to correct it. I went to school back in the dinosaur days before word processors. While typing, I had to listen for the ding, finish the word I was on and hit carriage return. And inevitably, the paper would fall to the floor as I had run off the end of the page. At least on the retype, I knew where to stop. Except I proofread before I retyped the page and the revisions would change where I needed to stop.

Soon, I'm going to say "screw it, it'll never be perfect!" and submit it. It's not like I will get paid more if it is perfect.

embarrassedBut said:

Every time I reread chapter 4, I see something I left out, something that could be better, or something that is just wrong. I'm getting tired of reading that same thing over and over again! In school, I had a deadline. I had to turn it in no matter how imperfect it was.

And proofreading didn't do any good if it was typed; no practical way to correct it. I went to school back in the dinosaur days before word processors. While typing, I had to listen for the ding, finish the word I was on and hit carriage return. And inevitably, the paper would fall to the floor as I had run off the end of the page. At least on the retype, I knew where to stop. Except I proofread before I retyped the page and the revisions would change where I needed to stop.

Soon, I'm going to say "screw it, it'll never be perfect!" and submit it. It's not like I will get paid more if it is perfect.

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What's this got to do with now? I hardly think you're using a typewriter to prepare your text. It's possible to get very good copy even if you self edit, provided you're patient, methodical and disciplined. Others can do it. Is there a point to all this?

electricblue66 said:

What's this got to do with now? I hardly think you're using a typewriter to prepare your text. It's possible to get very good copy even if you self edit, provided you're patient, methodical and disciplined. Others can do it. Is there a point to all this?

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Sometimes, you will post something very helpful. And then you post something like this.

Argument in an empty room

electricblue66 said:

What do you mean, you "wrote it as if it was an essay at school?" What school encourages students to write such hateful material as your story? That's just horrible.

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After reading all your comments on this thread and others in respect of new writers asking for advice I’ve concluded that you are the type of person who would cause an argument in an empty room because with no one else there you would have an argument with yourself. You are obviously not a stupid person yet you seem to want to give that impression.

The formatting required by literotica is totally different from the writing style of mainstream writers and how I was taught to write a story when at school. I’m sure you realised that was the point that I was making not that I would be allowed, or would want, to write a school essay with the content of Cherry. When you deliberately misinterpret what someone else has said it doesn’t make you appear clever. Rather the opposite. Therefore when you do write a worthwhile comment you shouldn’t be surprised that it’s ignored because people are no longer reading your comments.

Well, the bad news is that chapter 1 of this story got sent back for underage sex. It was reported by someone that didn't actually read it. That person didn't actually read it!

The good news is that I took a few minutes to correct the grammar before sending it back with a protest.

embarrassedBut said:

Sometimes, you will post something very helpful. And then you post something like this.

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Because I was genuinely trying to understand what your point actually was, in that post. You're talking about something in your post that makes no sense. What do typewriters, paper-based editing/proofing systems have to do with your current editing issues?

I assume you are using Word or something similar, with spell check, grammar check, find and replace capability, etc., all of which make editing (if you know the basic rules of grammar, which you obviously do) a lot easier than in the "good old days".

Mate, I had to hand-write my university essays because only the wealthy students could afford typewriters, let alone electric typewriters. Now that disciplines you to getting your first draft as good as possible, out of your head, because no-one wants to write 5000 words out by hand more than twice (draft, final).

So no, I didn't get the point of your post. I do get that you keep finding proofing mistakes every time you read it through. So do we all, but getting good copy can be hard work. All it means is you need to read it through again. And again. And again. Or find an editor to do it for you.

Emirus said:

The formatting required by literotica is totally different from the writing style of mainstream writers and how I was taught to write a story when at school. I’m sure you realised that was the point that I was making not that I would be allowed, or would want, to write a school essay with the content of Cherry. When you deliberately misinterpret what someone else has said it doesn’t make you appear clever. Rather the opposite. Therefore when you do write a worthwhile comment you shouldn’t be surprised that it’s ignored because people are no longer reading your comments.

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No, I did not realise that was your point - but I now see that you are the second person in a row writing as they were taught to write in school, and that's what you and embarrassedBut are struggling with now.

Sometimes I'm just slow on the uptake. Particularly on Saturday mornings before my first coffee, and particularly when I've just read a most unpleasant story about rape and humiliation, decidely not erotic. Not for me, anyway; and okay, you gave me the shits because I wasn't looking for that, never look for that, would never have read it, would never have commented if I'd known the story content. And none of this stupid debate would have happened.

No, I did not deliberately misinterpret your essay comment. I obviously didn't read it closely enough, and I misinterpreted it, sure, but not deliberately. Yes, you'd gone on my radar because of your unpleasant story, so you copped Uncle Grumpy being grumpy, so that probably was unfair of me.

So fuck it, let's both put it down to miscommunication and forget about it. We're all amateurs, after all, just fucking about with words, self-delusion, and our fantasies. Just tell us it's non-con, next time, so those that don't like, don't even go look.

The editing of Literotica is NOT different from mainstream, quality writing. So says a card-carrying grammar nazi

AwkwardMD said:

The editing of Literotica is NOT different from mainstream, quality writing. So says a card-carrying grammar nazi

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Bullshit. Who do you think you're fooling? Most Literotica folks putting out an editor's shingle haven't been anywhere close to an editing class, let alone having picked up the credentials to be competently working with someone else's manuscript. Best you can count on here is another set of eyes, which is good to have in itself.

Feel free to PM me your credentials. Mine were registered with the Editors Board Moderator years ago.

Group hug in effect....Time to kiss and makeup

Kantarii said:

Group hug in effect....Time to kiss and makeup

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Copy that. Yesterday was my shitty day. Today I'm all sweetness and light .

MelissaBaby said:

I'm having some trouble buying the "I don't have control over the stories" thing. The voice in your head is your own voice, it doesn't come from out of the blue.

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Really? happens to me all the time. i plan scene 1, then scene 2, then scene 3 etc. Then start writing. And suddenly the heroine ain't going into scene 3. No siree. Not going to go there. Better figure out another scene.

astuffedshirt_perv said:

Really? happens to me all the time. i plan scene 1, then scene 2, then scene 3 etc. Then start writing. And suddenly the heroine ain't going into scene 3. No siree. Not going to go there. Better figure out another scene.

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You said it, yourself, you "plan". The OP claims to have no control over what he writes at all.

sr71plt said:

Bullshit. Who do you think you're fooling? Most Literotica folks putting out an editor's shingle haven't been anywhere close to an editing class, let alone having picked up the credentials to be competently working with someone else's manuscript. Best you can count on here is another set of eyes, which is good to have in itself.

Feel free to PM me your credentials. Mine were registered with the Editors Board Moderator years ago.

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The original point was the opposite of yours.

OP insisted that he is doing his editing and that his grammar is solid, but that Literotica uses a different standard. This is simply not true. The english language is, for the most part, homogenous. There are no special grammar rules for Literotica that ASSTR doesn't like, or Amazon grammar rules that Literotica rejects.

You, though, are just an asshole who likes to get insulted. Whoever taught you how to conduct and contribute to an argument did it wrong.