Your Views On Marriage?

[Patryn]

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about the topic of marriage. The reason I ask is the more I read and participate here, I become more and more discouraged. This is just some of the stuff I've seen here.

I've seen people who want their wife/husband to fuck someone else.

People who would give their w/h permission to fuck someone else.

People who are running off to visit or inviting online "lovers".

People who have cheated, suspect their w/h of cheating, want to cheat, on and on.

People who claim to love others, feel sexually attracted to others, or are questioning their sexuality.

Here's my opinion on it since I did bring it up. I know that no mater if you are married or not, there will always be someone you find sexually attractive. Fine. A little bit of flirting is fine. You are married, but you are still human.

As for allowing or asking permission for sex with someone else? Not for me. If you don't have that all "out of your system" by the time you are married, you should not be married I think.

If my husband cheated on me? Done. Over. No questions. Why? There is obviosly something SERIOUSLY wrong in our marriage that's probably been there for a long time, that we haven't talked about. If we can't talk why the hell are we together. I think I could also expect him to leave me if I cheated.

As for the online thing I have a lot of friends on the net, male and female. I have cybered with some of the males, and my husband does know. He's done the same with a female friend and I know. That to me comes under the heading of flirting. We both have made it very clear: NO meetings with anyone we've cybered with. We trust each other but don't want to cause an awkward situation with the other person who may expect more from a meeting. We are happily married and happy sexually with each other. Neither of us see any reason to seek sex elsewhere.

My point of this whole topic is doesn't marriage mean exclusive any more? It just seems so easy for some people to bring a 3rd person in, or at least consider it, or consider cheating or having extreme feelings for another yet they consider themselves married. That to me is not a marriage and it's not what a marriage is built on at least not to me.

Just for anyone who is wondering I am 28, married 4 years, no kids and my husband is 32. I don't think I'm being old fashioned but I think the meaning of marriage has been forgotten.

 

[Fubar]

For me marriage is a commitment of love to another person, maybe thats why I am not married. If I was in love with somebody there is no way i would share them with anybody else, be it man or woman.

 

[Guest]

Okay, here is Queen Tiggs' (as Rachel and Gil call me, lol) view on the subject. First of all, let me say that I am married and I love my husband very much. Let me also say SEX and LOVE are two completely different things. The problem that some people have is that they always try to combine the two. Sex is just sex. It is two (or more) people going at it with raw, animal passion. Sex is lust. Love is an expression between two people. (Making love with someone you love certianly can be nice, but it's not "sex".) Love is what keeps you and the person you are with together. It's a bond.
At any rate, there is nothing wrong with being sexually attracted to another (even when you're married/in love). My husband and i are swingers, and this is the happiest I've ever been in a relationship. When we are with another couple, the bond between Brad and I is so much stronger.

 

[Renee]

I guess you make a valid point. However, I never looked at it that way.

When I see ppl on here saying they want to see their h/w with another person, or someone who says they "Would" give permission for this to happen, yet they never really did. I take it all as fantasy. I tend to think when reality hits, you tend to back away from what you thought you wanted.

I know, I myself sometimes think of what it would be like to see my husband with someone else and at times it does turn me on. But when I am not fantasizing and I am being truthful with myself, I know, that I could never really see that. It would hurt me, and I would not be able to handle it. I have said it on here somewhere before, and I will say it again. Just because we fantasize about something, it doesn't mean we really want it to happen.

I truly think the majority of ppl on here who have made posts about that subject, are talking about their fantasies. I could be wrong. That's just the way I have always taken it. For those that confess to being in relationships like that, or confess to being Swingers as Tiggs just did, that is fine too.

Each couple has their own definition of what a relationship is. If you are swingers then that is a consensual thing between the two of you, and I don't see that as cheating. Therefore, I think in their own way they value their marriage just as we do in our own way.

With that in mind, I think that cheating is another whole level. If you are cheating then you are right, there is something missing and you need to find it or be fair to yourself and partner and move on, so that the two of you can find happiness elsewhere.

As far as cybering on here, or talking to someone about fantasies or turn ons... my husband and I talked about it and we don't feel that this is cheating either. Although some do and may say that we don't value our marriage because we have done this, or we are missing something and need to move on. Yet, you, your husband, my husband and myself see it differently. So see, it just depends on the person/couple and how they view the topic.

[This message has been edited by Renee (edited 04-04-2000).]

 

[Lasher]

It sounds like an interesting relationship you have there, Tiggs. And that is the word I would use for it. Though you may be married, what you have is not a marriage. Sounds more to me like a hot date where you both just happen to end up in the same house at the end of the night.

I am open minded about most things, but when it comes to marriage I am a traditionalist. Marriage is meant to be a commitment..a spirtual, mental, and physical commitment between 2 people. Hell, this is the..uhh..00's, there is no reason to get married in this day and age unless you really desire to make that type of commitment. In fact, given the way the IRS takes every opportunity to fuck those of us who have gotten married and not had children in the ass at every opportunity, it seems foolish to do it for any other reason. But that's just me, that's how I see things. If you're happy doing what you do, then you should probably just tell me to fuck off and go on being happy with your life.

But I do agree with what Patryn said in her original post, and I have felt the same way about things I have seen here. I would have said something sooner, but you know how sensitive some people are. The last thing I would want to do is to upset anyone.

 

[Whispersecret]

Originally posted by Patryn:

As for allowing or asking permission for sex with someone else? Not for me. If you don't have that all "out of your system" by the time you are married, you should not be married I think.

That would have been nice, but no one was really interested in a relationship with me before I got married. And I, sadly, wanted marriage and kids so badly that I said yes to the first man who said he loved me.

Originally posted by Patryn:

If my husband cheated on me? Done. Over. No questions. Why? There is obviosly something SERIOUSLY wrong in our marriage that's probably been there for a long time, that we haven't talked about. If we can't talk why the hell are we together. I think I could also expect him to leave me if I cheated.

I think that people who dump a marriage so quickly after finding out their spouse has cheated might be throwing the baby out with the bath water. I know a lot of you are probably shaking your heads at me, but bear with me. Are there no set of circumstances where you might forgive your spouse for cheating?

Marriages go through good times and bad. Finding out your spouse had an affair or having an affair yourself would definitely qualify as a bad time, probably the worst. Before you call up that lawyer, think beyond that painful knee-jerk reaction. Many a marriage has weathered an affair and some ended up stronger because of it. I'm not condoning cheating, but merely pointing out that divorce after an affair shouldn't necessarily be the default. Yes, there's something wrong, but it just might be worth the effort it takes to fix it.

[This message has been edited by whispersecret (edited 04-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by whispersecret (edited 04-05-2000).]

 

[Whispersecret]

Originally posted by Patryn:

As for the online thing I have a lot of friends on the net, male and female. I have cybered with some of the males, and my husband does know. He's done the same with a female friend and I know. That to me comes under the heading of flirting. We both have made it very clear: NO meetings with anyone we've cybered with.

Now this topic is of particular interest to me. It puzzles me how easily people dismiss cybering as falling into the category of flirting. I think it's because it's completely out of the realm of the physical. No one actually touches anyone. (Sort of like Clinton's insistence that they didn't have sex because his dick didn't go into her vagina. But that's another topic.)

In a way, I think that some cybering could loosely qualify as flirting. If you meet a stranger in a chatroom and cyber and then move on, that sort of qualifies, I guess.

But don't fool yourself. I think that if you have an ongoing cyber relationship with someone you care about that's starting to be a horse of a different color.

And if you actually fall in love with the person? Is cybering still flirting then? I don't think so. Cheating isn't only done with the body, in my opinion. In this day and age it is now possible to cheat with the mind as well. If you're cybering with a lover whom you care about and who cares about you, then you have emotional and sexual ties with someone other than your spouse. You are cumming as a result of interacting with someone other than your spouse. Doesn't that sort of go beyond the realm of flirting?

 

[Fallen Angel]

Boy if you are discouraged from what is here, don't I repeat don't turn on the tv or read a newspaper.

My point of this whole topic is doesn't marriage mean exclusive any more?

When exactly did it? Not in the old testament, not in many of the past socities nor in many societies even today. I know the idealogy that this concept comes from and it also believes that once married it should be for life. That the woman should still be a virgin till the wedding night. Strange isn't it how churches, governments, and people pick and choose which little morals and laws they want to follow and then look down on all who don't choose like them.

With most marriages ending up a failure it is sad that we should cast sex as the measuring stick for continuing or ending one. Caring, sharing, trusting, love, and just general compatibility would be much better yardsticks. Patryn if your marriage hangs only on the thin thread of exclusive sex then it is in trouble now.

For better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, love, honor, and obey, forsaking all others till death do us part. My better half is going to try and hold me to this as long as I live even if she has to kill me herself.

I do agree that it is probably best to be exclusive due to disease and the chance of one of you falling in love with another. I know I don't want to risk losing my lover but it isn't from the sex, it is from the chance of her finding someone more interesting. Someone who hasn't heard all her old stories and doesn't have years and years of familiarity to be bored with. Someone who might snore less and bring home flowers more often.

 

[Guest]

This is your husband I was wondering about Patryn.

You got more bullshit stories than a cow patty party.

 

[Rosebud]

read down for further explaination

[Edited by Rosebud on 09-10-2000 at 09:05 PM]

 

[Patryn]

I was married when I posted that. If anyone would have asked, I would have told them that. THAT is also the reason I was gone from the BBS shortly after I got here. I didn't post an "I just got divorced" thread, mainly because I didn't think it was anybody's fucking business at the time because you were all strangers to me, and I was a stranger to you.

Next time you want to know something, just ask instead of accusing me of "bullshitting". I said "I am not married", which is the truth. I am divorced, so therefor I am not married. Now where, exactly did I lie again?

I swear...people are nice to you for how many months, and then a little misunderstanding/discrepency turns up, from a fucking TROLL no less, and I get it with both barrells. Nice. Really sweet.

 

[Guest]

Wow! Completely different stories.

Yous gots some 'splaining to do!

(my favorite part is her preaching about the sanctity of marraige in one and her talking about her online/offline affair with a married man in the other)

 

[Patryn]

I have NO explaining to do. Not to someone who can't use their "real" name. You are pathetic and spineless, whoever you are.

I made mistakes in my marriage, yes. So did my ex-husband. No one is perfect. Our marriage didn't work out. It happens. I posted that as a "hypothetical" to get opinions about some things that were going on with us.

Now go away. From here on in, my personal life will remain VERY personal. I can see now there is not a place for it online, with anyone. I just keep getting burned, don't I?

 

[Rosebud]

cool...I am a troll....and from the experience I have seen of posts here...some people would have done the same thing. Okay all of the points that still don't match are none of my business, and I will leave your thread and not return, but I do disagree that a married couple does not love or belong together just because they want to bring someone else into the relationship. To me it just means that we are more secure in ourselves and each other. And if something happens that he discovers he loves the other person more, then I will be fine with it because I love him enough to want him to be as happy as he can be. Our lives are so short, why not enjoy them to the fullest as long as we are responsible adults. Sorry that I couldn't read your mind and understand all of this before I posted the first time. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, just thought you were being contridictory and I wanted to know what was up...Excuse me, I hate it when my human nature sets in.

 

[Patryn]

No, Rosebud, I didn't call you a troll, unless of course that was your admission to being GUH! or SHUT UP!!! or boobtoad777 or any of the other host of nameless entities we've had here lately.

Points that still don't match, huh? Okay, um...sure. If you all like I'll prepare a form e-mail with the entire story and send it out to those who think my business and my marriage not working out is THEIR business.

 

[CreamyLady]

I'm still working through my fear of commitment, so I can't tell you about marriage, which to me is the ultimate commitment.

I admire people who can go the distance tremendously, and really envy happy couples. There are times when my loneliness swamps me, and then times when I'm so glad I'm alone -- and don't have to share it.

I will finally say that everyone is different, and what works for one couple or individual might be poison to others. One doesn't know, without living what they live.

 

[Patryn]

Thank you, CL, as Rosebud now also seems to think I have a problem with hers, Nicole's and Havoc's arrangement. Hell, they can do whatever the hell they want as long as they don't kill anyone or have sex with children.

When I made my original post, my ex and I were considering an open marriage, which I didn't agree with. I gave it a try, hence the affair, but it didn't work out. It wouldn't have been a problem, had he realized that it was sex with another person, but he was already in love with an old friend he'd recently hooked up with again.

So there ya go. Want anything else? Shoe size? 8 Blood type? A- I guess this where I defend my personal life, huh? And getting words shoved in my mouth REALLY helps.

I can see the questions about my original thread, but I think I've explained that in great enough detail.

 

[Guest]

We both have made it very clear: NO meetings with anyone we've cybered with. We trust each other but don't want to cause an awkward situation with the other person who may expect more from a meeting. We are happily married and happy sexually with each other. Neither of us see any reason to seek sex elsewhere.

Just for anyone who is wondering I am 28, married 4 years, no kids and my husband is 32. I don't think I'm being old fashioned but I think the meaning of marriage has been forgotten.

What a stupid fool I've been. For the last 8 months, I've been trying to get over the worst hurt and betrayal I've ever experienced in my life, and hope to ever experience again.

January: Went to Utah to visit online friend/cyber partner. We had sex, after I made sure he was cool with it...twice.

Hmmmm, lessee....post was made in April...you self-righteously said that the meaning of marriage has been forgotten and that you trust each other and have agreed to no meetings?

Sex with cyber partner occured in January?

I ain't no mathematician, but...

We don't need no fucking form email to see what a fucking hypocrite you are!

Seek professional help like those others were saying.

 

[Rosebud]

wait...I see now that I didn't check the dates of each post. I am the one who quoted the other post that is why I thought you were calling me a troll. I post under my own name, not an alias. One time I did post under a alias on the Brief description of yourself but it was to put a pic of Homer Simpson in, never have I done it to slam a person...Sorry Patryn we just got our wires crossed. but I still believe what I said in my answer about marriage

 

[Patryn]

Like I said...it was a hypothetical. Yes, January you fucking cretin. And the 8 months was from THEN until NOW.

I thought our marriage could remain strong seeing other people. It didn't. So shoot me. Maybe I didn't say it the best.

I'm done with all this bullshit for now. I've explained all I can and think I should HAVE to explain. I'll return when this board regains some sense of decorum.

 

[Guest]

Buh bye.

 

[Cheyenne]

Patryn, please don't go. Today should be a happy day for you - you found someone you are interested in and want to start living again. Don't let misunderstandings with some people and attacks from others ruin it. You don't owe any of us any explanations, you've explained more than enough already.

 

[Patryn]

Oh, great...now this is going to turn into a so called "beg me to stay post". I am still in a good mood, and I'd like to keep it that way. I'm just saying I don't need this shit, and I'll lurk around and return when some FUCKING ORDER DOES.

*straightens clothing and apologizes for outburst*

 

[Cheri]

Patryn, please don't get upset. I confess I was also confused by your recent posts. You talked about the date with the cute guy at school, your depression over the last few months and then you say you're married. Doesn't seem to add up. Perhaps if you hadn't said you had been married 4 years, we all would have assumed you were separated or having difficulties. You questions are astute and most pertinent though.
I tend to also have an old fashioned view of marriage. I think that the sexual energy that both of you generate needs to be focused on your spouse. Now that's not to say I don't want my husband to flirt with others. As a matter of fact I tease him quite mercilously about his infatuations with other women (they pre-existed our relationship). But I know that he is mine and I am his. He knows who I talk to and what I say and vice versa. We may flirt about sex but we both think cybering is a waste of time. Why would I want to talk about sex when there is a talented man here willing to give me real sex? I think we would still be together even if one of us cheated, (though we don't allow ourselves to get in situations where it possible) because the life we've built together is to valuable to just quit like that.
Hope that answers your question

 

[Patryn]

I was married when I posted that. I am divorced now. 4 years is not that long. Got it?