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Help with NonConsent Stories

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secondsamuel

Bad Motherfucker
Joined
May 23, 2016
Posts
17
Admittedly I'm a little aggravated, physically writing is challenging for me due to a disability. I tried twice to submit a nonconsent story, the first time I was rejected for punctuations, then today I receive this message.

Brutal and violent sex. While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.

I should say, I didn't write snuff. Admittedly my story is aggressive, and I took out a few sentences where the main character mentions that he wrote a story about having sex with his future victim on a guillotine during the French Revolution and resubmitted it, hoping this was the objection

I guess my question is on the we don't accept stories where the victim doesn't enjoy the act. I can point to a dozen stories where this simply isn't true. I don't mind that literotica has policies, but where are they located (this comment didn't seem to be on the submission guidelines). And they don't seem to be consistently enforced.

I'm working on another nonconsent story where sons turn their mother into their sexual pet. It gets very brutal at parts, she does cum, but takes the first opportunty to escape when given the chance. I guess I'm wondering where the line is, it seems very unclear.

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated,

Thanks,

Sam
 
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You can always appeal the verdict. Laurel seems to go through submissions at a rapid rate and can be convinced to go back for a re-read and reconsideration.
 
My only thought was to reach out to a volunteer editor who reads that category of story. They might be able to help both with the technical (grammar, spelling etc) editing, and warn you if anything's coming across more snuff-like than intended.
 
secondsamuel said:
Admittedly I'm a little aggravated, physically writing is challenging for me due to a disability. I tried twice to submit a nonconsent story, the first time I was rejected for punctuations, then today I receive this message.

Brutal and violent sex. While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.

I should say, I didn't write snuff. Admittedly my story is aggressive, and I took out a few sentences where the main character mentions that he wrote a story about having sex with his future victim on a guillotine during the French Revolution and resubmitted it, hoping this was the objection

I guess my question is on the we don't accept stories where the victim doesn't enjoy the act. I can point to a dozen stories where this simply isn't true. I don't mind that literotica has policies, but where are they located (this comment didn't seem to be on the submission guidelines). And they don't seem to be consistently enforced.

I'm working on another nonconsent story where sons turn their mother into their sexual pet. It gets very brutal at parts, she does cum, but takes the first opportunty to escape when given the chance. I guess I'm wondering where the line is, it seems very unclear.

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated,

Thanks,

Sam
Click to expand...

Actually, it is clear. -> While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.

The idea is too ban non-consent stories that stand solely on the violence. Without the "victim" deriving some pleasure from the encounter, it is pure violence for the sake of violence. From what you've described on your next story, it will be rejected for the same reason. In short, you need to soften it up so the "victim" ultimately "sees the light" and enjoys that someone pushed her/him to discover this new kink/pleasure.
 
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Seems like BelleCanzuto's advice is good. You need to have someone who's been around for a while read your story and give you input. I think it can be hard to evaluate one's own story, and whether it abides by Laurel's (somewhat idiosyncratic) rules, objectively.
 
This comes up frequently here. The characters really do need to enjoy it. Are there stories where this doesn't happen? Sure, and they do slip through Laurel's understandable cracks; in theory, you should report those stories when you come across them.

In reality? I doubt too many people report stories, other than out of spite.
 
I guess then it is not clear in that it is not consistently enforced. Again, I can point to examples of nonconsent scenes published on the site where the victim does not enjoy it, if you want examples.

Also, where are these rules published? It seems there are more of these than are posted on the link below.

https://www.literotica.com/subguide.shtml

Also not to quibble, but if you write "generally we don't accept this..." it begs the question, what is the exception, especially when exceptions seem to be made. I just pulled up a story where a woman was caught with drugs, forced to have sex with every disgusting man in the bar, and left in the gutter for the hobos. I think it's fair to ask where the line is.
 
There is one submissions editor and gate keeper here. Laurel. It's Laurel you have to connect with--no one on the discussion board. You can contact her via the Private Message system (account: Laurel) upper right of this page. No one else here can give you satisfaction or clearance.
 
It shouldn't be this hard, but sometimes you have to dig through the Stickies and follow a link. Here's some more clarity—> https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175666

As has been said before; Each story is quickly read prior to publication. It's not a perfect system and relies on both authors and readers to do their part. This content and underage content are the things we should all be mindful of...because I for one would really hate to see this platform get embroiled in a big blowup over a few bad actors and their perceived right to publish whatever they want.

Edit to add pertinent part: Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?

Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

Added by Laurel for clarification: While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.
 
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yukonnights said:
It shouldn't be this hard, but sometimes you have to dig through the Stickies and follow a link. Here's some more clarity—> https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175666

As has been said before; Each story is quickly read prior to publication. It's not a perfect system and relies on both authors and readers to do their part. This content and underage content are the things we should all be mindful of...because I for one would really hate to see this platform get embroiled in a big blowup over a few bad actors and their perceived right to publish whatever they want.

Edit to add pertinent part: Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?

Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

Added by Laurel for clarification: While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.
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I appreciate your reply and the link, as well the position of literotica. I've just gotten to the point post-surgery that I can participate in the forums at all (and it is a struggle at points) so I really do appreciate the guidance.

And of course, I have to remember that while it's my job as a writer to push the boundaries, it's the editor who has the thankless task of making me toe the line.
 
Try changing categories. I’ve seen some crazy shit get posted in the Non Human category that contains non consent sex. Just watch those tags.
 
secondsamuel said:
I appreciate your reply and the link, as well the position of literotica. I've just gotten to the point post-surgery that I can participate in the forums at all (and it is a struggle at points) so I really do appreciate the guidance.

And of course, I have to remember that while it's my job as a writer to push the boundaries, it's the editor who has the thankless task of making me toe the line.
Click to expand...

This may be the problem. In addition to the higher risk of story rejection by Laurel, there is the subsequent risk that some reader may find your story offensive. They can flag your story, and it will likely be pulled from the site if that happens.

Not everyone who reads Non-consent/Reluctance stories is looking for the same thing. Many readers may take issue with a story that "pushes the boundaries," and that in turn probably affects how Laurel determines her criteria. If she has had dozens of stories with elements like your story contains flagged by readers in the past, she may reject the story so she doesn't have to deal with that sort of thing again.

It is just unfortunate that you have no way of knowing ahead of time.
 
You have to remember that *any* non-consensual sex is already pushing people's boundaries. As a reader, I approach with extreme wariness; as a writer I do so rather guiltily. Any rape is traumatic, even if enjoyed in the moment.
 
AlinaX said:
You have to remember that *any* non-consensual sex is already pushing people's boundaries. As a reader, I approach with extreme wariness; as a writer I do so rather guiltily. Any rape is traumatic, even if enjoyed in the moment.
Click to expand...

Good point. And one would hope people frequenting that category would keep it in mind.

As to pushing boundaries? It's not "an editor's job" to rein you in. It's your work. If your work is too gonzo, that's on you.
 
secondsamuel said:
I'm working on another nonconsent story where sons turn their mother into their sexual pet. It gets very brutal at parts, she does cum, but takes the first opportunty to escape when given the chance. I guess I'm wondering where the line is, it seems very unclear.
Click to expand...

I'd say the fact that she wants to run away in the end should be a clear indication it wouldn't follow the guidelines. Sure, NonCon/Reluctance stories might force a characters in a sexual situation they might not fully agree with at first, but they should always change their mind over time. Now, if for example the mother would run away, think about what happend for a bit and then return willingly, I think you have a much better chance of getting accepted. (of course, this shouldn't just be included to get published. It needs to be the believable conclusion she comes to that she actually would like to continue these relationships or sexual acts of her own choice, and needs to show character growth and acceptance).
 
Of course, it's a little more complicated. It's a blackmail situation, in which the blackmailer gets what's coming to him and she leaves the situation with the threat removed, only to involve herself in the same sort of activity consensually.

Again, the blackmailer getting what's coming to him/her is something I've seen before. I must confess, I'm often inspired by the great work I read on here. I'm not entirely sure how to write a story where she gets revenge (a common plot) and continues the relationship. I wrote it so that she doesn't enjoy it with sons (they are brutes) but finds the tasks exciting and climaxes. Then when her lover "rescues" her, she adds these tramuatic events into her sexuality.

I guess is continuing the acts enough?
 
Voboy said:
Good point. And one would hope people frequenting that category would keep it in mind.

As to pushing boundaries? It's not "an editor's job" to rein you in. It's your work. If your work is too gonzo, that's on you.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Respectfully, the editor is a gatekeeper. That's fine, it's their platform. I can write whatever I want, they can publish whatever they want. But the burden of making rules is that you have to enforce them.

As for pushing boundaries, that's what writing is supposed to do. I know it's just erotica, and I know nonconsent can be offensive to people, but so can incest, or even gay/lesbian. Personally, the first time I ever read a taboo story I felt so ashamed... because I kept reading. Writing is my passion, of course art is better shared, but I'm writing to please myself. There are times when something I write or think bothers me, but then I remind myself ideas never hurt anyone, only there implementation.

I do get the need to make money, to keep readers, and to avoid lawsuits. But these aren't really things I can worry about while writing. It's just like, my opinion man
 
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secondsamuel said:
Writing is my passion, of course art is better shared, but I'm writing to please myself.
Click to expand...

If that were true, you wouldn’t be publishing them.

Since you are, it’s your responsibility to keep your audience in mind. If you can’t do that, it’s your fault. You’re the creator of your material. Your name goes on it. Relying on someone else to make your work acceptable seems to me to be the opposite of caring about, or having any respect for, your own skills as a writer.

You write something edgy. You’re happy with it. Your editor gets through with it and it’s no longer edgy. How, exactly, is it your work anymore? How can you take pride in it?
 
Voboy said:
If that were true, you wouldn’t be publishing them.

Since you are, it’s your responsibility to keep your audience in mind. If you can’t do that, it’s your fault. You’re the creator of your material. Your name goes on it. Relying on someone else to make your work acceptable seems to me to be the opposite of caring about, or having any respect for, your own skills as a writer.

You write something edgy. You’re happy with it. Your editor gets through with it and it’s no longer edgy. How, exactly, is it your work anymore? How can you take pride in it?
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"Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia." - Kurt Vonnegut.

I think you can write a story to please yourself or a particular person and hope other people like it to. Of course, I care if other people like it. Art is an exhibitionist expression. It's meant to be shared. I think any reasonable person can make changes without wailing that it compromises their artist intent.

As to your last point, all writers have editors. It's important as writers can be too close to their work to see potential issues. And if the rules for publication are subjective, how else am I supposed to know what is okay except by trial and error? Which was the point of my post as I'm trying to branch out and make myself a better writer.

Last thing, you don't have to be mean. I get it, you're a good writer, I've liked a few of your stories and it's a forum so off come the gloves, but we are anonymous volunteers. If any of us were great, we'd be writing elsewhere and getting paid for it.

How can I be proud of my work? Sometimes I'm not. Sometimes it's a learning experience. But I think Kurt had a point, but there is more than one way to make a hot dog.
 
Thanks everyone for the help

I suppose I'll just do my best and appeal when I can. I appreciate you all who gave me advice. Fun as it's been to talk shop, I'm going to get to the grindstone.
 
secondsamuel said:
I disagree. Respectfully, the editor is a gatekeeper. That's fine, it's their platform. I can write whatever I want, they can publish whatever they want. But the burden of making rules is that you have to enforce them.

As for pushing boundaries, that's what writing is supposed to do. I know it's just erotica, and I know nonconsent can be offensive to people, but so can incest, or even gay/lesbian. Personally, the first time I ever read a taboo story I felt so ashamed... because I kept reading. Writing is my passion, of course art is better shared, but I'm writing to please myself. There are times when something I write or think bothers me, but then I remind myself ideas never hurt anyone, only there implementation.

I do get the need to make money, to keep readers, and to avoid lawsuits. But these aren't really things I can worry about while writing. It's just like, my opinion man
Click to expand...

And that enforcement of the rules is precisely where this discussion began :confused: Your story was rejected...you asked why...I and several other spent time explaining why...and yet you are still stuck in the mindset that you must be allowed to create whatever you want. My advice to that is; I'm sure you can find a web site that will allow you to publish the kind of stories you want to write. Maybe Literotica just isn't for you?
 
Or, as others have mentioned before, PM Laurel or respond to the rejected story as outlined in the guidelines if you want an explanation that's more useful than just her citing the guidelines. We can talk about it all we want, Laurel is the only person that you need to convince. If you think it's unjustified, she should give you story a closer look. If it is, she will give you some better answer that helps you adjust your story so it will be accepted.
 
secondsamuel said:
Last thing, you don't have to be mean. I get it, you're a good writer, I've liked a few of your stories and it's a forum so off come the gloves, but we are anonymous volunteers. If any of us were great, we'd be writing elsewhere and getting paid for it.
Click to expand...

A lot of us DO get paid for it. But that's not the point. I appreciate your compliments, but I truly have no idea where "meanness" comes into this. I'm blunt, but that's only because I feel it's important to be clear.

You think your work exists to push boundaries. That's an admirable point of view, I think, and it's a useful way to advance the state of the art. So far so good.

But then you're allowing someone (an editor, which no, not all of us bother with) to prevent you from pushing boundaries, and you seem to think that's a good thing.

I don't see how those two things are consistent. The result it that the work under your name is not pushing the boundaries you want it to. As a writer, I'd be TREMENDOUSLY troubled if an editor were doing that to my work. I'd mostly be pissed at myself, for allowing it.

It's your work. Know what your audience will support, then do your best to provide it.
 
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secondsamuel said:
"Wr
As to your last point, all writers have editors. It's important as writers can be too close to their work to see potential issues. And if the rules for publication are subjective, how else am I supposed to know what is okay except by trial and error? Which was the point of my post as I'm trying to branch out and make myself a better writer.
Click to expand...
No, they don't.

I self-edit, and will send a story off to a beta reader or two, but I don't have a separate editor in the true publication sense of the role.
 
Why not just tone down the violent content or be a little more vague about it?
 
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