A rotund marital decision

[sr71plt]

They walked down the isle three years ago.

If it was a long isle, maybe that's why they were fit then. Maybe they need to go to the islands again. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

[Gunnlaug]

I know her loosely and as far as I can tell she has no major issues. I suspect she is simply bored. From being a free spirited college student, she is now suddenly busy building a family... stuck with a mortgage... always short of money... hubby working long hours and maybe being too tired to remember to compliment her once in a while...

You say you know her loosely but what I would say to that is that it's amazing the kind of deep-seated problems that people can hide, even from those who are close to them (even from themselves). And sometimes these problems can manifest themselves in 'strange' behaviour that is seemingly unrelated to the actual problem.

This issue sounds to me like one for a counsellor. Of course, if she refuses to see a counsellor, talk about the issue, face up to a possible problem, etc. it may be that the husband has reached a point at which he feels he can't continue. I'd like to think that he has been trying to talk this through with his wife, but of course we have no guarantee that he has.

 

[loquere]

Bush-league childish Poll. Find Jesus!

 

[PennLady]

I know her loosely and as far as I can tell she has no major issues. I suspect she is simply bored. From being a free spirited college student, she is now suddenly busy building a family... stuck with a mortgage... always short of money... hubby working long hours and maybe being too tired to remember to compliment her once in a while...

All of which could be making her depressed which could be leading to low self-esteem and stress/comfort eating. I'm not saying it's the husband's fault, just saying that there are lots of factors here. That kind of change of life circumstances can be a huge shock, and not everyone is just going to take a deep breath and get down to it.

And I can see where these circumstances would affect the husband as well. He may be stressed, depressed, frustrated, etc. But it's on both of them, not just her and not just him.

Also "bored" is tough. Maybe she is bored, but boredom can lead to depression, I think. Is she isolated? Does she have her own car to get around? Do they have kids? These are all big issues.

I remember after I had my son, it was a major disruption in so many ways that you're not thinking about beforehand. For one thing, I spent a month in the hospital before he was born on bedrest because my fluid was leaking. After that, I was alone with an infant 24/7 (hubby did help, though), mostly stuck in my house, in the winter -- that was a major adjustment after being someone who is pretty social and had worked in an office for ten years, and before that was either working or going to school or both.

There were no other moms in my neighborhood, or at least none that I knew. My parents were four hours away. My friends worked. I was relieved to go back to work when he was about four months old, to be honest.

Again, I'm not trying to say that the husband doesn't have grounds for concerns. However, I think he needs to dig a little here and not just brush this off as boredom or irresponsibility. Seems to me if he loves her, he would attempt to figure out what is wrong and what can be done to address it. Generally speaking, people don't just gain 80lbs in three years for no reason.

What is particular about this case is the duration of the marriage. They walked down the isle three years ago! If she was a car she would still be under warranty. This is not a girl who has matured naturally and bears the scars of life. She bears "the scars of Ben & Jerry". Most people I know didn't change much from 22 to 25.

And seriously - at 25 they should able to go trekking in the Rockies, paragliding, bungee jumping, dancing all night long, have wild sex in strange ways and weird places all the time... all that active stuff a young couple does. But they can't because she has unilaterally robbed them both of all that in return for the selfish pleasure of over-eating on chips and candy.

All of that stuff you mentioned takes time and money, and earlier you talked about them being "stuck with a mortgage." Maybe they can't afford it. I couldn't have done that stuff when I was 22-25. I didn't have the money, at the very least. Well, okay, I probably could have managed the dancing, but not the rest. I get what you're saying, that at that age they should be young and healthy enough to do things, but not everyone is. One thing I've come to appreciate as I get older, and many times specifically through Lit, is how varied people's experiences are.

I don't think she "unilaterally" robbed them of anything. Where is he in all of this? Is he helping? Hindering? Aware? Did people just expect her to go from being an "free-spirited college student" to sitting at home being a homemaker with no impact? (You haven't mentioned if she works?) Maybe her life scars just aren't visible to those who "know her loosely."

 

[LadyVer]

My ex was 6'4" and on the lean side. I never knew he had an issue with obesity until after we married, when every time he saw someone who was obese, he would say something insulting about them. I gained a lot of weight when pregnant but managed to knock the weight back off, but on this issue he was smart enough to know not to say anything. Unfortunately, he wasn't smart about other things, which is why we didn't last. I found it strange, though, when he remarried not too long after our divorce that his new wife was at least 50 pounds overweight.

 

[Swilly]

Actually, fruits and vegetables are engineered to be more durable for shipment and uniformly colored, with the result being a loss of flavor.

Some, but not all. Higher sugar content is real. And who knows how any of these modifications affect us?

 

[StrangeLife]

There's another old saying, told to me by a Hispanic, called the Ten Pound Rule. Upon marriage, Hispanic women gain ten pounds a year. If the guy had known this, he might have made a different choice. Obviously, he didn't.

The ten year rule.

I got me one of those as well and can testify to the fact that the rule isn't universal. And to be honest I wouldn't mind if she would end up looking like her mother.

The obesity crisis in America is not a made up thing designed to hassle overweight people, it's an inconvenient truth, just like climate change or any number of other inconvenient truths most of society chooses to ignore. The guy in this scenario is dealing with the issue the only way he knows how. I understand this and sympathize with him. I mean, seriously, are we supposed to ignore our biology and coax a hard-on for a woman who doesn't arouse us? Or ignore a hard-on for a woman who does arouse us? Mate selection is based, in part, on arousal. Granted, it's the part between the ears that's important, but if the arousal factor isn't there, the part between the ears is never going to be revealed. Some could say this woman pulled a bait and switch on the guy, which is dishonest, and not deserving of unending devotion.

This scenario is the perfect example of why kids under 30 should not get married. They're still kids, fer cryin out loud. They don't know what they want, other than a partner with a hot bod. My sympathies go out to both parties, and to anyone I offended with my crass attitude.

Exactly. I can see it from both sides as well. Of course he should love her unconditionally, but on the other hand he has a right to be happy in life too. And no matter how we twist the issue, her overweight is self afflicted. She did it all by herself, yet her husband suffers for it.

What can he do other than putting forth an ultimatum?

 

[Swilly]

Yes, many factors are involved. No, we don't have sufficient information about the OP case. Yes, weight control is both simple and complex, and is rarely easy. Yes, personal psychology and social pressures are involved.

BUT -- porking-out does not make one a victim. Others are to blame (responsible) for what they do to us. We are to blame (responsible) for what we do to ourselves. We may ignore what we do to ourselves for a long long time -- but we're still responsible. We need to learn self-control, yes? Live and learn; or don't learn, and die.

Nobody forced me to eat, drink, smoke, fuck unwisely, take stupid / crazy risks -- and I don't think I absorbed much media hype about such matters, having had some training in medicine and nutrition. (And not just Food Pyramid lessons, either.) I did what I did to myself knowing full well what was involved but not really caring. Attitude trumped information.

That's the heart of it -- caring. Real motivation. I'll repeat: Ya really gotta wanna, and if ya don't wanna, ya ain't gonna. For me, it was like a switch flipping in my head, from DOESN'T MATTER to DON'T DO THAT! Such switches have flipped for several self-destructive behaviors. I really hadda wanna. It wasn't easy, just simple.

You're missing my point. I never mentioned emotional issues. Our food, even when supposedly healthy, is killing us. And..we are misinformed by those we should be able to trust. It isn't all about bucking up and dealing with it for a lot of people.

 

[Gunnlaug]

What can he do other than putting forth an ultimatum?

It all depends on how far down the line they really are. Again, we don't know if this has been a long running situation that he has been frantically trying to solve/help with/support her through, or if he is just being a self-centered arse.

If he has been doing everything that he possibly can without result he may have reached a point where he sees no future, at which point it may make more sense to leave rather than prolong the agony. Although even then I'd suggest one last try.

However, what also interests me is that you now say that he is putting forth an ultimatum whereas I understood from the OP that he has moved beyond ultimatum to filing papers. Apologies if I misunderstood the OP but there is a big difference between saying "I will if you don't' and 'I'm doing it'.

One other issue that we haven't even considered, of course, is the possibility that there is already 'someone else'.

 

[lovecraft68]

My opinion is no, that is pretty low and a telling trait

But for the way society looks at it in general

Its okay for men because they are shallow moronic pigs and the fact they would should tell wifey what a poor choice they made in the first place.

What kills me is the average couple that is a little older, lets say later 30's to 40's the woman 9/10 keeps herself up better than the man does. But its never mentioned when lardo developes love handles and his gut is hanging over his waist no that is just fine, isn't it? BUt the wife put on an extra ten pounds

And those will be the guys to say a woman has let herself go.

for anyone-and this includes a woman if she thought like this-to divorce someone for letting themselves go is as low as cheating, I mean give me a fucking break. Talk about a two dimensional shallow idiot and a lousy human being.

I've always been in good shape, always mostly because I'm OCD over it and hyper active to start. When I met my wife she was struggling with a weight issue and I had some people make some remarks to me about it because I always took care of myself. A couple made some nasty remarks that led to them not being friends ay more and in one case learning just how well I take care of myself.

Now as time went on wifey began to lose weight, over come some issues etc... etc... now its
Oh, man you're wife's hot, what's she doing with a dog like you?"

Her answer is because I loved her before she reached what societies model of "hot" is. She will never doubt my love for her, my dedication to her or the fact that I' have character and am not a shallow prick.

Too bad I'm the exception for men and not the rule.

 

[PennLady]

Exactly. I can see it from both sides as well. Of course he should love her unconditionally, but on the other hand he has a right to be happy in life too. And no matter how we twist the issue, her overweight is self afflicted. She did it all by herself, yet her husband suffers for it.

What can he do other than putting forth an ultimatum?

I'm not saying he should love her unconditionally, although it's a nice thought. I'm saying that he's not the only person affected here.

Why do so many people seem to not consider that the wife is suffering as well? It is not fun to be overweight. She doesn't necessarily *want* to be overweight, she just is. She may feel horrible about it, and upset that she's disappointed herself and her husband, yet everyone seems to just be piling on her.

And if she is depressed (just saying the possibility is there), it might be deep enough that she can not just buck up and fix it. She might need counseling, or meds, or both, and he should help her find it if that's the case. This is part of the "in sickness and in health" vow, right? Don't they both owe each other the effort to find out what's gong on?

Yes, no one forced her to overeat, but what other factors combined to make her do this, which she didn't do before? She deserves some sympathy here, at least until it's proven that she doesn't.

 

[lovecraft68]

Quick answer to the OP is tell your wife's cousin he's a fucking dirt bag and I would love to see a pic of Mr stud just like I say that to all the "studs" who act like that on line, lets see your six pack and not the one you're chugging.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Quick answer to the OP is tell your wife's cousin he's a fucking dirt bag and I would love to see a pic of Mr stud just like I say that to all the "studs" who act like that on line, lets see your six pack and not the one you're chugging.

HATER

 

[DirtyAllie]

Too bad I'm the exception for men and not the rule.

It is too bad....that you're right. I work in the weight loss field and many heavier women suffer #1 from low self esteem that is most often given to them by their alleged "love"

There is a fundamental difference in how men and women see there spouse over time.

For a woman if her husband starts to "slip" for lack of a better term. It is still a case of "He's a good father, a good husband, provider, a good person, all the things I love he still is, so he's a little soft around the middle big deal."

Men see it as okay she is still a great mom and good wife and person and everything I love her for, but she put on 20 pounds! That's it, everything else is now out the window.

And you know why? In most cases its not even that the husband himself minds. Its what will their friends think? What will Jack from the office say at the next office party if he sees my wife gained weight(If you're a true man Jack will say nothing because you'll defend your wife and slap him, but let's face it men need the approval of their cronies)

The average guy does care what Jack thinks now just like he did when he wouldn't ask out the chubby girl in HS he really liked because his friends would say he is a chubby chaser.

Men are the definition of low self esteem everything with them is all about how they are perceived rather than how they perceive themselves. Except of course if they slip because no one is supposed to care.

Most men stop maturing at 14.

Also I treat almost as many men as women and in the time I have been doing it I have not had a man yet say the weight was causing stress with his wife in the way of his being attractive. There are health concerns on her end, but about him wanting to be around for the long haul not about him not looking "buff" anymore.

More than 60% of the women say their husband says they are no longer or not as attracted to them.

This disgusting thread topic proves that and I do have the experience in real life to back my claims. Men are more vain about their wives then themselves.

 

[lovecraft68]

HATER

I will tell you what I tell the slobs at the bar.

If you can do more push ups than me I will hand you fifty dollars.

 

[StrangeLife]

This issue sounds to me like one for a counsellor. Of course, if she refuses to see a counsellor, talk about the issue, face up to a possible problem, etc. it may be that the husband has reached a point at which he feels he can't continue. I'd like to think that he has been trying to talk this through with his wife, but of course we have no guarantee that he has.

Councillor? Try "priest".

Yep - it's that kind of family. And since we all know that the D-word was invented by Satan I can guarantee that they have been councilled to the point of exhaustion and beyond.

Again, I'm not trying to say that the husband doesn't have grounds for concerns. However, I think he needs to dig a little here and not just brush this off as boredom or irresponsibility. Seems to me if he loves her, he would attempt to figure out what is wrong and what can be done to address it. Generally speaking, people don't just gain 80lbs in three years for no reason.

I don't know them well enough to be sure, but he is a good guy and they seemed very much in love at the wedding. I don't know how Dr. Phil'ish he is of course, but he must have been aware of she shihtzu storm he would raise by not only separating from her, but doing so for a highly politically incorrect reason. He can't have made that decision lightly.

I suspect he might be trying to pressure her into losing weight by threatening her with divorce. I hope I'm wrong because if that's the case, he will fail. Pressure never works.

I don't think she "unilaterally" robbed them of anything. Where is he in all of this? Is he helping? Hindering? Aware? Did people just expect her to go from being an "free-spirited college student" to sitting at home being a homemaker with no impact? (You haven't mentioned if she works?) Maybe her life scars just aren't visible to those who "know her loosely.

She doesn't work and I don't know why, because she has a degree and everything. I bet they could use the extra money and that could alleviate the boredom, if that is the problem. But when it comes down to it, the prime responsibility for a persons diet still falls on the person in control of the jaw muscles. He might be as boring as a house plant, but he didn't force feed her.

 

[SikFuk]

...We eat a lot of processed foods. For all the articles I see about preparing your own food on a budget or schedule, they often gloss over the fact that it still takes time, and people don't always have that time. ...

So we make time. I used to live on microwaved meals because I didn't think I had time to cook. Then I learned about the correlation between a high sodium diet and high blood pressure. I had a choice, take blood pressure medicine that made me feel like crap, or change my diet. I chose the latter. Once a week, I make a 4.5 quart crock pot stew with veggies and chicken and NO SALT and freeze it in 7 Glad freezer containers. I also make brown rice and freeze it in bags. That's what I live on. 2 meals a day from the crock pot, avocados and fresh berries (which are in season year-round thanks to the global economy) with the middle meal a low sodium burrito or sandwich, or if I had a weight problem, would be a salad. None of this is time consuming. The only time difference is dealing with the crock pot once a week. Is good health worth a couple of hours a week? I guess that's an individual decision.

On the issue of exercise, they say a short high intensity workout is better than nothing. That could be as simple as sprinting up the stairs instead of taking the elevator, or parking in the far side of the lot and sprinting or walking really fast to the store. They (the health nazis) do recommend combating the sedentary lifestyle by getting up every half hour or so and moving around a bit. We're all capable of that. If the job doesn't allow it, we might have to consider federal legislation mandating the right of employees to prioritize their health over the profits of their corporate masters. That's the problem today. In the old days, survival required an active lifestyle, which kept us healthy. These days, survival for many requires a sedentary lifestyle, which is killing us. It doesn't have to be that way.

(And BTW, I'm even more disgusted by men with big flabby bellies than by women who've lost their shape due to kids and such. Dudes! Look in the fucking mirror. You're a pig. Oink oink.)

 

[Swilly]

Sik,

I'd bet that your health improvement had little to do with salt. You were eating healthier.

Although sodium is often still touted to be a killer, there is little evidence to support this.

Okay...I've made my points about food.

As for the question...

Many years ago, I worked with a woman that was fat. Not chubby. Fat. We became very good friends, and eventually lovers. I had never been involved with a woman that was fat before or since. Here was the thing, though. I loved that woman. God, did I love her. She was beautiful to me, and that was that. We fucked each other senseless, and loved every minute of it. Unfortunately, she had family issues that required her to leave the area, and over time, we went our separate ways.

So...no. I would not leave a woman I loved because she became fat. Or had a breast removed. Or chipped a tooth. Or any of the multitude of shit that can befall people in this world.

 

[PennLady]

I don't know them well enough to be sure, but he is a good guy and they seemed very much in love at the wedding. I don't know how Dr. Phil'ish he is of course, but he must have been aware of she shihtzu storm he would raise by not only separating from her, but doing so for a highly politically incorrect reason. He can't have made that decision lightly.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise, really. But this whole conversation has been about *him*. I think some consideration should be given to *her* that goes beyond "Well no one's force-feeding her." Weight gain and loss is complicated at the mental level for a lot of people, especially when depression enters the mix. For her, I'd ask what factors are at work that end up in her making these poor health decisions.

She doesn't work and I don't know why, because she has a degree and everything. I bet they could use the extra money and that could alleviate the boredom, if that is the problem. But when it comes down to it, the prime responsibility for a persons diet still falls on the person in control of the jaw muscles. He might be as boring as a house plant, but he didn't force feed her.

That's not the point, and like I said, this seems like it may go beyond your last sentence. Of course no one is force-feeding her, but WHY is she doing this?

Money might alleviate the boredom, but maybe boredom isn't the problem. I mean, maybe they have unfortunately discovered that they are simply incompatible. I hope not.

Or, maybe she doesn't work because she can't find a job, whether in her field or otherwise.

It's just disheartening that for the wife, everyone seems to stop at the idea of she could just fix it if she wants to, when maybe she needs help fixing it.

 

[StrangeLife]

My ex was 6'4" and on the lean side. I never knew he had an issue with obesity until after we married, when every time he saw someone who was obese, he would say something insulting about them. I gained a lot of weight when pregnant but managed to knock the weight back off, but on this issue he was smart enough to know not to say anything. Unfortunately, he wasn't smart about other things, which is why we didn't last. I found it strange, though, when he remarried not too long after our divorce that his new wife was at least 50 pounds overweight.

We often become less critical as we get older and realize that our ideal fantasy partner - the one we used to compare everybody to - doesn't exist. I would never even consider divorcing my wife for the reason that she got fat, but then again I know a lot more about life today than I did when I was 25.

I'm not saying he should love her unconditionally, although it's a nice thought. I'm saying that he's not the only person affected here.

Why do so many people seem to not consider that the wife is suffering as well? It is not fun to be overweight. She doesn't necessarily *want* to be overweight, she just is. She may feel horrible about it, and upset that she's disappointed herself and her husband, yet everyone seems to just be piling on her.

And if she is depressed (just saying the possibility is there), it might be deep enough that she can not just buck up and fix it. She might need counseling, or meds, or both, and he should help her find it if that's the case. This is part of the "in sickness and in health" vow, right? Don't they both owe each other the effort to find out what's gong on?

Yes, no one forced her to overeat, but what other factors combined to make her do this, which she didn't do before? She deserves some sympathy here, at least until it's proven that she doesn't.

The question is not whether or not she's "evil" for being fat. I dont think anybody is mad at her in any way. The question is more whether or not he is evil for divorcing her. Many people would say: "What a shallow asshat". And this is where I come in as the devils advocate and say that I can see his point too (and that position will cost me a few nights on the couch ). I know that there can be deep underlying issues, but it's still not the same as if she had been in an accident and lost a leg or something.

Maybe it's me that's too.... well... "man".

 

[Swilly]

Well put, PL. Not bad for a Flyers fan.

 

[SecondCircle]

Chances are that if this scenario was all it took for either of them to consider divorce, then it wasn't really gonna work out anyway.

That aside, I agree that I don't have enough info to really justify anything that THEY should do.

As for me, I don't consider divorce. Ever. (Insert all "oh yeah? But what if" 's here) Now I think divorce is fine for others, and there are many valid reasons why they should. But I don't believe in it for my marriage personally. I rarely make promises, but my vows were sort of an oath in my eyes. I didn't take the decision lightly. When I said till death, that's what I meant. When I vowed the sickness and health bit, I meant as bad as possible. I looked at the woman I married and swore that I would devote myself to her no matter what.

So I guess, no, I personally don't agree that divorcing his wife on those grounds is right. I mean I wouldn't, though it could be right for them if that's all it takes to consider divorce.

 

[StrangeLife]

I didn't mean to imply otherwise, really. But this whole conversation has been about *him*. I think some consideration should be given to *her* that goes beyond "Well no one's force-feeding her." Weight gain and loss is complicated at the mental level for a lot of people, especially when depression enters the mix. For her, I'd ask what factors are at work that end up in her making these poor health decisions.

I agree and like I said to Lady Ver, I would never divorce my wife for that type of reason. I don't trow out my car if it breaks - I fix it. Surely I could do no less for my wife. I would have her in olympic shape before she knew what happened

So yes - if he really cares for her he should explore every possible avenue before kicking her to the curb. She's a nice person, she looks good even with the extra pounds and she loves (or used to love) him a lot. That's not always a combination that's easy to find. But if he can't see the light at the end of the tunnel and is repulsed by her looks, is he a bad person for throwing in the towel? A stupid person maybe, but bad? I honestly don't think so...

 

[PennLady]

The question is not whether or not she's "evil" for being fat. I dont think anybody is mad at her in any way. The question is more whether or not he is evil for divorcing her. Many people would say: "What a shallow asshat". And this is where I come in as the devils advocate and say that I can see his point too (and that position will cost me a few nights on the couch ). I know that there can be deep underlying issues, but it's still not the same as if she had been in an accident and lost a leg or something.

Maybe it's me that's too.... well... "man".

ETA: Sorry some of this crossed with your previous post.

It's fine to play devil's advocate, and again -- I keep saying this -- I am not trying to ignore the husband's concerns. If this has been going on for months, and they have gone to a counselor or whatever and it's not working, then that is different from him just waking up and saying hey, she's too fat, I want out. I don't think he did that, based on what you've said, but those circumstances also make a difference in how one looks at the situation.

But I'm hoping he's concerned for her and their marriage, and not just annoyed that she's put on weight. Plus, I can't help emphasizing this and I'm not a medical professional, but the fact that she has put on EIGHTY POUNDS in something like three years seems like cause for CONCERN, not criticism. If she lost that kind of weight in a short time, everyone would be concerned, and no one would criticize her, I'd bet. Gaining weight can also be an issue beyond just eating too much.

Why can't mental depression be just as bad as losing a leg? It means she's not functioning properly, right? If your muscles aren't working, or a part of you hurts, you'd see a doctor (well, many of us would). If your *mind* is not functioning properly, why wouldn't you get that treated as well? Or perhaps hope someone else would encourage you too, because your mind may not allow you to see the problems. Why are those "deep underlying issues" not on the same level as a bad physical injury?

And I'll state this too: I'm not saying she *is* depressed, I'm not saying she must take meds to fix this. I'm just saying that it's a possibility and when stuff like that enters the picture, it complicates the question of "why doesn't he/she just eat less?"

In all of this, and I realize you're probably not getting the story first-hand (if I'm wrong, my apologies), everyone seems to be dismissing the weight gain as her fault for being lazy and not allowing for other factors. No one seems to be concerned about why she's gained the weight, and that's horrible.

These factors should be considered as well -- it is far easier to gain weight than lose it, for both sexes. Men generally lose weight more quickly, so a weight loss plan for women can be very frustrating because it takes longer. When you're in a bad mental place, things can gain momentum -- you're upset because you eat, which makes you gain weight, which upsets those around you, which makes you upset, so you eat, etc.

It's just not as easy as it looks. And it's not always that simple either, depending on person's mental state. It's funny how people will give some sympathy to things like depression if those suffering from it fit a certain image, but when they don't, the sympathy is gone. If you do have sympathy for the wife, I'm sorry to imply otherwise. But I haven't seen much evidence for it from most posters.

 

[PennLady]

Well put, PL. Not bad for a Flyers fan.

Thanks. I hope the Rangers win this round. Then I hope they lose. Seriously, I want P'burgh out the playoffs ASAP.