The Shopkeeper

[embarrassedBut]

I've actually been writing down these stories for years. I say I write them down because I have trouble saying that I wrote them. It's not just that the content embarrasses me but because I don't have any control over the story. A scene will start playing out in my head. It will repeat until I get on my computer and write it down. Then the next scene will play out until it gets written down. Plot twists come as a surprise to me. It consumes significant amount of my time.

I've been writing these stories and never intended for anyone else to read them. A couple of years ago, I was writing my third story when I mentioned it to some friends. They encouraged me to try to publish them. They cited locations where I could do this under a pseudonym. It had to be that way because the explicit sexual content embarrasses me. Most of what I found are cites that appear to sell editorial services. I want to know how interesting my stories are.

I have 3 stories; 4 if you count one that is a short spin off of one of the 3. 2 stories cannot be published here; the involve 40 year relationship that start when the characters are under 18. In truth, all of the stories have that but The Shopkeeper doesn't have it until a long, long way into it. The parents of those characters don't meet until chapter 5.

What scares me about my stories are the main characters. A lot of time, the story is written from the perspective of a female character. I am a man; what do I know of being a woman? How are women going to react to my portrayal of them? One of the stories that can't be published her involves a main character that is a lesbian woman. I gloss over details of their sexual encounters. But even without that, I am writing something for which I know nothing.

My characters actually live in my imagination. I submit chapter 1 of a story only to have it rejected. I could kind of fix the age problem by hiding the age of a character. Chapter 2 and 3 were impossible to fix. I had a couple of ideas but my characters got together and discussed the changes. They rejected all of them. And for good reasons.

I have these thoughts on my mind but I have no one to discuss them with. I thought I would post here and see what others have to say.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It sounds to me that you are being driven to share your material, but what I don't know, can't tell, is whether your internal world is entirely fictional, or autobiographical.

Many writers talk of their characters taking over the story, insisting that it be told. Indeed, I'm a writer like that; I rarely plot, I just start writing from some little idea, and wait to see where the story goes.

You say your characters won't let rewrite their younger selves. Okay, strike a deal with them. Leave their teenage life alone, start writing them from 21, 22, somewhat older. If they're as powerful as you say they are, sooner or later they'll insist on being written.

Sooner or later, you won't be able to stop them.

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

My suggestion is to discuss it with a woman to better understand your material from the female POV. Use her words; not yours. If you can.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Chapter 1 is published. https://www.literotica.com/s/the-shopkeeper-ch-01

ElectricBlue, your comments are pretty much on the mark. It isn't that they won't let me rewrite the story, it's that I haven't come up with a rewrite they will accept. And it has been rewritten in a way that is acceptable to them. Originally, the youngest girl was 14. I was uncomfortable with that. So I aged her up to 16. It actually worked out better in a later chapter. Her mother found her birth control pills and wanted to have a talk with her. She told her mother that she didn't want to repeat the talk multiple times. She asked if her dad could be there. In fact, the thought her boyfriend and his parents should be involved. Which happened. The first thing the parents said was that it was illegal. But they had done their homework; age of consent was 16 in their state.

But other changes didn't work. I thought of making her an 18 year old sophomore but doubted that would pass. Making everyone 18 was too thin. Picking up when the youngest is 18 was considered but the story wasn't interesting. The sex is only interesting to me the first time. Not "losing your virginity" first time. It's first time two people have sex. The story of how you go from saying "Hello" to a stranger to their undressing. What is it that leads her to wanting him to pull down her panties. Nothing erotic happens for a couple of years. There are 5 characters. It isn't until one of them brings home his new wife that things get interesting again. Okay, there is something interesting going on with the character and the woman that he eventually marries. But I don't see that as interesting enough.

I did do a parody rewrite of chapter 2. It was an exercise in a rewrite that had them not having sex. But the character that marries someone not in the original chapters objected because he would never have met her. But I found that rewrite to be amusing enough. I've submitted it but it gets rejected because it is chapter 2. They want chapter 1. THERE IS NO CHAPTER 1. Chapter 2 is the only chapter of that particular story line. I thought of redoing chapter 1 but it just isn't amusing. I'm not doing chapter 1 just so they'll accept chapter 2.

ThatsTheGuy: I agree. Talking it over with a woman is a great idea. "If I can" is the catch. I would really like to talk about my lesbian characters with a lesbian or two. But they don't tend to want to talk to a man.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Alluding to underage sex is allowed on Lit if you don't explicitly describe it. I was faced with a similar dilemma to yours in writing the second chapter of My Fall and Rise. The story could not be told without reference to underage sexual activity. My solution was to have the narrator refer to it without detail:

In a small town fifteen miles from the nearest movie theater, thirty miles from the nearest shopping mall, there were only a few means by which I could appease my restlessness. By the time I graduated from high school, I was well acquainted with liquor, with marijuana and with men.

That passed muster with Laurel and was published. It's not ideal, but it made the point that needed to be made, in a form acceptable for publication.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Alluding to underage sex is allowed on Lit if you don't explicitly describe it. I was faced with a similar dilemma to yours .... The story could not be told without reference to underage sexual activity. My solution was to have the narrator refer to it without detail. That passed muster with Laurel and was published. It's not ideal, but it made the point that needed to be made, in a form acceptable for publication.

I considered doing it that way. The problem is that a lot of plot details are woven into their first time sex. Replacing that with "Debbie and Bobby went to her room and had sex while Johnny watched" also leaves out plot details. In the passion of the moment, they forgot to put on the condom. I have no problem with "Debbie had sex with other boys but Bobby was her main guy." Chapter 3 is even worse when Suzie (Bobby's older sister) has sex with Johnny. Actually, Suzie is having sex with her boyfriend Henry in chapter 1 and chapter 1. They are both high school seniors so I expect I could get away with that; I've read other stories were high school seniors had sex. But this is the fall and we later find out that her mother got pregnant in the summer. So Suzie is 17 in chapter 1. I don't like being deceptive! But chapter 3 is important because in 4 years, she is months away from marrying Henry - and does - when her mother tells her about a mistake she might have made. She wants her daughter to give a lot of thought to Johnny. Suzie had been totally unaware her occasional lover was in love with her. Actually Suzie and Henry are married for around 30 years when Henry dies. By then, Johnny's wife had died a few years earlier and she marries Johnny.

The relationships are complex and intertwined with the sex that happens in high school. The conversations they have are very superficial before sex but are a lot more intimate starting just before. There is just no way to separate the two. Plus, it isn't erotica any more. Actually, I with I could remove the sex. I would feel a lot more comfortable with other people reading my stories if the explicit sex scenes could be removed.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I should have proofread my previous post but I got in a hurry. Not "her boyfriend Henry in chapter 1 and chapter 1. They are both high school seniors" but "her boyfriend Henry in chapter 1. In chapter 1, they are both high school seniors"

 

[ElectricBlue]

I read your story, trying to understand the issue. It's a bit of a mess, really.

I'm surprised Laurel didn't bounce it back on grammar and paragraph construction alone - the convention is for dialogue to be a new paragraph, yours is all blocked within the text. Paragraphs are too long, it became an effort to read.

You need to work on your basic writing skills first, before you dwell so much on the story - because the story is fairly incomprehensible, to be honest. Somewhere there's a clueless young wife, a shopkeeper who now has incriminating surveillance video, and I guess something was shop lifted. I think I read this, but I have no idea really what it was all about or why anything was going on.

It's clearly very important to you, from the effort being put into this thread, but it's not coming through in the words, I'm afraid.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I read your story, trying to understand the issue. It's a bit of a mess, really.

I'm surprised Laurel didn't bounce it back on grammar and paragraph construction alone - the convention is for dialogue to be a new paragraph, yours is all blocked within the text. Paragraphs are too long, it became an effort to read.

You need to work on your basic writing skills first, before you dwell so much on the story - because the story is fairly incomprehensible, to be honest. Somewhere there's a clueless young wife, a shopkeeper who now has incriminating surveillance video, and I guess something was shop lifted. I think I read this, but I have no idea really what it was all about or why anything was going on.

It's clearly very important to you, from the effort being put into this thread, but it's not coming through in the words, I'm afraid.

I truly appreciate the feedback. It was originally written for just me; I never planned to share it. I am puzzled about your comment on grammar. I know there is some incorrect grammar but it is in quotes. What people say isn't always grammatically correct.

I will review my story with your comments in mind. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I am very discouraged.

I'm told there are grammar problems. The narration grammar looks pretty spot on. But I can't do anything about bad grammar in what is spoken by my characters. Or in what they think.

It would be fair to criticize my style. It drifts from third person to first person. I rarely use quotes when the dialog is actually what someone is thinking. I don't like to have three lines of dialog that end with ", he thought." To me, it destroys the story to find out none of the other characters heard what you thought was being spoken.

I've had issues with formatting. I type the story as it plays out in my head. Of course, there are all kinds of formatting problems at that time. But then I go through it correcting things. Polishing some phrasing here and there. But then my computer seems to stop accepting input from my keyboard. When it finally starts, some of my keystrokes will be received but not all and in random spots. And then there's my editor. More than once, it replaced all my soft line endings with hard one. And when I copy and paste it into the submission form, it's totally wacky. I have learned to get it perfect, save it, close the editor and reopen the editor with the story. That seems to fix the soft to hard problem. But correcting the same formatting problems multiple times is prone to leave some in place.

"My paragraphs are too long." I reread it. It follows all the rules I was taught in high school and college. Are there new rules? The original text has really long paragraphs.

And now, I have someone posting a comment that my story doesn't belong here. I am interested in some constructive criticism. I have another story called "Girlfriend's Little Brother". I have cited some issues that I had with that one. Someone has taken the issues I had with GLB, applied them to The Shopkeeper, and reported me to the owners. There will not be a 14 year old girl in The Shopkeeper until chapter 25. That's my best guess; the story has not yet been broken up into chapters. It would probably help if I proofread my postings. I used "cite" instead of "site" and I can't edit it afterward. That's just one example.

And Auntie is not "a clueless young woman". I've reread it. Nowhere does chapter 1 say she's young. There are clues that she's been married for a while in this chapter. Her husband has a grown nephew. His wife enters the story in chapter 4. She's never committed a crime before and she's scared. That's not clueless!

I'm trying. These stories were originally written for my consumption alone. I read what I wrote years ago and I get the same story in my head. I think that it means other readers will get the same story in their heads. But that doesn't make it true.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Technical help:

Forget the paragraph rules you learned at school. Literotica readers use all sorts of devices, mostly portable - phones, iPods, tablets. You need to make your text visually friendly, which means lots of white space, shorter paras, avoid 'walls of text'. This is definitely one area where paper print rules no longer apply. Think device screens, not print on paper.

Break up your paragraphs. A good start - every time there's a new slice of dialog, put in a para break. What your characters say is fine, it's the layout issues that are getting in the way. After a while, you'll get the idea - look at some of mine, you don't have to read anything - you'll see that my paras are roughly the same length, with several on a single screen. It's a visual thing, give readers white space - like in this post.

Don't shift from first person to third repeatedly. When you do, make it very clear, and it's best to give each pov a good time in the sun, so readers can keep up.

I suggest you take more time to proof read and edit, find an editor if you can. A few silly mistakes will forgiven, lots will lose you readers, fast.

Thematic comment - You know all these things about your characters because you're carrying character and plot sheets in your head. But they're not coming across in the writing, there's not much being revealed in the text. She's shop lifting for the first time - okay, why, what's driven her to it? It's not convincing.

Site compliance advice - stop talking about characters doing anything under the age eighteen. That's a hard site policy, and will get stories bounced, if not by Laurel first off, by stories being reported. You need to write about adults being adults on Lit, it's just part of the territory.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Thank you. I did use the volunteer editors link. Tried two of them; no response from either.

The information on new paragraph rules is a huge help.

I was careful with the proofreading. I didn't know about the bug in my editor. That was chapter 1 and 2. I think I have a handle on it.

My character development is slow but steady. Chapter 1 planted hints. I think these things become clearer in the next few chapters. I think I make it very clear in the very first paragraph that she doesn't know why she was shoplifting. But doesn't the fact that she returned for more suggest an answer. I thought it was subtle the first time I read it. I could lose readers if my development is too slow. But it was slow for me too. I got hooked. Things showed up in the story that didn't seem to make sense but then fit in perfectly later. I am worried about a character introduced in chapter 2; her motive for shoplifting is never clear to me. I am clear with all the other characters that will be introduced.

My stories span decades. None of the characters I'm introducing now have children at this point. But some of them will. And those children will grow up. And my adults being adults will have to deal with their children's emerging sexuality. But if the chapters have to end at chapter 24 then so be it. My question is answered before chapter 10.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Possibly a better way to learn your writing skills is to write short, stand-alone pieces first, to get your technical house in order, before embarking on the next greatest novel.

I see this a lot, folk wrestling with something which is far too ambitious and beyond their current skill set, wondering why they can't do it. Try something smaller, simpler, maybe?

 

[embarrassedBut]

I actually don't have control over the stories. There is a voice in my head that starts telling the story. I looked over the first story on your submissions list; I don't see much difference in paragraph length from mine. The problem with chapter 1 of my story is that it is light on dialog which helps break up the paragraphs into the shorter sizes you advocate. I'm wonder if Chapter 2 will be better. Unfortunately, things stay fairly superficial until chapter 4. The niece asks questions and gets answers. We learn a lot more about the shopkeeper.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I looked over the first story on your submissions list; I don't see much difference in paragraph length from mine.

That's actually my very first story, so not the best example.

I still reckon something shorter to start with, will make your life easier.

 

[DaddysLilLolly]

I don't think you're allowed to tell us, here, that your characters "are really 14 and 16" or whatever. You don't "get around the rules" by posting a story and later telling people your characters are under age.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I actually don't have control over the stories. There is a voice in my head that starts telling the story. I looked over the first story on your submissions list; I don't see much difference in paragraph length from mine. The problem with chapter 1 of my story is that it is light on dialog which helps break up the paragraphs into the shorter sizes you advocate. I'm wonder if Chapter 2 will be better. Unfortunately, things stay fairly superficial until chapter 4. The niece asks questions and gets answers. We learn a lot more about the shopkeeper.

I'm having some trouble buying the "I don't have control over the stories" thing. The voice in your head is your own voice, it doesn't come from out of the blue. It is your choice to try to bend the site's rules on the ages of your characters. There are ways to legitimately get around the problem their ages cause for your narrative. I demonstrated to you how I dealt with a similar situation.


There is a voice in my head that tells me stories, too.

There is also one that tells me I ought to chuck four years of sobriety and go on a cocaine binge.

There's another one that tells me that I ought to smack this bitch in front of me in the line at Dunkin Donuts for taking too long.

I get to decide if I listen to them or not.

 

[embarrassedBut]

That's actually my very first story, so not the best example.

I still reckon something shorter to start with, will make your life easier.

Actually, comparing my first story with yours was perfect. What was your second and third story. I would be interested in the evolution.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I don't think you're allowed to tell us, here, that your characters "are really 14 and 16" or whatever. You don't "get around the rules" by posting a story and later telling people your characters are under age.

NO! You got it wrong. Those are things I might possibly do but will not do! At least, not it intentionally. By unintentionally, I am referring to the first chapter of another story. When I wrote that chapter years ago, I did not know the age of the couple having sex. I only knew they were seniors in high school. I did not even know it was the fall. It is revealed when she is a freshman in college that her mother got pregnant with her in the summer. That means she has to have been born in the spring and therefor was 17 in the fall. Oops! If I had written chapter 1 back then and posted it then I would have had a problem when the later chapter was written.

 

[Lindsay_O]

I'm curious now. If she got it wrong, why did you mention those ages in the BB?

 

[embarrassedBut]

I'm curious now. If she got it wrong, why did you mention those ages in the BB?

I don't see where I ever mentioned 14. I did have a 14 year old character that I aged up to 16. But I just looked back over my comments and don't see where I mentioned that. But 16 was my own minimum age and chosen long before I visited Literotica.

 

[Lindsay_O]

Originally, the youngest girl was 14. I was uncomfortable with that. So I aged her up to 16.

Okay, I see where you decided to bump her (still under-aged age) to 16 instead of the 14...

 

[embarrassedBut]

One negative comment and I want to throw in the towel.

 

[MelissaBaby]

One negative comment and I want to throw in the towel.

I posted my life story and a commenter said it was "derivative". You rub the sore spot and keep going.

 

[embarrassedBut]

It wasn't you MelissaBaby; someone sent a criticism that hit too close to home. In my every day life, I do not use the explicit language that appears in my stories. The person said I used the P word and C word too much. I read other stories where they use synonyms but I'm not sure it makes it better. Is it erotica or is it smut? He said definitely smut.

I don't think the story actually starts to come together until chapter 4. I guess I will see how it goes now that chapter 2 is up. ElectricBlue66 said my paragraphs were too long. Chapter 1 had too little dialog. Chapter 2 has a lot fewer long paragraphs.