NFL Players kneeling for the anthem

[IG_88]

Can you go to work and engage in behavior that openly insults your company's customers, or damages the company brand?

Every company has rules of behavior which amount to "conditions of employment" for its employees, rules against sabotage or disruptive behavior, for instance. You don't have a First Amendment right in the private workplace.

If part of the pregame ceremony is for both teams to stand on the sidelines while the Anthem is played the NFL could make these players do so or get fired for cause.

Why do the owners have to put that policy in place if they don't want to? This is America where a person can't be forced to do those things. It's one of our reasons for existing.

 

[coati]

It's not a strawman nor hyperbole.

Watch the news sometime or just read what's being posted here by team "progress".

They have no bigger enemy than the socioeconomically successful white (or white enough) male. If he's Christian he's the ultimate boogieman.

You are one simple-minded mofo.

Fortunately, not everyone thinks according to your simple-minded "team" model. Us-and-them may be the ideal battlefield for your arrested development, but the real world is more nuanced than that.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Elle, Oh Elle.

Flag worship is a religion.

Elle, Oh Elle.

No it's not, you need a dictionary as bad as the rest of team "progress".

"Conditions of employment" is an incomplete sentence so I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.

Someone's never made it to management, much less run their own bidniz.

That does not come close to addressing the issue I am raising, that forcing someone in the free United States of America, to participate in a ceremony is nothing more than a whipping at the whipping post. You can force people to stand or kneel but you can't force them to respect you.

Nobody is forcing anyone to participate in a ceremony that is nothing more than a whipping at the whipping post.

They can fuck off at any time.

Why?

...so they are standing on "principle" for expressing their opinion, but I'm being petty. Got it.

It's only bad when it's people who aren't anti-USA do it.

Patriotism is nationalism and thus racist evil!!

 

[nowisthetime]

The point IS the protest, and the national anthem is most entirely appropriate place to take a stand against perceived government abuse.

They are taking a knee for what they believe in. It's called "principle".

Whining that they are "spoiled entitled little bitches" and railing about "If *I* owned a team" is simply pettiness on your part.

One can smell the arrogant privilege of many of these whiny and entitled rightist males on here. Phew, it stinks!

"If I had my team."

Like a damn overseer, he must forget what country we live in.

I mean how dare these highly paid black men have the nerve to express their 1st amendment rights? Even though they are rich, they still have a higher possibility of being harassed or murdered by cops, various stats show this truth.

The arrogance of some males in here, can't see beyond their noses. I think that is one of the problems that many have with right-wingers, and why they get trolled on here so badly--they just do not have capacity to see beyond themselves. It's all about THEM.

ME ME ME! Perhaps a terrible symptom of the Baby Boomer Generation.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You are one simple-minded mofo.

Fortunately, not everyone thinks according to your simple-minded "team" model. Us-and-them may be the ideal battlefield for your arrested development, but the real world is more nuanced than that.

Not really, we are still tribalistic and it very much shows in our politics.

We still group up along ideological lines.

"progressives" are one of those groups.

Problem with the USA is we're all trying to live more and more under 1 roof instead of having 50 flavors to choose from. To the extent even groups with shared core ideologies are fracturing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I mean how dare these highly paid black men have the nerve to express their 1st amendment rights?

Oh look....Nowisthetime doesn't understand how the 1st Amendment works either.

Shocking.

 

[IG_88]

Oh look....Nowisthetime doesn't understand how the 1st Amendment works either.

Shocking.

It is a 1st issue in regards to setting down rules. The owners and NFL are not required to because of 1A. The players have to follow their rules and as it stands they don't have any nor do they need to if they don't want to.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It is a 1st issue in regards to setting down rules.

What rules?

The owners and NFL are not required to because of 1A. The players have to follow their rules and as it stands they don't have any nor do they need to if they don't want to.

So?

 

[IG_88]

What rules?



So?

So there is no requirement due to 1A. That's what it ultimately comes down to. If owners decide to implement a rule then the players will have to follow but since the owners seem just fine with things then 1A says they don't have to do shit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So there is no requirement due to 1A. That's what it ultimately comes down to. If owners decide to implement a rule then the players will have to follow but since the owners seem just fine with things then 1A says they don't have to do shit.

So then we agree, this isn't a 1A issue right?

Meaning Nowisthetime demonstrated she very clearly has no fucking clue how 1A rights work by claiming that it is.

 

[IG_88]

So then we agree, this isn't a 1A issue right?

Meaning Nowisthetime demonstrated she very clearly has no fucking clue how 1A rights work by claiming that it is.

It is not for the players but it most certainly is for the owners.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It is not for the players

OK...cool.

but it most certainly is for the owners.

It certainly could be if the government gets involved and starts trying to force something.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Can you go to work and engage in behavior that openly insults your company's customers, or damages the company brand?

Every company has rules of behavior which amount to "conditions of employment" for its employees, rules against sabotage or disruptive behavior, for instance. You don't have a First Amendment right in the private workplace.

If part of the pregame ceremony is for both teams to stand on the sidelines while the Anthem is played the NFL could make these players do so or get fired for cause.

I am unaware of specifics of the contract but I suspect that you are correct that under the present contract players do have a contractual obligation to comply but that ignores the larger issue of this being an unfair labor practice.

My posts, to which you responded concern the true motivation that you, Trump and others have for insisting that players stand. You responded to my post but failed to address my point that the underlying motivation is racism.

What would be accomplished by forcing someone to appear to show allegiance?

 

[runsilent]

These assholes are not on the job and not representing their employers. Doing that obnoxious behavior while standing behind the counter at McDonalds would get you fired in an instant. As courts have upheld over and over again the right to free speech does not apply to the workplace. So sad to break this news to you.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

These assholes are not on the job and not representing their employers. Doing that obnoxious behavior while standing behind the counter at McDonalds would get you fired in an instant. As courts have upheld over and over again the right to free speech does not apply to the workplace. So sad to break this news to you.

That is a bit of a narrow view. Making them stand and recite is compelled speech, Is that OK?

 

[runsilent]

That is a bit of a narrow view. Making them stand and recite is compelled speech, Is that OK?

I'm not sure how this is connected to taking a knee. The players are not compelled to say anything. Standing does compel something and it is part of the job and they are paid to be there. I ask again that if you went to McDonalds and the employee that took your order said "heil Hitler" gave you the Nazi salute would you not complain? Would you not expect them to be fired? Or is that a freedom of speech issue?

 

[BotanyBoy]

That is a bit of a narrow view.

But an accurate one.

Making them stand and recite is compelled speech, Is that OK?

If they are being paid to represent the team and thus the team owners values....yes.

That's what employment is.

Exchanging your time/skills/image/name doing what the company needs you to do instead of what you want to do, for money.


If part of that employment is that you not use your place of work as a soap box to push your political agenda then in order to collect that check you need to STFU and do your job.

That's called professionalism.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Stain_mAnn]

That is a bit of a narrow view. Making them stand and recite is compelled speech, Is that OK?

Exactly. They are there to play ball, not to listen to a fucking song about some shit rag. I'm sure it's nowhere in their contracts.

 

[Luk]

Reading this thread tells you who are the leaders and who are the followers.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Reading this thread tells you who are the leaders and who are the followers.

How so?

 

[runsilent]

I'm not sure how this is connected to taking a knee. The players are not compelled to say anything. Standing does compel something and it is part of the job and they are paid to be there. I ask again that if you went to McDonalds and the employee that took your order said "heil Hitler" gave you the Nazi salute would you not complain? Would you not expect them to be fired? Or is that a freedom of speech issue?

I did not expect this post to be answered. How could anyone justify the case? Pathetic.

 

[Luk]

I did not expect this post to be answered. How could anyone justify the case? Pathetic.

It was a really dumb false equivalency.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I'm not sure how this is connected to taking a knee. The players are not compelled to say anything. Standing does compel something and it is part of the job and they are paid to be there. I ask again that if you went to McDonalds and the employee that took your order said "heil Hitler" gave you the Nazi salute would you not complain? Would you not expect them to be fired? Or is that a freedom of speech issue?

Standing for the anthem is not part of an NFL player's job.

 

[runsilent]

Standing for the anthem is not part of an NFL player's job.

Actually it is. They are paid to be there. Management expects them to stand up. If you want to protest do it on your own time. As Colin has learned that you cannot defy your employer and then no one else wants to deal with you.

In actuality I agree with him but you don't spit in the boss's face and expect no reaction.

 

[KeithD]

Actually it is. They are paid to be there. Management expects them to stand up.

Actually, no. There's nothing about this in the NFL rule book or operations manual. That there is is just a rumor going around social media. If the NFL wants there to be such a rule that players on contractually required to follow, they need to establish one.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/must-nfl-players-stand/

If you don't like Snopes as a source on this, you can find Fox News reports saying the same thing.